Local_Man

So far, I have Ice/Energy Melee and Ice/Ice Tanks at 50. I do NOT recommend Enegy Melee -- since it was nerfed a while back, it is really pretty poor.

Personally I really like Ice/Ice. Not exactly high damage, but the combo of Ice Patch with Chilling Embrace and Energy Absorbtion, and Frozen Touch as a high damage/Hold makes this Tank into a Tanker/Controller, which is great on teams and a premier aggro gatherer. I run around to gather a little aggro, then just as they all bunch up on me, I hit Ice Patch-Energy Absorbtion-Build Up-Frozen Aura. I tell the team to unleash their AoEs as soon as they see Ice Patch. With the Ice APP, I can stack Ice Holds on bosses.

Fire Melee would be very good with Ice Armor. You get two PB AoE attacks (Combustion and Fire Sword Circle) and a cone attack. Fire has no mitigation, but it is fairly easy to get an Ice Tank to the softcap. Any set with a good amount of AoE will be effective since Ice Armor has the best taunt aura in the game. Titan Weapons will probably be good if you like the set, as it has more AoE than most melee sets (but the slowness bugs me). Electric Melee will be good with its two regular AoEs, a chaining attack and a narrow cone.

Axe is . . . ok. My first tank was an Invul/Axe, and Axe has 100% Lethal Damage. Any foe who highly resists Lethal, and your damage is pitiful. The knockdown in Axe is nice and has a fun feel to it. It has one PB AoE, one wide cone and one of those really narrow cones. Mace probably has a little more AoE, and the Smashing damage in Mace is better in the later game against Robots.

People in this forum are used to thinking in terms of IO sets, but I see you didn't mention IO sets. I'm going to assume that you are operating on SOs. My first tank was an Invul/Axe which I leveled up long before IO sets were added to the game.

Your Toggle powers should only have 4 slots in them -- Temp Invuln and Unyielding should have 3 Resist and one Endurance Reduction. Invincibility should have 3 Defense, one EndRdx -- if you have spare slots later, you can add two To Hit Buff. The typed Resistance auto powers (Resist Physical, Energies and Elements) should only have three slots of Resist Damage. (Personally, I would skip Elements unless you have nothing else to take -- The Fighting Pool's Boxing, Tough and Weave are good additions to this build.) Dull Pain should have 5-6 slots of Heal and Recharge. Taunt only needs a Recharge, but can have Taunt Duration added if you have spare slots. On an SO build for Invul/Axe, I would take Unstoppable but only use a Recharge in the default slot.

As for Battle Axe, your standard slotting for the attacks should be 1 Acc, 3 Dam, 1 EndRdx, 1 Rech. Axe really needs all of that. Axe really benefits from IO sets, which can give you higher enhancement of all of those elements of Accuracy, Endurance Reduction and Recharge.

Make sure you have 3 EndMod in Stamina, as Invul/Axe is pretty demanding on Endurance. I would suggest 3 Heal in Health. The Regen helps you recover faster.

Mostly it is a result of history of the game. Much of the Blueside content was written long before CoV and a lot of the changes in the game. Game design in the early game didn't include EBs. Many missions were designed to only be for teams, and AVs showed up only in Team-focused missions. By the time CoV came along, there were a lot of changes in the game and the Developers learned a lot of lessons how to make better missions when the Redside missions were written. The newer Blueside content also incorporates those lessons and thus the newer content is generally better.

However, there are several reasons you get a lot more people Blueside. Some people play a Super Hero game to be heroic, and they just don't like playing villains. Some people don't like the depressing look and content Redside. Some people like the larger amount of content Blueside. And some people play Blueside because it is easier to find people blueside.

The later content

On my Stone/Fire, I used Kin Combats and a few other sets to get to the S/L defense cap in Rock armor. This lets me stay out of Granite most of the time, so I don't suffer the -Recharge and -Damage effects of Granite. Anytime he starts to take significant damage, I pop into Granite. However, most of the time, I can stay out of Granite.

I'm also running a Stone/Titan tank, Just hit level 25 tonight, so it will be a while before I'm ready for an end-game build. I prefer to wait on the decisions until I know how the sets perform. I suspect that I will want to also build for S/L defense cap like my Stone/Fire.

Check for powers with no Recharge slotted, and you should see some Recharge buff. Your powers that are already fully slotted for Recharge will only see a significant increase from the tier 3 and 4. That's where the Alpha slot will exceed ED caps.

The recharge bonus will NOT show up as Global Recharge.

It is far easier to make the perma-PA build now than when I first made it. The key is . . . Hero merits. An Ill/Rad can zip through Tip Missions amazingly fast, and the Who Will Die missions are pretty easy, too. You can get those expensive LotG Recharge and the Baz Gaze easily with Hero Merits, and then you can sell expensive ones (Level 20 Miracle procs, LotG Recharge, or Kinetic Combat) to get all the other IOs you need.

Even better is learning how to play the market. I did it to get one of my characters up to 2 bil (most of which I have since spent). Personally I enjoy doing missions more than marketeering, but there no question that you can earn a lot fairly quickly by playing the market.

You might want to take a look at my Ill/Rad guide for some suggestions on how to increase that Recharge. It also has a lot of strategy suggestions and I even have a discusion on options for the Alpha Slot.

There is no "absolute" answer -- it depends on what your character needs. Recharge is the most important to get PA and other powers up as soon as possible. Spiritual is the first choice unless you already have enough Recharge, but Agility is worth considering. After that, I'd probably look at Cardiac.

I use Celerity Stealth in Super Speed for many of my characters, and never had that problem.

Personally, I like Super Speed on my Stormies. Super Speed + Steamy Mist = Full invisibility. Plus SS is great for quick positioning. With SS, I can run around groups of foes with Hurricane on, gathering them up into tighter groups. It is easy and quick to adjust to movement changes. Super Speed lets me run in fast and invisible to get in just the right position to fire off Seeds or Lightning Storm.

As for Snow Storm, I like to keep it, but it is definitely a situational power. I use it tons on an ITF, where other forms of control are mostly worthless. It is great on a Katie Hannon TF to knock all of those bloody witches out of the air. I often throw it on AVs and other tough targets . . . mostly to affect the lower level foes in the area with its Slow and -Regen. It only has a fairly small effect on AV itself, but has a big effect on the other foes in the area.

<sigh> Did you actually read what I said rather than create your own fabrication of what I said? Once again, your "points" are misrepresentations. I guess you made your Straw Man and you are going to stick to it, by Deity!

All I have ever said is that making a Defensive build involves trade-offs, and with Controllers, there are other options. Controllers can be very effective without building for Defense by building to maximize control, buffs/debuffs and other powers. Defense is an option, not a necessity. I have never said Defense is wrong or flawed or anything else. Those are all your fabrications.

OK, 'nuff said on this subject before I fall into the trap which you have by making it into personal attacks. This has been a bad enough threadjack.

Well, well, somebody got a little snippy. And bordering on being insulting. I was addressing an opinion by stating my own opinion. Nothing in my post (which wasn't even directed at you) was mocking, unlike your response. If you disagree, that's fine but I see no reason to turn this into a group of insults.

The problem I have with your response is (a) you took statements out of context of the post as a whole, (b) you mischaracterized what I said, and (c) you clearly misunderstood the tone and intention of my post. I try pretty hard to be even and fair in my recommendations. Most of the time, I explain things in terms of what I would do rather than what anyone else should do and I try to recognize when there are different opinions. I find it pretty frustrating when somebody distorts my statements.

Some folks seem to think that a character without Defense if down right bad. Leviathin's post made it appear that building for Defense was ALWAYS the best option. Mental Maden and I both assert that you can have a great character without building for Defense, and that there are trade-offs for building for Defense. We acknowledge that Defense is an option, but not a necessity. (Compare that to, say, an Ice Tank, where building for Defense is pretty essential.)

Your first "quote" from me took only a part of a sentence, which did not explain the entire point. In fact, the entire paragraph makes a general point that it is a good idea for a player to learn how to play his character without defense first, so he gets a good idea about the various powers in the set and options on other powers before making the choices and sacrifices needed for a defensive build. My statement was intended to let potential players know that there are options other than just building for Defense. Then your first "Local Myth" mischaracterized what I said in such a way that you attributed to me a statement with which I disagree. I would consider what you posted to be a prime example of a "straw man argument."

There is no single "proper" way to play a character. Some playstyles are more effective solo while others are more effective on some teams, and others are more effective on other kinds of teams. Controllers were originally designed to operate effectively without Defense (with a few exceptions). That original design has been modified quite a bit by IO sets.

Then your "explanation" actually supported my original point . . . that the player should learn to play the character without Defense first rather than expecting (and focusing) on Defense as the player levels up . . . because you won't get that high defense until the 40's or at 50. I'm suggesting to hold off on making the decision on whether to build for Defense until you have enough experience with the character to know if you need it.

Your second "Local Myth" again mischaracterizes what I said. I never said that a defensive build requires poor power selection. I said that there were trade-offs, which is clearly true. A defensive build may not be able to fit in Recall Friend, or Superspeed with a Stealth IO for invisibility, or the medicine pool. If a Mind/Time builds for Defense, he will most likely skip Telekinesis, which I would agree is skippable . . . except that some people actually LIKE the power. But a player who expects to build for Defense from the beginning may know that he won't have room for the power so he may never try it. I see a lot of people skip confuse powers due to a lot of differing opinions, and a Defensive build may find Confuse skippable when I (and many others) consider Confuse to be one of the better powers in the Mind set. On the other hand, some people try out Confuse and don't like it. My point goes back to that first entire paragraph . . . try out the character and the various powers without Defense before making the committment to a Defensive build . . . you may find that you don't need a defensive build.

Mischaracterized "Local Myth" #3: Where did I say the Fighting Pool was necessary? I said "If I take the Fighting Pool . . . " as an example of how there are trade-offs. While it is pretty common for Defensive build to take the Fighting Pool, it is certainly not necessary for some builds, like a */Time.

Mischaracterized "Local Myth" #4: This one is pretty obvious -- I said that you have to give up Recharge OR SOME OTHER BENEFIT. You conveniently left that last part out. Sure, there are sets that can get good Recharge and Defense, but that means that there are fewer slots for slotting other powers or for slotting procs or something else. I have seen some Ill/Rad builds with Perma-PA and capped Defense . . . but all of those builds gave up other stuff that I don't feel is worth giving up. Most of the time, an IO build needs to focus on one aspect -- it is hard (but not impossible) to build for two without gimping the build.

Mischaracterized "Local Myth" #5: I never said that all teams need tanks. I said that a tank's job is to take aggro . . . do you dispute that statement?? I do feel that Tanks are usually a benefit to a team, but I have been on plenty of teams with no tank or a really bad, worthless tank that handled missions fine. One easy example? Mental Maden used to run "All Controller" TFs most weekends.

Mischaracterized "Local Myth" #5 and #6: Basic Logic -- "If A then B" does not equal "A is true." While it is true that SOME PEOPLE with Defensive builds have boasted about how they can tank, I never said Defensive build always do anything. I'm sure many people with Defensive builds play their characters quite well and control effectively -- I would assume that someone who has put that much effort into a great build actually CAN play the character well. I won't address how completely wrong your mischaracterizations of what I said were.

Mischaracterized "Local Myth" #7: This statement is pretty offensive to me because I have NEVER suggested that my way is the only way. I have always tried to show that there are varying opinions, and I often point out that others disagree with me. I often acknowledge the valid positions of others and different opinions. In fact, if you read my entire post, the point of it is to say that Defense is a valid choice, but not the only choice. See the last sentence.

Mischaracterized "Local Myth" #8: Uh, where did I say anything in my post about "challenge?" Can you point it out to me?? My statement was intended to suggest that IOs can be used to build a character that is far more powerful than intended in the original game design, and that a player might want to learn how to play the character based upon that original design before making the choices for an end-game build. To suggest that I don't understand how people like to use IO builds as a part of the game is pretty ignorant of my history of posting in this forum.

On the last statement that you ridiculed, I probably should have said "I don't accept the argument that you can get plenty of Defense AND be well slotted for Recharge or some other benefit." But then, I did say it earlier in the post, and only because you quoted one sentence out of context does it merit correction.

Before you accuse someone else of being a "straw man," maybe you should pull the bale of straw out of your own eye? I find it rather ironic that that you are calling ME a "straw man" when your arguments fit the definition quite well:

SI actually has better invisibility that Arctic Fog, even than Arctic Fog with a stealth IO or Super Speed added. It goes farther over the stealth cap, so some foes with +perception will still not see you until you get pretty close. So Arctic Fog is clearly not superior invisibility. SI also offers 4.5% Defense (compared to 3.75% for the Fog), but half of SI's defense will suppress when you attack.

However, the Fog does offer a PB AoE aura to let you share Defense and some Resistance to Fire, Cold and Energy with others near you, and the Defense does not suppress. So it really depends on what you consider to be "superior." Arguably, SI is better for solo.

Personally, I like Snow Storm. Not only is it a strong Slow, but the -Recharge can really have an effect. And it is a great way to knock Flyers out of the air. I find Frostworks to be pretty meh, and it is almost worthless solo.

Valid point , , , but that 2% can sometimes make a difference. More importantly, the +Regen might be helpful. But I agree that he may be able to find better use for those slots.

Flash has its uses for control, and it is the only way Illusion has to set up AoE Containment. If you want to do some AoE damage from your APP powerset, then Flash is worth taking.

The biggest problem I have with Mace is the lack of a fast-recharging single target blast. The Blind-SW-Blast-SW attack chain really adds a lot of damage for the reasons explained in my Ill/Rad guide.

If you are slotting procs, the accuracy in Sleet (and Freezing Rain) will help the procs hit with the first raindrops. Then it will be 10 sec before the procs have a chance to hit again. Some people like to slot accuracy to improve the chance for the first set of procs to hit.

My Ill/TA is NOT a perma-PA build. He's on a secondary server and I just didn't want to invest the time and expense of purpling out a character I don't play all that often. I could sacrifice a few utility powers to get more places for Recharge sets, and invest in the purple damage sets, but I'd rather do that on some other characters. He does have the purple Confuse and Sleep sets because those were fairly cheap.

I'm kind of fond of his name: I wanted a character name that combined Illusion and Trick Arrow. Illusion can be a form of entertainment . . . TA is done with Bow and Arrow . . . Bow & Entertainer . . . so the name "Beau Jester" came to me. For those of you who aren't familiar with classics, "Beau Geste" is a famous book and movie about three brothers who joined the French Foreign Legion. So "Beau Jester" was an entertainer of the troops for the French Foreign Legion, using his trick arrow act to create illusions and magic tricks. Because they are tricks, that explains his Tech origin. He was made long before a Jester costume was available in the game, but proudly wore that costume as soon as it became available.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Beau Jester: Level 50 Technology Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(3), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(7), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(9), HO:Nucle(17), Dmg-I(27)
Level 1: Entangling Arrow -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Spectral Wounds -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(3), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Decim-Build%(17), HO:Nucle(34)
Level 4: Deceive -- CoPers-Conf/Rchg(A), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(7), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(11), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(29), CoPers-Conf%(34)
Level 6: Glue Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), ImpSwft-Dam%(50)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(9), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(11), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), RedFtn-Def(43), RedFtn-EndRdx(46)
Level 10: Ice Arrow -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(31), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(31), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(34)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Fly -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Poison Gas Arrow -- FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(A), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(37), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(40), FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(40), FtnHyp-Plct%(40)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(19), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(21), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(21), S'bndAl-Build%(23)
Level 20: Acid Arrow -- HO:Lyso(A), Achilles-ResDeb%(23), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg(25), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(25), LdyGrey-%Dam(50), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 22: Hover -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A)
Level 24: Aid Other -- Heal-I(A)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- Acc-I(A)
Level 28: Disruption Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 30: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal(31), Numna-Heal/Rchg(46)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(A), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), HO:Nucle(48)
Level 35: Oil Slick Arrow -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(36), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36), LdyGrey-%Dam(37), Dmg-I(37)
Level 38: EMP Arrow -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(39), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(39), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(39)
Level 41: Fire Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(42), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Dam%(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Rise of the Phoenix -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def(A)
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
------------
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(27), Mrcl-Rcvry+(48)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(15), EndMod-I(15)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run

The build already has 5 sets with 6.25% Recharge, so the Unspeakable Terror was used. Glympse can't be added unless one of those 6.25% Recharge sets can be traded out.