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To give you one situation, if Tornado is only KD, it will stay on the target until it moves out of aggro range, the target dies or the power expires. If it is stuck whaling on a pair of minions and not swathing through them, it can't switch targets to the lt or boss that's mezzing me.
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People mention def/corr benefit more with the snipe. Do blasters not generally benefit more with nukes? They're generally worth less on defenders. And again people keep insisting on permathis and permathat which, IMO shouldn't be the grounds of balancing things.
No, for the billionth time, this is not a buff for blasters. No you don't need to perma it to use it or to get great effect from it. No it is not unusable without 22% tohit. -
Quote:I don't think KD is superior to KB.That ship has sailed. KB's reputation with a large amount of the playerbase is shot. Nothing that the devs would reasonable add is likely to change that. I think the power we're actually discussing proves conclusively that KB is inferior to KD in MOST (read not all) applications.
If you think about it, Tornado and Bonfire can provide significant mitigation by denying the affected foes the ability to attack back. Before this IO, this has always been true, but for the situations where those powers could not do their primary function, it was compensated...
I have no experience with Bonfire, but my gut tells me, for Fire Control, Bonfire was primarily a mid-mitigation tool on a set with moderate crowd control outside of the standard CC fare. But in the situations with fairly low mitigation (read: when AoE immobilizes are used which don't really mitigate much), Bonfire is compensated for with damage because that's what 'fire' does.
Same with Tornado. It can wreck multiple spawns and pull your buns out of the fire when Hurricane, Lightning Storm, Snow Storm and Freezing Rain aren't cutting it. However, in the situations where their mitigation cannot be relied upon, it's compensated for with damage.
It's not that KB is inferior, it's that in the situations that KB cannot help, the devs balanced some powers like these with damage. This new IO, however, throws off that balance. Either a change in direction with how these powers function is required (I wouldn't want that) or this IO needs another looking at. -
Quote:Lol you talk like what your scrappers do is something special. It's not
Thanks, but my scrappers are scrappers. I'll let them continue to act like it.. Chasing ranged damage thingies is a blaster thing..
Anyone can do what a scrapper does. It's those that don't blindly dismiss alternative tactics that are unique. -
Well, I hope someone chimes in with actual numbers but from looking at CoD...
Bonfire on a Controller deals 5.5 points of fire dmg every 2 seconds for 45 seconds so 22 tics = 121 dmg over a 45 second period. It recharges in 60 seconds so can easily be perma'ed. I have no experience with Bonfire as I have no Fire control characters so I don't know if one can summon 2 or more at once or what effect that would have on the knockback.
Comparatively, Controller Oil Slick Arrow, when ignited, deals 3.3 points of fire dmg ever 0.2 seconds for 30 seconds but only as long as you ignite it immediately. It's been a while since I played my TA/A defender so I'm unsure if the resulting fire lasts for 30 seconds or the remaining duration of the oil slick. Anyway, OSA would tic 150 times and deal 450 points of damage. OSA also recharges in 3 minutes. Technically, that's 150 dmg per minute.
Since Controllers don't get Rain of Fire, I'll look up Blaster RoF. It lasts 15 seconds and deals 1.7 points of fire dmg ever .2 seconds so 75 tics = 127 points of fire dmg. This is over 15 seconds though compared to BF's 45. RoF also recharges in 60 seconds.
Nobody mentioned it but, Controller Tornado 6.6 smashing dmg every .5 seconds for 30 seconds. The damage doesn't occur for the first second so 29 seconds. That's 58 tics of damage = 382 points of smashing damage. I do have experience with tornado and it is very possible to have 2 out at once...possibly even 3 with enough recharge I'd assume. Also, mind you, Tornado is mobile and can follow targets or move to new targets when it kills the ones near it but can only hit 5 targets at a time.
I don't see the point in comparing this to Ice Patch or Earthquake. It's already been demonstrated that the new IO slotted can make BF superior in mitigation to IP and EQ by completely shutting down foes within a 25ft radius that isn't resistant to KB up to 16 targets.
I wouldn't bother comparing anything to Blizzard. Blizzard is a nuke and has it's own balancing criteria.
From the rough calculations (that could be wrong), the way I see it, this IO makes certain powers outperform other similar powers with no discernable reason other than "I got this uberzpeshul IO". Unless you consider that a viable excuse, it's obvious this is not right. -
Quote:I agree, this is a cool name!I know we've moved past this name, but you've got it reversed. Custodis Arcana would be something like Secrets of the Keeper (the genitive case is "of the [word]" not "[word] of the"). So what you'd want would be Custos Arcanorum, which is actually a pretty cool name, and "Custos" would be a great nickname. Maybe for another character.
You missed out, Sam
I like both those parts though, Custos and Arcanorum. I wonder what other latin names one can mash together with these names. -
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Quote:What it sounds like to me is the patch shouldn't keep foes inside it perma or it should not be stackable or the effects should not be auto hit or the damage shouldn't be as significant our a combination of some of those.bonfire is simple with this proc:
* 100% chance of perma knockdown for any mob not immune. They never fight back
* is perma'd. So you have this every fight and can recast in fights
* does autohit damage, a lot of it over time, which since they can't move all hits them
* can be cast from out of LoS
I think the fix is to lower the pulse rate so enemies get a chance to fightback
What it sounds like is people are making these powers significant damage tools while exploiting control features not meant to be casually tossed about.
While I'm passive about the whole KB>KD IO, that so many attempt to defend a blatant exploit and guise it as a compromise makes me shake my head. -
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Could be considered an advantage our disadvantage, but Brute gets an aggro aura in Integration where Scrappers don't. This means a brute can effectively tank...it also means the most likely will take more dmg in the long run.
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Quote:Well I don't believe it. There has to be some miscalculation somewhere...You know, I'd actually believe this without doing the numbers out, so much more exaggerated is the effect from Drain Psyche. I think that Blasters are a particularly vulnerable AT to this effect because they have so little innate avoidance and mitigation, so that when they DO get it, it has an exaggerated effect.
70x, though, that's nuts. That like saying that if you're playing Mental Manipulation you gain a bonus of almost 85,000 max health. That's taking some getting used to in my head. -
Quote:I would have sworn Energy Torrent for melees already only does Knockdown.
If I did this on my Katana/Dark scrapper I think I'd slot up Energy Torrent with the new anti-knockdown set. Not only would that give you excellent mitigation that wouldn't scatter the enemies, but the extra 4 points of knockback protection doesn't suck for your build. You could pull a group, hop back to a corner, and do a massive knockdown to open before you jump in. By the time the enemies got back up your fear should lock them down and you can throw your heal in relative safety.
*checks*
Yup, only .67 mag KB. -
Was linked to this thread from another thread in the AT/Powers section.
Just so you know, I have kind of taken notice of your builds in the past and have had them shape other characters of mine.
That said, kudos. Although things being in yellow-red make me feel if I can fight these guys at +2/x8, I have the potential to achieve the same +4 with level shifts, it's still a feat none the less. One I have never done in the DA content.
But watching those videos, I have to say I absolutely *hate* your build
I couldn't stand playing a katana character with only Divine Avalanche, Sting, Gamblers and Lotus as my only frontal attacks. Oh man, how you can stand punching those same attacks with little variety is beyond me >_>
Also, the character feels functionally weak. Without abilities to knock the foe back (I noticed in several instances at the beginning, where mobs were out of your reach or running away, knockback would have made you seem less putzy trying to deal with it) or even presence (not the pool) to keep them attacking you, it took away from some sense of bad***ery characters of that caliber tend to have.
But if you're going for basic attacks that don't move the target like Soaring Dragon and Golden Dragonfly, why not make your Katana a Stalker? Sub in Lotus for Flashing and stick Assassin's Blade in there. Since you're primarily ST anyway, that would quickly eat through those tough targets. -
I don't care for Masterminds myself. I'll still team with them but I tend to only team with up to 2 on a team. Anymore than that and I'm probably going to tell the leader I'm calling it quits for the day. If it's a trial? I don't honestly care because the issue they cause is moot. But the issues they cause with me:
-Lag. Not all of the time though but on certain occasions it can wear on my system needing to keep up with 3+ MMs with 4-6 pets running about.
-Visual Clutter. As the game is now, when people start throwing around lots of powers, it's difficult to actually tell what's going on at times. Having 12+ extra pets throwing around more powers and obscuring the battle field so it's tough to see just how many foes there are is annoying.
-In the damned way. I heard they fixed it so pets can be moved...then I went and tried it and it's *still* a pain to get around/through pets. On close maps, it's annoying trying to get through them in a narrow hall or cave. When running to the next area (which may or may not be on a far corner of the map), it's annoying having them push through my path and alter my trajectory as the pet rushes to catch up to their master.
I still team with MMs and I don't request they use less pets or stay at a certain proximity, but I *will* limit the number of MMs I team with to cap the annoyance I am forced to deal with.
I kinda sorta wish MMs had a kind of 'leave my sight for now' command that semi-dismisses minions. The pets are still there, you just can't see or interact with them...then another 'come to me' command that calls the pets back to you in the exact same state they were in before they left. Then, at least half the annoyance of the pets' presence somewhat dealt with if the MM uses that command. I wouldn't have to deal with them getting in my way during travel, I wouldn't have to be turning and tabbing toward the end of a confrontation, wondering how many foes are still left and I wouldn't have them blocking my doors.
When it comes to players doing that stuff, well, they're people. They have rights. NPC pets don't have rights...they're just expendable minions >_> -
Quote:Well in the instances I was talking about, it's probably over half a minute or something. I mean, I've dropped like 3+ Quicksand patches on a foe to the point their movement is probably floored and since stuff like that isn't a huge aggro-grabber, if they can't actually attack me (the caster) they'll run away instead.Interesting. I don't seem to have that issue with Ice Slick. The enemies are content to run across it even with Rain of Fire pouring down over it. I mainly mention the strategy because I often see people getting frustrated because they want to include the whole mob under the slick, when its properties (big slow and highish chance for knockdown) often work best just tagging a few enemies near the front.
It's a bit different on teams, of course.
This happens a lot with multiple Quicksands and occasionally on recharge debuffed foes stuck in Snow Storm. If they can't act, they usually run.
And yeah, the only good time to place an ice patch/earthquake in the very center of a mob of foes is if you have some point of aggro that is there to draw/keep them there. It requires coordination with the tank though but even then, that generally lessens the utility of those knockdown patches as alpha-mitigators.
Quote:Yes, sort of. Have you ever been in a group where there are 3 or 4 Slicks or Quakes going on at once and the enemies just seem to "bounce" in place? It
It looks similar to that, except if a new enemy walks onto the patch, it hesitates very briefly and then falls.
It has occurred to me that I might be able to exploit this to find out the exact duration of the knockdown animation and the size of the vulnerability window. Unless someone happens to know already. I've asked a lot over the years but no one has coughed up numbers.
The way you describe Bonfire, sounds more like the spawn doing 'the wave' but at the same time -
Quote:Sorry, just had a thought and haven't logged into the game to watch someone else's Bonfire...Bonfire achieves saturation of 100% immediately after it lands. Other than the fact that it casts and travels slower than Ice Slick, by the time enemies are aware of it they are caught.
Does this mean that things flop around in unison? That is, when on Bonfire, everything slips up like a practiced choreographed action? -
Quote:Hah, I've been using that strategy with practically any movement hindering patches for a long time. It works pretty well with Snow Storm, Quicksand and the like so long as you don't leave ones self out of aggro range/out of LoS otherwise it triggers the AI's 'avoid' code and they start running the other way to escape the patch instead.Strategy note 2: if being really crafty, cast so the power only hits the guys at the front. They get slowed and have an escalating chance to fall. Everyone else runs in behind them, hits the patch, and end up stuck behind the people who fell in front of them. This works with the new Bonfire to an extent as well, and will cause some enemy groups to gather up very tightly as the unhindered baddies clump up against the ones you disabled.)
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I just thought of an IO I'd love to have:
Universal KB IO proc: converts chance of KB into 100% KB
(and for powers with 100% KB, it improves the KB mag)
Would changing Earthquake/Ice Slick into 100% chance of their .67 mag KB be overpowered? I guess it would make mobs unable to fight back at all...still, I want my Crane Kick to ALWAYS knock foos into walls -
Quote:Hmm, that's a possibility.
Why might there NOT be a nerf to the IO? Cause this proc may well be a test to see how we would break things turning KB to KD. Cause they may plan to give us more ways to turn KB into KD. If they do decide to give us more methods then I could see some POWERS getting adjusted in light of that (such as Bonfire and Tornado's KB frequency)
Personally, I'd have hoped they'd look into means of making KB more attractive too rather than just ways to remove it wholesale. -
Could probably aim a change to the proc to hinder 'persistent knockback' conversion. That is, the effect only provides KB>KD conversion *once* and not again until after a 10sec downtime. The result would be Bonfire knocking down the initial targets caught in it then knocking them back when the KB suppression wears off then goes back to KD once after 10sec...
This would also affect powers like Tornado and the like but have no affect on one-time click powers like Solar Flare or pets that use clickies like Lightning Storm. -
Quote:/Thisthe problem with these sorts of discussions is that people almost always base their opinion on one thing and don't state it, a few do.
ice blast is a high control blast set. That's its role. Rating it based on damage and ignoring its control is silly.
likewise DP has low damage but has a lot of aoe and has a stun you can use every fight. Rating it just on damage and not on utility is silly.
Fire Aura is the worst defense set - if you rate it only on protection. Because its role is damage.
That is not to say that there are not bad sets, but the commonly mentioned ones are typically ones where the person just does not like what the set does. If you don't sap, electric blast is terrible. If you do sap it can be great.
I hear ya. Totally agree. I'd actually suggest anyone adding to the discussion kind of regard the set's strengths and weaknesses when proposing a candidate.
The prospect of Peacebringers being the worst, though, I tend to wonder...if you weigh all that it has...it's damage, survivability, utility and team contribution, I'd hardly place it as worst. It does what it does decently and isn't deficient on any of them. That it's not the best at all of them or even some of the things it can do seems acceptable for being able to do so much in the first place.
I suppose my support for Stone Armor being bad is based more on visual appeal. I don't like the look of the set and nothing it has makes up for looking bad, IMO. But is the set worst? Probably not.
I still hold my opinion on Stalker Claws. Of all the sets so far, that's probably going to be at the bottom for everything but AoE to which it may come somewhat a few spots from the bottom. -
Quote:And the point of the discussion I was commenting on didn't say anything about 'sacrificing' safety for damage. This was about tools that provide safety being intrinsically less useful once you reach a certain threshold.One of the cool things about this game is that you don't have to sacrifice safety for damage.
That is, adding another layer of protection to that combo, like a Sonic Resonance or Pain Domination or using debuffs like -dmg or -end.
So the extra secondary effects, in those circumstances, are less needed and therefore are not worth as much as the alternative of more damage...or by another angle, the secondary effects' cost is too high for the lowered performance in those circumstances.
Quote:I've duoed low level SF's (at a quick pace that could rival full teams) with my Warshade and a Rad, clearly no Incarnates. I don't really see the point in having something like Force Field if efficiency or stability is your concern- Damage dealers are generally able to take care of themselves, with the exception being Blasters before lvl 50, and Blasters after lvl 50 who can't afford to be survivable.
If anything, I don't feel the secondary effects are undervalued and therefore the powers should deal more damage. I feel the secondary effects are undervalued so should *do* *more*. -
Quote:Slow teaming but safe teaming. I don't see anything wrong with that. On the low end, it hardly matters if you're not killing at a breakneck speed so long as you have the tools to eventually defeat the foe and within a specified performance margin.Nobody likes slow teaming. The consequence is that it takes more actual time invested to accomplish anything. At the very high end (Tyrant), it also means that the target might regenerate faster than its being damaged.
On the high end, that doesn't even matter. You've got interface, you've got judgement, you've got lore and hybrid. That scenario isn't and shouldn't even be on this radar. -
Quote:Better defenses? I thought Khelds had a higher resistance cap than Stalkers/Scrappers. Since everybody and their grandma can softcap defense in some manner, the only other avenues for improving survival is HP/absorb and regen. Even if Scraps got better HP caps, you'd still have to contend with Kheld's resistance caps which they *will* be sitting on a lot.No, you can't. They hit harder and have better defenses. End of story.
And of course the Scrapper will hit harder. It wouldn't be balanced if Khelds were as/more survivable than scraps *and* hit harder to boot. But beyond that, range is also a factor.
Not as a factor of survival but a factor of utility and offensive application. You say Scraps and Brutes will hit harder, but when you pick up a situation where one cannot stand around punching melee attacks in a neat attack chain because they have to move around or dodge stuff and suddenly range allows for more damage to be applied more often.
To put it plainly, while Scraps/Brutes hit harder, they are limited by melee ranges.
Quote:Which in this game, makes you useless. Thanks for playing.
Yeah, okay. Obviously, Venture doesn't know what he's talking about. He *thinks* he knows what he's talking about but he doesn't. It's like people conveniently pick apart the in-game situations while ignoring the rest. AoE is king? Well what about the situations where you're trying to destroy a single target quickly? ST DPS is the measure of power? Yeah, now what about just slaughtering a bunch of mobs *now* in the next 5 seconds rather than measuring the flow of bodies over 10 minutes?
Yeah, I'll just move along...let Venture think he knows what he's talking about and everybody's happy -
But still....Technomagic is just so....so bland.
It's almost like some of the horribly bad generic names *I* use but then I'm one of those players that cares this |___| much about names. But even I wouldn't settle for Technomagic namely because it's hardly descriptive. It's not even referring to the person, more what the person does. Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but something like Technomage or Techmage or Automagician are direct titles of a person (Mage and Magician) whereas Magic is like a descriptor of the character (tied to another descriptor) in this case.
bleh, I just don't like it. An adverb or adjective tied to the name would at least have a better ring to it like Applied Technomagic or Hi Technomagic, then it's modifying the adjective to be more like a noun and therefore a title for the character.
I'm pretty sure there are hero/villain names that are purely adjectives but they're probably the minority. When someone speak a persons name though, wouldn't you want it to be unambiguously referring to a person, place or thing? Rather than possibly a description of something?
I have some characters who use names like that too, but feel it gives the characters identity if it's solidly referring to the person: a scientist of mine who builds automatons that can wield magic like Tin Mage I named 'Technomage Morrison' (his name is Dr. Morrison), my semi-sentai obsessed engineer of tech suits that allow her to wield magic I named 'Magitech Maiden' and so forth. I don't consider them good names but they are solid.
Technomagic doesn't feel that way to me. But Black Technomagic? Hi Technomagic? Biotech Magic? [Something] Technomagic?