Leo_G

Right, because only you can rely on you. Unless they're friends you know and trust, you can't rely on them having specific capabilities outside of basic function. And if they are friends, and they chose a different path than what you'd suggest, then you're just going to have to try something else, aren't you?

No, I'm talking about in the general sense. Rephrased, if I'm on a team and the only melee is a Brute, I don't expect that Brute to tank if that isn't what he wants. Depending on the level or the AT, I'll think of other means to get the same goal.

Just like my Blaster not needing a meatshield to survive, my Tanker doesn't need taunt to be a meatshield. That is the beauty of CoX, you don't need a specific team make up to work, nor does a character need a specific make up to succeed.

My comment was directed toward the mentality of "We need a healer" rather than "We need to play smarter" that I've heard from various teams. Same with the whole "We need a tank" mentality. I'm of the mentality of "Work with what ya got" and it works. And it's fun.

No, a Tanker does not need taunt. Nor do they need to be spec'ed to tank any and all manner of foes. No one holds Blasters or Masterminds or Scrappers to these ridiculous standards of needing to be able to drop all minions in 2 clicks, able to solo AVs or solo +2/x8 spawns in their sleep so not seeing why anyone is holding Tankers to the stupid standard of *requiring* taunt...especially when your inherent does the same thing.

You don't dictate what a team does by its make up. Pure and simple.

Just because you have a Brute doesn't mean he can jump in as a substitute tank. Just because you have 2 defenders doesn't mean either will have any type of healing for you to use as a crutch.

If there's 7 Blasters on a team and I'm one of them, I'm going to adjust my play to compensate, most likely timing my damage with the others to take down hard targets before they can react or lean heavier on the control/debuff to make it safer.

Nowhere in that formula is 'Taunt'.

So stop trying the whole 'those blasters are gonna die!' BS to justify it.

I'd define that as someone who can do nearly anything with their character and/or if asked to perform a task, or simply sets himself out to do so, they can do so *AND* make it look easy. But simply being 'good' will make others of the same AT look 'not so great'.

I don't like to toot my own horn but, there are times when I play my Scrappers or Stalkers or Doms, I deliberately hold back if only because I'm having fun and I don't want to hog it all. I could be the 'Best Stalker/Dom' in the world and just make mince meat of a spawn, trivialize its aggro, take the alpha, so on and so forth, leaving little for everyone else (or selfishly solo stuff). But I prefer doing what I do while playing with a team.

In relation to Tankers, I don't see the reason to *need* to be the center of it all. Heck, even one of my Tankers (SD/DM) I consider a 'back up Tank' because I'd rather stick behind a Brute or Tank and buff their Def/debuff resists (I think, slotted, he can give nearly 18% def to all by just standing near someone, and like 21% if he throws Grant Invis on them).

But what I'm saying is, the best Tanker in the world isn't who hold the most aggro, but who's flexible to do a lot more and make it look simple. Taunt isn't a requirement to be that, but it can help.

PS: This thread hasn't made me want to play my Tankers, but my Blasters. It's been a few months since I last played one and I'm always out to prove to myself that I'm as self sufficient on a team as a Scrapper or other DPSer can be...and my other DPSers can be pretty damned self sufficient. Just made a red-side Dark/Energy Blaster on Freedom named Moon Foxx. We'll see where the journey leads.

This, minus the reggae sauce and...

...that.

This whole thread is a gas. Just a bunch of Tankers circle-jerkin their perspective, trying to reaffirm what they do is 'the right path'.

Hah, the worse of it is, it's mainly doing so by affirming the fragility of everyone else as proof that is their role. That'd work if it was truth.

The truth is, I don't need a meatshield for my blasters to not die. I don't need a taunter to clump foes together for my doms. I don't need someone to take the alpha for me on my stalkers. And I'm not the only player that doesn't. That said, is it nice when there is a tanker to perform these things? Of course! I like it when everyone contributes! But 'taunting' and 'aggro' is so specialized, so niche, so trivialized, you're limiting your own damned self if you think that's all you can do, is all the AT is good for and should be the focus of your playstyle.

The OP is purely fail, and is only posting this BS so he and all the other little Tankies can pat eachother on the backs. It's funny, really.

That said, I have 4 Tankers of my own and every one of them took Taunt by lvl 30. I did so because I *know* I'm not the best Tanker in the world and that power is a decent crutch. But even saying that, I try to only use it when there is lots of foes and I don't have the aggro cap breathing down my neck.

Power Boost from Energy secondary was changed to not boost Endurance Mod. You used to be able to sap lots of foes very quickly with just 1 application of Short Circuit without much investment in slots. Now you have to slot SC with End Mod to get even close to the same effect.

Technically, that wasn't caused by the *air* of the hurricane but the air's affect on the ocean, causing storm surges that caused much destruction all along the Gulf coast. So that was water doing much of the damage there.

I once suggested a water blast set that could have a function similar to Beam Rifle's disintegrate. But rather than spreading the effect to NPC foes, water blast would have a chance to summon pseudo-pet NPC 'puddles' that strengthened subsequent cold dmg attacks (part of the water blast set was primarily smashing with some minor cold dmg. the cold portion would drastically increase with more 'puddles' in the area).

Personally, I don't think water blast has to be hugely graphically intensive to be impressive. You don't need reflective surfaces (although it'd be great if the puddles did that...same with the bullet casings of Assault Rifle which only appear when you have your settings up) or image distortion when looking through the water, just something akin to the Oilstrike costume change emote.

It can be done. It doesn't need ultramode. It wouldn't require upping the min fx anymore than the costume change emote, the various water powers in-game or all the other 'extra' visuals powers create would.

Toodles.

And try my new Dark Vador burger! Look into your appetite, and you'll know it to be delicious.

And that isn't even the main point I was trying to get across. You don't have to be a pompous 'holier than though', tvtropes linking concept magi to realize there is a lot of wrong-doing in Paragon and the world. This stuff isn't isolated to just this one city (the Rikti invaded *the world*, not one city), it' just a nexus of activity. From government organizations created and centralized in Paragon, to world affecting technological megacorporations being stationed within the city. Lots of stuff is *in* Paragon City, but that doesn't make the rest of the world any safer, especially when you consider there is probably a higher concentration of powered heroes in this city vs around the world.

Yes, the various muggings in the street is a comical hyperbole of the actual situation of the in-game world, but there are bad things going on *ALL THE TIME* even if you don't see it right in front of you. Hell, in *real life*, there are robberies, r*pe, killings, assaults, and so on happening in any city of your choosing *every SECOND* that slips through the cracks of the legal enforcement system. That isn't some amusement park ideology, it's *reality*, kid. Now add aliens, corrupt scientists, MAGIC!, para-military groups, monsters/demons, alternate dimensions, high-technology, mutants and so on to that mix, and the world spirals out of control.

It's not particularly about the dozens of muggings you see going on in tandem, but the realities they represent.

You play that option, dopey. While the 'options' there are binary, you can always change the interpretation of your choice. There's no 'Engulfed by rage at the thought of the many lives sacrificed and threatened, all for some idiotic wake up call, you lash out and kills the man' choice, but that's the one I choose. He didn't even realize what he'd done (would be nice if, in later game, that choice comes back to haunt you, either with Thiery doing something crazy again because you didn't take care of him, or a new and more dangerous lunatic takes up his call who was brought about by your immoral choice of killing that man) so when asked, he basically says he doesn't remember.

Lol I hope you know you're commenting on writing you haven't read and therefore have no idea what you're talking about.

[Spoiler]

Aaron Thiery is an early contact in Atlas who you work with to fight against the Arachnos invasion going on. It's only after you risk your neck to track down a friend's wife who was kidnapped, save your friend who practically threw himself on the line to save his wife (and he has no powers, he's just a man), save them both and nearly destroy Arachnos' whole operation do you find out that the man you're working with, Thiery, actually organized the invasion himself. And he did it because other heroes, like the ones staging protests in the streets, weren't actively helping those in need.

Basically, Thiery thought that his invasion made Paragon *safer* by calling heroes to action.

So if you want to get technical before accusing someone of poor writing, there was no blanket statement, just hyperbole started by the poster you praise as saying 'there is much truth in what he said'. Thiery never accused all heroes of being lazy, he just tried calling them all to action to make his city safer. Crazy, yes, but what you accuse him of saying? Not particularly.

Is it bad writing? That isn't the point of my post, just that criticizing something you don't even know about is rather foolish.

You overestimate the effectiveness of the PPD (seriously, my villains laugh at them even when backed by a super on duty).

Or you underestimate the villains (apparently there are more villains than the cops can handle, otherwise there wouldn't be so many heroes).

Personally, I just think that is how the times change.

Yes, there will be people praising you, looking up to you, thanking you for all your hard work even if you could not prevent all the problems you encounter...but just like the internet, there will be detractors. Although the real-life 'superheroes' probably aren't the best example, you have people that feel what they try to do or stand for is good and something an entire community should strive to do...but then you have the detractors saying they're crazy, they endanger lives, that they are immoral for trying to take action against domestic issues, or even that what they stand for or try to achieve is counter to what society should promote...that you should never attempt to intervene when you can make a difference because the risk of injury or death overrides all other motivation.

I just see it as 'realism' spun a tad broadly and explored in the game...you don't have to like it, but it's basically conflict to get your character to 'feel'. You can hang your head in shame, accept the statements that you're lazy and try harder. Or declare that you aren't like all those other heroes, that you try to do good and set the standard higher for those other lazy heroes to strive for. Or just play it as Thiery being a crazed criminal who doesn't know what he's talking about and should be locked away. Or that he's a 'threat' that you need to wash away so as to cleanse the city of future issues with that man. The only option I could think they might need to add is "You're right, Thiery! Heroes are lazy! We need to fix this!"

As for your idea, meh. Don't we have those security chief guys or whatever at the zone entrances? Why not use them? Have it so, every zone has like a 'meter' that goes down for every group of villains you apprehend. But as the meter goes down, fewer foes spawn in the zone. The only real way to push that meter down to 0 is to have coordinated teams of heroes scouring the streets, combing different areas since by the time the meter is low, 1 or 2 heroes just wouldn't be able to find enough villains to put a dent in that meter...

OR you can talk to a security chief who will point you to 'hot spots'. Basically, it'd be like safeguard missions, and when you talk to the security chief, he spawns a mass group of foes for you to fight somewhere on the map. You defeat them, go back to the security chief, he spawns another, rinse repeat.

When the meter is low/0, you probably won't see any crimes on the streets at all. When the meter is high/100, you'll see more criminal activity, more burning buildings, more dyne raves, etc. I'd imagine the meter would replenish in parts, so that getting crime down by 1/4 will keep it that way for the day or two (out-of-game) but if you're between 1/2 and 3/4, it will replenish by the minutes. The goal would be to get it down from 1/4 to 0 because it'd stay at 0 for a day or two. The only issue would be those that street sweep for xp. Well, you can talk to a security chief to spawn more foes, not to mention there are just plain too many means to get xp. AE, missions, radio, tips, find-a-contact, TF, Oro...if one has to street sweep, this just means they can make a difference.

And you completely missed the point (a whole ocean liner just sailed over you!)

To an NPC, it's not a game. 'Spawning' doesn't exist. There are no devs.

But some 'wishy washy' hero thinks he can step up and change the world, stomps his feet when he can't and cries when someone points and laughs at him to say he and his entourage could do better.

Frankly, that's what makes some of my villains tick. The heroes think they can save this world, the next, the universe, the multiverse and your muffins from getting gobbled by the dog. My villains curbstomp those heroes with reality because they don't even have to be 'evil' to ruin that little fairy tail.

In summary: Someone took offense to an NPC telling them they are lazy because they're not being 'heroic' enough. Some heroes don't give a damn what some NPC thinks, they do what they can to make what they can better in their viewpoint. End of story...that's why I killed him.

Curious.

When you're rushing from one point on the map to another to join your team on a mission, do you stop when you see an old man and a lady being mugged and help them?

When you hear people yelling for help or hear the magic pulsing of a magic sacrifice, do you drop what you're doing to help them?

Screw the 'no reward because they're grey' BS. Do you stop and help them?

Do you take fly or superjump so that you can get to missions quickly? When you *KNOW* there has to be at least 15 muggings going on between you and your mission?

When you arrive to a new zone and a detective contacts you, do you rush to him to find out what shady activity is going on in the area? Do you sit and listen to the police radio, jump to stop whatever crimes you see until the radio goes quiet?

Hour after hour, day after day, do you vigilantly pursue evil and wrong-doers at the cost of a social life, sleep or your personal well-being?

For *EVERY* hero you make?

To someone crazed like Thiery, that may be the expectation of being a hero. So yes, your heroes *are* lazy.

Again, this going into the "Gotta find something to complain about" zone.

Some players don't mind some things being left unsaid. It leaves room for player interpretation, morphing the world (just a bit) to conform to your characters rather than the other way around.

And what if people don't like the directions the writers take with certain threads? "WHAAA! I'M JUST GOING TO IGNORE THAT PART!" or "THEY WERE BETTER OFF JUST KEEPING THEIR HANDS OFF OUR CONTENT!"

Even if *you* aren't going to complain about it, *someone* will. There's always going to be someone in the position you view yourself in. You can either think of it as a means to suggest improvements or complain/ragequit.

Knowledge comes with a price. You were ignorant in 2004 and now you are not. You could say a lot of the above with the old mob groups. The Lost are always preaching in the streets, what do the Trolls have to say about that? The Hellions and Skulls are always battling for turf, so how is Vahz taking advantage of this? So on and so forth.

And we're effectively sliding into the whole "People will find something to complain about...everytime" situation.

I can understand wanting more threads of content through 1st Ward...that's all I really want, really. Realistically, one person (or team) shouldn't be able to save *everything* as things going on happen inside the world which is constantly ticking. Something is going to happen elsewhere while you're saving or blowing up whatever it is you're focusing on. That my character couldn't save all the carnies, stop MM's mental experiments from continuing, stop the talons from taking hold of everyone, exterminate all the apparitions, protect every last citizen and battle off all the forces of DUST in one swoop of story is only realistic. It's just one thread of story. In the real world, things don't always get resolved at the same time either (or ever, really) which could become an ongoing problem in the future (*hey!*).

That isn't to say I disagree with you, I just think you (and a lot of others posting) really just come off as insufferably whiny needy little mouths that will never be satisfied no matter what the devs put out. Rather than complain how angsty you think things got, you could always just make suggestions to add to 1st ward instead.

And I liked the whole angle of vengeance fueling the enemy because it fit so well with my character's concept. It fit in so deeply with the character's concept that, basically, 1st ward will be *HIS* little thread of content out of all my characters. He will be the 'savior' of Eltontown and who brought the Forlorn and Carnival of Light together, gained control of his anger and vengeance and put himself on the line to help who he could.

[SPOILER]

When I had to go talk to Cerulean about that book he took only to find out he had sided with the enemy, my character was so mad, he turned half his tray into enrage inspirations and was about to chug them and knock that blue ******* into the bottom of the tunnels. But he stopped himself from using any of the reds after listening to Cerulean's dialog and found out he was being controlled.

Basically, my character was so angry and enraged, he was going to rip Cerulean apart (heck, he might have even devoured him had he not gotten control of himself). Yeah, this has no baring on the actual story, but it felt like the fury and revenge boiling in 1st ward was getting to me and my character...but he saved himself from becoming apart of the talons, even if he did end up killing the mage either way.

I'd have been amazing if the devs could have directed the choices of 1st ward that way, either resisting your rage, piously ignoring emotions or surrendered to vengeance. Any choices would have activated different threads of content...like you might be given the task of infiltrating mother's mental ward only if you are dead cold to emotional influences. Or if you gave into rage, some of those apparitions might possess you, basically becoming an 'inner contact' that leads you on a task to resolve the swirling cloud vortex and confront the Carnival and/or Diabolique.

Sort of what I had in mind myself. Basically, a Paladin/Monk type of AT where one can really do some harm but have means of doing so other than directly such as through the help of their allies.

I have personally adopted the name 'Enforcer' as the AT's title as it could mean 'enforcer of law, good and justice' or 'enforcer of your will upon others'. It can be good or bad depending on your concept.

General comparative performance:
Melee - Stalker/Blaster (1.0 I believe)
Range - Corruptor
Personal Defense - Stalker
--HP/HP cap/resistance cap = Stalker
--Shields/self buff = Blaster (the lowest of the ATs)
Buff/Debuff - Corruptor
Control - Corruptor
Damage cap - Dominator


Another question would be whether this AT should have straight melee sets or assault sets. I've heard the arguments for assault sets but I'm rather torn. Many of them are quite good but some melee sets just offer more to upfront combat, not to mention there are more of them. So melee or assault?

The difference I've always proposed for the secondary (de)buff set is newly created sets of powers specifically balanced for the 'Enforcer AT' called 'Survival' which would simply have self shields and other utilities ranging from debuffs to team buffs. This would include mez protection for the simple fact that being able to nearly ignore one of the weakpoints of your team-support peers should not be given out lightly (in a passive inherent) and probably should require sacrifice to obtain.

Who this AT should appeal to is the players that enjoy using the melee sets, like the simplicity of the melee ATs but also want to provide for a team other than being the meatshield.

But how do you keep this AT in line without overshadowing the other support? That's easy. You don't give the AT access to all the support. It's already common knowledge that a 'healer' empathy that took all the heals but skipped or doesn't use the buffs is far less useful than an empathy that knows how to use all their powers. That technically doesn't make the 'healer' empathy direction 'useless' just limited.

The example sets:

Subzero Survival:
1. Infrigidate
2. Frozen Armor
3. Snow Storm
4. Hoarfrost
5. Ice Shield
6. Wet Ice
7. Glacial Shield
8. Glacial Armor
9. Benumb or Sleet
(You get comprehensive all-around protection vs what a Def gets in APPs including mez protection but that's in exchange for some of the better debuffs like Heatloss or the extra buffs like Frostworks/Arctic Fog...and on the other side, you miss out on the extra defensive powers the Tanker gets like Energy Absorption and Hibernate)

Shadow Survival:
1. Twilight Grasp
2. Dark Embrace
3. Tar Patch
4. Petrifying Gaze
5. Shadow Fall
6. Obsidian Shield
7. Murky Cloud
8. Cloak of Fear
9. Howling Twilight

Regenerating Survival:
1. Fast Healing
2. Heal Other
3. Reconstruction
4. Absorb Pain
5. Clear Mind
6. Integration
7. Dull Pain
8. Revive
9. Regeneration Aura

Storm Survival:
1. Gale
2. Charged Armor
3. O2 Boost
4. Snow Storm
5. Steamy Mist
6. Static Armor
7. Conductive Shield
8. Lightning Field
9. Freezing Rain

Ninjutsu Survival:
1. Sneak (stealth, +def)
2. Entangling Arrow
3. Ninja Reflexes
4. Flash Arrow
5. Poison Gas Arrow
6. Kuji-In Rin
7. Danger Sense
8. Blinding Powder
9. Oil Slick Arrow or Glue Arrow

Lol I was about to post "It's the game hinting you to PUT ON A DAMNED MASK! It's a super hero game! Sheesh!"