New Dawn

Necromancer spotted!

That's not what I am suggesting at all. Comment on the game by all means. We are not qualified to talk about the developers and the reason why I replied to it was and I'll bring up the paragraph for context:

That's the whole paragraph. The last sentence seemed out of place to me but now you've clarified things. My comment comes from me as a players perspective not as something meant to hold water with any kind of design. So when I saw that last line or two lines, its out of context and so why bring that up? Now I know you're intentions weren't what I might of thought.

Stuff like this about Arbiter Hawk for one I thought was harsh, as its what you said:

It's a bit harsh I thought.

Say that to someone and they may just think "Ya know what? I was gonna do it, but now I won't". (Minus the swearwords).( Edit: Maybe not in the US, I dunno.)

PvPers for a long time expressed their opinion in a barely constructive manner at all. I don't believe for a second that those PvPers got what they wanted.

I am not here to try and fall out with anyone when I say these things. I am just trying not to have to witness further. Am not gonna say no to buffs.

I hope they do WS and PB equally cos they are ballpark equal now.

Who here is qualified to decide that a developer etc is doing that?

No one.

Did someone say they were best qualified?

Whoever that was thinks alot of themselves without truly knowing.

For every viewpoint there is a counter argument, whether or not you see them is another thing. Some people I feel will only carry on only hearing themselves anyway.

I am just saying that the pros and cons of an entire set should be looked at. I could go on excel and work out the maximum level of damage mitigation each of my Defenders put out, but then I would think to myself, "well whats the most sensible way of playing with them?". Tankers can aid survivability but if you are a simple blaster up a Tankers butt then you are bound to get aoe'd sometime. Defenders don't have to be there allowing anyone to take up any possible position. Some of my defenders would be silly thinking they could just stand anywhere. Then defenders don't have to allow you to do anything at any time. So there is a way to team with them and a way not to. Taking how to team with them into account, buffs that aren't good enough for us to do what we like might be overkill when we play around the set properly.

Each defender will have a niche, an empath can only res one person at a time where as Miasma can do the whole team but needs a target to do so. Balancing the resses directly just can't be done although most people might prefer if Empathy had something that ressed the whole team without a target.

I am glad you mentioned lower levels because I agree TA comes home late nearer OS.

Conceptually:

Glue Arrow lowers DPS but being a slow it can also have an effect on acceleration.

Force (effect is Damage) = Mass*Acceleration

So why can't it through affecting acceleration cause -Dam? There could be -Dam for the first few secs, combined with the -rechg, then perhaps just be -rechg for the remainder (perhaps entangling could too).

Poison Gas Arrow does -Dam and a sleep, but why don't it look like a poison? At the end of its duration there could be some puking going on for a few secs. So even though some mobs got woken they're having to chunder when or as the effect wears off. Last part of the duration comes a hold.

That's conceptual to me and some buffing without comparing anything. It would perhaps help a bit in the lower levels and be a bit further away from seeming just functional. Those powers would also be different to everything else otomh. I don't throw figures because thats the Devs job.

But I'd suspect the testing would of said the set was alright to begin with.

Actually no and I don't believe that there is evidence of that. I do over exaggerate in saying something like I wouldn't want to see TA turned into Dark Miasma. It's a worst case thing.

I realise that this is a thread Necro but I thought I'd come and haz look at a Blaster and see where they're going with it and then see if I can try and keep it in its direction but with some other suggestion. Bigfeeler came to Tanker section recently so I picked on his build. Practically soft cap to S/L/E.

Lots of ideas I don't see happening as they lead me to wonder just how many more stabilizers does a tricycle need but got to trust in a Dev to make the right decisions.

Is a quieter life sticking to the OP and not taking up any arguments elsewhere.

I see some people here I think I'd get along with and people here I probably won't.

I am not really saying that you have done anything wrong but I would of probably favoured getting to or closer to softcap. Even less hits the better.

I've kept all your power choices there because concepts maybe set in stone and just moved things around substituting for +def.

Your accuracy is helped in part from tactics and your damage is helped in part from damage bonuses. Your end rec versus end drain should be good enough. Your regen the same or more. Careful with settings.

I don't believe that there is a power that the majority are skipping consistantly. There is what you might skip because you don't see the usefulness but there is no reassurance that the majority are skipping it too.


Whatever is annoying (end consumption) you can build to mitigate it, if its counterproductive on someone else then don't use it on them, if its situational on one AT you then have to check how situational it will be on another AT. The Devs don't always tailor make things for each AT. Sonic Repulsion on a ranged pet can be of value and now the set is ported to Masterminds, I would guess the Devs will wait and see if its popular among Masterminds. If so then I'd guess it will stay.


Rads don't always get to perform as well as TAs at times, the anchor is the first thing to get defeated. It's not the fault of the Devs when people cause underperformance. The forum is not an only source of peoples views either someone ingame, could decide that TA is useless. People actively seek out sets that are "said" to be weak. We will all build differently, play differently, team with different people and I know you could come down to comparing total debuffs versus total debuffs of other sets but then again other sets may not have Oil Slick or EMP Arrow. Other sets are reliant on an anchor etc, etc. In theory TA to the Devs may not need to be underperforming at all but in reality, players of TA may not be debuffing in good order or hard controlling key targets in good time. Each defender set offers something different and overall can't quite be compared directly. The way I expect to tank for a TA versus something may not be the same way I can expect to tank that same thing for another defender and I think it's important to have the best dynamic for whatever defender is in play.


For many other defender sets there is the reactionary element, you can't just buff and run as you could with a forcefielder. Forcefielder is almost a fire and forget set with most people probably and sensibly so, taking the power build up. Ofc there are alot of powers skipped that could be used in a reactive light but more likely those ones are a bit more ranger friendly. I find after buffing people I have a few minutes of not really concerning myself with them. I can spend more time lost in my attack chains. Not so on another defender where I am proactively doing more to mitigate damage spawn to spawn and then maybe get an attack or two out.


I do think the days of "Healer" and TA thread crossovers is behind us. Problem though is every individual TA power underperforms compared to what is average for other support sets, and it takes twice as many TA powers to get the same effect of one power does in other sets. With only 9 powers to pick from that is a very heavy flaw that can't be ignored, and TA really doesn't have enough synergy amongst it's powers to overcome this.

What I have done is pull up my TA/A build and pull up my Dark/Dark build.
In 3,3s:

I put out -30% res with Tar patch and I otomh can't add any more res debuff procs to anything within the primary not that it should matter.

With TA I put out -40% res and can stack another -40% progressively later and then have 2 powers within the set that can have a res debuff proc not that it matters.

I am not saying all is equal, other effects count, the grand total of what each set can do versus an AV and its spawn or just a normal spawn matters, one set may win versus an AV and its spawn whereas another may be better versus a normal spawn.

In PVE there are different outcomes one set maybe better versus ambushers, one set maybe better at preventing a nearby group doing a perception check on a team that really doesn't know when to pull or where to stop.

Because I believe in playing around different defenders differently my main worry is somebody trying to make it easy for me to play around different defenders the same way.

Cast times, debuffs over time, effect per end, aoe size, anchor versus no anchor taking into account AI, xp/time, potential, subject, player behaviour. There is more than just doing power to power but I don't disbelieve that there can't be a buff of some kind, dropping that 15s of -end recovery after EMP would be a buff in my mind. Thats 15s of not losing endurance. It probably effects non defenders more though.

The testers must test and compare defenders. It can't be that hard to sit there with a stop clock as well as compare team survivability potential especially when they should know how to go about things and exactly whats meant to happen.

I play all defender sets and look for surviving by different means with them, I'll admit thats my main concern along with fun.

Firetank with Taunt has greater potential than a Firetank without in the tanking role.

Then replace the Firetank with anything else.

So you get:

Icetank with Taunt has greater potential than a Icetank without in the tanking role.

and keep going...

I'd like to see otherwise.

I can see exactly what you are saying right up until the last paragraph so I thought I just quote that part, it's alright in terms of getting things done providing you have adequate support. Tauntless Tankers, lets say its an Mo, are going to be more fine with relying on any of just one form of defenders or corrupter etc than others. I think that with Taunt on any type of Tanker you have the potential to be fine with anything, or infact get rid of whats most commonly considered "support" altogether. No AT is needed and we could not need any "support" toons at all in team. I quote "support" because I am referring to anything most people would consider support where as I would consider everything as potential support.

I know some of the most competent players run a tauntless Tanker yet still I know they're not immortal. They are subject to game mechanics and without taunt are subject to them all the more. Alot of people will of been successful so far with tauntless Tankers but they need to consider just what they can tank and who for. Tank every AV for any team make up. Tank all the mobs. I like to strip myself of luxuries that some people won't even start an STF without.

As a Tauntless Tank do you need someone stacking several CMs, Thaws or Clarities when you do Ghost Widow for a low damaging team? Do you rely on alot of Def buffs? Do you get Soul Stormed and not die because of a Res Shield? If you are Black Holed by Ghost Widow or Feared by Jack, or Placated by Mako were you always losing aggro? If your answer is yes then you are not being the most competent Tanker. If your answer along the lines of "well I can do on my <insert tank type here>" but not on my others then again you are not being the most competent Tanker. Not everyone needs a Tanker to cover all these bases at all times so again a Tanker with Taunt is not needed.

No MM or Illusion Controller can compare with the most competent Tanker either. We do have to look at the full umbrella of the Tanker role. So many other ATs can do an alternative job instead for most people that maybe a Brute or Scrapper would be better anyway.

I meant the life and death of the character.

Ok this part is sort of the answer. It's a case of hoping it had been done already.

I don't see the life and death in it all myself.

The most competent Tanker can only be one primary and one secondary at a time. People can have ideas on the best primary and the best secondary pairing and I will have ideas on where I can see them, what they could be up against and a team make up dying as a result of them not having taunt. The most competent being the one who has a glass half full versus something considered incredibly difficult despite being in a team of what arguably looks like pity spot takers.

However as you say there are options that can be within the control of a player or players which makes taunt not a needed power. Therefore I am not arguing that everyone should have it, I am just of the opinion that the most competent wouldn't be without it yet even so, just because you have taunt and just because you know when and where to use it, it doesn't mean that all players will allow themselves to benefit from your use of it either.

Call me stupid by all means but I am at a loss as to why this is so, so, important. I went and looked at the PB and thought "okay" no real life and death circumstances and did the same with the WS.

How is it this troubles you so?