Johnny_Butane
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I'd wager there more of them than there are invulnerable types who hit like little girls. But, to the point, consider characters like Starfire who definitely has superhuman strength, definitely does ranged blasts as her primary means of attack, but isn't "invulnerable". Now consider that all characters in CoH have enhanced toughness. All of them can take a few shotgun blasts to the chest at point blank. All of them can jump 10 feet straight up.Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
The issue I would have is that I find it hard to imagine someone who is superstrong but not have some degree of enhanced toughness.
I don't personally object to this, but like I said, it took us this long just to get Martial Combat.Quote:I wouldn't want a direct port. I would like to see some KB protection, and perhaps something like Rise to the Challenge from WP. I.e. modded like MA.
I don't see why they have to be mutually exclusive.Quote:I would much rather wait longer for something good, than have something rubbish right now.
Temp Invul in the Force epic doesn't turn Blasters into Scrappers. The epics don't fill holes completely and it wouldn't fill them any more if it was available at level 8 or 10. But earlier they would allow people to better realize their concepts instead of playing the character for a long time with them lacking one more thing that makes them unique. If you have a character like Deathstroke who's got a deep arsenal but favours melee, why does the worlds greatest assassin have to wait until the early 40s just to get a freaking pistol? (assuming Scrappers ever got a Firearms epic pool).Quote:Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
But earlier than that I think ruins the point of using them to fill in holes in your AT.
We can't have a freeform system, and ditching ATs isn't an option, but I'm for giving players as much freedom to realize any reasonable concept as possible without so many silly restrictions. Allowing a Scrapper to have Fire Blast or Laser Eye Beams at all but saying "but not until you're 40 levels into the character" is one such silly restriction, IMO.
I ask: why should superheroes have deep holes at all?Quote:If you can fill in the holes early in your career, what's the point in having holes?
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Quote:Maybe now that Pool powers got a pass, Epic/Tertiary pools can get an overhaul.Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, not necessarily broken, but the shuriken attacks costs about the same as other ancillary attacks, but have absolutely no secondary effect to go with them, making them rather inefficient powers to use.
The whole pool is kinda a bust. The attacks have no secondary effects, web grenade versus ring of fire is no contest (or any immob that does damage, especially on a Scrapper), Targeting Drone is pretty weak on Scrappers for a decently high End cost, and Caltrops is Caltrops. Basically, the whole Weapon Mastery pool is a bit lackluster, and any other option would be a better choice.
Namely, expanding on their depth and the number of them for each AT, expanding on the concepts/themes they cover (like letting melee ATs have gun attacks now that Blasters can do martial arts).
Also, I'd love if they would lower their level requirements so they're more integrated with your build instead of an afterthought that doesn't come into play until you're almost 50. In other words, treat them more like a true Tertiary power set that's relatively as important as Primary and Secondaries.
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Quote:That's not what the Cottage Rule means.Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Cottage Rule, hello?
They can't uproot the entire blaster secondary so it can be all melee.
Quote:An existing power will not have its core functionality and purpose changed, though its strength may be altered and effects secondary to the power's true purpose may be added or removed.
This isn't altering an existing power and making it do something completely different. Giving Blasters access to the melee attack sets doesn't take anything away from or alter existing Blasters.
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Quote:Depends on the set. Foot Stomp and Hand Clap, hello?Originally Posted by Mad Grim
Because if they had only melee for secondaries they would be even more fragile
Still, let the player make the choice if the combo doesn't work. It took them 8 years to adapt a Martial Arts-ey Blaster secondary. I don't feel like waiting another 8 for Dual Blades, SS or StJ. Or Staff or Axe or whatever someone might want. Give us the sets and if they're lame on Blasters, so be it. At least we'd have the option, which we don't now.
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Quote:True story: I once watched a video of jack giving a closed doors presentation of a pre-release CoH at some event. ATs in some form were in at that point, because IIRC he listed them all off. He made a Blaster and was showing off some of the possible sets, and SS was one of the secondaries.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Hey now! He is also proposing SS and Rage for blasters. He is welcome here!
I've always wondered why they didn't just let Blasters have the melee sets as secondaries because the stuff like the ST immobs they did put in Blaster secondaries were always so underwhelming to me.
BTW, if anybody knows where to find that video again, I'd love the URL. It's not one of the 'old CoH' videos that usually makes the rounds on the forums and it's been years since I've seen it.
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Quote:Based on past comments, I suspect Arcanaville may actually agree with me about Blasters with Rage.Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
And you wonder why people don't listen to your ideas on 'game balance.'
When I use the official description of Tankers to justify why Tankers should be "devastating hand to hand combatants" who can "dish out all sorts of damage" you and others say the official descriptions don't matter.Quote:From Paragonwiki:
The Blaster is an offensive juggernaut...{SNIP}
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Quote:Only in the sense of where Tankers start out for soloing. IE, what I said about Brutes starting from a better damage to survivability ratio for what the game actually demands.Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
It will be interesting to see what happens with Bio Armor.
In theory, Tankers will be able to complete most game content with Offensive Adaptation; but Brutes will have to make a lot more use of Defensive and Efficient Adaptations.
So this should, to some degree, level things out.
Brutes are more optimal for soloing than Tankers, yet have the buffability for team content.
So yes, Bio will allow for better soloing on low end Tankers. But, AFAIK, Offensive Adaptation still only works with +damage buffs. Meaning on many teams it's mostly pointless because of the Tanker's low damage cap. And high end Tankers can hit their cap solo without a damage boosting primary, so Bio Offensive only gets them to that same wall faster/sooner.
Ultimately, Brutes will still be able to capitalize more on all three stances in more situations because they have a greater envelope to work with.
But really, what's the difference of a Tanker running in Offensive Adaptation all the time and a Fire/whatever Tanker? If Fire doesn't 'level things out' why would Bio Offensive? Yes, it's nice to have another option for an offensively geared Tanker, and Bio comes with more flexibility (the whole point of the set) but I don't think Bio Armour on it's own will "fix" anything with Tanker and Brutes.
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Quote:And yet, when I use that exact same argument for Tankers, you disagree.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The problem is, Blasters aren't RANGED ATs, they never were. If they were designed as such they never would have been given melee abilities in the first place.
But, as far as I'm concerned, they should just give Blasters straight up access to all the melee attack sets as secondaries. Why not? I see no need to adapt them in most cases.
Just let them have Martial Arts. Or Street Justice or Super Strength. Yeah, I'm prepared to let Blasters have Rage. It'd be a hoot.
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Quote:IIRC, it's Thunder Kick in name only. It has a new (and shorter from the looks of it) animation and presumably better DPA.Originally Posted by EricHough
Thunder kick strikes me as a bad power to port to the dom set, since its the worst DPA attack in martial arts and its a fast recharge, T1 attack - I would have expected you to port the tier 2, storm kick instead, just like dark assault ported smite. Even if you up the recharge/damage on thunder kick I think the storm kick animation is a lot more fun.
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Brute ratio of survivability to damage is more optimal to the game than a Tanker's. Often the Tanker's survivability is overkill. If Brutes truly died so much that it had a negative impact on them, they wouldn't be tied with Scrappers for most popular AT, while Tankers are closer to the bottom because most players don't want to take a big hit to damage for a minor decrease in how often they faceplant.
Brute damage potential versus their survivability potential blows that of Tankers out of the water. A Brute can be made as durable as a Tanker, shy 10% max HP but Brute damage potential is much greater than 10% more than the Tanker's. They are irrefutably numerically superior to Tankers.
In other words, Brutes start off arguably with more of what they need to get the job done (and do it faster than Tankers), only get better with IOs, Incarnate powers, etc and their maximum potential is far greater than Tankers.
Furthermore, Tankers cause more of their own bad press by acting like bossy, entitled control freaks who won't tolerate sharing aggro because frankly that's all they've got.
As fair as I'm concerned, two things need to happen with Tankers.
-They need to have their damage cap brought in line with Brutes'.
-They need an extensive image makeover that consists of no less than a new and interesting combat mechanic that adds some much needed flash and pizzazz to the AT to kill the perception they are feeble fighters and are just slow and lumbering Brutes.
Something to sell them to players other than aggro control because A)that's obviously a niche interest since Brutes are kicking their butts and nobody takes the existing Presence pool for the taunts and B)since side switching there are three other ATs now intended to share the tanking duties to some degree and two more that affect other forms of crowd control.
It's a dead end for Tankers to continue to overspecialize and play up a niche further that's rapidly becoming less relevant to the game.
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Quote:It wouldn't be too hard to cook up a 'natural' control set. Less than lethal weapons and the existing Devices set could be a place to look for inspiration. Gas grenades for various effects. Beanbag guns. Grab ol' flying turret and beef it up a little for the T9 pet.Originally Posted by Zandock
The problem I have with Martial Assault is just no natural primary to go with it. Shurikens + Martial Arts works awesomely for a Batman style character, but not if I have to pair it up with Mind Control or something.
EDIT: Not to say that the set isn't interesting. This is just a nitpick. I'm still rather excited to be able to try this out.
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We still need a few more Blaster Secondary sets in a similar vein for Super Strength, Dual Blades and other melee weapon-ey concepts.
And from the other direction; ways to realize Dual Pistols, Energy Blast and such on Scrappers and other melee ATs.
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Quote:In addition to that, they space out big ticket items like power sets and SSA episodes. They just released SSA 2 #2 last week, so this week there's nothing 'big' in the market.Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
You do realize that having just released Water Blast not that long ago, that the odds are rather low that they'll be releasing either Bio Armor or Nature Affinity in the immediate future, right? And that the odds of both sets being released at the same time is even lower than that?
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They should refer back to the first CoH trailer and have him holding up a couple of kids on his shoulders.
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Quote:Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Why do you believe this? What evidence do you have to support this belief? You are aware that CoH just had it's eighth birthday, yes? By the above measure it should keel over dead sometime next week.
Ultima Online launched in 1997. It's still running and still getting content updates. In just over a month it will be celebrating it's fifteenth anniversary. Ultima is published by EA and you may trust me when I tell you that there is no publisher in the industry that will kill an underperforming game faster than EA will. Hell, they'll kill a game that's performing adequately just because they don't want to be bothered with it.
There is absolutely no reason to believe that City of Heroes, or any other game, is living under some sort of magical but unspecific deadline after which it will die an inglorious death no matter what shape it is in subscriptions-wise.
Assuming that NCSoft does not somehow go bankrupt or otherwise endanger its operations, the game will go on for as long as people are willing to play it and pay for it and it continues to turn a profit. The assumption that everyone will eventually just stop playing it because it's old has so many counter-examples in the industry now that it seems silly when I continue to run into people who believe that "shiny" is the only reason anybody plays a MMO.
Hell, Star Wars Galaxies is the poster child for how to run a MMO into the ground, and it was not shut down for being unprofitable. It was killed by LucasArts to insure that Old Republic would have no direct competition. It was not turning a huge profit, but it WAS turning a profit and it was still getting content updates.
There is no expiration date on CoX. Of all the reasons to make a successor game, that is the reason that is least likely to influence anybody in a position to actually make such a game.
I can only speak for myself, but I don't want this game to be it for the IP. I remember a time when 'City of Heroes' was more than just this game. It used to be a comic series, novels, a CCG, HeroClix. IMO, it deserves better than a slow death long past its prime.
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Positron said on a uStream that they would be phasing out Shards.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
It depends on how it's done. For instance, the old PSX game Fighting Force did it marvellously, mostly because the bulk of its combat revolved around finding pieces you could grab and hit people with. Punch a coke machine and grab the iron bars that fall out, then break them over people's heads. Punch it again and take the air compressor that comes out, smash that into someone's head. Punch it again and drink the cans that fall out for extra health. Or walk into a lift and notice there are four metal bars you can pull out from the railing, an emergency fire axe and a fire extinguisher. It was quite glorious
Champions Online, on the other hand, was a pretty bad example. That game gave you a ton of non-situational powers to use that were usually a lot easier to use and generally better than chucking sign posts and park benches at people. Plus, the whole act of throwing things just looked goofy. No flight arcs, no sense of weight, no sense of impact, always the same animation and everything explodes into nothingness.
In a game that's built around environment interaction, throwing things would work wonders, but it would also be limited to "categories" of things you can throw. In a game that isn't, though? Yikes!
Same for grappling, actually. The only way to grapple with enemies is to standardise their size and shape, and that just limits the game considerably. The most you could do is an ugly gorilla press pickup that rarely looks good.
I want to chime in here.
Done well, environmental interaction and destruction creates new and interesting gameplay.
Imagine on a team an Ice Controller freezing an enemy in a block of ice and the Brute picking it up and throwing it at some more enemies.
Or lifting up a car with telekinesis, having the Fire Blaster light it up and then throwing it into a spawn where it explodes.
Imagine a Tanker picking up some machinery and using it up block an ambush from getting through a door.
Throwing cars and tossing people through walls (and getting knocked through walls) is what comic book super heroes are all about. Without the over the top action and destruction the combat will always be lacking.
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Quote:I presume that you are not adopted or don't know anyone who is.Originally Posted by Matuse
Who he is? There's nothing to explore there. Batman was old enough to remember his parents getting killed. That creates some character right away. Superman was an infant with no knowledge at all of his birthplace. You can't miss where you've never been.
The drive to find out where he comes from, what his people were about and then ultimately, to live up to the ideals of both of his fathers are the driving forces the shape who Clark became.
That's as least as valid as the spoiled rich tortured man-child who dresses like a bat crying out for mommy and daddy.
The same applies to Batman. His plans never fail; he manages to plan for everything and even when he doesn't, unrealistic luck saves him. His aim never errs when it counts. He'll never catch a bullet to the face from one of the twenty mooks shooting at him. He always has the equipment he needs and it never breaks or runs out. He just happened to have to have an amazing aptitude for detective work, hand to hand fighting, piloting, science and every other skill he needs and found the time to develop them all to a world class calibre.Quote:While Superheroes win, with Superman there's simply no possibility that he could lose.
Again, ALL of that applies to Batman as well. And Flash. And Green Lantern.Quote:With Superman you have the impossibly good looking, impossibly perfect height/weight, impossibly uber powerset, impossibly maintained secret identity, impossible everything else that just drains all interest from what is going on.
A standard robbery is a curbstomp for Batman. He'd effortlessly disarm them and leave them hanging from the ceiling.Quote:There's just no downside to Superman. Batman can get an interesting story dealing with a grocery hold up or a mugging.
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I love the first mission because it's a clever inversion on the standard CoH mission because you play the role of the mission Boss.
Think about it: The NPCs on the map are allied with you against a singular intruder.
You arrive after Professor Echo has taken out some Longbow and triggered an alarm.
This is his mission and you are the ambush.
And after he's unable to defeat you after multiple attempts, he returns with Summon Shivan.
Brilliant!
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Quote:Originally Posted by MentalMaden
Totally agree, Local. While I get the nostalgia for the Reeves Superman, I don't think they stand up well over time and look sooooooo outdated and cheesy.
My only issue is we're getting another Supes origina story. I only hope they get it right so we don't have to see another one anytime soon. We all know the story by now, even people who aren't into comics and comic culture. Please can we move on. And please no more billionaire real estate plots. Give him a credible super powered enemy and lets see Superman actually doing something beyond picking up big things.
As for Snyder, he seems to do fine with someone elses story/IP than his own. (I'm looking at you SuckerPunch) With Nolan and hiss track record adapting things, here's hoping we aren't getting another reboot in 5 years.
I took a look at Superman Returns today after watching the MoS trailer. I hadn't watched it since I saw it in the theater. I skipped ahead to the literally two scenes I thought were decent; the plane rescue sequence and the rooftop chaingun scene. I thought my memory had exaggerated how bad the rest was. It had not.
The scene before the plane sequence, had Luthor and Kumar testing the crystal fragment on the model railroad. When the model trains derailed and the plastic rockslide crushed the wooden people, they put screams in. It's supposed to be this dramatic build up and they have little wooden models with dubbed in screams. That is the worst of the Reeves films; the terrible camp that Richard Donner hated and bucked against that the studio insisted on. Exactly what killed the series with the terrible Superman III. Off all the classic elements of the 70's films, they take their cues from the scene with people getting hit in the face with ice cream and toupees blowing off.
Singer loved Reeves and Donner's work and I do too. But he couldn't even tell the good from the bad and what was the true heart of the film and what was executive meddling and hacked in.
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Quote:May I ask, what would it take for you to like them? Is it that they have less damage than a Scrapper period and that means they're automatically out, or is there a point you could reduce the damage penalty where they'd become attractive to you?Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
I don't play takers because I don't like them. I don't like that their defensive set is their primary. I don't like the idea behind them as a game-play element, and I don't like the lower damage they (generally) have when compared to scrapers. To me they are a throwback to the old Tank, heal, nuke trinity of MMO classes.
Also, would Tankers become more attractive to you if they offered a unique combat style/mechanic (Stalkers have 'hide and poke', Scrappers have random crits and Brutes have 'chase the Fury bar') even if it didn't increase their damage all that much?
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Quote:Mind if I quote you on that?Originally Posted by Bronze Knight
Well I don't play tankers, not enough damage.
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Quote:What do you think I took instead of Taunt.Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
As amusing as the thought it, there are two sides to that coin. I am sure we have all heard a tank ask for heals or buffs...
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I can't justify it on many builds. It's a situational power that does little for the person taking it and I find even less appeal in it if I have a ranged attack because that serves the same purpose and deals damage. On a Tanker or Brute, I don't think it should even cost them a power pick.
And one way of looking at it with the upcomming pool changes: Why should I take Taunt? Why didn't you take the Presence pool placate?
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Quote:"Go big or go home" is the expression I believe.Originally Posted by Tyger42
Hell, even the giant elephant of an MMO in the room doesn't do TV ads often. They did a batch a while back, but generally don't bother. 'course, they're already huge and they used actual celebrities for theirs...
Advertising-wise, CoH doesn't leave the house much anymore.
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