Memphis_Bill

I don't know that I'm sold on Aeon. It doesn't have his ego or personality in the letters, and it's fairly consistent ("You MUSt do this!" basically) among his various versions. Plus, I don't really see it fitting well with heroside - it'd have to be someone it's safe to assume the character has dealt with no matter where they started.

He's somehow tied in with the Dark Watcher (IIRC.) Not Nemesis.

Then why would they keep saying we haven't met?

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Actually, I just kind of assumed she and Lady Jane were named from the same source (for no particular reason) - the Lady Jane Grey (AKA the 9 day queen.)

Likely just from liking the (not exactly accurate) movie and a bit of fascination with her.

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Why?

You're thinking of him, I believe, in the little bit that we see - the Hollows arc and a few tip missions, where he's really just a lowbie villain/hero. I only mention it (aside from the powers) because of the high level Villain alignment mission... where you're living forever, having the power (or half the power) of a god - but he's been fighting you for, what, thousands of years with the same power, finally falling because of "Nethermatter?"

That's a fair bit of power - then again, the description there *does* sound very well-ish. Though I'm not sure why, if that's the case, he and you would only be "half-powered." After all, Cole and Richter aren't exactly half-powered - other than self limitation.

(Note I'm not really arguing for it *being* him, just bringing up some information that would give him power enough to do... much more than we're used to.)

Yes. Very first mission you get from him. Not sure how you'd miss them.

Other than bringing more people in to play together on something other than farms.

So you'd be annoyed if someone asked which arch type would be best to go rouge with to run respects?

Wal-mart, last Saturday. He was a rollback special. $7.99.

I'd almost put money down that this is going to be the source of much misguided wailing and gnashing of teeth for some time ... even after it goes live.

And saying "This is not a powerset respec" when turning it into exactly that is flat out dishonest. There's no snark there at all. As I've said elsewhere, I'm very blunt when I say things. If I feel it needs more explanation later, I'll add it or edit the post - but in this case, it doesn't. There's no hostility, snark, sarcasm, elitism, non-dairy toppings or anything else involved.

It's like saying "This isn't really shaving off all your hair," then proceeding to buzz it all off, take lotion and a razor, and then pointing out your eyebrows are still somewhat there. If I wanted to be *kind,* I'd call it "lawyering" the description. Being blunt, I call it dishonest. The fact it leaves you at level 1 doesn't make it any less of a powerset respec.

Quite honestly, I don't think the OP was "ignorant" of what they were posting in the slightest. Just from how they worded the title.

I'd say I'm sorry you don't like that, but... well, again, to be blunt, I'm not. But you know right where I stand and what I think of it, pretty unambiguously, wouldn't you say?

Scroll back.

... which, the more I think about it, the more I'd like to see - but I'm not even considering thinking about suggesting possibly someday maybe holding my breath for it.

No, it's pointing out two things we don't know. My exact statement versus your rewording - and I didn't think my statement was anywhere near as aggressive as you put out above:

Meaning:

(A) Some ATs don't click with some people. They expect things the AT isn't designed around - say, tanking with a blaster. Hell, *I* admit some powersets and combos don't click with me. I can't stand Illusion, for instance. Or,

(b) We don't know your build. We don't know what you've put in it, what powers you've picked. There could be a fundamental flaw with your build and/or your tactics in using it. There's a *wide* range of IOs out there. You could have made less than ideal (or "odd" to me - and I don't mean ideal isn't "odd" to me, I play my own way) choices. I don't know.

Neither of these are attacks on you, they're plainly stated possibilities. So don't TAKE them as attacks on you. I'm blunt with what I say. If I wanted to insult you, I'd call you an idiot. I haven't done so.

And this is false. Standard levels - what I dictated above, which we've been *told* is what the game is balanced around (SOs, not IOs, not high end builds.) Are they underperforming there?

I've been playing PBs since Issue 4. When voids hit harder, we had content gaps, debt really meant something, etc. And I'm *perfectly* comfortable saying "No, they don't underperform at standard levels." They sit right where I expect them to sit - faster than pure support, not as tough as a dedicated melee AT, tougher than the dedicated ranged AT, with a few tricks thrown in.

If my PB were soloing at the same rate as my Controllers - and again, I'm not talking IO'd out Fire/Kin farmer or Ill/Storm - I'd be right there with you saying they underperform. If they were soloing at Defender speeds without something equal to the force multipliers Defenders bring, I'd be yelling for something to be done as well.

But they're not. They're faster, they're more survivable (or survivable in different ways) and bring a different mix of abilities to the table.

I don't tend to agree with saying "turn it up to x8" for a PB - that's not generally where a PB stands out. PBs and Warshades play with different sides of the difficulty slider - Warshades thrive on more bodies, PBs on fewer but tougher enemies. (Again, I'm talking at standard, not IO'd out levels. IOs can push things in all sorts of different directions.)

And if you're playing that multi-billion IO'd PB, how do you know that?

Honest question there. If that's the build you're used to, you're *not* in touch with what a standard Peacebringer does - and I'll say that using the new Light Form is *not* minor at all at those levels. It's able to be used more frequently, frankly, with the adjustments made for it. It changes the situations where it can be used - it's a lot like Domination in that respect, where pre-Dom2.0 people would hold off on using it until they were coming to a boss fight, so they could get the damage boost as well as the mag boost. Now? It pops constantly.

Not sure that's quite what you were aiming for - the variability is more the Warshade schtick. They get the "higher highs" because they're at more risk and/or reliant on outside variables (# of bodies) to get there. The PB, if anything, should be more steady. Yes, this means we're going to have lower (SO-based) potential - but we *know* we're going to have the same buff/effect/whatever each and every time we use it. My heal's *always* going to heal me for (making up a number) 360 HP at this level with this slotting, I'm *always* going to get this END discount with conserve power, Light Form is *always* going to give me the same buff.

The variability's more in build to build or player to player, in the form of what forms they've taken and the like.
And I disagree - and I really think you've been stuck in that IO mindset too long. (Not an attack, not an insult, it's just not where the rest of the game is.) From what I'm seeing, they *do* fill their requirements. Part of the issue is that - unlike tanks or blasters, for instance - people don't quite know where to *put* Peacebringers.

(Example, I got a PM from someone else in this thread asking me about my views on Knockback that I've put in there, how I can find it useful, etc. When I told them, their response was more of a "Huh. Yeah, different playstyle, I can't see myself doing anything but melee" (paraphrased.) ) And that may well be part of the variability you're trying to tell me about a little earlier - but I tend to think (from playing these for so long) that concentrating on just one or the other (melee vs ranged, and that's not taking control possibilities, etc. into the mix) short-changes the AT as a whole.

Does it mean I'm playing it "right" and you're playing it "wrong?" The only reason I'm going to say you're playing it at all "wrong" is that you don't seem to be enjoying it, and that's purely objective, not subjective. It's not running a tank without armor or mez protection and trying to be a blaster - that's subjectively wrong (and scary.) It's... a vibe, I guess, and I could well be misreading you. I just wonder if I play closer to the *devs* idea of how it should play (even past devs) and fewer of the regular posters do - much like how they've admitted being thrown by the power players have shown using IOs in ways and to levels they didn't expect.

For all I know you screwed up your build. Or just don't click with PBs.

Regardless, that is *not a baseline* and not what *anything* should be argued from. Do you understand what a "Baseline" is? IO'd out at non-base settings is NOT baseline. I don't judge how a person's physical fitness by comparing them to bodybuilders, I don't judge how an average car should perform by comparing them to super-exotics - and I don't judge AT or powerset performance by unknown multi-billion IO builds that most people will never see. Or the "Scrapper challenge," for that matter. We're not playing scrappers. We're playing Peacebringers.

What I'm basically saying, to try to clarify, is that this whole side bit of IO'd this, scrapper-challenge-that, is not particularly helpful when determining the *base* of what should or should not be done. You're talking paint color and where to put a TV before a foundation is even finished, basically. Arguing about what can be done with X billion INF of IOs means, basically, *nothing* because that's not where AT or powerset performance is (or should be) determined.

Grab that PB, use another build to make a decent *SO* build, compare it to something else reasonable at the same level *with SOs* - since that's where everything's balanced around. (And yes, I did do this - when people were complaining Ramiel's arc was too hard, I was soloing it on SOs. On squishy ATs.) Will you be the same as a scrapper or tank? No. Will you be doing blaster damage? No. But that tank/scrapper isn't goign to have the ranged damage, and the blaster's not going to have your resists, heals and other survival tools.

Frankly, I think that gets lost sight of FAR too often in the SO-heavy min/maxed world of the forums (and moreso with those that'd go to test.)

So your definition of "Acceptably playable" is (from the situation mentioned, solo) +4 and/or x8 versus some of the harder groups in the game?

Explains a lot. That's not "Acceptably playable." That's nowhere close to a realistic baseline.

... in your opinion. I find it perfectly useful and suited just right for each form.

Knockdown in the form with higher resists and hit points that's designed to tank and has only a very few attacks, 100% of which are melee.
Knockback in the form (human) that isn't, pushing enemies out of the more-dangerous melee range and making them take longer to get up as you take advantage of your mobility and RANGED attacks.

Makes sense. Unless there are some ranged attacks in Dwarf I've been missing since issue 4. Or maybe more shields in human? Oh, there aren't?

Such very USEFUL feedback. /golf clap

You mean every other incarnation on the higher-hit point, higher-defense/resist ATs that are designed for melee, typically with zero to one ranged attack?

Gee. Imagine that. Wonder why they might think the (lower HP, lower resist, no inherent defense) PB Human form might want to do something to get multiple enemies out of range in a way that takes them out of the fight for longer and puts them into (typically less damaging mob attack) ranged versus melee mode... hmmmm....

You're doing something really wrong.

Then again, I know what it's like to REALLY "barely damage enemies" - I've run an Earth/FF and Ice/Emp to 50 on SOs, after all.


IN general:
The ONLY way I'd support changing this to Knockdown would really be via an alternate power - that basically is a PBAOE placed Liquefy, essentially - meaning it continues over time. Why? Survivability. I use the time and distance I get from the knockback to stay alive and let me concentrate on the higher risk targets. Going to knockDOWN in footstomp removes that.

Creating that would likely lower the damage you'd otherwise get, but it's also thematically a good place to put in a stun to stack with Pulsar.

Calling that "a little slower" is like calling the ocean "slightly damp."

Sorry, Lemur, that's a suggestion or a workaround, not a fix. It's like putting a donut on your car when the tire's gone flat. Sure, you can roll around on it (under 40MPH or whatever the limit for it for your car is,) but it doesn't actually fix the tire that's got a nail in it.

(That said, I don't actually recall getting lag in any lately past the ever popular prisoner phase, and even that's been reduced. But I don't run a lot of them.)

I vote for Parket. Maybe Paraket.

1. You ignored the fact I only actually "work on" one per server. So, there are perhaps four characters (maybe five) I've done any real "work" on. (And one of those finished quickly.)

2. Even on *one* character it gets tedious and boring VERY fast.

The Alpha slot had the right idea, frankly - sure, it can take a bit, but shards drop from... well, pretty much everything. I can do whatever I want - task forces, trials, missions, newspapers, go help friends, exemp down, whatever and I still make progress. And with the WTF, something new gets highlighted every week to keep things fresh.

Every other slot? Baf, baf, lam, lam, baf, lam, key... wait, nobody wants to run that. (Seriously. The common response across several servers to anyone suggesting Keyes in my experience has been "lol, right.") Baf, baf, lam, baf, lam.... Even just doing 1-2 a week it's more of a "I have no choice in running this." Short of completely ignoring the system, that is.

And that's if I'm not playing at 2-3 AM (not uncommon.) Or coming in between trials, where it's me and one other person that just got to the zone too late. I'd love to burn that time making SOME progress.

NOT having SOME sort of non-trial Incarnate content to make progress on these slots - even some sort of option in the WTF for threads or some such - was shortsighted, and all we get when that's mentioned is a sort of vague "we're considering having a meeting to discuss possibly looking into forming a committee to consult on possibly brainstorming something someday." (Which is, admittedly, more than the PVPers get.)