M_I_Abrahms

Sorry about dragging up an old point, but I did finally realize one good reason to have the side switching missions in Praetoria, rather than Primal Earth. If the character switches in a neutral(ish) zone, then it's no more difficult for them to exit from the door on the right, or the one on the left (think RWZ). However, think about what happens should a character switch sides in Peregrine Island, or the Hollows? I'm not sure the Police Drones in Hero zones are different than the ones in PvP. If they are the same entity, then they will shoot player Villains on site. Same goes for Heroes and Arachnos Drones. Now consider that there's at least a pair of them at every zone entrance and tram/ferry.

Now it's possible that the dev might change the 'no enemy factions in Super Groups' rule, which means that they can at least get to safe transporters. Thing is, I seem to remember Drones at all the PvP zone doors, too. Of course, you could always use the RWZ or Pocket D porters, if your group has them. Or maybe go through the Midnighter's Club, if they've opened that door. Or at the VERY least hit the Pocket D porter...if they have the GvE pack on their account.

Unfortunately, even with all of these options available, and we don't even know for sure if they are all available in GR, there will be people who swap sides, who's only method of getting to their new home is through the mediporter.

Yup.

It's not the only Elseworlds where Superman is cast as the bad guy. Actually, reading further, I'm not seeing much difference between this Superman, and Tyrant whom you yourself trumpet as Evil.

@Scythus: You're right, my bad, but still a point that should be considered.

Actually, that wouldn't surprise me either. Thing is, that will only last until the Resistance starts talking about the horrible things that Tyrant and his crew do on a fairly regular basis. At some point, some Villains are going to sit back and think "Damn, that guy certainly sounds like he knows how to have a good time." Of course it will only help matters when turning traitor to the Resistance would involve handing over Resistance cell (of course, I doubt the players would get that option, but we're talking story time here) especially when their arch nemesis Cape-Guy has just joined up.

Oh, and Golden Girl? I did finally find a comic book character that would agree with the Mind Police, genetic cleansing, and punishment before the crime style of 'crime-fighting' which Tyrant uses. Meet Lock-Up. One of Batman's villains. So yeah, yet again, the only people interested in teaming with Tyrant are the bad guys.

EDIT: MORE evidence! Let's say you're right, and Tyrant is to lead people to darkness, and The Resistance to the light. Why would the character ever leave Praetoria? If he's just become a Villain, he's already in a pretty cushy position of power where he can abuse his new found love of Evil, and there hasn't been a single Player Character in the history of the game self-motivated to ever be a threat to Tyrant's Rule, so he's set for life.

And for the newly reformed Hero in the Resistance? Well, I highly doubt they are EVER going to have the Resistance win. Dethroning Tyrant means the story for their first paid expansion is over. For everyone. Until that time, leaving the Resistance just to go back home would be abandoning people in a desperate time of need.

Well, the choice is to obey the whims of a dictator of an armpit of an island chain and obey the whims of a dictator that rules an entire world. If you're going to obey a dictator you may as well pick the one that gets something done!

And now I've gotten past that mission...and I found something that creeps ME out. Pity it's spoiler worthy, or I'd quote it here. Friggin impressive.

You must have missed the discussion where not every player character in the Rogue Isles is a cold blooded killer. The people of the Rogue Isles are as varied as those in Paragon.

But you're right, only a few will be willing to take the final step to being a Hero simply because they are no longer looked upon with fear. A few more will take that step when they realize that being one of the good guys means they don't have to sleep in a cave, or in the sewers. A few more will realize that being the 'good guys' is the greatest scam ever, some of these people actually give you money regularly and sometimes you don't even have to worry about being shot at. A few more will be shown kindness for the first time in their lives, and the shock of it will make them question what they've been doing with their lives. A few more will realize that the good guys really ARE the winning side.

And a few will be evil enough that they will never take that step. And they are the Cold blooded killers.

Show me where the logic fails, then.

In other words, a Hero joins the Resistance and starts to realize that everything goes smoother without the restrictions from the FBSA. He begins to work outside the law, and becomes a Vigilante. Every law he breaks is just makes the next one easier, until he is more concerned with the thrill of the crime than the good he could be doing. At that point he says "Screw these Resistance Losers, I'm going to the Isles!" and is now a Villain.

Meanwhile, the Villains have flocked to Tyrant. He has the power that Recluse never could have. Under the new regime they are not only free to crush hope and kill, some times they are even told to do so! Yet the oddest things happen, when that Villain is told to crush some do-good Hero types running around with that Resistance thing...the people cheer him. They do not run away. Instead they praise him for upholding the peace. The Villain then begins to realize that it's not that bad a feeling, and doesn't mind working with the Heroes quite as much. He then becomes a Rogue (horrible name for the faction, but I guess it had to go somewhere) But it's not long before the Rogue realizes that people are cheering for him even though his orders are still horrible. He starts to feel bad for what he is doing, and what he has done. This is when he says "Screw this, I'm going to see what tin face has to offer, maybe I can go straight." And thus has joined the Heroes.

Hence why they leave Tyrant once they do make the final transition and go work with Statesman.

"Come for the soul crushing and murder, stay for the good feeling when civilians cheer your efforts to keep the peace."

Yup.

I have said this a couple of times already, but I am not talking about Praetorian characters. Yes, your comments about someone born and raised in Praetoria are 100% true, but the issue I had from day one concerns the Primal earth Heroes who come to Praetoria to engage in the side switching mechanic. They need to have a reason to join the side that will lead them to darkness, and I truly believed it would be Tyrant that would do that. However, now I realize that it will be the Resistance who is much more likely to show the Heroes what committing crime is like, even though it will be crime 'for a good reason', the destruction of Tyrant's rule.

Is this what you truly believe? Behind the Hero rhetoric and simplistic responses, do you really believe that sacrifice is the way of peace? That slaughtering entire cities is worth it for some nebulous 'protection' of the world as a whole. I don't. You may not be able to save everyone, but that doesn't mean you don't try.

There is nothing in this world, not even peace that is worth sacrificing even one life, let alone thousands. Much less millions. There is no crime so vile that it would be acceptable to kill hundreds because one may commit that crime. And there is no amount of 'security that is worth the absolute removal of rights that is mind **** by Mother Mayhem. There is no place for Heroes in Tyrant's evil empire. And I've discovered that that's not a bad thing.

Well, they don't really have to if they do intend on having the Resistances good intentions pave your road to hell.

You have a point when I say they aren't against the law, they just believe that the law fails to provide justice. And in this case, Tyrant's rule is just adding more Fail, the additional laws are not making it any easier to punish criminals, but it is giving them the ability to punish the innocent. For much of the law we've seen we're looking at punishment before the crime.

A price no Hero would pay. No matter what, no harm shall fall to the innocent.

Up until this thread I was thinking that Tyrant would lead us unto evil. But looking back that just makes no sense. All it would take is the first mission to kidnap and 'disappear' one person who has committed no crime what so ever, and anyone even approaching decent would punch his superior in the face and jump sides. It doesn't matter what kind of person they are, anyone who would harm the innocent was NEVER A HERO TO BEGIN WITH.

But the Resistance, here's where it gets interesting. They may call it a 'Supply run' but it's still robbery. They may call it 'demoralizing the populous' but it's still beating up police, regardless of the fact that these cops would have no problem killing the people they're supposed to be protecting. They may call it 'disabling Utopian propaganda' but it's still a Mayhem Mission. It's giving a Hero the chance to see how the other side lives. In the Resistance, you ARE breaking the law.

Vigilante: Someone who illegally punishes someone for perceived offenses

These are people that go AGAINST the law to bring what they see as justice, and that is why Vigilantes would be even less likely to work with Tyrant than the Hero types. When someone thinks the law is in the wrong, MORE law is not the answer they think of. When you have a group of Vigilantes, it's usually called a lynch mob! And which side in Praetoria is against the current legal structure?

I've been thinking Good versus Evil, when I should be thinking Law versus Chaos.

Oh, there's a mystery all right. The mystery of how a person can look at two people, one who's actions have shown that he has little regard for the lives of humanity as a whole, and one who's entire villainous career is a vengeance ploy against a single hero, and decide that the mass murderer is the lesser evil.

The Rogue Isles actually has more freedom and more protections for its citizens, yet TYRANT is the better choice?

Yes, the point is that Praetoria is where your characters will face the moral choices that will cause them to change their alignment. And if it is something that can be done on Primal Earth, then why did we need to pull story resources out of the last several Issues for what amounts to be nothing more than an alternate starting zone when the entire Resistance storyline could have just as easily taken place in the Isles?

If there's no association between the Side Switching and the Praetorian organizations, then why have it in Praetoria at all?