Mr. NoPants

Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake

It was a more general post there; I don't actually have a take on you so no editorial was implied. So no snark at you more than a casual observation about how it is hard to tell intent on forums where rationality is not only not assumed, but is sometimes conspicuously absent.

Now on to brad, honestly, I am not going to say you are being unreasonable, but do you really think there is anything that NCsoft can do that WOULD satisfy you? Given that you appear to have been bitten by them in the past, and are currently unlikely to trust them, I doubt that anything from them would encourage you any more than an assurance from a suit would mollify me. Bottom line is what will happen will happen, we have no way of affecting it above what we already have, trying to get our friends to play, and in game helping flagging players so that they stay around and keep paying the light bills, beyond that we can do nothing, knowing that we have a kill number would just give the doom criers fuel to their theories that CoH is on a death-walk, and would be co-opted by everyone with an agenda that without immediate additions to bases, PvP, Asian costumes(my own pet whinge)or whatever their pet peeve is, then the game will go below the number and we are all doomed, basically what they do now, but with the unearned credibility of having a real number to throw in the developers face in their existing rants.

I doubt anyone is naive enough to think that they will keep the full staffing on hand after the issue launches, Standard procedure seems to be to draw on large amounts of extra resources that are intended to be paid for with the price tag of the expansion, the hope is simply that the NCsoft guys don’t pare things down to post CoV levels, which seems less likely since unlike back then, NC is getting all of the pie, rather than sharing it with cryptic. It’s also crazy to think that paragon and NC don’t want rogue to sell well, whether or not there is a kill number attached to it, they will want some return on investment, but announcing that there is a kill number would only serve to panic the players into thinking that the game may be doomed, so no use paying for the expansion.

So honestly, this is a great deal of fan speculation based on possibly relevant and possibly irrelevant events that we have seen in the past, but if we don’t understand the full setting, and don’t trust those who try to tell us it, kind of a waste of time to tell us things really. We won’t believe it anyhow.

Originally Posted by Golden Girl

They don't even tell us little things - like Walk being planned - we only knew that when it appeared on the Test server - and the same with the new Halloween stuff.
So, assuming they're adding something new for the winter event, we're not going to find out until it's on Test - and the event is like only a month or so away.
Or what about the next booster pack? All we know about that is that Positon said "ninjas are cool" at Hero Con.

Originally Posted by InfamousBrad

You're right. If, in fact, there is no benchmark they have to hit? If, in fact, there is no deadline by which they have to hit it? If, in fact, there is no consequence for failing to hit some benchmark or deadline? They're screwed. Because given NCsoft's history, nobody in their right mind would believe them if they said so. You are absolutely right that that's not fair. Which is why NCsoft should never have painted themselves into that corner in the first place.

I think it was the Tabula Rasa thing that screwed them up the hardest, that angered the most people. Because literally right up until the day before they announced the server shutdown date, they were promising new development that people were going to love. Literally: the day before. As late as the day before, developers were giving interviews to Massively and other game sites, and posting emails to Tabula Rasa fan websites, about the future development schedule, and how wonderful all the new features were going to be. People who were pointing at how far TaRa had gone over budget, who were pointing at how little commitment to the game the Garriotts themselves were showing, people who were pointing to visible in-game evidence that subscription numbers were sliding fast, were told by other players to shut up, that we didn't know what we were talking about, because NCsoft was promising everybody that the game still had a great future ... and then boom.

Out of curiosity, can anybody name even one proposed feature that the developers have put on a timeline for after Going Rogue? I can't think of one. Which means that we have even LESS assurance of a future for City of Heroes, if Going Rogue isn't a huge hit, than Tabula Rasa subscribers were being given right up until the day before the shutoff date announcement.

I'd like to think that NCsoft's commitment to this game is open-ended, that they don't care what happens to the subscriber numbers, that they're going to keep the current development staff at 50 or more no matter what happens, that the servers would never be shut off no matter what happens to the financials. I would very much like to believe that. But I'd have a hard time believing that of any company, and I sure as heck couldn't make myself believe it regarding NCsoft.

So, again, I ask: what metrics has NCsoft set for "minimum success" for CoH and/or CoH:GR, with what deadline, how are those metrics doing, and when and how will we know?

Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater

Yeah ... too bad they learned to serpentine when near the guard towers.

Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater

And you know damn well that we have some of those folks running around here.

Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater

Or people deciding to buy the other new shiny - the one with the really pretty characters and all the wings - as opposed to CoH. Who knows? As I said, it's not as earth-shattering as the graph would seemingly indicate upon first glance. Especially since the data shows that there have consistently been between 5,000 and 7500 new copies of CoH sold per quarter for the past 3 years. Still not nearly as informative as subscriber info, though.

Originally Posted by White Hot Flash

Also, without any numbers to show how many accounts got deactivated during the same time period, what we're seeing is pretty useless.

Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater

You're a good man, NoPants, but this graph needs a little work.

First of all, it's not labeled. For those wondering, this is the number of copies of CoH sold per quarter. Second, the graph makes things seem much more severe than what the numbers really indicate. The highest number of copies sold per quarter on this chart is shy of 7500, in the 3rd quarter of 2006. The lowest sold per quarter is somewhere in the neighborhood of 5300, in the 4th quarter of 2007. While there has been a drop in the number of copies sold since the 2nd quarter of this year, and the 3rd quarter sales for this year are on the low end of quarterly sales over the past 3 years, it's actually only a drop of around 1200. not really DOOOOOOM-worthy.

Now, if we could still see subscription numbers, we'd have a much better barometer of the game's health.

Originally Posted by Dispari

Actually, I believe this is a two-layer trap.

Ryu claims that content is easy to make because of AE. I mean, all you do is slap some enemies into a mission, add some text, and it's content right?

He also claims that 99% of AE missions are garbage.

So what's to stop dev content from being garbage if it's just created with AE stuff? Sure they have great writers, but there are plenty of great writers amongst our player base. Even if it comes out with a compelling story, it's still just the same defeat and glowie missions with the same gangs.

The only way for the devs to create new content that's fun and interesting is to come up with new ideas and, as a dev (Positron?) actually put it, do things we can't do yet. That's what happened with the new TFs. They implemented new ideas, new powers, and new enemies.

So on one hand, Ryu claims it should be a cinch to just throw some stuff together and release it as dev content. On the other hand, if they did that, Ryu would be here complaining that the new dev content is crap. To make new stuff, the devs need time. Time Ryu doesn't want to give them, because this stuff should be "easy." They can't win, no matter what route they take.

Originally Posted by EvilRyu

You might enjoyed them but we know the devs can do better. I dont know why you all are just not seeing this. Am I so wrong to set the dev standard so high? If they did awsome work before then why didnt they continue to do that? The past 6 issues have been phail because I know they can do better. I am not saying issues 1-10 have been perfect either but its more dev worthy content than the past 6 have been. Thats what I am saying. If you all want to keep the standards that the devs have so low then all it does is open up more room for the competition (provided we get some I dont count CO) to move in and steal players. For the record am I saying what I am saying not because of the Massively article because I know those things are biased but because the devs need to know this, we all know you can do better. I have a ton of friends who left CoX for Aion because there was flatout nothing worth playing in CoX. At least now there might be a chance they will come back but only if GR is content heavy.

Originally Posted by Obsidius

They should just remove hunts altogether. It might be an extreme idea, but I always thought hunts were just a bad device that is used when the writer needs some sort of segueway between missions, implemented before better tech allowed for better story writing. "Well, we're at a dead end, so just beat up a bunch of thugs until one of them talks." Hunts are, IMHO, unnecessary time sinks, and especially in the case of PI hunt missions, can be aggravating, especially of two groups or individuals are hunting the same mobs.

Removing hunts would be another way to avoid fiascoes caused by zone events, and IMHO, kills two birds with one stone.

Originally Posted by EvilRyu

Garbage in terms of dev content. AE doesnt count, 99% of those arcs are crap and you know it. Reused powers ported to different ATs is not content, recolored powers are not content. Cimerora was no where near big enough and the arcs too small and too few. And dont get me started on that epic phail of the M.Bison TF that we got. We flatout told them that TF wasnt dev worthy from a story standpoint yet they didnt change it much. So yeah the past 6 issues were garbage.

Originally Posted by Eiko-chan

No, they aren't.

Only a man would say that.

Appearance matters. The beautiful thing about this game is the costume, and that my "epic gear" (enhancements) don't make me look colour blind or like a ******.

Originally Posted by Dragon_King

As a 60 month vet I would have no problem with the devs dropping all the costume bits from the vet rewards and handing them out to new subscribers.

When the vet rewards came out it was a diffrent time and diffrent thinking all together. I would not be opposed to the vet rewards stopping at 60 or 63 months because I'm pretty sure that time could be better served on other things like reworking older costumes, older TF's (I'm looking at you Positron), etc.

More options is always better... Keep the temps and whatnot but let everyone have costumes. Entitlement because I have kept paying for an account for this long doesn't work for everything. I believe my access to the temp powers and badges set me appart from my ability to wear Samarai Armor, and if i'm not wearing Samarai pieces on my alt of choice at the moment how would a new player know that I had those anyway without extensively searching my info.

As time goes on evaluation of the methods in which decisions were made in the past needs to be relooked at to decide if the right choices were made. What made since two years ago may not fit the mold now. Constant evolution needs to be in play and I believe the devs have shown in the past that they are well aware of this.

Costumes for the masses I say....

(Hides in corner....)

Originally Posted by Eiko-chan

Except that the "extra" powers aren't "new" to the game - they're in the game, and (largely) attainable, on a temporary basis, by all players if they take the right steps (missions/arcs). So giving a veteran a bonus of something that is in the game, but they don't have to work for (or get more permanently, or get at a discount, etc.) is a perfectly reasonable veteran reward that doesn't fall into the "locking away things arbitrarily" category.

This is just the classic slippery slope argument, but slopes are rarely as slippery as advertised.

Veteran's Rewards are the only way to receive trench coats, angel/demon wings, boxing gloves/shorts. There are other ways to receive respecs, costume changes, character slots, merits, etc.

I'd like to see the VR costume pieces added to the game, and the benefit replaced by a free costume unlock instead - whatever sort of unlock the Veteran desires, be it a Vanguard piece, a weapon unlock, a craftable costume piece, or what have you. That way Veterans still get the costume bonus, but no longer have exclusive access to particular costume sets or pieces.

Originally Posted by Eiko-chan

By that logic, no one should get Power Customisation until they have played for over five years. Nor should they get access to the RWZ or Cimerora for four.

Originally Posted by Golden Girl

Before the great AE badge slaughter, arcs were being run way more than 4 times a day

Originally Posted by SoulTouch

Reading over, I guess I could understand why people got aggrevated with the 'tone' so to speak, of my post. It was after for the 4th time in that day that I was doing Tina's arc, and it just made me think how un imaginative can you get.
I just find it funny you all seem to have this thing about backing everything thats so horribly wrong in CoH as if its your husband/wife. Please!