New Dawn

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((((Just have to tell an anecdote that happened to me recently that's kind of related to this but doesn't really have somthing to do with the disscussion.
The team I was in need a tank. I suggested one that I think is a great tank but the team invited another one that the whole team (cept me) said was the best tank they ever teamed with.
Tank comes in and the first thing the tank does is start herding, it's the second thing the tank does too. In fact it's the only thing the tank does. It never stands still, it moves around constantly. As soon as some of it's herd dies, it goes after another mob. Never waiting for us to finish the herd off or telling us when we should attack. Instead the rest of the team had to chased it around, trying to get off attacks when we could.
When the team had wasted about 5 nukes (2 of my own) because the tank moved away with the mob when they went off, I asked the tank if it could stand still so we didn't have to chase it around and waste nukes like we did. Another blaster also said something along those line. The tanks reply was "Don't tell me how to play" (that's practically word for word. Won't forget that reply in a hurry) and then went on herding.
Now the thing I find the most mind boggling about this experince isn't that the tank was bad at what it did nor that the player behind the tank couldn't take suggestions or construktive critisism.
It's the fact that the rest of the team thought the tank was one of the best tanks on the server and with the exception of me and the other blaster probably still does!!!)

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I bet that tank pulls forward, doesnt check mobs too well for a foe worth preparing for and leaves blasters and defenders to tank the mobs hes left behind. There are so many so called "best tanks" on union that its ridiculous. I have never seen anyone i'd give more than a 8/10 to and i dont give myself more than that for the record.

If anyone dies from the tank leaving the herd without the tank saying run or something then the tank is bad and if anyone dies before the tank has consolidated the herd properly and said ready then someone in the team is either bad for herd messing or pulling for the point tank. Herd messing can happen when untaunted foes come to herdpoint and those too close pull the foes through perception or by being ahead of herdpoint or attacking anything whilst foes are still running to herdpoint. How hard is it to stay well back and wait? Well some people really struggle with it.

As said before I like to be sure one mob is done and then do the next mob, on a impatient team that doesnt like to wait for me to finish herding in the past i have left the last 2-3 foes to get a headstart on doing the next mob but that was making me tank against my will and no one can do that now im lvl50. Ive got my levels and i dont have to play her. If i said i will herd to here i dont care who i pass on way to herdpoint i will herd to where i said, those following wont necessarily be taunted as taunt aura is low on duration and its good luck to the idiot that didnt listen.

Peoples preferences will vary on many things but thats why we have global friends and global ignore. I have friends who i dont mind playing with as my scrapper because my scrapper can choose its level of aggro better but as my tank i would kick them because my tank cant so much and relies on a few things for survivability. I may of liked them as their defender but i dont have to like their scrapper. My invuln needs to herd fast and have the enemy snugly around her asap to give her defence, my fire needs them around her to kill them faster in a kill or be killed situation, the ice tank gains endurance and defence and also does damage better over time and the stonetank herds into the mudpots to kill faster and all this for any tank holds aggro away from team.

My brute is pure DM/DA, she needs to herd and hold aggro to survive. She has to almost get killed just to build fury but then she pops the hb back up and whoops the mobs about her dead quick. She needs mobs around her for health, endurance and damage and if they are knocked or taunted away she has limited life expectancy whereas kept covered in foes she does really nicely (a very sick set i love it). She has taunt which could save her from any other brutes auras stealing foes. I havent seen many brutes with taunt but imo its the best thing for making sure you gain and keep fury. By my brute keeping aggro not only does she benefit but the other non brutes benefit, she dont herd 17 though as for a brute i consider 7-9 as fine and so what if people can top that. So even on cov small herds maybe necessary.

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Tank with taunt + Good teamwork is better than Tank + good teamwork

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Never said it wasnt.

But does taunt promote teamwork or does it mitigate bad teamwork?

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When i play Shannon i think some people seem to think they have an excuse to n00b out which really puts me off playing her as i would like the courtesy that these same people grant to other tanks like waiting for me to finish herding and then say ready. As an invuln even more checks for consolidation have to be made.

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Taunt all of a sudden becomes useful even solo as it becomes a tool to force mobs that are outside the AoEs to move into it.

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Yes and even more useful as "any" tanker to get mobs back into other peoples aoes like oil slick, sonic dispersion that may be cast on you, disruption arrow, poison gas arrow, bring foes back in range of lingering radiation, debuff zones are created and foes must be kept in them to add survivability to all in the team. Doesnt matter what AT you are you have to look at everyone in the team and get all of your powers to work together in the best way. A debuff zone may need you to saty in it so that the debuffer remains safe and you taunting foes away from others and into the debuff zone making things safer all around.

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Now my main is a blaster and from my experince as one herding is overrated. Don't get me wrong I'd rather team with a tank that is good at herding than one that isn't but there are seldom any reson for them to actually use that skill.

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My blaster would much rather hit 16 at once than 5 here and 5 there, it kills more sooner and saves on endurance seeing as one attack can hit 16.

As a debuffer i would prefer all mobs in one place so that they all fit withing my debuff zone with no affect on me and maximum effect on all foes.

As my buffer which heals i'd rather only have to worry about the tanker who can take it all with me as support pretty easily.

As my scrapper i dont go all "noob" and show people that i can tank *cough* scrank mobs if their is a tank on the team as i may be making the tanker who would arrive have to tank more than he needs or not on his terms (im too pro for that really:P).

As my tanker i'd prefer to have every foe around me in the debuff zone and for even my own survivability not hitting anyone else as i need them to cut fight duration down quickly and/or support me.

As my controller i would rather control a mob thats already taunt controlled than try to control a mob and miss a couple who promptly face plant me

My kheldians are there to support in what way they may need too.

When you have not just a blaster for a 50 you may see that reasons for herding apply to more than your toon. I have kicked a regen for as much as saying there is no point in herding with a rad on the team. I generally hate regens because they are so self reliant they can be blind to the needs of other types of characters. Imo the best scrappers were all super reflexes before defense scaleability.

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Mobs plural, forget about it. I'm squisy so I rather fight the mobs one at the time instead of a herd of 2-3 mobs or more and risk get overwhelmed.

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So would i, the best herding is one mob at a time and not look to show off, have as said the foes could spawn more foes, or more mobs come out of nowhere for you to handle. The best (in my experience of 3000 + hours of playing this game) tanks dont even bother trying to show off.

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While you don't risk a team wipe when the tanker is good at it you know that you'll get at least 1 faceplant and it's usally the blaster.

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As a blaster all aggro is avoidable by carefully choosing who to attack and when, what can draw aggro to the blaster even if you do carefully make sure the tank has got them taunted for 2 seconds or more is when a tank doesnt establish a renewed taunt then you get aggro.

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From a blasters point of view, a tank is only there to save the squisies by pulling foes off them, it certainly isnt herding.

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No herding is it get foes tightly in a 10ft pbaoe aura soi that taunts that are constantly cast by the aura hit the foes so that you as a blaster can be shooting them without getting any attention. Secondly alot of us tanks on this forum have blasters (in my case every AT upto times 4) and its also from playing these toons we learn more about what a tanker can be doing. I have a 50 blaster too with over 600 hours on that.

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How a tank does that, I as a blaster really don't care. Be it with taunt, punchvoke, or just running into the mob (that last one works perfectly well before a nova) as long as the make the mob attack them and ignore little ole me untill I've gotten my first attack chain off. After that I don't mind if i take a little bit of damage because by then hopefully the mob will have thinned out enough for it not to matter.

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Now if you did care on the presence of a good tanker you could ebe that blaster that helps him to help you through knowing how not to mess the herding process and play in a way that can help him keeop his aggro better even in other team members dont.

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Which leads me back to herding. When a tank herd a couple of mobs then it doesn't matter if I get off my first attack chain unoticed since it won't thin the foes out enough for me to be able to take any secondary damage. In that situation if the tank isn't very good at what they do or happen to exceed the aggro cap of 17 well then my blaster is a goner.

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It is impossible for a tanker to exceed 17 its impossible. Only if someone else is near the tanker whilst he is gaining the 17 can you possibly get more than that for the team to deal with. As said some creatures spawn more creatures and so gaining 17 of these can turn into mob which means the tanker is being a planker.

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(There is another minor reason, why I as a blaster dislike herding. Simply because a herding tank seems to have to move around. That means that my nova and target for my AOEs will often be drawn out of the ideal position. That is in the dead center of the mob.)

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Your meant to wait for the tankers herding to stop its best especially with invulns to atleast let them say ready before you attack.

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Lastly, a comment on tanks being redundant in teams. As a blaster I rather have a tank in my team than a healer. A healer can heal any damage I take but I rather not take any damage in the first place and that's the tanks job.

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Some teams play as though the tanker may as well not of been there as happened today on a tf that Gun-Nut tanked. I dont know how Gun-nut put up with it but i would of gone nuts. Its a very nicely built tank.

I think the DEVs realise theyve missed this one on the nerfbat list but arent going to do a thing about it, against some landslide pvp situations it does balance things abit but also through losing dps when you really needed it may do worse for you. Add to that its interruptable with fast DoT powers. If you want balance then balance your toon and drop aid self and set an example.

Taunt, last given aura taunt pulse and gauntlet can help to cover the rage drop duration and keep foes on you. However the higher the levels of the enemies the lower the taunt durations would probably be (but i am convinced). If you took a lvl 53 boss like i did today to test this and just stood next to him using a aura for ages and then had blasters start attacking before rage crash to see of they get any aggro (and they didnt) but once the rage crash took effect the boss immediately did go for one. Both blasters were just using their weakest attacks only.

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Taunt is a great power. No questions. Auto hit 5 mobs, 4 second recharge, zero end cost, good duration.

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I am pretty damn sure taunt unhastened without recharges is 10 second recharge. Taunt imo adds survivability to the team and the tank but some people wouldnt leave out punch for it:P

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Is it me or did someone just **** in here?

i say that cos all your how to get by without taunt so far offers no one any potentially nigh on guaranteed safety and i like potentially nigh on guaranteed safety.

[/ QUOTE ]So, you say my playstyle is not safe, without ever seeing me play?

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im saying ambushes, unexpected aggro, limitations to what your tanker can take and do plus game mechanics apply to everyone plus despite having not seen ya play i have been warned:P. Kidding aside i do believe that this game can be done with as little recoveries, quicksaves needed etc but reality doesnt always work that way with different maps, different teams, different enemies and different missions can throw things at a tanker that no amount self belief in your tanker no taunter can as easily readily deal with, im not saying that just because you have taunt it will make you a better tanker, but it will offer more tanking skill ability and taunt control. You would have to show me how you defy game mechanics to make me think otherwise taking into account all i have just mentioned.

I truly believe that certain types of characters in the team or a mix of characters that can negate the need for taunt or even so far as a tank for that matter but i would have to say overall a tanker has to have a proper answer for as close to any mix of team mates as possible. Your ranged temp powers that you say would save someone from an instant hit to 2 hit can miss and i wouldnt even recommend my hurl as a taunt replacement and thats even if it had a extremely short action time. I mean what is your ranged temp power assault rifle bean bag? taser from being technology? One person who is a multihitter of high damage could be gunning down the 16 +lvl 4s around you your taunt effects suddenly go from 15 - 10 and in that moment 5 foes cream him. Now i know other ATs in the team can do something about that, but aiming for complete taunt control is the tankers job.

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Against Tsoo a Storm defender with blasters walking along inside the hurricane made the mission easy if not downright boring. A tanker in that group would have been downright "in the way"

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Stick fortitude on a storm defender and just watch them go! alongside other defender sets (could be a controllers defensive side) you can pretty much pass on needing a tank for alot of things.

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Bear in mind only slots ive put in dwarf are 4 in the form (3 for dam resist and one for endurance enhancement)

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end mods are slightly better better return i think

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I had No real taunt area other than "dwarf flare" and only antagonize as a "taunt" (and me going back to human for a quick heal, got held before i could return to dwarf to prevent the casualty)

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a hold duration could be upon you whilst in dwarf form and its not until you come out of it takes effect.

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The lesson of this is that Teamwork + Tactics is just as good as Taunting Tanker.

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Teamwork + tactics apply even with a taunting tanker. A taunting tanker is no excuse for people to completely n00b out as there is only so much than can be coped with in so much time.

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And then I read these threads about how the perfect tank takes taunt for maximum aggro control.

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Well yeah.

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Whats next? "must" the perfect tank also take Tough to cap his S/L resistance,

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its about taunt control, build wise you can get by with enough support even if you skipped all your passives and in some cases only took the passives, "some" people who concentrate on being as tough as possible either arent always working as effectively as possible in combo with the team or the team isnt with them and feel they need to. A team could offer me much more support and cooperation than another made up of the same ATs and powersets.

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We havent got to the best part yet, my favorite is when people are advised to take punch instead of kick because the Animation time between is so much longer for Kick so it decreases the DPS..

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Kick is higher damage than boxing but actually lower dps, but only really preferable if your carrying an axe or something to eliminate drawtimes or like the concept.

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The irony of it all is that no matter how expertly you have your taunt aura, taunt, provoke and even if you slot your attacks with taunt enhancers.. you can still only get 17.

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All toons afaik have an aggro cap of 17. If there is a mob of 34 a tanker can go in and effectively gain and hold the aggro of just 17. Any team member could run in and get the other untaunted 17 meaning the rest of the team if dumb enough to try and help out would have 34 to deal with. So obviously the ideal thing would be wait for the tank to bring his 17 out.
Once the 17 is out if he had no taunt and didnt attack all the aggro will come away from him when the team attacks. If he had an aura then 10 will stay (providing there is enough duration between taunt pulses., The slight gap for a foe to leave is one of the reasons of how people can turn around and say they have pulled from a tanker). Now if you have 10 taunted in your aura your gauntlet could be affecting 5 of those 10, allowing 7 that could go off in different directions (possibly to a debuffer who would of had to of lived to provide enough debuffs for the tank/team to survive). As an icetank i dont think the actual taunt duration is any better than anyother but the debuff is good and debuffs as any debuffer knows wins aggro. The ice primary offers the least need for taunt, certain secondary sets do in their own way (if they connect) but usually with any tank once a villain is no longer in your aura (for upto 2 seconds tops i reckon) and ungauntleted and untaunted they are looking for anybody.

Also as my debuffer by a tank leaving my debuff zone to get to a foe 20 feet away to save that mate (when its probably too late) would do so at the expense of the herd becoming unherded with aggro drifting in different directions, then having more people get hit (most likely my debuffer would be down in no time or the blaster would have 5 foes shoot him (as no one said the villains had to run to him). Some foes kill people in 2 hits.

As an icetanker you may go upto +3 battle maiden and hit her (Wham!). One hit, lights out with other people to follow or at the sametime when you could of taunted her from afar and make her pullout her crossbow which she then tickles you with. Now some tanks may say we need a rad or a dark or a rad, a kin and a dark but i personally would like to say any, should be ok with just one if everybody is all for a bit of teamwork. Although i would say how i'd of gave a +2 psionic AV a go with just a sonic defender still eludes me.

"My tanker doesnt have taunt it doesnt fit in with my concept" - good reason to not take taunt. Just let people know so they can play differently (normally in a less dot way as they need to judge for themselves whats safe to hit).

"i can get by without taunt with the teams i am in" - fair enough

"taunt is a waste of a power pick till..." - this comment misses out its reasons for being stated and thats my general problem plus any rubbish and less guaranteeable alternatives for taunt for certain situations put forward.

"i can keep 17 with just aura and gauntlet all of the time" - game mechanically defying without outside help of a must haves in team. Either that or your solo.

Is it me or did someone just **** in here?

i say that cos all your how to get by without taunt so far offers no one any potentially nigh on guaranteed safety and i like potentially nigh on guaranteed safety.

Take into account some fights are kill or be killed so you need good damage and accuracy and endurance. Also your aoes maybe (most likely are) pretty long recharge so a recharge maybe nice to use it more and gauntlet more often and do more damage. With the resistance required in the rest of the build it doesnt leave alot of slots left. But imo gauntlet is poo anyway. You can miss, hit those your aura is already effecting and its of very short effect compared to the aura and taunt. I used to have a taunt in every attack but i cant see for the life of me the need now with a fast recharging decent duration taunt and an aura. The aoe attack is of high endurance so the taunt SO should have a good effect. If the attack is used whilst herding then as you get to your herdpoint a triggerhappy blaster could be less likely to mess your herding (but only for a controller to do it instead).

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how you have aid other to help heal them is pointless if you can't pull those odd few mobs off the blaster who's nowhere the bulk of the enemy

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Ooooooooooooohhhhh, this is soooooo QFE.

*Tanker heals you for 187.5 points*
Me (as Rad Defender): "Eh? Why are you healing me?"
Tanker: "Because that guy is attacking you."
Me: "OK, but I'm a Rad Defender, I can heal my self. What I can't do is take several hundred bullets to the gut. Guess what? That's your job! So, here's a new plan: DO YOUR OWN [censored] JOB AND GET HIM OFF ME!!! "

/em bursts blood vessel, and rightly so

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OMG i love that!!!

On topic i have duo'd as a blaster with a tanker and seen other duo's of blasters with tankers and in all cases taunt has been necessary. As my blaster i could safe in the knowledge that most definately all aggroed will be consolidated unleash everything i had on the herd (being assault rifle your more planted due to action times so need it more).

Taunt aura holds 10 so after the tanker has herded 17 (a blaster can hit upto 16 at once so thats good xp/time), 7 can quickly come for you, the higher the level you face the less chance of a blasters survival if you have to run to the blaster and possibly miss with a non autohit gauntlet. If the blaster dies the damage stops and it could mean a run for it from you or die too (poor blaster me thinks). Surprises do happen, unexpected waves of mobs, patrols, a blaster moving to prime multihit position may accidentally infringe perception range of another group. A tankers job is to on choosing a herdpoint offer the position up without chance of a nearby group as best possible. Many tankers dont and this is where trick archery's flash arrow can come in handy (a mere example of how a member of the team can make up for a tankers lackings which is nothing compared to where its get awayable to be up close to an AV as a tank and subject the rest of the team to the AVs cones, aoes and pbaoes when you have the AV -dam debuffed especially and - acc debuffed but not when you have one empath for example who cant offer everyone fortitude at the same time, doesnt have regeneration aura permable and cant heal everyone huge amounts at the same time, nothing to debuff the AV with so when half the team are wiped the empath often due to inexperience would be trying to resurrect players or heal other people other than the tanker whose healthbar is taking a downward trend, kiting can make it so only the tanker gets hit and not by much either usually and an empath doesnt have to panic thinking they have to try and be everywhere at once).

If i chose /axe i wouldnt be invuln and if i made an invuln/axe i wouldnt choose energy epic, itll be probably fire and ice for the hold and psossibly changed to stone epic later and its just to have powers that give useful secondary effects that can be handy to have that /axe doesnt offer. You will do well to modify ya build to the advice already offered i think.

For inv/axe/energy as a final respec build id go this despite personally hating it but its more slotting advice as opposed to when to take powers.

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name: invaxe
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Battle Axe
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01) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(3) EndRdx(37)
01) --> Gash==> Acc(1) EndRdx(11)
02) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(2) Rechg(5) Rechg(5) Heal(7) Heal(7) Heal(15)
04) --> Taunt==> Rechg(4) Rechg(15) Taunt(21) Taunt(34)
06) --> Resist Physical Damage==> DmgRes(6) DmgRes(17) DmgRes(17)
08) --> Unyielding==> DmgRes(8) DmgRes(9) DmgRes(9) EndRdx(40)
10) --> Beheader==> Acc(10) EndRdx(11) Dmg(27) Dmg(27) Dmg(34)
12) --> Hasten==> Rechg(12) Rechg(13) Rechg(13)
14) --> Super Speed==> EndRdx(14)
16) --> Hurdle==> Jump(16)
18) --> Invincibility==> DefBuf(18) DefBuf(19) DefBuf(19) Taunt(21)
20) --> Health==> Heal(20) Heal(40) Heal(43)
22) --> Stamina==> EndMod(22) EndMod(23) EndMod(23)
24) --> Resist Energies==> DmgRes(24) DmgRes(25) DmgRes(25)
26) --> Tough Hide==> DefBuf(26) DefBuf(46) DefBuf(48)
28) --> Whirling Axe==> Acc(28) EndRdx(29) Rechg(29) Dmg(31) Dmg(33) Dmg(34)
30) --> Resist Elements==> DmgRes(30) DmgRes(31) DmgRes(31)
32) --> Unstoppable==> Rechg(32) Rechg(33) Rechg(33) DmgRes(50)
35) --> Cleave==> Acc(35) EndRdx(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Dmg(37) Rechg(37)
38) --> Swoop==> Acc(38) EndRdx(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(39) Dmg(40)
41) --> Pendulum==> Acc(41) EndRdx(42) Dmg(42) Dmg(42) Dmg(43) Rechg(43)
44) --> Focused Accuracy==> EndRdx(44) EndRdx(45) EndRdx(45) TH_Buf(45) TH_Buf(46) TH_Buf(46)
47) --> Conserve Power==> Rechg(47) Rechg(48) Rechg(48)
49) --> Build Up==> Rechg(49) Rechg(50) Rechg(50)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------

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(and tactical retreats)

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When bad pulls are made or you find yourself in over your head its a lot better to back off and return rather than all die but because some heroes are completely thick and dont know when to fallback and sooner lay around wondering whose got an awaken or enjoy a nice scenic trip from the hospital all well within the time which the mission could of been done or with certainly less debt to work off its hard to get people to back off before you.

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Nowt wrong with punchvoke indeed. But I can happily swallow 100% aggro with Chilling Embrace and taunt and never need punchvoke.


[/ QUOTE ]Or you can get away with chilling embrace and punchvoke and never be able to grab aggro at range or kite AV's.

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Edited for Accuracy.

[/ QUOTE ]Even if I will take taunt, you will NOT see me kiting AV's, it's just silly. Also, fire epic quite easily allows taking aggro at range.

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Your not prepared to offer a chance to make all situations a situation so that only your tanker is on the line.

Depending on type, level of AV and defence sets in team (cos even level or +1-2 lvl is often with certain sets in team is just a "what ya need a tank for situation?) I'd team with you with caution (not that i would ever) AND i think some of the other experienced tankers would agree too. Alot of people in knowing your tank doesnt taunt would play a little more defensively whilst some want debt badges anyway or couldnt care less.

Fast action time secondaries with good secondary effects ie energy is probably the type of secondary that can get away without taunt in general unless you need to taunt a flier and cant get to it and have no outside powerpool picks that can help.

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If yoyu consider Gauntlet as "Punchvoke"... i.e I hit things to make them hit me, its kinda sucky but helps.

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I think of it as this.

It is good because unlike the Taunt Auras, you control the timing of it.

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Yeah as an invuln secondary aoe powers helps to establish a taunt duration before an invincible taunt pulse if needed so that you can immediately establish a these are taunted situation then use taunt on the ones your aoe didnt effect on a run in.

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I know certain AVs seem to have ways of resisting or have higher resistance to taunt.

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Then there is Diabolique, who always seems to go phase-shifted the very moment you to hit Taunt...

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That or she buggers off and then you need taunt durations so that she is sure to remember you. She and of the top of my head Siege are the 2 AVs i like to have -fly powers for sure. With the mission Defeat all villains in cavern peregrine island with infernal and diabolique in, it pays to turn right (as you come in from door) do the rest of the map and then get to diabolique so she wont keep leading you to more and more mobs cos there arent any.

With a +4 AV you can actually keep them permanently interested with enough duration and stacking. I know certain AVs seem to have ways of resisting (Nemesis, Mako can placate) or have higher resistance to taunt. With a +4 you may have to wait for your second taunt to take effect on light slotting (my scrappers been in there taunting the RV AVs) to gain attention or even 3rd taunt but the more you use it the better it seems to get.

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L40 tank so far, no taunt, nothing really caused aggro trouble apart for the bloody AV's, who are now impossible to keep aggroed without it... :/

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You didnt do mary macomber ten times then? or perhaps not dr vahzilock? or perhaps any other av of good high level versus you in the tfs and trials pre 40 i take it? i personally couldnt of done countess crey without it, she can be murder up close but easily kited thankfully.

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As soon as humanely possible.

And if you are an invun tank, take it at 10 or you wont be worth much to a team.

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How come that applies just for invun tanks?

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Cos ya not worth much till 18 without it:P

I find the walls of DE monsters between rocks quite curious with level 42 DE underneath them, i mean whats the point in those lvl 42's with about 12 level 50 Giant Monsters standing over them? Nowhere else in the zone has lvl 42's.

As for the rest of the map i have personally cleaned it as in looked for doors etc in the woods everywhere. I have also been on the map with no hami there only to fall asleep by the time of whenever he spawns.

Maurdecay is right that teams playing with different tankers deserve a different playstyle with different expectations as does teaming with different defenders,controllers, blasters and meh maybe scrappers:P. Even secondaries, powerpools and epics make variances of playstyle on different ATs. These differences of playstyles will mean the difference of making even a granite stonetank (with good slotting and powerchoice) as safe as having an icetank. However with firetanks it depends on enemy and buffs more than anyother.
When it comes to aggro consolidation we have these needs:

Firetanks could do with tohit buffs (versus some types of enemy).

Stonetanks could do with speedboosts (but not necessarily versus any enemy at all but perhaps say enemies that tp could be more of a pain to keep taunted).

invulns need more time to establish just who exactly isnt taunted more as there is no sign from invincible before people attack.

ice well has no prob.

thats got to be the funniest and cutest avater ive ever seen tryin!

I have an ice/ice thats currently without glacial armour, i will get it, when i am somewhat desperate for it i guess, but the icepatch sure does take alot of damage away on its own. Once i am 28 i think ill take it as it could be a good time, highest level of moonfire so yep could be. I also know i'll need it later but i'm going to want other powers asap later too.

After meeting Master Zaprobo on test and checking out bodyguard mode plus bubbles i have to say i was most impressed and i consider taunt quite a good idea pvp/pve however i may leave it till RV time.

My worst eperiences with firetanks have existed when i couldnt due to hurricane's -acc with tsoo keep all the attention, if defenders have only one person to worry about really (ie the tank) and not themselves and not other peoples survivability is made alot easier. One time i was like good atleast we have a controller/emp and then i soon found out they only have 3 slotted heal aura and the next emp power was ressurrect and nothing else after that.

As Jaqi i had Mr Cuddles as a tank and all the missions were routinely done people waited behind the herdpoint, they waited for his herding to finish, for him to consolidate aggro and then for him to say ready before they attacked and i pretty much only had to heal him which is a lot better than having to heal him, heal someone down the corridor or be required to heal several people at once who arent even going to be able to be captured in one weak heal aura. This is why i'd like blazing aura buffed for accuracy or extra tohit to enable more survivability for the team by making the firetank better at holding aggro and being the only one requiring undivided attention really or atleast maximum mobs held together for debuffage at no risk to the debuffer.

I am in the minor case of 3 then, dont care what mobs i face, 8 man team it as much as possible but try to get the best level of teamwork out of everyone as much as possible. Yesterday as my trick archer, there was double xp and i was in a high level team whose dynamics just wasnt making my trick archer very useful. If i had tried to be my debuffs would of got me aggro i'm not sure i'd of had anyone to save me, i just left after the mission, the dynamics wasnt there for me and no amount of xp would of made me stay.
When i tank i expect alot from people and try to get the most out of them. Playing in a way that doesnt try to achieve the maximum potential that can be achieved from everybodies powers at once is just wrong to me. Everything that everyone of any AT can do matters and if it all stacks at one point it can mean alot of mobs downed fast and reasonably safe.