Memphis_Bill

And as mentioned previously (by me, actually, I believe) when the zones were introduced, yes, you *were* forced to go there. The Warzone Liaison used to be located inside the zone itself, as well as act as a "contact blocker" you'd have to see and clear before you'd get regular missions. This, of course, was (properly) complained about and changed - the contact was moved outside the zone, so if you didn't want to deal with PVP, you never had to set foot inside the zone.

So, no, at this point there is absolutely nothing forcing you inside the zone. Wants are not "forced" but choices.

Y'know, in all my years of playing, I don't think I've ever *gotten* that power. o.O

Staff use, Mastermind powerset.

Summon temps. Summon middle manager. Summon CFO. Powers include "File TPS report," "Bug for signature," "Restructure."

So in practice it'd be more like... gah, I forget which SOA it is, I think the Venom grenade power from crabs (?) where if you pick it from the Soldier set, it's greyed out for the Crab Spider section and vice versa? (Admittedly for them it's just so you don't have two copies of the same power, as opposed to being "branch related," but still.)

Realistically, I'd expect to see this sort of thing added into a new set as opposed to "back-ported" to old sets. The idea itself, though, isn't too far off some of what we see elsewhere.

TR did not burn NC by chasing PVP. TR burned NC by dint of NC pushing "It's a Richard Garriot game! Richard garriot! Richard garriot! Richard garriot! Here, have more money! Let me light that cigar with more money! Oh, you scrapped everything and restarted? It's Richard Garriot! Have more money!"

TR started out *badly* in the hole, and didn't keep its population. It would have needed - well, Aion's numbers at US/EU launch, and to hold on to those numbers for at least its first year, before it even looked like it was going to pay back what it had consumed.

Contrasting that to the City Of... games, which have been profitable, reasonably consistent population wise (yes, we have the "slow bleed" of a 6 year old game, far better than the "Spike and crash" of TR) and enough of a following (and income) that NC *bought* the title and handed them more money to improve both the team (new offices, huge staff increase from 15 to 60+) and the game. I don't think saying "NC won't fund COH PVP improvements because of TR" is, frankly, any more valid than saying they won't do it because of Auto Assault.

Some PVPers have that attitude you mention. Not all. And that certainly doesn't drive their desire for PVP changes. i13 created this massive change in rules, and really killed PVP all together.

Frankly, they pushed too many changes out there all at once, instead of tweaking just one or two things at a time to see how they'd help. It'd be like someone having problems with their computer and, to fix it, being yanked out of their house, told to move to another state, put in a new house with a completely different system. It doesn't really fix the old issues, and would cause a bit of resentment at being uprooted, wouldn't you think?

The SSK system added another nail to it, quite frankly, at least for the two early PVP zones, by creating an even larger power gap between the lowest and highest tier powers. Before, you didn't have to worry about (say) a Scrapper's Tier9 attacks, or a tank's godmode, until Warburg (unless they ran off, popped it and came back in - which was generally just seen as lame.) Blasters had no nukes, Controllers/Doms had no pets, etc. Now? ugh.

Quite bluntly, they should revert quite a few of the changes, and add to the PVP zone warning - "Yes, the classes are imbalanced. Your solution is to team." The same thing that's been said by PVPers pretty much since i4. However, at this point I'd say what affects development time and resources isn't "NCSoft timidness" or unwillingness to dedicate resources, but the fact the PVP population has been decimated. So many left after I13, it seems there's been a bleed off of more since, and replacement PVPers - having run across the same situation as the OP, where "Hey, my powers don't work the way they used to, WTH?" - aren't around to replace them.

Sometimes.

For that, there's the arena.

Heh. *nod* That's precisely what was playing in my head as I read that. Mix of that and The Crow, perhaps...

You have a problem comprehending the written word, don't you. Let's go over what you're replying to.

Forced = must go there to complete a mission. Cannot continue going from 1-50 without doing so.

At one point, people could say they were forced into the PVP zones, yes. Back when the War Zone Liasons were placed inside, and you HAD to speak to them to get them out of your mission list and get your next mission. That was changed early on. Now, there is *absolutely nothing* that prevents you from completely ignoring PVP. Nothing blocks your progress from 1-50. Nothing forces you to risk PVP before you can get a new mission, complete a current mission, complete a task force, etc.

Nothing.

Again. nobody is forced into any PVP situation. Period.

CHoice = Personal decision to put yourself at risk, agreeing to the fact that yes, you CAN be attacked, that someone may attack your character whether you want to PVP or not. You are in a PVP zone. You made that choice to go after whatever is in there, just like your choice to change how your costume looks puts you at Icon. The game did not force you to.

You enter the zone *of your own free will.* YOU decide "hey, I want a shivan."

Contrast this with Aion, for instance, where a good part of the content post-20 is in one of three zones (using the Elyos side names) - the Abyss, which is the main war zone at all times, Eltnen, where enemy players can infiltrate via rift and "spy" missions, and Heiron, where higher level enemy players can infiltrate via rift. In fact, some of the "Campaign" quests *require* you to put yourself at risk of PVP before the next quest chain will unlock. The best gear in the game also generally requires you to PVP, requiring Abyss points and medals for fortress raids or defense to purchase.

That's required pvp exposure, not choice. There is nothing even remotely similar in COH, where you can play from 1-50 36 times per server and never see an enemy player (in a situation where they can attack you, that is - obviously you can go into co-op zones.)

So, direct answer?

Yes, you can get them without ever PVPing, if you end up going in when nobody's in the zone. However, don't ***** that someone attacked you or that you have some "right" not to be attacked just because you're doing that. It's a PVP zone, you chose to go in and take that risk. If you're going to blame anyone, blame yourself, don't whine.

No problem. (That correction, at least, wasn't meant as snark.)

Because you're doing the same thing?
It would certainly reduce the number of people doing nice things like holding on to an enhancement for a friend or SG mate, and drive people from the game. Game shuts down = no hoarding.
How about saying it's dumb on the basis (not "bases") that it's just dumb?

Yes, yes it is. And the sooner you realize that, the better.

The effect your idea has on in-game influence:
- You add a fee that drains INF from everyone, most noticably to those who aren't the high earners.
- Those people get disgusted and quit.
- There are now fewer people playing the game, thus less INF is being earned and less stuff on the market... which, of course, means people who HAVE been piling up the INF can bid at the cap anyway.

yeah, great plan.

I'm already earning prestige to create the base, place the items, and put that storage in - storage shared among the entire SG.

I'm also using that storage to help the other SG members. It's none of your business what I'm using it for, quite frankly.
According to you. They "should" be getting used however people want to use them. They're paying their $15/mo as well. You don't like it, pay my sub fees and everyone elses. THEN you can dictate how they "should" or "should not" be getting used.

Typical SG base for me:
- Three tables for common IOs, sorted by range. Possibly an "overflow" table, too.
- One for IO sets for everyone. Don't need an IO, outgrew it? Put it there.
- One for personal IO storage (honor system - your name is on it when you put it in, don't take one that isn't yours.)
- 1-2 tables for DOs/SOs.
- Salvage tables for everyone's use.

So, who's paying fees on what *everyone* uses? And why be penalized, past base rent (which everyone, by earning prestige, contributes to) for daring to actually *share* and act as a *group?*

So, no, I don't like your poorly thought out, generally *horrid* suggestion. By the way, The market is not the cornerstone of the game. I don't give a rat's *** if "the market is hurt." I'm more interested in having fun with my friends and SG mates. You don't like that? Tough.

Which will only hurt those who aren't rolling in INF, and not make one whit of difference to the multi-billionaires this is supposed to affect.
No, it's a way to penalize people who don't need penalizing. It's removing money from people who can't afford to have it removed, while really not bothering those who have a ton of INF.

Tell me, if you were charging $300 rent to people for something, who would it hurt more - the person making $400 a month, or the person who makes $150,000/mo plus bonuses and stock?

Guess who you're affecting with this stupid idea?

A penalty that hurts the people that aren't "part of the problem" while not really bothering those that have all the INF (and supposedly "drive up prices") is a stupid one, thus, yes, not popular.

What's the line you see between "hoard" and "store?" Where do you define "hoard?" If I make bids at, say, level 20 for enhancement sets and luck out, getting them all by 23 - even though I'm planning to use them at 35 - am I "Storing" or "Hoarding?" How do you know the difference? And what business is it of yours to begin with?

What if I'm picking them up on one character to use on another?

What if I'm doing what I often do, making a bunch of level 15 acc, dam and end IOs because my friends and I are planning on new alts, and those don't get used for a month? Or two months, because of personal schedules not meshing?

There's already enough "upkeep" in rent. Adding more stupid fees on top of it - when not everyone is rolling in INF - is just idiocy. And really, it's none of your business what I do with my enhancements, salvage, etc. I, personally, prefer to avoid the market as a rule. If I couldn't store a recipe, and couldn't trade it off or whatnot, it'd be vendored - the market isn't losing a *damn* thing from me. Throwing in a - to be blunt - *stupid* INF charge? That'd be irritation enough for me to walk away from the game. (Much like the constant charges for *freaking everything* are the reason I'm ending my Aion sub this month.)

My "privilege," by the way, comes from being able to build UP a base to the point where I can store these, and afford the storage, and the rent. It's already earned. You don't like that, too damn bad.

The people with money *don't care.* The people without it are the ones who would be hurt by this. Thus, this (unsurprisingly) is a *really bad idea.*

Just thinking of the reaction of, say, those who go to school and only play on summer/winter breaks. "I had 20 million on here, where'd it all go?" "Storage fees." Or who renew for new issues. Or who get sent overseas for a year. yeaaaah.... and people mention "losing a name" as being reason to not renew. Meanwhile, smurphy (for instance) would still be perfectly able to offer 10 billion for a custom AE arc, and not bat an eye at these "fees."

You:

Me, giving you a direct answer:
Simple enough that even you should be able to understand it... maybe. Now, I *was* going off the assumption there, after a quick scan, that you actually MEANT Prestige. Regardless, costs WERE reduced - which should give you an idea about dev attitudes towards the costs to begin with. Why would they add another fee? And going through and charging INF for it? That's such an *exceptionally stupid* idea that even Power and TCS together wouldn't come up with it.

So, I go through and put a couple of items into storage. I then don't play that character for a month - I've got a bunch of alts, to begin with, and I go on vacation. The character has, oh, 1.3 million INF. I come back to that character a month later and, what, they have a negative amount? The item disappears? It's unable to be gotten out at all? - yet, of course, still being in storage, it would still cost INF by your "idea."

The big flaw in your idea: You're assuming that everyone has billions of INF. Those who do, wouldn't care. Hell, if it DID start to matter, they can roll more alts and store the items on them, PLing them as they farm, if they do, so they can hold more. Thus getting around your "cap" and doing nothing but hurting the people who AREN'T rolling in INF.

No, but from prior experience, it would be common enough to be "expected," and frankly, not much fun - and after it DOES become common, expect those merit rewards to get nerfed HARD. Just like... hmmm... the same ones that were abused as speed runs before!

It already does. It influences rent. That's plenty. You'll note costs went DOWN not that long ago.

And you can't "use storage units to hoard recipes." Recipes are not storable by a SG in any way.

Besides, you have no idea what, or how much, my SGs store. I, for instance, tend to grind out lvl 15 common IOs for new alts and other lowbies. That, of course, is none of your damn business, and no, I shouldn't be penalized for making them.

Again, nobody is forced to RV, or any other PVP zone. None of the badges, or anything else in those zones, is required for the game. If somebody *wants* a badge, that's a different matter - but that's choice, not "forced."

Assuming you mean a combat medic as opposed to the civilian red cross organization - you do realize they are, among other things, supposed to be able to provide covering fire and otherwise fight, yes? As well as the fact they have been *specifically targeted* (a feeling I'm sure many Emp/ defenders and controllers can sympathize with) in the past?

Just for recent history -
War journalists killed while Covering Iraq : 24

What point were you trying to make without checking your facts again?

Could've 6-slotted some. Not many - thus the change to giving more slots instead of powers. Which not only directly makes you more powerful, but also affects how you can look at inventions and the bonuses they give, which can radically alter your character.

More challenging enemies by then? Really? I can't think of any that really remind me of the Knives, or Carnies, or Malta. Yes, you've seen quite a bit of Longbow, Arachnos and the Council, and the COT really kind of peter out (though they do start introducing the succubus,) but "More challenging?" The rogue Vanguard were a rude surprise to many "I'm invincible!" melee folks when they came out and require a change in attitude and technique, for example, where my control-based characters (who have a heck of a time with Cimerorans and the later Arachnos mez protection) went through them with not a care in the world.

I have to ask - how many characters have you gotten through this "grind" on each side? Because it doesn't sound like you've been paying attention to everything else going on there. Now, yes, the "type" of missions aren't widely varied - though you can boil down missions as far as you want. Heck, I could say there are only two types of missions in the game, "Offense" and "Defense," if I wanted to.

You assume I have my headphones on. Or that I have those sounds up. Or that I can hear it over music, or me talking to my friends. You know what happens when you assume, right?

I think you need to re-read what I asked. Let me highlight the relevant part:

You do not require that to get from 1-50. You WANT that. You do not require that. I think I have one, maybe two villains with it, yet I have several at 50. Nothing requires it. You do not need it to finish an undroppable mission.

So, yes, in a way you did answer the question - "Nothing in a PVP zone is required to get to 1-50, finish any mission/tf/sf, or finish the game." Therefore, if you don't want to risk engaging in PVP, or someone else attacking you, you have nothing forcing you to enter a PVP zone and no reason to enter and insist PVPers leave you alone. "Want" isn't it.