Kruunch

Actually his defense is off too (not his numbers but what is what). He soft caps Energy/NegEng and near soft caps Fire/Cold but has S/L at 25%. Also, all things being equal, it's usually very easy to slide in up to +100% regen on set bonuses while still getting other stuff (like +recharge) out of your IOs.

Doc: It appears this is a PvP build (judging by the KO protection and funky slotting) is that correct?

If you're looking to branch out into more PvE I would grabbing Reactive Armors (fairly cheap) for your resist slotting and Kinetic Combats (haven't checked lately on price) for your melee attacks. That will notch your S/L resists by as much as 10-15%.

Also you might consider not worrying about the +damage set bonuses (even for PvP) in favor of +regen and + (typed) defense (S/L being your priority even for PvP). They only enhance base damage (afaik) and the increases turn out to be fairly poor.

*EDIT* To the OP: As Sarrate points out, WP Tankers' survivability really increase greatly from +defense. WP Tankers base off of types defense (Heightened Senses) so you will probably want to work with IO sets (when you get to them) that raise those rather than the ones that raise positional defenses first (i.e. melee, ranged, aoe). Next you should worry about maxHP and then regen, in order of what to do to increase survivability.

Very true but he doesn't have a lot of +MaxHealth either (HPT is slotted incorrectly imo).

Leave it to Arc to explain lore with in-game mechanics

I would love more resist IOs but that's a really slippery slope.

With soft capped defense you're still going to be hit fairly regularly when dealing with large packs and/or mobs above level and minion tier.

Add in capped (or near cap depending on what we're talking about) resists (even just S/L resists) and all of a sudden you have a virtually untouchable character. Also resists can't be bypassed (or rather there are very few resist debuffs in the PvE game) and work equally as well against even conned minions and +4 AVs (whereas Defense scales due to minimum chance to hit).

Tank-mages would come in the form of Blasters (and Trollers for that matter) with soft-capped defenses and capped (per AT) resists (remember Blasters and Trollers get fairly high value resist shields via their APPs). Scrappers would be merrily soloing full spawned TFs (including the AVs) .... Brutes could finally tank (zing!) .... cats and dogs living together ... mass hysteria!

I have your Hasten being around 91 seconds off perma with that build (something like 60s with Hasten on auto-toggle).

Also Vitality is correct in that your regen is a bit low. My WP Tanker has around 640% with w/1 foe in place (I'd estimate you'd want 600% as a benchmark for doing things like the ITF and such comfortably (secondary mitigation not withstanding)).

Out of curiosity why wouldn't you use Shield Charge against an AV? Wouldn't it only serve to up a Tanker's DPS?

Yep I agree with that. Scrappers in general are much more expensive to build in my experience (my Spines/Fire Scrapper on a cheap build has cost me twice of any other character to date (about 150mil)). Jebe is in the process of outfitting his BS/Shields Scrapper and he's looking at something close to 500mil (and you still end up stuck with the healing issue).

*EDIT* On a side note, BS/Fire Scrapper would make for a real interesting (and expensive) combo. You can get about 30% ranged and melee defense and 50%+ S/L resists on a */Fire Scrapper pretty easily. Add to that the Defense from Parry and the pseudo-regen of Healing Flames, and that could be a very nice combo (hmmm next project maybe).

Depends what you plan on doing with your Tanker (solo, team, both ... TFs, regular missions, AEs, PvP, PvE, etc ...)

Gratz bruddah!

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Which is better for PvP? My Scrapper DM/SD is killed instantly in 1v1 PvP.

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That sounds like a bug to me...

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It used to be Defensive heavy sets were great for PvP but I think with the proliferation of global accuracy this is in reverse now.

Shields (whether Scrapper or Tanker) is very prone to high +toHit/accuracy sources of damage. The answer to this is to overcap Defense as much as possible via IOs, but this would lower your offensive capabilities (and obviously Scrappers would be on the losing end of this).

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But then Shield Defense should get you that DPS right back. I think it's a good AV soloing candidate with the right build.

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Shield Defense would present more Endurance woes no? (thinking avid use of Shield Charge with the same end useage as Inv just from the toggles / Active Defense combo).

I would also think survivability would be an issue with SD unless something like Aid Self or Dark Melee is used, as the AV will hit you even with overcapped Defense.

This is where primary and secondary synergy really come into play in my mind (is also why I really like SD/DM).

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It's easier to add offense to a tanker than it is to add defense to a scrapper IMO.

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Can you elaborate? This is the opposite of my thinking so I'm interested to know where you're coming from.

When I look at the IOs and pool powers out there, I dunno, seems easier to add damage mitigation to a scrapper than damage to a tanker.

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Tankers start with higher base numbers for their defensive powers including pool powers such as CJ/Hover/Weave. An SD Tanker with CJ/Hover and Weave can just about hit soft cap defense in all positions ... a Scrapper cannot.

IO slotting definitely equalizes this.

As Grey Pilgrim points out, Tankers have a higher Health pool. This is extremely important with Shield Tankers as they have no heals and even with soft capped defense you *will* be hit. Regen rates are based off of Health totals as well, as are heals in this game for set combos such as SD/DM.

Shield Tankers are just a smidge above Fire Tankers for squishiness in my experience. Ever hear of a tough */Fire Scrapper?

I've run both and I preferred the Tanker version but I prefer Tankers in general.

The only detrimental thing I can say about the Scrapper version is that you will get agro constantly with AAO and I've seen quite a few (good) Shield Scrappers go splat often while leveling up and even at 50. Takes some getting used to.

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Incidentally anyone try a Dark/EM Tanker? I would think that combo would actually work fairly well (OG + Whirling Hands).

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Yes, I've stated many times I run a Dark/EM Tank.

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And how do you like it?

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Meh. Don't care. I've got 2 EM tankers. Enjoy playing both of them ...

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Ultimately this is the most important goal with any of the sets within the framework of the game.

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Right now, even my calculator lists Stone Melee with a 2.00 score on single target damage.

The weakest scrapper is spines with a 1.8 ST score.

So we have that current Stone Melee can match low end scrapper dps (high end tank with just SOs vs Low end scrapper with just SOs)

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And I assume this doesn't take the Scrapper's criticals into account? If that's the case, even Spines becomes a better single target option over SM through prolonged fights (combined with the endurance issues mentioned makes it a no brainer).

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But then you could kind of say the samething about Stone and Super Strength too no?

I don't disagree that EM would be more attractive with more AOE btw.

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Say what about Stone or Super Strength? Whirling Hands vs. Fault and Tremor vs. Footstomp? Unless they upped Whirling Hands to Dominator radius, it's not even close to those other powers.

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Fault doesn't do damage and while Footstomp outperforms Whirling Hands on a practical level it still leaves SS with one damaging AOE (same as EM and SM).

The problem with EM isn't that it doesn't do enough damage ... it's that its damage is all back loaded and now (as of the ET change) clunky.

So I think if anything were to be changed it would be to revert ET's animation back to the original and bleed off some damage to add to Energy Punch and Whirling Hands (either/or).

If we're keeping the sets in line, Stun should be changed to an AOE (ala Fault and Handclap) and its damage removed.

But I agree with the other posters who say that EM is underwhelming to play currently. My EM Tanker and EM Stalker both have been collecting dust for awhile now.

Incidentally anyone try a Dark/EM Tanker? I would think that combo would actually work fairly well (OG + Whirling Hands).

I heard DA didn't pass California's emission standards and is now banned in that state.

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I don't understand why the devs would make one armor so vastly different than the rest, especially a resist based one. If I'm getting shot with fire/smashing attacks, I want to resist both, not have to choose which I resist just to save end.

*shrug*

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While I can't claim to know the details of how the devs broke down DA armor, historically speaking the direction of this game was to offer as wide a variety across the scope of power sets as possible.

That's why Invuln/Ice/Fire/Stone all operate on different mechanisms, as opposed to all operating identically with different animations and FX.

It would seem that mode of design carried over to DA/WP/Shields as well.

The same could be said of the secondaries as well.

Seems a lot of Dark Armor tankers have similar complaints. Apparently DA is a late bloomer?

I've seen L40+ DA Tankers run will good results.

Generally speaking when Tankers say they are "rivaling" Scrapper DPS they generally mean they are putting out good DPS ... for a Tanker.

I don't think it's physically possible for a Tanker to actually match the DPS on an equally built Scrapper (single target versus AOE not withstanding).

Depends your build. I have it on my WP Tanker and use it occasionally under extreme alphas and/or AV situations. It comes in handy but not a "must have".

It becomes more important if your WP Tanker isn't built to be a team Tanker but you're trying to use it as such (i.e. no Tough/Weave and/or defensive components).

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The animation system *itself* is a very complex system, but the connection between the powers system and the animation system is, if a bit Rube Goldbergian, not very complex or fragile.


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I sometimes think Arc is Dennis Miller.

I think J_B is just frustrated that his mechanic told him it wasn't easy to drop a 442 V8 into his Honda Civic.

His Civic being held together by chewing gum and hated by Honda and all.

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According to Starsman's latest charts, Energy Melee is inferior to Fire as well as Stone in single target attacks, in both damage output and endurance efficiency.



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I might have read Starsman's charts wrong but it seems to me that Energy Melee is the second best endurance performer (beating SM by a mile) and tied for second with Fire for single target damage.

This kind of jibes with my experience as well (although its been a god's age since I've played FM).

I assume Fire is up there due to lack of mitigation/control/utility and Stone Melee is a notorious end hog due to the speed of its single target attack chain.

I'm not sure I would go as far as to say EM was broken either before or after the "fix" (guess it depends on your definition of broken here). I personally don't think the fix was needed, especially with the toggle fix for PvP.