Memphis_Bill

Yep, yet somehow he wants to paint it as getting it after one game even after that argument.

Then I'll point out that you're a fool.

Excuse me?

You mean me, who's fought him with non-IO'd-out characters, EVERY AT? Show me where I said it was "too hard." Go ahead. Dig up that quote. Dig HARD. You wont' find it, because I never stated that.

Listen VERY closely.

I DISAGREE VEHEMENTLY WITH REMOVING WHAT HAS BEEN A VALID OPTION THAT PLAYS TO SOME CHARACTERS STRENGTHS. You know, just like high defense, high damage, or holds. Do you get it now, or do you need it pounded into that cement block of a skull of yours even more?

You gripe at BI for putting words in other peoples mouths. Don't do it yourself, or just ask to change your handle to "Hypocrite."

As for changing the encounter? Yes. It's a puzzle. "What's making him regen, and what can I do to defeat that?" We had multiple options before. We have one LESS option now.

FEWER options for dealing with an encounter is a BAD THING.

Simple enough for you?

And yet one of the solutions FOR said puzzle ("What can I do to defeat his regen?") is being taken away, and you call it a good thing. Do you even listen to yourself?

Wow. You even argue with yourself.

What did Glen there say - "You do not get the alpha slot for completing that mission." It's a very straightforward statement, but I'll break it down for you:

You - the player.

Do not - a negative state

Get - to be rewarded

The alpha slot - the reward

For completing that mission - note it's not "the arc," but THAT MISSION, indicating a singular encounter. Namely, the fight to and with Trapdoor.

The opposite of that would be "You DO get the alpha slot for completing that mission," which means at the end of THAT MISSION, you are awarded it. You defeat trapdoor, get yellow text saying "Alpha Slot Unlocked."

Do you get that? No.

Therefore, you do NOT get the alpha slot for completing that mission, any more than you get it for talking to Statesman/Recluse, Lady Grey, defeating Holz or the Honoree. You get it for completing the arc, of which the Trapdoor fight is an *early part.* You could *conceivably* say you get it for defeating the Echo of Minos, as once you do, you can pass to the next room where you click the glowie and are awarded with it.

You get the alpha slot for finishing ALL of the missions. Not for finishing Trapdoor. You get Inf for finishing Trapdoor. You may get Prestige. You may get a recipe, enhancement, salvage or merit drop for doing so. You do NOT get the Alpha slot.

So, that ranged blast they use to do so isn't part of the character, or the maneuverability (also used for things like not getting into melee if that would be bad for you) isn't?

Again, you're making the argument that *using a power and moving while still being at risk of ranged and melee attack* is "too easy," while *using a power which puts you under no risk of attack at all* is not.

Not necessarily to revamp.

Yes, it was needed in Faultline. And for Boomtown, it likely would be as well. But Dark Astoria? Crey's Folly? They made the AE buildings "shiny," so they can "reskin" buildings, and those zones are big, laid out just fine, and just begging for some story arction.

They'd be great for a revamp.

The devs use the Shard as an example of it taking "a lot of work," but that's a bit misleading (the Shard is large, yes, and four zones.) It's like using a speedway on race day as an example that "People drive too fast."

As far as new zones - more in Praetoria, and I want to see more Villainside, as well. Heroside, you can take a few "paths" from 1-50. Villainside, you can't, and the "Trash Dump" look gets depressing.

I hate to be seen as supporting B_I in any way, but they HAVE - in the cases of many of the powers above - indicated a sense of either the power being "too good" (Shivans - really, any risk these days in PVP zones, which was supposed to be their "balance?") or outright banning them from other encounters (Warburg nukes.)

It's *not* that big a stretch to see they may decide to neuter those in this and other encounters, either. If a *pull* - a standard tactic - is "bad" because, in your own words, "it makes the fight too easy," then yes, I *would* see it as perfectly reasonable to assume Shivans (don't take long to get, don't really have to fight anything but turrets) would get banned from this, and that Trappy would get EB/AV level hold resistance (as mentioned earlier) as that makes it even LESS of a fight than pulling. And, frankly, that either he'd get some fire resistance, or the lava would be "cooled off."

I mean, really, it's been said a pull is bad because it makes the fight too easy, but holds are perfectly fine. Let's compare the two:

+ = Good for player
- = Bad for player

PULLING:
+ Removes him from the source of his regeneration
- Lets him fight back at full damage and full strength
- Lets him maintain maneuverability.

HOLDING:
+Doesn't let him bifurcate, removing any chance of regen
+Doesn't let him fight back
+Doesn't let him move.

So - given several *common NPCs* have higher hold protection than trappy here, why aren't you campaigning for a tactic which is JUST as fair of a use of powers, which makes the fight even EASIER, to get yanked by giving him insane hold protection? It's not even like he'd be the only extremely-hard-to-hold AV (or for that matter incarnate) in the arc, as Honoree shrugged off most holds I tried stacking at him.

Sorry, but your "It makes the fight too easy" argument just doesn't hold water.

mmm hmmm.

Also note frankenslotting may not result in any bonuses. But, hey, you want to avoid someone who knows what they're doing just because they don't have a list on a tab... *shrug*

Prove it's a bug instead of them changing their minds for whatever reason. Toggles dropping on zoning/exiting a mission/etc is a bug. (Also, add to it this, in the patch notes:

)

For defeating Trapdoor? No, you aren't. And in case you hadn't noticed, pulling him into the hallway doesn't make him helpless. He can still attack you at full strength. It's hardly "low risk."

For defeating Trapdoor, Honorree, the rogue Vanguard and the Echo of Minos and finishing the arc? THAT you're being rewarded for.

Or did you miss the rest of the missions in the arc?

/this and

/this.

It's not like this came out of the blue late in test, or after release. People were talking about how to beat trapdoor throughout test - using those exact methods.
"If you're tough enough, beat on him.
If you're slightly less, drag him to the lava and beat on him.
If you're having issues with his regen, pull him out of the room.
If you've got holds, use them."

Over and over again. Hell, PULLING isn't new.

In that case, they should patch so he can't jump in the lava. That's taking advantage of the situation (that environment) to one's benefit.

Hell, if you want to use *that* loose of a definition, they need to get rid of blaster nukes. Spawn that stays close together? The nuke would take advantage of that situation for the blaster's own benefit. Or the opportunity to pick and drop missions. Group you don't do well against so you pick another? By that loose definition, THAT's an exploit.

How far do you want to go with that definition? Or would you prefer to use the one the devs gave us a while back - excessive reward for the risk involved? (Something that is *not* the case with Trapdoor.)

(Of course, strictly speaking you're using the verb definition - to exploit something - as opposed to *an exploit,* which is what the devs defined.)

As is fighting at range and forcing an enemy to charge after you, picking your own spot to fight.

If I'm running around in - say - the Wolf's Throat, with the various machine-gun turrets in the walls, I'm pulling enemies away from there so I'm not getting pelted from there. If I'm fighting COT, I'm pulling them away from crystals. Or, if you want to look at *powers,* if I'm fighting Longbow, I'm moving away from the sonic grenades. If I'm fighting DE, I'm pulling them away from the quartz/cairn/fungi they drop so they're not buffed.

AFAIC, Trapdoor's Bifurcations are just a fancy Tree of Life. And if I can pull him out of that effect, I damn well should be able to.

See above.

So are they going to be making him immune to holds next? Because that does the exact same thing - remove the bifurcations from the equation - thus also "circumventing the primary encounter mechanic."

Same question to you. Should they then make him immune to holds? Is the fact my Controllers, Doms and several Blasters can hold him (think I can lump some Defenders in there, too) an "oversight" that needs correcting, as it also nullifies his "signature effect?"


If not, why not? Pulling away from the bifurcations accomplishes the same thing in a different way.

<--- plays shield simply because shield charge amuses me.

When Silver Mantis thinks it's a bit much, well....

Except you *don't* replace that power in IO form. Yes, the stealth IO is nice. However, it provides zero defense, you can't slot an IO with other IOs, and IIRC the values it gives aren't as good.

It has its own advantages and disadvantages (primarily being able to stack with other stealth powers,) but while it's an *option* to use for stealth, it's certainly not a *replacement* for the actual stealth powers.

/this.

With alts, lowbies, 20 50s, "Extra" doesn't exist yet. (Plus I work when most people run TFs.) I think the farthest along I am on anyone is a component (maybe two, on those I bought the Gr'ai Matter on) and one shard.

END draining itself gets gutted so many times in this game. Elec. blasters secondary effect? END drain/END return. But you don't see much of either. (The only time I've seen it do much of anything is with a group of Elec. blasters some friends and I run on occasion.)

Could have been useful in PVP - but it was neutered there as well, early on. Though /EA did have some nice built in TP Foe protection (for a while.) And I found it amusing to have my EM/EA brute cussed out as a "damn Stalker" more than once.

And of course mobs don't seem to care all that much about having their END drained, if you can't sustain it at 0. *shrug*

END drain in general needs looking at. But it *does* help my EA keep going.

Bolding mine.

Yes, if you're running something that's an AOE monster, it is. If you're not, well, INF doesn't flow quite as easily, barring a lucky drop - in which case the prices at the market work in your favor.

The question is "Why" there's that amount of INF. Some of it is due to exploits being farmed (which also ends up causing more demand - level 50, no IOs, wants "the best.") Some of it is likely STILL due to old 50s... I mean, really, before when you hit 50 you *could* keep playing, and many did - and after they spent, oh, 30 mill on SOs, then traded/bought/raided for HOs, then IOed out in I9 (and an occasional upgrade afterward,) they *still* have a lot of INF.

Others - like me - who have a large stable of alts don't tend to have "rich" characters. My highest tends to hover around 300 mil (not IOed out, but not lacking in them, certainly not purpled) - the INF goes to supplying bases and lowbies. Most of my others never see 100 mill, other than a lucky drop, and may not top 50 mill.


Everything in the game is available to everyone. It's just a question of what you want to spend - time, or INF. INF is, in this case, just a time accelerator. I can - if I chose to PVP (or farm my other account in a PVP zone) - get every single PVP IO out there. It'd take a long time to do so, yes. Alternately, I can spend 30 mill to 2 billion (or more "off market") to get them now.

Which is why there are alternate ways of getting that, such as the AE. Doesn't take long, and one AE arc will likely net you enough - via random common rolls - to get what you need. I haven't bought a Luck charm (pretty much the poster child for this, along with alchemical silver) since - well, since the market merge when I stocked up on them cheaply for my own use. (1500 inf each, stacks of 10? Haven't seen that in a long time.) Or, of course, just play at the appropriate levels.

But not the complete picture.

If the market were the *only* way to get the items? I'd agree, it would be pretty bad. But it isn't (not even for market teleporters.)

Just have to be willing to look at the alternatives.

Not to mention every market sale destroys some inf with the various fees.