LivingHellfire

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If an electron oscillates left in 1.36 moles of oxygen gas and no one is around to observe it, does it still have a quantum wave function?

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No one knows... nor can we ever know.

I'll join.

I'll not announce what character I'm bringing until I know what TF we're doing, however.

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When the game feels like a job, and a boring job at that, it's grind to me.

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I agree. And this game is a grind for me up until at least around level 25 on any given character.

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Generally I agree with this which is why I try to focus on enjoying the story arcs until then and distract myself from working my way to 25.

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Oh, so true... for me the game doesn't even start until about level 22. Up to that point it's all about "getting the character to a level where he's fun to play" and that's about it.

I don't "play" low-level and new characters, I invest time in them in the hopes that they'll be fun to play later. Often they are... but sometimes they're not and then they just feel like a colossal waste of time.

Bye... you'll be missed. You have the rare ability to be sunny and cheerful without being "cutesy" about it, I've always enjoyed and appreciated that.

There are some photos here.

http://www.wwe.com/superstars/raw/ha.../newrawphotos/

None of them are of the pic Torak used for his avatar, but that's most definately the guy in question.

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"Dude, you have NO idea how task forces work."


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This line alone makes this story worth the price of admission.

Well done... I'm surprised how much I missed these stories.

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Torak also had an avatar reminiscent of WarCraft III's Muradin and was a generally memorable and very pleasant character. I do wish he'd stuck around.

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I believe that avatar was Jim Duggan, who was a wrestler in the 80's and early 90's.

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It was? Didn't he say that was him? I remember he even changed it to a newer picture of the same guy at one point. Can't seem to find his old avatar, as his account page seems to have lost its pic. Think you can find a pick of this wrestler dude so we can compare memories?

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I can try, but I'm at work, so it might take me a while... failing anything I'll send you a link over PM.

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Torak also had an avatar reminiscent of WarCraft III's Muradin and was a generally memorable and very pleasant character. I do wish he'd stuck around.

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I believe that avatar was Jim Duggan, who was a wrestler in the 80's and early 90's.

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Ok, I miss other long absent posters like MMZ_Torak.

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He was the best. Every once and a while someone would say something that could be turned into a pun and he and I would go on for a dozen posts trying to out-pun each other.

Invariably I think he got the better of me most times, but it was a lot of fun.

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One thing I DO miss, however, is that there used to be a time when the rules were applied with thought behind them, not just because the forum rules says so. Sometimes we were allowed to push and bend the rules if it was obvious it was in good spirits and helpful to fostering productive discussion, whereas other times trolls and idiots had their threads pulled for even passing violations of minor rules because they were making a mess of things. In fact, I used to tell people that they shouldn't worry about accidentally infringing on the rules as long as their heart is in the right place and they don't make a giant huge mess of things. Whether that was due to the generally lower severity of moderation or due to personal style (and it's not just Cuppa, as Lighthouse was pretty good about these things, too) I cannot say, but this no longer seems to be the case.


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I agree very strongly, except about Lighthouse.

I miss the days when the rules weren't used as a cudgel.

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I remember those days as well. Those were some heated discussions in the blaster form. After the blaster buffs, it mellowed out alot.

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Sort of...

I can't remember if it was before or after the buffs, but I remember that we got all these Siren's Call Stalker kiddies in there trying to tell us that blasters were WILDLY overpowered, based solely on their experience as a Stalker, CoV-side, Siren's Call fighting ice/NRG blasters at level 30, which is golden time for blasters, and especially so for that build.

It's much more calm in there now... so much so that I never go in there anymore, there's just nothing to argue about anymore.

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Oh man. I'd almost forgotten about AnarchicGorrilla's posts in the blaster forum. Ahh, good times.

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I'll always remember him... he was the very picture of obstinence.

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The ED Doom was pretty hilarious, in retrospect.

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I still think ED is retarded... but anyway.

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Not sure I follow the "accountability" problem. They're held accountable for everything they do, so how is this different than any given day on the forums?

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Not actually accountable. We try to hold them accountable, but they won't accept it and there's nothing we can do to force it on them. Hell, there isn't even any way to complain when we're mistreated. You happen to have any of the contact info for any of the NCSoft VPs handy?

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An earning rate cap actually makes them less accountable for exploits people find, provided those exploits aren't able to circumvent the earning rate cap. It's automatic, so they don't have to babysit and enforce as they would a verbally specified earning rate limit. The only problem is technical. i.e. Whether or not it could be implemented without eating up too many additional server cycles.

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Details...

The reality is that the reason we were given for them not setting an actual limit, declaring the actual rule is because if they did then people would go right to the line, and we all just nodded at each other as though we accept that value judgement.

But... that's just it, it's a value judgement. At no point have we been told WHY going right to the limit of the rule is bad. Not once. We're just supposed to accept that it is and swallow it. If they can justify the why of it, then fine, but so far they've not even so much as tried.

I've been here for, well... a while now.

I miss some of the off-topic arguments that used to happen here. The rule has always been no politics, no religion, but often, back in the days of Cuppajo, they would rage for pages and pages and pages. I remember squabbling (quite fiercely) with the likes of Kalimagdalene over whether or not "GLBT Only" SGs were a good idea. I remember arguing about Bush and the Iraq war. I remember having crazy long flamewars with Friggin_Tazer and teasing Miss_Kitty about her stupid stalkers. I remember long, furious threads about religion, the hard-core atheists on one side, the religious on the other and agnostics like myself in the middle.

I remember the wars that blasters and scrappers had on these here forums, about what a scrapper's role on a team was and about whether or not blasters were broken. I remember Dr_Zeus pontificating about the bad manners of certain posters (myself included, at times). I remember Puffy_Shirt posting what was probably the first "DOOOOM!" thread in the beta forums, or at least hearing about it.

I remember circling the wagons with Hephaestus, my fellow fire/fire blaster and holding the angry mobs at bay when we argued, in I2/3, that blasters needed fixing and that range was NOT a blaster's defense. I remember standing shoulder to shoulder with Ohms_ in the blaster forum taking on the likes of AnarchicGorrilla as he attempted to prove with numbers that blasters were over-powered.

There are a lot of things that I remember, that I miss. This is a very, very different place now, some of it for the better, some of it maybe not so much...

What do you miss?

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I want an accent. Maybe I'll buy one..

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That's odd, we just bought one. It's nice, light blue, good condition, only about 75,000 kalakams on the odometer. We're picking it up next week.

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What they really should do is not just specify a limit, but code that into the game engine.

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You'd think they would have by now. But then their doing that presumes a lot of truth about what is actually an exploit and what isn't

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Why would they do that? Doing that would make them actually accountable, why would they want to be accountable when they don't need to be?

By leaving everything as nebulous as possible they can do as they please.

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I grind for badges, I'll admit it. Like the Ouroboros badges I'm still working on.

But the rest of the time, I play. It's a lot more fun that way.

--NT

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I feel like a spoilt brat, man.

For years I argued for the ability to go back and do arcs that I missed on the way up the level chain. I fought and squabbled and tussled with the developers and with the other players and posters who disagreed with me.

Well, finally I got my way! I can do it now!

... and I hate it.

Don't get me wrong, I love that we can do it, but I hate doing it. I hate taking my super-ultra powerful characters down to level 15 to solo missions in 6 year old content, it's just the most unfun thing in the game.

So, yah, spoilt brat.

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I consider the word "grinding" to be pejorative anyway.

The reality is that "grinding" and "Farming" are the same thing. They're identical activities, repetitive behaviour for extended periods of time for the purpose of accruing an in-game commodity (experience, currency, items, whatever...).

The only real difference between grinding and farming is whether or not the player himself is enjoying it. If the player enjoys what he's doing, then he'll likely call it farming. If he doesn't, then he'll likely call it grinding.

In short, grinding is farming that isn't fun, and farming is grinding that is fun, both of which are entirely dependant on the perspective of the player.

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You guys keep saying I lose but.. I haven't. Your friends are leaving, not mine. You're dissatisfied with the game, not me. You think you're being mistreated, I don't. I can do nothing BUT win. Not to mention I don't personally judge just stating the same crap over and over as being 'stomped into the ground'

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You're conflating the issues... I'm not saying you've lost the issue, I'm saying you've lost the argument. Please, at least try to keep up. As my father often says; "Knowing the score shows a friendly interest in the game."

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I'm sure your clique agrees with you, but then... so? You haven't actually proven anything except you have a large vocabulary and as much time to waste as I do.

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Argument isn't about "proof", it's about logical consistency...

*yawn*

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Your parents should buy you a twin to play with.


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That's a terrible idea. What if the other one just started posting on here to? Knowing me he'd just side with Living to piss me off.

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Please, call me Liv.

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ok go.

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Awesome...

Right, so where did I call you name? Please quote me.

Also, bear in mind that I said earlier upthread that I figured you were a nice fella... of course, you didn't bother with that, did you? I know better than to form a value judgement of someone based solely on their posts online, many people act like complete jerks online but are really nice folks.

Secondly, I started this thread, no one else. Furthermore, I started the thread with an opinion formed by way of my own research in addition to the anectodes of my fellow justicites. Simply because you're in the minority of agreement doesn't mean that the rest of us are guilty of cronyism... but nice try.

Thirdly, if you're going to pick a fight with someone, make sure you can win. So far the only way you've managed to even get my attention, let alone actually counter anything I've said in terms of customer service or of the issue itself, is by behaving like a spoiled child who can't bear to lose an argument.

You're outclassed, outmatched and out-gunned, brother. There's no shame in losing an argument.

The only thing you have left at this point is hostility. You're not even bothering with addressing the issue and justifying your position, let alone making even so much as a dent in my arguments of the topic at hand.

It's sad, really...

But, at the same time, I've been gone a long time and I enjoy a good bit of How-Do-You-Do, so please keep posting, I'm enjoying stomping you into the ground.

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Awww... muffin...

Isn't he cute?

C'mon, folks, let's give him a round of applause!

C'mon, sport! Don't give up now! Keep posting in the thread, keep telling us how much you don't care what we think! C'mon, Tiger! You can do it!

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Sweet, 3 chummy nicknames in one post! You really DO like me. -snicker-

The rampant elitism around here really cracks me up. When are you guys leaving again? I want to mark it on my calendar.

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Heh... "elitism".

We post something you disagree with and you challenge us on it.

We counter your challenge, annihilating your logic and pointing out (albeit unnecessarily) a clearly biased mentality given your work history, not to mention your slavish devotion to being mistreated as a customer... simply because you seem to think that, for some reason, MMO customers have it coming.

And that makes us... "elitist".

You're going to have to try harder than that, son. You're boring me...

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MrDead,

What do you think that we, as players, should do if we disagree with the service or treatment we have been getting from a game we play a monthly subscription for?

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Vote with your feet. Vote with your wallet. Call CS. Write the dev's mail. But yelling and ultimatums and threats, well, they just have the opposite effect and make people like me talk on the forums. You don't want that
now do you?

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Some of us are voting with feet and wallet, but this is a community we value and discussion of events among your peers is normal and healthy. You aren't posting here as an affect of our actions, you're posting here because you want to or feel you need to. Why, I'm not sure. That's your deal.

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For every action there... eh nm. I actually am posting as a direct result, but whatever.

Ed: Somebody get the kids with the argument over the word 'direct' in here while we're at it.

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Sorry, but wrong. Nothing I or anyone else has posted is making you be here. You're 'choosing' to post. Whether for a misplaced comrade in development perspective, just to air your disagreement, or simply to be obnoxious, I couldn't say.

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Soooo.. what you're saying is.. if these posts didn't exist, your argument wasn't here, and this thread had never been posted... I'd still be here making this post? A simple yes or no will do. Thank you.

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No, what he's saying is that you're posting here of free will, which means that either you care about the game and the developers, and think they did the right thing, or you're merely being obstreperous for the sake of being obstreperous.

If it's actually the first of those two possibilities one might find some degree of admiration for you, but you eliminated any possibility of that with your fairly acerbic and caustic feelings about MMO players (of whcih you are one, by the way)... but the reality is that your mentality is, well... to paraphrase;

"MMO developers have a right to abuse their subscribers because they can't be trusted and because they're no more than children. In effect, MMO clients have it comin'... and they deserve whatever they get. "

This really is pretty basic logic and comprehension, dude. It's pretty clear why you were in QA instead of programming...

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All of which is STILL a direct result of you guys going on and on. Damn this is funny. Oh yeah, way to go there again guy! Keep 'em commin'!

Ed: Hey try an slip how you think Posi's fat in again on your next reply. Stick to the high road brother.

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Awww... muffin...

Isn't he cute?

C'mon, folks, let's give him a round of applause!

C'mon, sport! Don't give up now! Keep posting in the thread, keep telling us how much you don't care what we think! C'mon, Tiger! You can do it!

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MrDead,

What do you think that we, as players, should do if we disagree with the service or treatment we have been getting from a game we play a monthly subscription for?

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Vote with your feet. Vote with your wallet. Call CS. Write the dev's mail. But yelling and ultimatums and threats, well, they just have the opposite effect and make people like me talk on the forums. You don't want that
now do you?

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Some of us are voting with feet and wallet, but this is a community we value and discussion of events among your peers is normal and healthy. You aren't posting here as an affect of our actions, you're posting here because you want to or feel you need to. Why, I'm not sure. That's your deal.

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For every action there... eh nm. I actually am posting as a direct result, but whatever.

Ed: Somebody get the kids with the argument over the word 'direct' in here while we're at it.

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Sorry, but wrong. Nothing I or anyone else has posted is making you be here. You're 'choosing' to post. Whether for a misplaced comrade in development perspective, just to air your disagreement, or simply to be obnoxious, I couldn't say.

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Soooo.. what you're saying is.. if these posts didn't exist, your argument wasn't here, and this thread had never been posted... I'd still be here making this post? A simple yes or no will do. Thank you.

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No, what he's saying is that you're posting here of free will, which means that either you care about the game and the developers, and think they did the right thing, or you're merely being obstreperous for the sake of being obstreperous.

If it's actually the first of those two possibilities one might find some degree of admiration for you, but you eliminated any possibility of that with your fairly acerbic and caustic feelings about MMO players (of whcih you are one, by the way)... but the reality is that your mentality is, well... to paraphrase;

"MMO developers have a right to abuse their subscribers because they can't be trusted and because they're no more than children. In effect, MMO clients have it comin'... and they deserve whatever they get. "

This really is pretty basic logic and comprehension, dude. It's pretty clear why you were in QA instead of programming...