The Most Radical Change to Fiery Melee!
By
Azerrath,
Posted on: 2010-03-28 12:06 in Suggestions and Ideas
So what would this do mechanically? Why not just give fire sword-based alternate animations to a lot of the attacks?
NPCs: A Single Method to Greatly Expand Bases
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Different effects. This is a prototype that I'd like to test to begin with.|
Originally Posted by CapnGeist
So what would this do mechanically? Why not just give fire sword-based alternate animations to a lot of the attacks?
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In the end, I'd like to have completely different powers, but the Elemental/Weaponry sets are a strange beginning.
For example, Controllers? Give the options of choosing some other form of control instead of a summon or some single-target holds instead of multi-target, or vice versa.
It's a solid idea, and it already exists for SoAs. It'd be cool to be added for other things.
NPCs: A Single Method to Greatly Expand Bases
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Precisely, but I'd like to see the other 'trees' not completely blocked out like in SoAs.|
Originally Posted by CapnGeist
It's a solid idea, and it already exists for SoAs. It'd be cool to be added for other things.
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Again, the biggest problem is whether or not to allow selection from both trees.
Not what I meant. There's a few powers that come in both your low-level version and a high-level version for which you can only choose one of the two.
NPCs: A Single Method to Greatly Expand Bases
I would love to go fire or ice melee without getting a sword.
It looks good to me. As for chosing from both then I think the best idea is to use an off shot of the system that exist for selecting one of the 'epic' arch types/ Shield defense. Best case being shield defense. You pick shield defense, it blocks powersets that cannot work along side it.
So in this case, you chose one power from one branch, the other power on the same tier on the other branch is now blocked.
Love this idea...I'm for it
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@Inconclusive
Why did you rename the last sword attack?
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So in practice it'd be more like... gah, I forget which SOA it is, I think the Venom grenade power from crabs (?) where if you pick it from the Soldier set, it's greyed out for the Crab Spider section and vice versa? (Admittedly for them it's just so you don't have two copies of the same power, as opposed to being "branch related," but still.) |
Originally Posted by Sigium
Precisely, but I'd like to see the other 'trees' not completely blocked out like in SoAs.
Again, the biggest problem is whether or not to allow selection from both trees. |
Realistically, I'd expect to see this sort of thing added into a new set as opposed to "back-ported" to old sets. The idea itself, though, isn't too far off some of what we see elsewhere.
I can't help but imagine all the elemental melee sets redone as both slash/lethal melee sets one weapons and one unarmed...it's really awesome in my head.
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The term 'Greater Fire Sword' sounds so very scientific. No real flare to the name (excuse the pun.) It just sounds like the devs ran out of creative names, so they just said "Well, it's like Fire Sword, but greater!"|
Originally Posted by LISAR
Why did you rename the last sword attack?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
So in practice it'd be more like... gah, I forget which SOA it is, I think the Venom grenade power from crabs (?) where if you pick it from the Soldier set, it's greyed out for the Crab Spider section and vice versa? (Admittedly for them it's just so you don't have two copies of the same power, as opposed to being "branch related," but still.)
Realistically, I'd expect to see this sort of thing added into a new set as opposed to "back-ported" to old sets. The idea itself, though, isn't too far off some of what we see elsewhere. |
For example, let's take an imaginary powerset, Water Melee, shall we?
One one side, you could have a branch that involves punches and kicks with an aquatic twist; this branch embodies a single-target style with a great deal of utility, including a stun, a Drain Health power, and maybe even a summon power that would increase the damage of your water based attacks, maybe even something to give you a few moments of stealth after hitting.
On the other branch would be the Water Spear branch that would take the form of Multi-Target DPS. You'd have things like a short-reach, targetted AoE like Lightning Rod, you'd have your PBAoE, your cones, your thrust power like Headsplitter and such, but you'd get the feel of it- Multi-target DPS all the way; low utility. You'd have no summon, no drain health, no nothing but a lot of good, raw power.
This is the general feel I'd like to get; embody two different play styles in a single powerset. The trouble is modifying something in a way the community wouldn't lose it's balls over.
Do you mean branching as in skill trees in other mmo's? Or like the VEATS in this mmo?
Would Earth just be divided into smash hammer and smash with no hammer?
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To an extent?|
Originally Posted by LISAR
Would Earth just be divided into smash hammer and smash with no hammer?
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First off, we'd need to establish the difference between the two branches: What would the purpose of A be and B be?
Let's say you wanted Stone Melee divided into Tree A, which uses the Stone Fists and a stone body in order to slow and snare enemies while dealing a good amount of DoT, while Tree B is the Stone Hammer is made for Smashing DPS pure and simple.
So, you'd have a Slow&DoT/DPS set-up.
No, it wouldn't completely rip off Controllers' Stone Control, but it would borrow some ideas from it, like helping to give the user some crowd control over enemies. This means, over all, it would be more of a tank build for major AoE tanking.
It really depends on what the different branches are made to do.
I couldn't see a change to game play that would change function of the set. Swapping smash for lethal doesn't seem like change in function but maybe I haven't looked into the game stats closely enough.
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I contend that it wouldn't change any function of anything, but merely add additional functions to rival those already there for those who would like them.
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Originally Posted by LISAR
I couldn't see a change to game play that would change function of the set. Swapping smash for lethal doesn't seem like change in function but maybe I haven't looked into the game stats closely enough.
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By snare do you mean hold?
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Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of Slow/Immobilize. I'd like to leave the Holds to the other, more control-oriented ATs.
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Originally Posted by LISAR
By snare do you mean hold?
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You know, I could see changes like this creating a heavier split between Brutes and Tankers.
Assuming DPA is comparable, Brutes usually prefer faster activating attacks (to build fury), wheras Tankers are more willing to accept a slow power with a high payoff.
I think the answer here is to start working on a full mockup of a branched set... and that being said, I think fire is the absolute WORST place to start this.
Why is Fire the worst? Fire's powers are DoTs, DoTs, and more DoTs. There's no variety in what fire does.
The best place to start would be Electric Melee. Elec Melee has a wide variety of weird attacks, and secondary effects range the gambit including sleep, stun, disorient, end reduction, and knockback.
Elec Melee's attacks seem to be split between brawler-style electric punches and point-blank electrical discharge. I'd suggest bringing Electricity Manipulation's "Shocking Grasp" into the set as well.
NPCs: A Single Method to Greatly Expand Bases
Quote:
I chose fire because I picked it out of random from the different powers and said "This'll do."|
Originally Posted by CapnGeist
You know, I could see changes like this creating a heavier split between Brutes and Tankers.
Assuming DPA is comparable, Brutes usually prefer faster activating attacks (to build fury), wheras Tankers are more willing to accept a slow power with a high payoff. I think the answer here is to start working on a full mockup of a branched set... and that being said, I think fire is the absolute WORST place to start this. Why is Fire the worst? Fire's powers are DoTs, DoTs, and more DoTs. There's no variety in what fire does. The best place to start would be Electric Melee. Elec Melee has a wide variety of weird attacks, and secondary effects range the gambit including sleep, stun, disorient, end reduction, and knockback. Elec Melee's attacks seem to be split between brawler-style electric punches and point-blank electrical discharge. I'd suggest bringing Electricity Manipulation's "Shocking Grasp" into the set as well. |
In fact, this could consolidate Broadsword and Katana together into a single powerset that shares Confront/Build-Up with two different... Err... Not gonna go there.
The Suggestion: Make Fiery Melee into a branch-style powerset to give it diversity!
The Reason: Because branching powersets could be a wonderful resource to add flavor to different characters and/or different builds. It adds a much deeper level of customization to the character and their play style.
Why Fiery Melee?!: We all need to start somewhere. Why not?
Branching System?! What kind of a game do you think this is?!:
When people think of 'branching', we think to games like D&D on the old tabletops, perhaps, or other MMOs that we're so adamant about staying away from to preserve the individuality of the game and the familiarity that our players feel while playing the game. There's nothing wrong with this until it begins to hinder progress because of the vocal minority, but that's an entirely different thread entirely.
Branching won't be the end of the 'Fiery Melee we all know and love', in fact, it will expand it to make it more friendly to those around!
So, what could possibly be added that the community would agree on? How do you make a radical change amongst a community that goes into a small uproar over the most meager of changes? The answer is a simple comparison I made in MSPaint:
http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/u...SiggyModel.png
Now, as you'll see, there are branches, but they get back to things like Build Up/Confront/Breath of Fire. This is pretty important, considering those powers are relatively staple. But let's get some raw facts, shall we?
What stays the same:
Powers will still do the same amount of damage (Moderate/Minor, etc.), they will still have the same area of effect, they will still be */Fire damage and they will be available at the same level ranges.
What changes:
Some powers have Smashing/Fire while others have Lethal/Fire, some powers will have their secondary effects altered to give the sets a different appeal.
For instance, Fiery Melee might add a few stuns to make it closer to Martial Arts with a twist, while the Fiery Blade might utilize the DoT effect much more.
The problems:
There are problems, who would argue that?
1. Let them choose both branches?!
-- I'd lean towards 'no', myself, but I see a number of people who like having Fire Sword/Circle alongside with Cremate/Incinerate. I don't see the community endorsing a change that would force them to re-choose some of their own powers from what they currently are and are comfortable with.
2. Too similar to others?
-- I'd like to think that the Fiery Melee hand attacks are pretty unique, in that they would have the authenticity of being new powers with a kick to them (literally). But what about people who say "Just take Martial Arts and get Fiery Aura?" I don't have an answer for the people who will insist that the sets are too similar (despite the differences.)
3. Proliferation?
-- It would take a damn long time to proliferate this to the point where it would be feasible to introduce Live. Imagine if the original powersets (for those of you who still have your original Game Manuals) just had these? It would take a long, long time to get everything done, don't you think?
But as it is, this is a ROUGH DRAFT of an idea. I present you, the community, this idea to tear apart at your leisure. Thanks!