Logarithm

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anything /nrg or /electric will detoggle and mez me in 1 hit everytime

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That's not the blaster's fault.

It's yours.

Where is your mez protection? If you're not /SR or /nin you need a non-toggle buff.

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Yeah, GI WASN'T NERFED. We just didn't know how it worked. As _Castle_ said, it's been around ever since stealth suppression... which I imagine is a long time ago.

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Wow, I learned something new today.

I may be the only person on Virtue who didn't know how GI worked after the stealth change..

Where was my memo?!?





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For the longest time, I was under the impression that it only supressed after an attack - like hide and stealth.

You can't blame me for not noticing - It needs to be reapplied so often, regardless.

I have no doubt adjusting Placate would tank a solo stalker's Kill-to-Death ratio.

I'm not clear how it would effect stalkers working in an organized team(Heck, when I work in a team of stalkers, I almost never find myself using it).

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I don't think that you understand how the cap works. Lets say there is a Scrapper in RV who is running Tactics, FA, and has 23 Clear Mind Buffs active. You run by running Hide, Stealth, and one Grant Invis active. The Scrapper will see you from a whopping 10 feet away.

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Are you sure about this? The way I understood it, it would be 510 feet. There's a difference of 10 between the -perception and +perception caps, but everyone starts out with a sight range of 500. If the caps all but cancel each other out, a player will still be left with the base value, right?

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Visit Peritus's Guide. Take a look at Iakona's tables. My PvP experiences back up their observations - I've worked at stalker teams at the stealth cap more than once.

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teams of them will be able to gank whole teams risk free though.

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That's already the case in Siren's and BB with teams of 3 spines/ stalkers.

It's nuts - 3 spines/SR stalkers end PvP - it just becomes a bounty-harvest for the team. You come to expect no resistance. And the squishy heroes aren't even aware that the PvP has stopped, because they're only dying one-at-a-time and they may even have superior numbers. It gets to the point where you deliberately leave the Stormie alive, to keep the heroes from scattering - to keep them thinking they have some protection.

They(the squishies) only live until the stalker trio chooses to kill them. They don't have the perception to see them. They don't have the means to stop them. It's a joke.

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That said, whole teams of stalkers will not be that common.

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Does that even matter? 3 spines/ stalkers don't need a corruptor, brute, dominator, or MM. Go make a stalker. What do you lose in PvP? What's the trade-off?

Nothing.

You have 100% invisibility past 10 feet.
100% defense to all.
100% range debuff to all enemies(with stacked GIs).
And the burst damage to kill 3 of 5 ATs instantly.

Teams of three Spines/ stalkers aren't that common yet in BB and SC - and they won't be - not with stalkers getting snipes.

Everybody becomes a Spine/ in RV.

Where does that leave brutes, MMs, and Doms?

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As soon as the placate nerf comes into play wiht the GI nerf in PvP then i think everything will be fine FTMP

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I don't understand:

Stealth and Grant Invis already supressed after AS. The change in mechanics isn't so much a nerf as it is an extension of something we've already dealt with perfectly well so far.

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i thought they already did, what with the buffbots in the hospital spamming CM and the like...

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Blasters start at a disadvantage. Without sufficient perception, blasters are stuck playing 'Where's Waldo', as waldo is staring back at them playing 'Stab You in the Face'.

With and emp/, blasters are given the tools to play the same game that stalkers are(the mez protection is only a side-effect). Of course, teamed stalkers are allowed to debuff all the blaster's primary attacks to melee range.

That's what we call balance!

/e Logarithm plays "Camptown Races" for the Stalker-Nostradamus on his violin, because he still hasn't learned any sad songs yet.

God willing, I'll know "My Humps" by the end of the month - as far as sad, sad songs go, that takes the cake.

You can still turn to power pools and teamwork for 100% immunity to all attacks/debuffs/controls outside of 10 feet. Patron powers provide stalkers with very well-rounded builds. Compared to other archetypes, we made out like bandits.

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Why not force them to adapt to our stealth, as they already have been?

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It's clear that the devs took that approach on some level, and were comfortable letting the PvP metagame evolve in this manner for a while.

However, balancing all of PvP for teams by making one archetype infinitely soloable and deadly by default will eventually come back to bite you in the leg. It's certainly no fun for the non-stalker villain archetypes that are along for the ride.

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This nerf will just increase the other side's ability to gank us as a team, which I do not regard as a good thing.

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It absolutely will(in a very, very minor way). And it is a good thing.

Why? because a solo stalker can counter that with teamwork.

Why is it acceptable for all non-stalkers(teamed or solo) to have to alter their playstyle to avoid ganking by solo stalkers, but unacceptable for a solo stalker to team to avoid ganking by an entire opposing team?


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Still, this is an unnecessary nerf; it takes TONS of work to get away after killing.

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Teleporting vertically twice is not tons of work. Teamed stalkers don't have to worry about self-protection until after they've earned their bounty. The entire archetype has only been exposed to half of PvP so far. The easier half.

I'm much more concerned about the ranged mezzes they have access to.

It was a hole in their build that only a Dominator/corruptor/MM could fill.

Stalkers become very well-rounded in the 40+ game.

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Just to parse Castle's response, though... does that mean that GI has to be reapplied every time someone attacks?

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To get teh Stealth benefit, yes.

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[censored] is the point of Grant Invis if I have to keep recast it then

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If you can't see the point to 100% immunity to all toggled attacks, debuffs, and controls, and guaranteed total invisibility when you're 11 feet from an opponent....

You CRAZY!!!!

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Ok I am going to say it and I am going to be flamed.

IT IS EACH AND EVERY SINGLE STALKERS FAULT THIS HAPPENED.

I have been saying from beta if the stalker comunity sits back and let the people spewing propaganda about this AT with no voice of reason they would win. So you all set back and flamed me every time I said it and now its going to happen so thanks for letting uninformed BS spewing toolboxs distroy our AT because you were too busy flaming me when i told you this would happen.


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You never once predicted that stalkers would get fantastically awesome Patron Powers relative to many other villain archetypes.



I know - I save most of your posts in notepad.
(I'm a gibberish fanboy, what can I say )

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Why not leave Placate as-is for PVP but just add a to-hit check?

NOTE: that's a to-hit check ONLY for PVP. Leave 100% as-is for PVE.

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It would be silly to think the devs haven't considered that.
Who knows what changes will come marching out of left field when i7 notes are posted? Maybe they will.

That's one of those suggestions where the devs' balance vision guides the direction in which they take the archetype. Where we probably don't have any influence - without a very well-reasoned, detailed, far-reaching explaination of why they would need to do it for the sake of PvP balance as a whole.

In the end, the caps are still the same.

The very, very worst this will do is shift the ideal villain PvP team from 3 stalkers to 4 stalkers. **Edit: After an AS, the grant invis's would be supressed. Booooo! thoughtless posting**

And I doubt it will even do that. It seems like a weak, targeted increase to risk for soloing stalkers.

More on topic:

It's a PvP-only change, and I'm not really sure how deeply it will effect my EM/EA's playstyle.

I know it won't effect my Spine/SRs at all.

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Whenever I'm attacking a team , I usually get beat down right away. Stalkers always get the most hero aggro. Even with placate, attacking a team that has half a brain and surviving is tough.

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Seriously though, what do you guys think?

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Seriously?

I think you'd have much better luck working with a team - and have your team attack another team.

I think solo stalkers attacking teams successfully(that is, scoring kills and surviving an escape) is all too common, and advocates a nerf to the archetype in a more meaningful way than the plethora of flame-filled threads on the subject.

It should be noted this is new to the test server - it isn't going live and is still subject to change.

**Edit: Removed quote - it's in the OP.**

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Simple fix, IMO...

NO MORE DETOGGLING MEZ PROTECTION.

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Team....

Team for non-toggle mez protection buffs.....

And go give an overconfident blaster a very unexpected fight.

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So, I've been reading around the tanker forums, get a grasp on how things will be. And I've stumbled upon a couple of sayings that there will be no more detoggling.

First, I was wondering if this was true.

Second, I was wondering if it was just Brawl, or all of them.

And third, if it is true, I think its a huge problem. The only way I can beat a BRUTE is through detoggling him. And I detoggle him through Brawl. Wait until Unyielding or wahtever hes using goes down, then hit him with IS. All toggles go down, I pummel him to death.

Granted, this is a huge OK for all tanks, because this is your biggest weak point. But its also the way for many AT's to beat you, and they cant without it.

And although tanks damage isnt te best (Aside from SS), it still can kill quite a few AT's, Brute vs. Tank would be tough. But Tanks still can dish out some insane damage with PVP specced.

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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.

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Are the issues that made toggle dropping on this scale seem like a good idea going away too, or is this a tacit passing of the 'Stupid Stick' to a different archetype for an issue?


Or should I just post a "when will i7 be on test?" thread in the training room like everyone else, wet myself with impatience, then finally test it out myself when it arrives?

Did you know.....

that sprint used to come with a 'heavy breathing' sound effect that, though appropriate for someone running, was enough to drive you crazy.

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I would like to see some evidence of that, since it goes against all of the experience and testing that I have done. Also, CM and Clarity's +PER do stack, or at least Clarity's does, which is all I have access to test with. I had been told that CM==Clarity, but its possible that isn't accurate. Is that statement based on testing?

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The +perception from CM does stack, even if the CM is cast from the same player.

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Except on NPC mobs - CM grants them no +perception.

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It would also make it unique in that all other melee powers only check range once, so even if your target is running, you will still land the attack, no matter how far away they get

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Here's a wacky idea: Why not give every uninterruptible melee attack 2 range checks in PvP? One done at the time the power is clicked(of course), and one done at the end of the power's animation. Then, compare the distance of the second check to the meleers initial point of activation.

Why? Right now my Super-speeding tank can stretch KO Blow's range to 80 feet in PvP(and in PvE, too, actually - though there's no reason to do it there). It's profoundly unfair that my initial melee attack(and any following unsupressed melee attacks I make) can get most of the benefits of a ranged power, yet my character was balanced around the risks of melee combat, with his melee-level defenses and mez protection.

Yes, server latency(in concert with the inertia of lightning-fast travel powers) is the root of the issue, but that's not exactly targettable directly.

Why not put a leash on melee powers in PvP? if the meleer travels more than 30 feet(or some other arbitrary, fair distance) between the activation of his power, and the power connecting - odds are it was a deliberate attempt to approximate the safety of a ranged attack. Isn't that an exploit worth fixing? Melee powers necessarily entail the risk of melee-retaliation for the duration of their activation time, but 'stretching' its range reduces that risk to a tenth of a second.


Note: this is not suggesting that the attack fail if the target of the attack leaves melee range - The meleer put himself at risk entering melee, and deserves to have his attack execute whether or not his opponent decided to run.

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Jonyu, poz and Positron are working on an 'Invention' system, which branched off of the Skill System work. The 'Salvage' system used in bases is an offshoot of the skills system design as well.

Unfortunately, I don't think anything more in depth than that is scheduled at this time.

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YES!!!

Robot-Penguin Warrior temp power, Here I Come!!

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With this, it would be -more- likely that you'd end up with exactly 1% hit points, and therefore a full defiance bar. Your next shot is likely to be devastating (and then you die).

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Only if the server 'tics' after the damage is dealt to you, but before you click your counterattack (before you die).

Otherwise, your defiance bar remains woefully empty.



**EDIT: Your, not You're.......for shame **

No single character should be able to deal enough damage to defeat an opposing player faster than the slowest animating targeted heal in the game.


....if we're still idealizing a PvP balanced around teams.