Local_Man

You skipped three of the best powers in my opinion. Fearsome Stare is an essential control power - a great Alpha attack that neutralizes a full group while debuffing their To-Hit. Worry about Containment later after the entire group is controlled.

Possess? A Deceive/Confuse clone with a better animation that draws NO AGGRO so you can take foes out of the fight before it begins. Possess is wonderful for that straggler who is outside of your AoEs. My Illusion/Rad guide discusses all the great uses of Deceive, and that would apply to Possess, too.

And you skipped Haunt? A couple of pets who do pretty good damage and can be a great aggro puller?

I would consider these three powers to be staples of the Dark Control set.

Oops, I forgot Cloud Senses is also a 6.25% set. (I didn't look at Mids either.)

I actually have Fly, Hover and Afterburner on my Ill/Rad currently. Hover and Afterburner make nice places for a LotG Recharge to go with SI and CJ. Since Ill/Dark has Shadowfall, you could slot a Stealth IO in Fly, and use Hover, Afterburner, Shadowfall, Combat Jumping and Maneuvers or Group Invis as places for the LotG Recharge.

It is nice to fit in Recall Friend if you can. You can also use it for a Zephyr -knockback since any other slotting does very little. (You would have to use GI instead of Maneuvers.)

That's a start, but there are a few minor corrections or suggestions:

Coercive Persuasion is the purple set for Deceive. But include the Contagious Confusion proc.

Phantom Army: My recommended slotting is 4 Expediant Reinforcement (leave of the proc and the Dam/End), then finish with Dam/Rech and Chance for Build Up from the purple Soulbound set.

In Spectral Terror, I think you can use the Glympse of the Abyss set if you don't yet have 5 sets with 6.25% Rech (and I count only 4). I only used Horror in my Ill/Rad build because I already had 5 sets with 6.25%.

When you said "grant invisibility," didn't you mean "Group Invisibility?" However, if you go with Fly instead of super speed, then you can take Afterburner and Hover, both of which will take a LotG Recharge, and offer a little more function than a useless mule power.

My Illusion/Rad guide discusses this in the section on how to make a Perma-PA build. You start out by needing 300% Recharge. Basicly, you need to fully slot PA for 95% recharge, and then you need an additional 206% from other sources. Hasten handles 70% of that. Rad's AM provides 30%, but with Ill/Dark you won't have that 30%. So you will need 136% Recharge from your IO sets.

I think it is just the way you put it that has folks bothered. Instead of describing someone else's opinion as "bad advice" when many others hold the same opinion, why not simply state that you "feel strongly" that taking the single target Immob is important? Describing someone else's opinion in such authoritative tones is just asking for a flame war.

To discount my opinion and that of many others when you don't know the level of my experience comes off as a bit arrogant. Yes, I wrote an Illusion/Rad guide that is pretty popular. But I also wrote an Earth/Rad guide which was for a team-focused controller. I've taken two Plant, two Earth, an Ice, three Fire and an Elec controllers up to 50 and a few beyond that. Only about 4 of them took the single target Immob. So I think I have enough experiece to disagree with your assertion that skipping the single target immob is "bad advice."

Uh, of my 34 level 50 characters, about 14 of them are controllers. I have quite a few other controller characters who are not yet 50. I have at least one of every primary at 50 (except Dark). A few of them were built to solo, and those have the single target Immob. Most of them don't have it. Most of them do decent damage without it.

In my original post, first please notice that I said what "I" would be doing. If you want to do something different, that's your choice. I acknowledged that the single target Immob is a good damage power. But leveling up on a team-focused controller, I find that there are plenty of things to do rather than focus on single target damage. My damage-focused teammates can usually do damage much faster than I can.

No offense, but I have played lots and lots of controllers, and I've generally been pretty effective at it. Many of them skip the single target Immob. Your "my way or the highway" attitude fails to take into account varying playstyles.

If you are looking at slowing a single foe, then Ice/Cold can easily go far past the slow cap. Remember, however, that AVs have high resistance so what appears to be excessive Slow on non-AVs will actually have a pretty decent effect on AVs.

In terms of AoE slow, you will be able to slow huge groups. Arctic Air and/or Shiver, Snow Storm and Sleet. Each of these powers is near or at the cap FOR EVEN CON FOES. You will need a little more for higher level foes if you want to hit the Slow and -Recharge caps . . . but do you really need to hit the caps? Probably not.

Is Ice/Cold a waste? My experience with Ice Control is with an Ice/Storm, which has a number of powers shared with Cold. I don't feel excessive amounts of Slow are a waste. Leveling up, I had both Arctic Air and Snow Storm -- AA was for melee while Snow Storm was my ranged Slow. Snow Storm was my "set it and forget it" toggle that also knocked foes out of the sky. (I could have used Frostbite, but the -knockback conflicted with my Ice Slick.) And then I had Freezing Rain, which I often combined with Ice Slick or sometimes alternated with Ice Slick.

Once inherent Fitness was added to the game, I also added Shiver to my build. Why? It is an awesomely huge cone that has actually come it quite handy on things like the ITF and some Incarnate Trials. Many of the later TFs and newer content features huge groups of foes, and having several AoE Slows have been very helpful. An AV hit with Snow Storm plus Shiver plus Arctic Air will noticeably slow.

With Ice/Cold, you will also have Infridgidate to add even more single target slow. No, I don't think it is a waste. I have fun with my character who is a "Slow Monster." Whether it is fun to you is individual choice.

I agree that while 1 Acc is fine most of the time, a little bit more than one Acc is really better. But we were talking about SO slotting, and 1 Acc may not be enough against high level foes or if there are some ToHit Debuffs flying around. Two enhancements give you full value while a third one begins the deminishing returns. But I agree that it really is optional, and 1 Acc is adequate most of the time.

I prefer Controls over Debuffs. Why? Controls stop the foe from doing anything, giving me plenty of time to apply debuffs later. Debuffs will reduce the number of hits from a foe or the amount of damage, but I or my teammates still get hit. And on teams, by the time RI is applied, either the foes are dead or a teammate is. When I control first, I usually have time to apply EF but not RI before teammates have killed most or all of the foes. Also, controls stop foes from mezzing me while debuffs don't.

Not really. Accuracy is key for Alpha Strikes, before you apply the Rad Debuffs. And I find that in higher levels, I only use Radiation Infection on really tough foes due to the long cast time. Enervating Field is used much more often due (in part) to the faster cast time. To reduce Accuracy based upon RI, you would have to apply RI before the other controls . . . which will draw aggro.

My Elec Controller is an Elec/Rad, too. Solo, I generally start with either Synaptic Overload if it is up, then Static Field, then run in with Conductive Field+Choking Cloud to drain endurance while holding. Then I let the Imps defeat the foes while I keep them controlled.

On teams, I often use Static Field, Fences and then Jolting Chain, then run in.

You have much of the basic idea, with a few tweeks.

Tesla Cage: 2 Acc, 2 Hold, 2 Rech really gives you the most benefit. You want this power to hit, and that third Recharge has a fairly small benefit -- especially if you have Hasten.

Chain Fences: I use this power a fair amount to make sure that groups don't spread when they get woken up by various powers. Since it does not have -Knockback, you can use it effectively with Jolting Chain. 2 acc, 1-2 EndRdx, and then damage procs (Posi-Blast and Trap of the Hunter are reasonably priced.) You can also slot this with EndMod to help with draining.

Jolting Chain: 1-2 Acc (depending on how often you use it and whether you have a regular practice of targetting low level foes), 0-2 Rech. Jolting Chain can be used as a signfigant source of control when combined with Chain Fences. I have used Static Field on one group, and then Immobed a second group with Chain Fences and spammed Jolting Chain -- it is not "lock down" control so much as mitigation control. It disrupts the foes' ability to attack and reduces the damage they do. A Devastation Chance for Hold is nice here.

Conductive Aura: Acc and EndMod is correct. I never bothered with the proc, which only has a 10% chance to stun, and I think may only be mag 2. But I never tried it.

Static Field: Acc and Rech, EndMod if you have spare slots.

Paralyzing Blast: Like other AoE Holds, this has a 20% Accuracy penalty. 2 Acc, 2 Hold, 2 Rech.

Synaptic Overload: 2 Acc, 2 Conf, 2 Rech. This is a very, very useful power since it does not draw aggro. It is a great Alpha Strike power, even better than Static Field, but (a) takes a while to chain, (b) if it misses the first target, it misses everything, and (c) if foes are too spread out, the chain doesn't work. If it misses, you can always use Static Field. I find it more useful solo -- on teams you have to run ahead to give it time to chain before the rest of the team gets there.

For solo strategy, you can always consider taking an additional attack power like Air Sup. Air Sup's knockdown really works well with Electric control, keeping a foe controlled which you beat on him. Once you get Synaptic Overload, you will often lead off with that. Once you get the Gremlins, they become the majority of your damage -- you mostly focus on controlling while the Gremlins do the damage.

On teams, you may have to adjust your strategy depending upon the team. If the team has a lot of AoE DoT, then Static Field becomes nearly useless. (I hate teaming with Fire Controllers.) Yes, Static Field is your main control power. Depending upon the team, you may have to run ahead to use Synaptic Overload. You may use Paralyzing Blast more often. Or you may find that Chain Fences+Jolting Chain is a wonderful way to reduce the damage being taken by your teammates -- That's what I use most when I have to deal with a Fire Controller or a Blaster using Rain powers.

That was before the STF and LRSF, so the only way to get Hami-Os were Hami Raids. Also, there were no markets so the only way to get the Hami-Os you wanted were to either earn them or trade for them.

I would love to see Hami-Os go back to those old levels. With ED, the added enhancement would not be a problem. Furthermore, by slotting Hami-Os, you forego IO set bonuses. However, since they are far more common and easier to get now than when they had the higher values, the Devs may find this a basis to not make a change.

On the other hand, they could only buff Hami-Os and not Synthetic Hami-Os.

The change coming with I-22, where Hami-Os won't be able to enhance aspects which are opposite to the listed aspect. No more using Enzymes to enhance Defense or Centrioles to enhance Damage Resistance. So buffing the amount of enhancement in Hami-Os shouldn't be unbalanced.

Stupidly picky grammar discussion:


Ah, you see you are changing the object of the adjective. Your original use of "most" was quantitative rather than comparative. "Most" referred to the number of controller sets in your original usage -- you stated, "Tornado and the AoE immobilize are a given for most control sets." In fact, Tornado works with an Immob with -knockback for half of the current control sets which is not "most."

When you change it to "most common" then you are changing the object of the adjective to "common" which is a comparison between groups rather than the group itself. When one group has twice the number of items compared to two other groups, then "most common" is correct. It would be equally correct to use "most common" if you had 20 blue M&Ms, and 16 Red M&Ms and 17 Yellow M&Ms. Even though the blues were not more than 50%, they are still the "most common." However, you would not correctly state, "Most of the M&M's are blue." The same analysis applies to "most frequently."

But enough of this. My initial stupidly picky and completely unnecessary correction was, in fact, correct.

The changes certainly do make Dark Affinity more appealing. A powerset with one useless power (Black Hole) is certainly better than three.

Actually, "most" is more than 50%. For a 4:2:2 grouping, you might say that the largest number are in the 4, but not that 4 are "most." We can't add in Dark because it is subject to change -- it is not a current control set.

And picking nits is what I do . . . I'm a lawyer who does a lot of business law contract work. And this is the Internet where it is our job to threadjack whenever possible over the stupidest and most microscopic details as though they were vital to all of human existance.

Just a slight correction: Fire, Plant, Earth and Ice all have -knockback in the Immob. Illusion and Mind don't have an AoE Immob, and Grav and Elec don't have -knockback in their AoE Immob powers.

So that's not "most" -- it is exactly half of the current sets.

It seems to me that Dark/Storm should be an awesome pairing . . . and if I didn't already have four */Storm controllers at 50, that's what I probably would roll up. Besides, theme-wise it would fit the ole' "It was a dark and stormy night" trope.

Actually, Strangler does slightly more damage per activation, but does it a lot faster. Take a look at the numbers from City of Data:

Entangle does 5 * 3.06 Smashing damage every 2s over 9.2s plus 5 * 3.06 Lethal damage every 2s over 9.2s plus Containment damage of 5 * 6.12 Lethal damage every 2s over 9.2s. It also applies a Mag 4 Immobilize with an "overpower" chance of 50% to apply an additional Mag 1 (which is usally wasted since Mag 4 will immobilize bosses). Base Recharge is 4 seconds.

Strangler does 5 * 6.73 Smashing damage every 1s over 4.2s plus that same amount again for Containment. It also applies a Mag 3 HOLD with an "overpower" chance of 20% for an additional mag 1. The Overpower will hold Bosses in one shot. Base Recharge is 8 seconds. However, the recharge becomes far less of a factor once recharge is added to the power and globally.

The fact is that a HOLD is a far better control power than an Immob. The difference in damage is minimal. Strangler does more DPA over a shorter period of time, while Entangle does its damage over a longer time but recharges faster. Don't forget that most of Entangle's damage is Lethal, which is more highly resisted than Smashing. Robots are weak to Smashing but resist Lethal.

A single target hold is essential for a controller to, well, CONTROL. If you want a DPS character, don't roll a controller. On all of my controllers (and I have a lot), I always take the single target hold as soon as it becomes available. I may or may not take the single target Immob depending on the build.