Narcissus

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So...why just S/L damage?

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Exactly.

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My appologies, if this is the case. I have not seen anything saying they would be patching to correct this issue.


Taken from a dev post:
"<[CS]Zeb> To get the benefits of the new features in CoV, CoH players will need a copy of CoV. You don't need to play a villain, just have a copy of the sequel.
<[CS]Zeb> Doing that will give you access to the PvP zones we're introducing and the base building features. Other minor features will be added later that expand both"

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so....I don't have to deal with PVP if I don't get CoV? SCORE! NCsoft just lost my 50 bux!

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You also don't have to deal with PvP if you DO get CoV. What's your point?

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Not to mention the bit you quoted said nothing about it being promised.. and they were 100% we were told bases would be coming and all these other great features would show up.. it was left ambigious back then b/c you had no clue or no intention of releasing what was going to be in CoV b/c it was far to early to.


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Got links/articles/dialogs/screenies to prove that?

I've been a forumwhore here for a very LONG time and never once heard anyone mention that bases were A) a definite or B) Would be a free CoH feature if they were. No one believes these things except those voices in your head.

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CoH has spoiled us a little by giving us so many free updates. However, it is still reasonable for them to make something and put it up for sale.

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So true.

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I watched it this weekend... leave it to Naruto and Fuzzy Eyebrows to steal the show for the first segment

Anyone else catch how it seems like Tsunade has had about enough of Naruto's attitude though?

And where is Jiraiya?!

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Hehe I agree on all points.

Can't say too much since I am still recovering from my chronic JawDrop over N and S's big fight a short while back. I have never seen a fight scene that good EVAR!

-Time for my meds now /e sleep

Thanks for a great game.

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I guess the best judge of the relative usefulness of Detention Field vs Dimension Shift would be a Grav/FF Controller. Which power would a Grav/FF rather have?


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Detention Field all the way.

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You know... now that i think about... I might've just jumped at the opportunity to brag a little. I do believe Gravity as a whole has an AoE control gap, but I'm often oblivious to it because of my secondary (which, btw, I chose for concept 10 months ago. I knew nothing of any 'control' issues back then). My only point I have, i suppose, is that Gravity can do wonderous things... but it needs outside support to do it. Unlike some of the other Primaries that could almost ignore thier secondaries to pull off what we do solo-wise.

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Bingo.

Personally I always loved wormhole. And always stood up in defense of it (long before 3 months ago). At the time however the majority of players were divided on it pretty much 50/50.

Those that were against it were mostly against the duration being so short, the knockback, and the activation (like most of our other skills) being so long.

Final Flash, you echo my sentiments completely.

PMM: She was saying they run around uncontrolled and attack the group when they become unshifted- which they do. It's just the duality of the wording she used.

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You can be standing at the apex of a corner and see both halls. Once the group is Wormholed down one hall, CF them during the 5 to 10 seconds they are disoriented.

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And 5 seconds later? You end up with a group of rooted mobs that want to tear you to shreds. 5 seconds later The only thing accomplished was being able to aoe root the mobs without taking the alpha strike.

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One way I see how the test version of Wormhole could possibly enhance our controlling abilities is by using the environment: Wormhole a group around a corner then hit them with CF. They are immobalized and can't attack.

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Unless you have line of sight it won't work. You won't be able to cast crushing field on them. Also the disorient effect will only last as others posts 5-10ish seconds. When it does wear off guess who they are going to focus all of their aggro on.

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And I think that the gravity set as a whole, while slightly behind before, is definitely catching up and gaining ground in issue 4. Is it there yet? Maybe not. But it is at least moving in the right direction.

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They make a precision skill aoe (reducing at least in my opion its tactical uses) and we are "moving in the right direction"? Heck, Dimension Shift a skill you so strongly defend had its recharge increased and its duration decreased and that's "gaining ground"?

At best that's one step forward, one step back.

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But, to repeat the main point, please give us back a single target wormhole.

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Adding my voice to the chorus. I like Wormhole as it is now, for reasons already well elaborated in this thread. If an AOE disorient needs to be added to the set add it to something else.

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I agree. For a small second I was enthused by the "fun factor" of the new wormhole until I found the applications are far more limited than in its current form.

Please return wormhole to it's previous form. (and perhaps move it into DS's spot.

I had completely disregarded this thread as it was dead earlier. Nice to see it pick back up when made official.

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As for Gravity's viability as a powerset, you seem to have done okay with it up to level 50.

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Please don't assume to know me, my playstyle or my experiences. After about a year into release I would hope that my main/primary would eventually make it to the level cap. But the main reason why I faired so well (1st lvl 40 Grav controller across servers/1st 40 Controller on Virtue/2nd 50 Controller on Virtue) is because of my Force Field secondary. Then again I am not the only one who has to rely so heavily on my secondary. But then again every gravity controller has FF as a secondary right?

While everyone else was having wet dreams clamoring to grab Empaths to do average encounters. At the same time the few of us that realized the power of FFs were stomping mobs 4+ that (and I have a really good SG).

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I don't feel that I need secondary effects on my powers.

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Funny, because obviously the developers do. Which is why we have Knockback Immunity on our primary holds/roots when 4 out of our 9 powers offer knockback. Such an implementation is ludacris as is anyone defending such things. But by all means lets remove the -recharge, -movement spd and add +recharge +movement speed to Ice Controllers holds/roots. I am sure they will enjoy it.

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I don't feel like I have a control gap either. Probably just a difference in play style.


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You are in the minority here. A VERY VERY small minority as evidenced from the 129+ page thread entitled "Gravity: A Serious Discussion"

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Gravity STILL gets a Pet that is a crutch to make up for the control gap while other controlers get pets that add damage to their already superior control.



[/ QUOTE ] What kind of Singularities are you using? Mine were virtually indestructable, and are in the process of getting a boost to their damage reduction. Sure, other pets do more damage. Other pets die when archvillains hit them, too. Mine don't.


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What pet am I using? The exact same pets that I said are crutches (which they are). The exact same pet that were added AFTER the Beta community and the post release Gravity Controller community made a rather vocal issue even then about the few control options we had.

Sings are indestructable because they were added as a way (a rather poor one) to give gravity more control. If they are dead, we lose that control. It only follows to make them as resilient as possible. How many controller types have there only other means of control demolished when their pets die?

As for the AV. What are your pets doing to that AV when his purple triangle is up? Definately not holding him- only contributing damage. As for when his defenses are down? I can do that myself with two holds.

Drive through.

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How big is the area of Wormhole?

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Same size as GDF.

I don't see how this closes the control gap at all. Processmeatman and the rest of us have posted numerous times on this power and our testings.

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It's duration might not be spectacular, but that's why you slot things

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PMM and others, found the duration to be 10ish seconds with 1 accuracy and FIVE!!! Disorient Enhancers.

Still a fun power, but in no way does it even remotely touch our control gap issues.

As for being the best Single target mag builder in the game: What glory is there to that? The only things that even needs that much magnitude stacking are Monsters and AVs that compose what percentage of all CoH encounters? Subpar in about 99.99% of all CoH fights, but we are above average in that 0.01% Yay...

<edit>Still grouchy from lack of sleep and Arena server not being up. Removed portions that sounded rude/harsh.

That's the problem. We are no more viable than we were before.

Gravity STILL suffers from extremely long animation times.
Gravity STILL has a control gap.
Gravity STILL has subpar secondary effects.
Gravity STILL gets a Pet that is a crutch to make up for the control gap while other controlers get pets that add damage to their already superior control.

People, don't let the eye candy fool you. Falling for these weak "changes" could undo all the petitioning and work we have done to get our powerset some attention.

Just finished up the last bit of Gravity Testing:

Singularities now have 70% damage resistance verses all types but Psionic. I think they still have capped 90% resistance to Psionic. Will test more when I get the chance.

I found the knockback is still in. And the mobs spread out in an array when you port a group.

Just got done testing some of the changes.

Propel: Activation time is still the same. But now it does a little more damage than before. Currently it does 3 less points of damage than my Power Blast to a Rikti Soldier. Propel: 122 damage.
Powerblast: 125 damage total. (75 energy 25 smashing).

Then again, this is still significanty more damage in pvp against a held target (if you can ever get them held or keep them held long enough). Not sure if the bonus damage is from any controller power, or just from their base pool. The problem remains that

A: its about equal damage to Spectral Wounds but with a MUCH longer activation time

B: Being the most resisted damage type out there.

Wormhole: They posted that now Gravity has two control powers: Like heck we do. The duration of Wormhole's disorient is still 5-6 seconds base on even con mobs. Even with 3 Duration SOs, that comes to a 10-12 second disorient. Ick. With the added recharge, its still not a viable control effect.

The aoe effect has the same radius as Gravity Distortion Field, however the location you teleport the mobs to stretches the mobs out into a line with about 3-5 feet between them all. Forget trying to to port mobs into a nice cluster for aoes: it just won't happen.

Dimension Shift has some useful applications in PvP that I won't share here. But the recharge has thus been increased. Although the already unenhanceable duration has been decreased.

The biggest issue I have is with the classification of Gravity skills as smashing type... the most resisted type. Accounts for the tons of misses I have been experiencing. I also believe it is bugged and offering MORE defense to things vulnerable to smashing as opposed to less defense. Gravity Distortion Field Slotted with 3 Accuracy/Mez Enhancers (the accuracy equivalent of 4.5 accuracy SOs) Missed 3/6 Boulder Mobs (vulnerable to smashing).

I was really hoping that our control gap would be lessened or perhaps our damaeg power would be placed on par with spectral wounds. Sadly I ended up disappointed.

PPS: Sorry about the overly wordy and excessive number of paragraphs. I am in a rush to get back on test and test the changes to my other characters.

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Why? Singularities are one of the best pets in the game. Singularity, GDF and GD are the three powers in the Gravity set that really need no changes.

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Completely disagree.

Singularities aren't good pets. They are crutches. Without them the Gravity Control set would be so utterly useless at crowd controlling AND damage no one would ever play it.

None of the other Controller powersets (with pets) would trade their level 32 damage pet for a crowd control version. They already have several forms of offense friendly crowd control and are viable crowd controllers before 32. Anything else would be in excess.

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Just to note: Darkest Night is neither a slow nor an AoE rez - it is an anchored AoE accuracy/damage debuff. You may be thinking here of Howling Twilight, which is an AoE rez with a slow and disorient component.

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Sorry the Darkest Night was a leftover from a a sentence I was going to use but scrapped for the Howling Twilight Description. I just forgot to change the power's name.

I always use "slow" to describe -recharge effects and "snare" to describe -movement speed effects.

Thanks for the headsup <edits above post>

Geko: Thanks for posting.

I agree Blackhole and Dimension Shift are situational skills. The problem lies in that they may be too situational and serve very little purpose in their respective powersets.

I assume that the strength in situational skills is that in the right circumstances they prove stronger than similar powers designed to be used every fight. However if the main purpose of these powers is to be used as a Panic Button to allow a few breather seconds to escape battle, what makes it better than An AoE Sleep/Disorient/or Hold?

Or if the main function of this power is to "weed out" a few of the mobs in a group so you can tackle the ones unphased, why does this function become increasingly weaker/inefficient with each accuracy enhancement you put in the power? Again what makes this power better than a Sleep/Disorient/Hold? These control types are already "panic buttons" and retain efficiency as they also double as reliable forms of offense friendly lockdown each battle.

For Dark Miasma, The skill just becomes redundant as they already have an auto-hit disorient in Howling Twilight that also functions as a recharge debuff and an AoE rez.

For Gravity, Dimension Shift is the most skipped power next to Crush, and most people only skip crush because the aoe version Crushing Field becomes available just a couple of levels later. It remains the only other form of AoE lockdown in the entire set. Take the effects of Illusion's Phantom Army/Spectral Terror, Fire's Flashfires, Earth's Stalagmites/Salt Crystals/Earthquake, Ice's Ice Slick/Frostbite, or Mind's Mass Hypnosis/Telekinesis/Terrify. Would any of those sets ever trade any of those skills for Dimension Shift?

I guess what I am basically trying to say is that between the general consensus here on the boards and the data mining you are able to do, you can see how many people take these skills, how many actually use them, and most importantly how many people respec out of these powers. If there was a sound use for these skills, wouldn't the playerbase have caught on after about a year into release?

A while ago when the possibility for a mob hitpoint increase were first brought up, many Controllers, Tankers, and Defenders expressed concern over how this might hurt their ability to solo or erm... "arrest".

Statesman made the following two comments:

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One quick question Statesman, what about the Defenders and Controllers that ALREADY have a hard time with mobs?
How would these changes affect them?


[/ QUOTE ]We'll need to give the more "oomph" to keep up!

Oh - and on the XP - if we up mob HP, then we definitely need to up XP rewards! If the battle is more challenging for a player, then he should definitely get more reward.


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Increasing hit points on enemies….StatesMan no disrespect but that won't help a damned thing.It'll just make it all the harder for tanks to actually kill things.


[/ QUOTE ]True. Very true. That's why IF we did that, we'll also be affecting Tanker damage so that he still can keep up.

I think every Archetype should be able to solo. Can't find a team? Feel like just doing something on your own? The reason doesn't matter - just 'cause you're soloing doesn't mean that you should be prevented from enjoying the game. I'm keenly aware that increasing hit points WOULD impact Tankers (and for that matter Controllers) negatively.


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In the first post you insinuate some change (not necessarily damage) to positively increase the strength of controllers/defenders with the "new" mobs.

In the second post you indirectly reference Controllers after speaking about Tankers issues/damage with the new mob hitpoint increase. You state that you are aware that this will negatively impact controllers.


My question is simple: Are these changes still in the works, or were they passed over. If they were passed over, why did you choose to do so after stating that you saw the change as having a negative impact on Controllers.

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My char on the Protector server has completed the Envoy of Shadows story arc (and has the souvenir to prove it), and yet was not awarded the badge for killing the archvillian in that arc (I believe its called "Demonslayer" or something similar). I am sure other instances of my char not receiving badges have occured since I was pretty thorough when it came to completeing missions (it was all I did until I ran out of missions) but I haven't been keeping track of all the badges yet, I only noticed the Envoy badge bec. a friend of mine had it and told me it was for this arc I had already completed. I haven't also received the #3 TF badge (for the Freakshow TF in IP), but I am assuming its just a delay in datamining...

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That's because Envoy isnt the mob that you have to kill to get the badge. The actual mob that needs to be killed to get the Envoy of shadows badge is actually named Baphomet NOT the envoy.