Linea_Alba
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Posts
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Joined
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I prefer Rebirth +Regeneration. I'm sure everyone has their own preference.
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Quote:Hasten with Hasten is less than 135s recharge, and ML with Hasten is Perma. That's close enough.Originally Posted by Wildlight
... should I softcap outside of Mind Link? ...
I'd probably back off the recharge hair, give TK more damage, Dominate more Hold/Recharge, Subdue some immob. Keep Hasten+Hasten to 135s or less, and ML+Hasten to 90s or less.
To Keep Musculature, you may, or may not, need to use Ageless +recovery.
Probably Decimation in TK, and Frankenslot Dominate and Subdue with Hamis and Sets. Build Link -
It looks to me like you slotted for every recharge bonus you could find with no consideration to any other aspect of the build. This is a mistake, moreso with veats than with other ATs.
- I don't see a recognizable damage chain, either ST or AoE.
- Dominate, your strongest ranged attack, has no damage slotting.
- If you wanted ranged attacks, subdue would be stronger than Dart, but causes redraw. However, even with the redraw, Subdue is an excellent damage power.
- Dominate mixed with claws will cause redraw. However, even with the redraw Dominate is an excellent damage power.
- You should choose claws based, ranged based, or hybrid. However, if hybrid is the choice, you should still have a somewhat clear consistent choice of powers.
- You have neither perma standard soft-cap, nor part-time incarnate cap. Oddly, you have part-time standard soft-cap. Nor do you have the standard less than soft-cap benchmarks.
- You have the miracle unique, but not Numina unique
- I see neither kismet nor steadfast uniques, although kismet is likely not needed.
- You use a 350m influence enzyme where a 5m influence Red Fortune D/E would be 98% as effective.
- CT:O is useless on a high end build that has IO Bonuses, a kismet unique would be more useful, but more expensive, if you want to exemplar below 23 and accuracy is a concern. If you are neither exemplaring below 23, nor are you concerned with low level accuracy, then neither Kismet nor CTO are of any use to a high end IO build.
- Foresight is underslotted.
- Mind Link is underslotted.
- Mask Presence is underslotted.
- Followup is abysmally slotted.
- Strike is oddly slotted, and oddly placed. A 5 CI and a Mako proc would likely be a better choice.
- In a good build with other defense bonues, there's no reason to 6 slot Aura of Confusion like that.
- Given your current defense levels, tough is oddly slotted
- Given your current defense levels, weave is oddly slotted
- <Place Holder for the half dozen things I missed>
See my sig for my current build, or the archives in my sig for a few dozen other builds of various quality.
(Just because it's in my archives does NOT mean it's a good build, you have to evaluate the builds yourself. A google docs or gmail account may be required for access.)
Also, browse the forum a bit more, there are several good builds of various flavors hidden in the topics on the first page alone. -
180% recharge, they are still dead even, but claws has hit it's plateau while SS still has room to grow.
What I mean by easier to build is, less sacrifices, simpler overall build. By cheaper, I mean you can plateau your performance for much lower costs, or reach a 90% or 95% mark magnitudes more cheaply and quickly. Sometimes that last 5% or 10% just isn’t worth it, at least for me. I'm not going to get into builds 10s of billions in cost when I can get 90 to 95% of that performance for 2 billion and some A-Merits/E-Merits. I honestly don't see an upper price point when I start looking at SS/FA builds, while I see very nice Claws builds for less than 10. It's just an opinion of course, you seem to be much more willing to spend influence than I am.
Quote:Level Pact the CEBR to the SS/FA, and run the CEBR 1 to 50. Best of both worlds. No start-up costs, excellent results early, and you can then IO out either or both 50's for your other needs. Honestly, I think that would be my recommendation.Cebr is awesome at what it does but it isn't as effective as a fully slotted 50 build. It does mean Claws would have a bit of an easier time getting to 50 and getting the cash required to IO that 50 for a new player but it still doesn't change the comparison of their potential when at 50 and fully IOd. -
I know, I know, SS/FA is the best at AoE. But ...
- Most of SS/FA's AoE is still coming from the secondary
- SS/FA really needs a purple build with extreme recharge to shine.
- I'm looking for a more moderate build with less purples.
- I like a bit more survivability and defense than straight up /FA gives.
- I don't like SS
- I love Katana
- Kat/FA for Divine Avalanche, Soft-Cap and Incarnate Cap vs Melee/Lethal, ST KD, and double -res procs in the ST chain
- WM/FA for KD and Stun
- FM/FA for straight up damage, but doesn't help defense any.
- Claws/FA - Good all around performer, and easy on the endurance bar.
- DB/FA - Second best all around performer, and next easiest on the endurance bar. I think I'd rather have Claws.
Something like the following:- With Spiritual T4
- The last 3 powers are optional.
- A later build may take slots from Tactics to put in /Mu Ball
- A later build may put Hami's in Tough/Weave/Maneuvers and put slots into Physical Perfection/Superior Conditioning.
- If the later build with Pysical Perfection/Superior Conditioning can handle the endurance, then for more recharge I may
- Flip the Multi-Strikes all over to Oblits
- Purples in GD
- Purples for GC.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
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Google Docs is apparently broken today, so dropbox:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15076020/Cha...%20FARM%29.xls- It's dead even - on this low recharge build.
- This is for AE Ambush Farms of short duration only.
- This assumes solo farming.
- Solo Farming for AE Ambush Farms of short duration, you should remain damage capped from beginning to end. Rage, FE, FU, BU, and other powers only ease your ability to remain capped in every mission regardless of the luck of the drops.
- If not solo farming you have to time weight your various damage levels, and approximate your +damage levels including red inspirations. This is essentially impossible to do on paper. In-game tests have always given this edge to SS.
- Standard Procs Included, but not purple procs.
- Redraw .66 (.46 +.20). I add .20 to all activation times to estimate arcana time, so I give redraw an activation of .46, so that it consumes .46 +.20 = .66 seconds.
- I used x8 for the small radius and x10 for the larger radius. This is what my experience has shown me to be pretty reliable. Other players or playstyles may have better, or worse, use of radius, cones, and ranges. I personally am not extremely proficient with cones, even after playing them for years. Ambush farms make the use of radius and cones much better than average.
- If you insist on different x multipliers, despite experienced players telling you otherwise, help yourself.
- If you want a different chain, or other variations, help yourself.
As already noted:- In all non-ambush-farm content, the SS will pull ahead.
- As recharge increases, SS will pull ahead, and this build is farily low recharge.
- If you use rage, SS will pull ahead. However, I wouldn't use double rage in AE Farms, and even single rage can be questionable depending on the length of the levels vs the rage crash. If you can max tickets in 120s or less, or time your use of rage such that the crash happens while you're between missions. This will vary depending on build, farm, and playstyle.
- Radius IS an advantage, even in ambush farms, more-so in all other farms or content.
- The SS is in my experience easier to build, has more slots available, but costs considerably more since recharge is the primary leverage point.
- Counter Point: Claws can get good performance cheaply.
- Further Counter Point: See CEBR (link) for ludicrously cheap but still good performance.
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Redraw, Recharge, and Radius.
In the spreadsheets I've done for regular content, SS/FA AoE is a 10 to 11, while Claws/FA AoE is 8.5 to 9.5. I've not done any calculations specific to AE Farms.
It's my EWAG, that in an AE Farm they will be very close. In a regular farm or any content that can leverage Rage, SS will start pulling ahead. The more you leverage recharge, the more SS will pull head. At some point, at lower recharge, Claws may well be better than SS - at low recharge levels. At the extreme high recharge levels, nothing is going to compete with SS/FA.
Yes Radius Counts, less so in ambush farms, but it still counts.
I give FS and Mu ball an x10, while I give Spin, Burn, E Fences an x8
E-Fences may, or may not, hurt your output, depending on the build and recharge level. In one build I had, it litterally was a neutral, neither gain nor loss; which implies there are builds where what you sacrifice may outweight what you gain.
I assume Redraw as 0.60, but really have no idea how long or short it is. Once upon a time I reverse calculated it, but have since completely forgotten. I would love for someone more knowledgeable to give us a definitive value for redraw that I could note somewhere so I don't forget it.
If, like me, you simply don't like SS ... then Good Alternatives are (in order, maybe): Fire Melee, War Mace, Claws, Battle Axe, Katana(i21), Dual Blades. Chances are I'm gonna give a Katana/Fire a spin in i21. One half to two thirds of your AoE potential is coming from /Fire and /Mu anyway, so it's not such a huge loss if you don't like SS, but it is a loss. -
Quote:http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...18#post3492718Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
.. Do you know off hand of some DM/Invuln Scrapper times we can compare to?
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Claws.
FM.
WM, but it's very endurance intensive. My jury is still debating this one.
Not DM, it's more a hard target killer than an AoE powerhouse. -
As I understood it, we concluded that unless you had very high dps (DM/SD or higher) that you added more from the fire dot than from the -res. But, 95% of that testing was done pre-nerf.
However, if you're only getting 30 to 40 dps from T4, on a 200 dps build, that has 8 chances to proc in 10 seconds, I have to wonder. That should be adding at least 10 dps from the -res, and so then 20 to 30 dps is the fire dot. Well, if you saturate the -res and half the fire dot with the core version, that's 200 dps for the -res, and 10 to 15 dps for the Fire dot. So if you're only getting 30 dps .... I have to ask how many procs per 10 seconds and which reactive, as the dps threshold to switch between the two versions may be lower than I previously thought, and actually relevant.
So, at some point, I'll go test all 4 T3 versions, then both T4 versions. But not terribly soon, I have plenty to do already. -
Quote:Yes, it didn't work. But I don't recall if that was scrapper or brute claws. However, I don't think that particular answer will vary between the two ATs.Originally Posted by Death_Adder
Has anyone done the math on including eviscerate with the gladiator -res proc in the chain. ...
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Musculature T4 Core ... my quick "guestimate" says you lose 5, add 9, multiply by 1.06 to 1.075 instead of 1.08 and ... 200 to 203 instead of 199.7. Probably not worth running up 2 spreadsheets to check it. It's the whole +damage surplus thing again. On a scrapper, it might be worth it, but not a brute. -
No Blazing Aura in the Calcs. No Lightning Aura. I've never bothered to measure either.
Never calcled gloom, and redraw can only be measured in-game. I know gloom doesn't work out for Fort Claws, but I was of the opinion it would help Scrapper and Brute claws. I could be wrong on that. I personally had not planned on picking it up, so I didn't even try to figure it out.
And, I'm not there yet. I'm pushing 47 with the oldest one, and late 30s with the youngest. Which is why I'm working on builds and their potential, I won't be keeping and IOing all 8 of them. I'm keeping the Kat/Will and only one, maybe two more.
Claws/FA, WM/FA, FM/FA, SS/FA, DB/FA, WM/ELA, Claws/ELA
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Purpled Build with Purple Procs and Achilles (and 67% fury), No Burn, No Aura so as to be similar to SR: 180.54 * 1.075 ~= 194.98
FU -> Focus -> Slash -> Strike
To remove Strike you'd have to have very high recharge, 314% on FU. The net gain would be ~5 dps, or 199.69.
That matches pretty close with what you measured, so I don't think I'm doing anything vastly wrong. There are just a few things I need to measure more closely, or get better info on. -
That's with an Achilles, but Achilles isn't saturated.
Also, I'm not using Gloom. Gloom in place of strike will boost both numbers.
Not perfect chains either.
Without FU at all, with Achilles: 152 * 1.08 ~= 164 dps
Burn -> Focus -> Slash -> Strike -> Focus -> Slash -> Strike
With Single FU, with Achilles: 162 * 1.067 ~= 173 dps
FU -> Burn -> Focus -> Slash -> Strike -> Focus -> Slash -> Strike
With Double FU: 168 * 1.06 ~= 178 dps
Burn -> Fu -> Focus -> Slash -> Strike -> Fu -> Focus -> Slash -> Strike
No, none of it's perfect. Yes, it's just paper. I like to look at it on paper before I take all the time to rebuild and try it on test or live. The thing is, from my Scrapper and Veat experience, I had expected a much larger boost due to double fu. It is a boost, but it's a magnitude smaller than with the scrapper or veat. A smaller boost of 0.085x, three times smaller than a boost of 0.24x that I am more familiar with. -
Traps/dark synergizes well and in the early levels. However, If you never die, you aren't trying hard enough.
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The higher numbers were probably pre-nerf. I personally haven't tested anything since the nerf. I may need to change the numbers I use and do some more testing myself.
Also, if the numbers are that much lower now, it may well pay to switch from radial to core ?
On a 200 dps build, each core stack will be adding 5 dps. How much does each Dot stack add ?
I think I see something I definitely need to go back and test again. -
I fixed the numbers, but it's still pretty lackluster. 177 dps with it double stacked to 164 without it. Damage bonus saturation is definitely a problem. Much like Brute AoA on SD: Useful, but it's not like it is on a scrapper.
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I've already taken Follow-up. However, I'm looking at different sets and as a result I've noticed something in Brute Claws that isn't making sense to me. It looks like the base damage of follow-up is so low, that with a reasonable amount of fury, I'd get better ST dps by skipping follow-up, and just hitting things more often. This isn't true of the scrapper version, the +damage in double stacked follow-up for scrappers makes it un-skip-able, but I'm taking a serious double take with the Brute version.
I'll double check the numbers in-game later, but does anyone else have an opinion ? -
As I recall, I guestimated it would take 8 procs in 10 seconds to saturate the DoT Effect. So close enough, SS/FA should saturate the DoT effect. At least that was what I was using as observed values. I assumed 4 to 6 stacks. To saturate both procs would likely be double that, and likely impossible.
That is, however, a total EWAG. -
Flashing Steel is a good attack, combined with TLD it can actually give Kat respectable AoE. However, I don't have room for it.
I like Vengeance, and I like Shadow Meld (Aka: Moment of Glory Light). You'll find Vengeance in every build I can fit it in. You'll find Shadow Meld in most of my scrapper builds.
Strength of Will is only resistance, and it's pretty weak, beats nothing and it's holding a set bonus.
Strength of Will + Shadow Meld combined might almost equal a good T9 ... for all of 15 seconds. 8-p
Vengeance is my DDR and Shadow Meld is my Freebie Medium Luck for if the debuffs get heavy for a few seconds. My build may well be better served by Vengeance than Shadow Meld, depending on how you play it and how much you team vs solo. Vengeance in place of Shadow Meld would be at the top of my list of potential changes, would free up a couple of slots for use elsewhere, and would make the build ludicrously tough for the duration when the chips (aka teammates) are down. Vengeance + Strength of Will durations would match for a much better T9, The two combined would make for a pretty decent not-sad face. Toss in Demonic on top of that and I'll actually smile.
As noted above, tactics and kismet are +tohit, which is more useful than accuracy. I have a spreadsheet for that as well, but now days it's easy to just modify the base number in mids: Options -> Config -> Exemping and Base -> Base To Hit -> XX. Where XX = 39 for +4, 48 for +3, 56 for +2, 65 for +1, and 75 for +0 lvl targets. Be aware of set +accuracy bonuses and at what levels they become unavailable.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
and
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Exempl...n_Enhancements
I calculate DPS with a spreadsheet and a perl simulator both. It can be complicated, often with many assumptions made based on the current build and in-game experience and observations that may not carry over to other builds, players, and assumptions.
Here is an example spreadsheet (Instructions Not Included): https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hnQ0E&hl=en_US
It's actually pretty hard to pull off the perfect attack chain in-game, with all the distractions, but it still gives you a good idea of how well a build can perform, even if "you" are the weak link.
PS: Beware of Mids eccentricities. In particular in regards to BU procs. For Example: When you are measuring damage or accuracy, swap Gaussians to 3 cytos and activate it. When you are measuring defense, deactivate tactics and swap back to gaussians. -
Quote:This is the same behaviour I've observed, as a brute. They still manage to run, as the taunt is "mild". However, If I smack them again, they'll usually come back, but not always. I can also herd them back up with the aura if I want, or I can just ignore the few really stubborn runners and move along. But with no taunt at all, as a scrapper ....Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
It's gone, but stuff still runs. This issue goes beyond Burn. My brutes can see runners, but with the taunt aura and attacking they usually come right back. On scrappers, those guys just run.
My number one problem to achieving some of my goals is runners.- Reactive makes things run so fast it's not even funny. It must be the fire dot.
- Romulus running like a lunatic in both mission 3 and mission 4 of the ITF.
- Romulus running like a lunatic and having an additional +3 immobilize protection in mission 3 that he doesn't have in mission 4.
- Wanting to maximize AoE Dump, otherwise what's the point of all that AoE if it doesn't hit anything. Might as well stick to Katana with an immobilize.
All of which means I may have to stick to the Brute side of things for the AoE builds that aren't INV, WP, or SD. That or figure out how to pickup an immobilize and use it effectively, and I'm not real sure how viable that will be as a scrapper. If only scrappers could get Mu Fences, I'd be set.
PS: When I measured dps on an AV, I lost a minimum of 20% to runners, thus eliminating the tauntless scrappers damage advantage. -
My calcs give that chain with 67% fury 240dps + T4 Reactive ~= 330 to 340.
With 82% Fury I get 255 dps + T4 Reactive ~= 340 to 350.
Given how slow the attacks are, I'm not sure SS can saturate Reactive, so it's entirely possible reactive will contribute less than the previously observed values. That could mean as little as 300 dps. I've not seen enough reliable reports since the reactive changes.
I've never gotten a good feel for calculating reactive. The best I've managed is to observe that it adds 60 to 90 dps on average, and rarely a touch more. But those are mostly second hand and third hand reports and not completely reliable. -
As a brute, you have a mild taunt effect in Blazing Aura. The taunt is mild, but helpful, even though things can still run away.
As a scrapper how do you, or how well do you, keep targets in Burn and in close proximity for your PBAoEs ?
I'm very interested in (WM primarily or BA secondarily) / FA as a possible scrapper, but I'm cringing at the thought of no taunt at all. I know the KD will help with the running issue, but may not be enough.
I know one answer is: "Burn dumps more damage up front now, so I don't worry about runners."
I'm wondering if there are any other answers ? -
You still have to unlock your patrons before you become a hero. Once they are unlocked, they remain unlocked even if you switch sides. You can NOT take hero APPs, period. I believe you can start the patron arc at level 40, but it may be level 41.
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Quote:That's exactly how I do it. Standard 3 slot shields 1 end, 2 resist. Later I add a 4th slot with the 3rd resist for SO/Generic Builds. I never put more than 3/4 slots in shields until I plan my IO build, and even then, they are often only 3/4 slot. It's very rare for me to 6 slot a shield. However, I would have 3 slotted tough, if I had the slots. If I didn't have the slots, I would have used those slots for the 4'th slot and 3rd resist in the main shields. Often one resist shield of some kind will be 5 slotted, (3 slotted + Steadfast Unique + Gladiator Unique).Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
I actually was playing my tank with an unslotted Tough and the end drain didn't seem that bad and I wasn't using Energize, nor am I high enough for PS. I simply four slot the main resist toggles with 1 end, 3 resist. If they get more than that via IOs, that's what a repsec, or alternate build is for.
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This is my plan for Kat/WP, before I move on to a WM, BA, or maybe Fire when i21 hits. Mostly, I just haven't come up with a completely acceptable build for a WM scrapper yet. I just can't decide what to sacrifice in the build. I also want to try something more resist based, on the theory that purples are easy and oranges are rare. So, in the mean time I'm playing with Kat/WP, as it has everything I want, except more AoE. That and I've always been totally in love with Katana. In the end I hope to drag this one through a +4x8 Solo ITF, but I'm not ready to try it just yet. I'm really worried over the taunt/immobilize problem with Mario Romulus. There's really not much room for me to change to build, and I just am not certain it's gonna be possible without more taunt/immobilize. Regardless of the outcome, I'll keep her, if for no other reason than I just love Katana, and I think she's gonna perform almost as well as the mega-regen build, and be half the cost.
Otherwise she has all the highlights I want.- ST damage over 200.
- Absolute minimum AoE, I really wish she had more.
- .05 permissibility between ( 1 - .50 - defense) * (1- resist)
- 2250 spike protection, barely. Better if weighted for typed SLE/FCEN 2250/1500, weak on E primary.
- 50 hps or better regen.
- Recharge on hasten less than 135s.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
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