Arctic Air vs. Shiver

This is on an Ice/Storm troller. I am in a debate about which of these to use.

Arctic Air Pros:
Always on
Slotted for 3 damage procs does ambient pulse damage
Pulsing confusion helps
-Stealth to enemies
Floors recharge to hard cap on enemies with use of nearly any other power in the set

Cons:
Drains endurance quickly, even with 3 IO endurance slotted
Requires to be in point blank range, which is dangerous for trollers
Requires a lot of slotting to be effective.
Draws aggro when I don't want it to.


Shiver Pros:
Floors recharge by itself
Requires very few slots
Good range and ease of useage.

Cons:
Does nothing else but slow movement and recharge
Wears off very quickly



What I generally do is use either of these powers in combination with Freezing Rain (when Ice slick isn't available) or along with Frost Bite to immobilize the group and hard cap their recharge so they spend most of the time standing around looking stupid while I pick them off. Currently, I am having both a bit of an endurance problem on my troller, and a bit of a "getting killed too often" problem, and I assume that Arctic Air, for all it's awesomeness, is to blame. But, I can't decide whether or not I should replace it with Shiver, which is safer but does very little for a comparatively short amount of time.

Does anyone have any opinions on this? Has anyone been in a similar dilemma and found a way out? Tune in next time, when some forumer provides an answer!

I haven't played my Ice/Storm in 3 or 4 years, and I never PvE'd with it much, so I may be wrong. But it seems like a con of Arctic Air would also be Hurricane pushing everyone out of it's effect radius (or does AA have a bigger radius?).

They both have a 25 foot radius.

However... I almost never use them together. Hurricane in all its power has, in my experience, generally gotten on the nerves of my teammates who end up missing their AoE's and have to chase down enemies or in worst cases gets enemies stuck in walls. After all, Ice/Storm has plenty of ways to mezz an entire group into submission that doesn't involve scattering and throwing them around (ice slick + freezing rain's hilarious knockdown combination, Immobilize + -Recharge combination, Mass Hold + -Recharge). Due to the above and also due to the massive endurance drain of Hurricane, I only use it in emergencies and situations where the above control methods don't work (mostly against AVs).


One advantage to Shiver is that I can use Hurricane for defense while I use shiver at a distance to decrease recharge. This will keep my endurance drain about the same (which is currently too much) but gives me more defense.

Unless you only ever solo, you want Arctic Air. You're aren't going to be doing much perma-caning on teams.

FWIW I don't consider Arctic Air "point blank" range. It is more like pole range. If enemies are closer than 10 ft you are probably too close.

Note one potential synergy with AA and Hurricane is to tap Hurricane on and off quickly rather than leave it turned on all the time. This could push enemies back just a couple of feet. Especially useful if they are close to you and immobilized.

Shiver has a long animation time and a short duration. Moreover the set bonus options for it are pretty poor. I consider it a throwaway power if I have open slots, but usually I can find something better. IMO even pool powers are often better.

On my Ice/Storm, I actually have both Arctic Air and Shiver and Snow Storm. I leveled up with Arctic Air and Snow Storm, than added Shiver with my respec after inherent Stamina was added. (I have lots of experience with Shiver from my Ice/Ice Blaster.)

In my opinion, Arctic Air is far superior . . . but it should be slotted for capped Confuse and lots of EndRdx, then the Contagious Confusion proc at level 50. Damage procs are far, far less important. Leveling up, Arctic Air seems to mitigate about 60-75% of the damage done to my melee teammates. Then the Contagiousl Confusion proc seems to make the power a lot more effective.

Leveling up, I used Snow Storm and AA. Now that I have all three, I use Shiver periodically, mostly because I have it. It is probably a little bit more useful than Snow Storm at times, and Snow Storm is more effective at other times.

I feel that my Ice/Storm is best played in melee, but not for taking the alpha strike. My playstyle with my Ice/Storm is to let the melee guys run in, then throw an Ice Slick and/or Freezing Rain underneath them and run in with AA and Steamy running. The Melee guys barely take any damage when I'm in there. I will then throw out Lightning Storm and then I pick foes to take down with Block of Ice, Chilblain (slotted for damage) and Air Sup. I can solo with him as well, but I often let Jack draw the Alpha, and then use my controls, debuffs and attacks.

Hurricane is a very situational power on my Ice/Storm. I have it bound to a button on my mouse so I can quickly toggle it on and off. I mostly use it for positioning and a little bit of debuffing, but it is not uncommon for me to not use it at all on some teams. Still, Hurricane is a great panic button, so there have been lots of times that it has saved my tail. I use it more solo than on teams.

Arctic Air is wonderful. Shiver is . . . OK.

Arctic Air has higher potential than shiver, and higher cost both in slots required and endredux. Look long and hard at your build, see if you can muster up those costs. If not Shiver is a fine one slot wonder that does its job perfectly, even if its job is painfully simple.

One of the things I have discovered at the lower levels, is I can save a meleer's bacon with it many times I have jumped in while a tank is red lining and the confusion it brings will pull the heat off of 'em letting them recover.

One more thing to remember about Shiver in a high-end build is that you will probably be relying on Ice Slick less and Frostbite more. A couple of casts of Frostbite do the same thing as Shiver, more or less, but deliver proc damage and (more importantly) Interface procs and -kb that Storm uses alongside Tornado and Lightning Storm.

Moreover, watch for Shiver if you take Cardiac as your alpha. The power is already a really big cone; Cardiac can make it dangerously large and cause it to aggro groups you don't intend to.

The main reason to take it, IMO, is on a character with low mitigation or debuff elsewhere. I like it on Blasters. Not so much on Controllers (Blaster version also lasts a lot longer, 30 seconds vs Ice's 18, which was deliberately nerfed for some strange reason back when AoE holds were halved in duration even though Stalagmites and Flashfire were left alone... very odd).

BTW I happened to have this build lying around from a previous request for assistance and thought I'd post it to demonstrate how I'm envisioning powers playing together. It illustrates the relationship between the powers I was describing. This particular one is definitely built with incarnate powers in mind (both Cardiac and Destiny Ageless in this case) to manage endurance. But it caps both Ranged and Psi defense and provides mezz protection helpful for rocking incarnate enemies. Mezz protection isn't perma as illustrated but with Ageless it is.

The reason I went for Ranged and Psi defense is that these are the two defense types least likely to get help from Hurricane. Psi attacks are particularly ugly, because they can lower recharge, which can slow down Indom Will, which in turn can result in a mezz that previously landed suddenly taking effect.

The build could be used prior to obtaining full endurance management by turning off the Resistance portions of it. You could also play around with changing the APP or moving slots around.

FYI Thunderclap has a knockback proc in it, so in this build you'd only use it if you Frostbite first. Thunderclap is there to allow you to still be somewhat safe after you've immobilized the mobs; plus it made a better mule than Boxing. It's the first power I'd consider dropping if you want to grab something else.



Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Storm Summoning
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(5), Dmg-I(5), HO:Perox(13)
Level 1: Gale -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Frostbite -- GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(A), GravAnch-Hold%(15), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(43), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 4: Chilblain -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(17), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(19)
Level 6: Arctic Air -- CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(7), CoPers-Conf%(7), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(9), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(9), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(11)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 10: Steamy Mist -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(15), RedFtn-Def(19), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(23), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(25), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 12: Ice Slick -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(50)
Level 16: Freezing Rain -- RechRdx-I(A), Achilles-ResDeb%(17)
Level 18: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Hurricane -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(21), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(21), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 26: Glacier -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(27), Lock-%Hold(27), Lock-Acc/Rchg(34), Lock-Rchg/Hold(36), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(36)
Level 28: Thunder Clap -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(29), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(29), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(31), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(31), Stpfy-KB%(31)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(37), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(34), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Tornado -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(36)
Level 38: Lightning Storm -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(40), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Mental Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(46), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Psionic Tornado -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Mind Over Body -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(50)

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