Jebe_the_Pirate

No matching means no stacking.

I'm working on a fearmonger build which uses DM and the presence pool. So far the presence pool costs anywhere from 2.4-4.1 times more endurance than CoF and the aoe is only 10% more accurate. I'm not scared of the end usage, I'm just concerned with how big of a drop it will be to my defense. Once I'm done I'll post it and then you can see if it's something that you can work with.

/stone



Anyway, I remember making a dual blades/DA scrapper and that was fun.

@ Posterchild

Knock, Knock...

I have a build lined up for my lvl 32 da/stone. It's pretty lean on end use and makes more end recovery than my da/dm. Add to that 3 aoe stuns! Yeah it's overkill but it's fun overkill.

[ QUOTE ]
I think DM specifically makes Shields shine as an all round Tanker set imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you go home and get your shine box!

Honestly, I hope it's a geometry fix. This would affect my flying cone defenders!

One thing I should add about reslotting Siphon Life...

If you remove the healing IO's and replacing them with Kinetic Combat from brawl, you'll be losing the +max end and accuracy bonus. Although you can find the accuracy elsewhere, you will have a harder time finding the +max end. Resocketing CoD and weave with 4 slot GotA will not work as you are at the 5cap for 1.8 +max end. For my taste, I'd rather not lose set bonuses instead of slots in a power I hardly use in order to get said bonuses. Apart from that, it's a very small trade off between end recovery, max hp, and def so I don't factor these into deciding whether or not to resocket. It's a matter of preference.


Edit: Oh yeah, I almost forgot...

The presence build is turning into a real project. It's not the easiest thing to balance out but it looks like there is some potential if you can get past the fear redundancy. Depending on how it turns out, I'll post it here for critiques.

The energy defense is high for the energy only damage, that stuff will eat through your hp if your defense isn't high enough.

As for slotting brawl, you don't have to since you can always slot Siphon Life for defense bonus from Kinetic Combat, which will free up some slots and you can allocate them as you like. If you do, I suggest looking for an accuracy bonus somewhere since you're losing that from touch of the nictus. It's something I've contemplated myself and may do in the future.

I don't think this build is expensive at all, but that's a matter of perspective.

I'm really thinking of writing a guide, maybe one which will include a presence build. Oh well, off to WW farming I go!

Here you go.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Dark Embrace
(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 40
(9) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge: Level 40
(9) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
(11) Reactive Armor - Resistance: Level 40
(11) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30
(13) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection: Level 30


Level 1: Shadow Punch
(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
(3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
(5) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
(7) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35


Level 2: Smite
(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
(3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
(5) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
(7) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35


Level 4: Shadow Maul
(A) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/ToHitDebuff: Level 30
(13) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
(43) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
(45) Eradication - Damage: Level 30
(46) Eradication - Damage/Recharge: Level 30
(50) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30


Level 6: Obsidian Shield
(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 40
(15) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge: Level 40
(15) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
(17) Reactive Armor - Resistance: Level 40


Level 8: Murky Cloud
(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 40
(17) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge: Level 40
(19) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
(23) Reactive Armor - Resistance: Level 40


Level 10: Taunt
(A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50


Level 12: Combat Jumping
(A) Kismet - Accuracy +6%: Level 30


Level 14: Super Jump
(A) Jumping IO: Level 50


Level 16: Swift
(A) Run Speed IO: Level 50


Level 18: Health
(A) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 40
(19) Miracle - Heal: Level 40
(48) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 50


Level 20: Stamina
(A) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
(21) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
(21) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50


Level 22: Death Shroud
(A) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 30
(23) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
(27) Eradication - Damage: Level 30
(29) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
(29) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
(34) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50


Level 24: Dark Regeneration
(A) Theft of Essence - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
(34) Theft of Essence - Accuracy/Endurance/Healing: Level 30
(40) Theft of Essence - Chance for +Endurance: Level 30
(40) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration: Level 50
(40) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
(42) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50


Level 26: Boxing
(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
(31) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
(31) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
(31) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35


Level 28: Tough
(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 40
(33) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge: Level 40
(33) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
(33) Reactive Armor - Resistance: Level 40


Level 30: Weave
(A) Defense Buff IO: Level 50
(34) Defense Buff IO: Level 50
(36) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50


Level 32: Cloak of Fear
(A) Cloud Senses - ToHit Debuff: Level 30
(36) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/ToHitDebuff: Level 30
(36) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
(37) Cloud Senses - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
(37) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50
(37) Nightmare - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50


Level 35: Soul Drain
(A) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff: Level 20
(42) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff/Recharge: Level 20
(42) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
(43) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
(43) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 30


Level 38: Midnight Grasp
(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
(39) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
(39) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
(39) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35


Level 41: Touch of Fear
(A) Accuracy IO: Level 30


Level 44: Siphon Life
(A) Touch of the Nictus - Healing: Level 50
(45) Touch of the Nictus - Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration/Recharge: Level 50
(45) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Healing: Level 50
(46) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Heal/HitPoints/Regeneration: Level 50
(46) Touch of the Nictus - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50


Level 47: Dark Consumption
(A) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
(48) Eradication - Damage/Recharge: Level 30
(48) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 30
(50) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30


Level 49: Cloak of Darkness
(A) Defense Buff IO: Level 40
(50) Defense Buff IO: Level 40


------------
Level 1: Brawl
(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage: Level 35
(25) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance: Level 35
(25) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge: Level 35
(27) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 35


Level 1: Sprint
(A) Run Speed IO: Level 50


Level 2: Rest
(A) Empty


Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
28.6% Defense(Smashing)
28.6% Defense(Lethal)
3% Defense(Fire)
3% Defense(Cold)
20.5% Defense(Energy)
20.5% Defense(Negative)
3% Defense(Psionic)
15.8% Defense(Melee)
11.8% Defense(Ranged)
3% Defense(AoE)
15.8% Max End
6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
5% Enhancement(Heal)
9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
295.2 HP (15.8%) HitPoints
Knockback (Mag -4)
Knockup (Mag -4)
MezResist(Confused) 5%
MezResist(Held) 5%
MezResist(Immobilize) 23.2%
MezResist(Sleep) 5%
MezResist(Stun) 5%
MezResist(Terrorized) 5%
4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration



------------
Set Bonuses:
Reactive Armor
(Dark Embrace)
MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.63% Defense(Melee)


Steadfast Protection
(Dark Embrace)
1.5% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
3% Defense(All)
Knockback Protection (Mag -4)


Kinetic Combat
(Shadow Punch)
MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
28.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Melee)


Kinetic Combat
(Smite)
MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
28.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Melee)


Cloud Senses
(Shadow Maul)
Status Resistance 2.5%
2.25% Max End


Eradication
(Shadow Maul)
1.8% Max End
3.13% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.56% Defense(Ranged)


Reactive Armor
(Obsidian Shield)
MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.63% Defense(Melee)


Reactive Armor
(Murky Cloud)
MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.63% Defense(Melee)


Miracle
(Health)
2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery


Eradication
(Death Shroud)
1.8% Max End
3.13% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.56% Defense(Ranged)
42.2 HP (2.25%) HitPoints


Theft of Essence
(Dark Regeneration)
10% (0.78 HP/sec) Regeneration
1.8% Max End


Touch of the Nictus
(Dark Regeneration)
35.1 HP (1.88%) HitPoints


Kinetic Combat
(Boxing)
MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
28.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Melee)


Reactive Armor
(Tough)
MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.63% Defense(Ranged)
1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.63% Defense(Melee)


Cloud Senses
(Cloak of Fear)
Status Resistance 2.5%
2.25% Max End
6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)


Rectified Reticle
(Soul Drain)
1.88% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.94% Defense(Melee)


Eradication
(Soul Drain)
1.8% Max End
3.13% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.56% Defense(Ranged)


Kinetic Combat
(Midnight Grasp)
MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
28.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Melee)


Touch of the Nictus
(Siphon Life)
35.1 HP (1.88%) HitPoints
9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
5% Enhancement(Heal)
2.25% Max End


Eradication
(Dark Consumption)
1.8% Max End
3.13% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.56% Defense(Ranged)
42.2 HP (2.25%) HitPoints


Kinetic Combat
(Brawl)
MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
28.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Melee)






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[ QUOTE ]
Short answer, I'm 50. I wouldnt/couldnt handle that build leveling. Even attack heavy, I want that thrill with my dark/dark tank.

[/ QUOTE ]

My leveling build mixed in both and did fine. There were times where I wished I had picked a toggle over an attack and vice versa but it was never build breaking.

[ QUOTE ]
I just want something I can go into a nasty AE mission, or a group of aoe happy blasters and know I can control the situation (or mostly).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but are they NOOB blasters?! :P Anyway, you can have a build that handles this and AV's. Actually it's intended for this exactly.

[ QUOTE ]
yes/no. CoF only affects minions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Invoke panic only affects minions. You still have to stack it with something to affect lt's and bosses. However IP has a higher base accuracy, less end cost but no taunt and you have to take 2 other powers.

[ QUOTE ]
With presence pool I can affect bosses and lts. Plus, ToD and Intimidate let me handle AV's and multiple bosses. Quite a few times we've aggro'd a nearby mob, and this saved the day. I've also tanked the renegade vanguard easily, where my max invul tank died (this was before def debuff resistance, so now, I dont know). This was my brute. It works VERY well. I've out tanked some tanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

This can also be done stacking CoF and ToF.


[ QUOTE ]
The biggest question for me is:
Can I increase my defense and not need my heal powers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and no. You will always need a heal since you have to mitigate against things like heavy energy damage, defense debuffs (of which you have no resistance) and -recharge. Slot for S/L defense. It's the easiest to cap due to requiring less slots.

wut da hell, three justice tanks posting on the same thread?! :P

DA socketing questions has been coming up more and more lately. I think it's time for a guide! BRB.

Sorry, I didn't notice the post as I was bantering with Kruunch. From what I can tell, (and not much since I can't use Mid's at work for set bonuses) it looks like you didn't slot defense bonuses for defense, typed or positional. Adding defense is what keeps from having to depend on dark regen, which keeps my end bar blue.

Also, it looks like your heavy hitter, midnight grasp is underslotted. You want this thing to hit and hit big.

Personally I didn't take any powers from the presence pool because frankly, I wanted to use the power selections elsewhere. I can see the potential but it appears to be a bigger slot and power selection switch for me to consider it at this time.

Theft of Essence +chance for end in Dark Regen is like Adam and Eve, Abbott and Costello, Bonny and Clyde. A complete waste of merits/influence/time/enhancement slot in siphon life imo. What makes it shine in dark regen is the fact that it will target multiple mobs in one application. This is not the case with siphon life ,and if you're spamming it to see some benefit then you're not using your heavy hitters. If you expect to be gaining endurance by using this IO in siphon life you will be disappointed.

If you decide to resocket for defenses, I suggest looking into S/L defense over positional. Try socketting reactive armors and kinetics combat. You may have to resocket other powers for max end which is fine, but make sure you socket for +max end over +recovery first and only socket for +recovery when there is no optionfor +max end. The +rec uniques in health are fine but the +regen really aren't needed. You have 2 heals fercrissakes!

I'll take a better look at it when I get home.

[ QUOTE ]
You've bought recipes at lower prices by waiting and not paying 'buy it now' prices and saved yourself more than all the influence I've made on all my toons combined.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed.


Edit: And let's face it, the only thing that makes the BS scrapper build expensive are the lotg 7.5's. They're worth the influence I'll spend just to hear the onslaught of neverending, ear-crushing slices. It's all kinds of bottled awesomesauce.

Bleh, expensive is subjective, bid low and leave your bids up for a few days. You'll be surprised on how much you can save doing so. It only gets expensive if you "buy it now".

Looking good, just a couple of things...

Consider resocketting Cloak of Fear for more accuracy and end reduction. It is one of the highest end users and the base accuracy is piss-poor. I like stacking this with Touch of Fear but it has to hit first .

Unless I counted wrong, you can get another s/l defense bonus from Kinetic Combat. You can socket this in brawl or boxing.

I pretty much agree with everything Findulias is saying. You are underslotting for end on your attacks and heavy end users and overslotting your shields for end reduction. Also, while the theft of essence proc in dark regeneration is great (mandatory imo) since it can turn your heal power into a heal+end power, I advise against slotting it in siphon life since this attack only works against one target. It works wonders in dark regen but you will be greatly disappointed with the proc in siphon life.

It is much easier to hit your defense soft caps if you take CoD, Hover or CJ (or both!), weave and then socket for S/L defense. Most attacks have a s/l component and the attack engine will use whichever defense is highest against the components of the attack. For example, let's say you are being targeted for an energy blast by a mob. This attack has an energy component and a smashing component (look at the dmg numbers in City of Data). My tank has over 20% defense to energy damage but has 46% defense to smashing damage. Since my smashing defense is higher, the attack engine uses this percentage against the mob's to-hit roll to calculate whether or not the attack hits. If the attack consist of nothing but energy damage, then the attack engine would use my energy defense.

Once you have your defenses up (and yes S/L defense is your friend, read Call_Me_Awesome's invuln guide) slot for +max end and only socket for +recovery when the option for +max end is not available. Think of +max end bonus as max end AND recovery. couple the +max end bonuses with the +max end accolades. The +recovery uniques in health are perfect especially since there is no +max end alternative. I run with no less than 9 toggles at the same time for any given period and I'm still missing Portal Jockey. Needless to say I don't worry about endurance.

I figured the +max life was a bonus you received from your positional defense bonuses and not a bonus you slotted for as a priority but if you were actively looking for this, I'd say not to focus on this as first priority. This is more important than regen however, do not look at regen as a priority at all.

FA has greater damage where DA has greater survival through mitigation with more cost to end and this is very evident in the heals. However, end reduction and the chance for end proc IO from Theft of Essence can make Dark Regen into an endurance gain tool. The end cost in Dark Regeneration really is a non-issue imo.

I can't verify at the moment but if I remember correctly, he gets the +recovery bonus as the last of 4 slots. But you have a point, he might have just kept the IO's to keep the enhancement.

Right off, you have 1 too many bonuses of +2.5% recovery and it's wasted.

[ QUOTE ]
In small part, it has to do with how things started. Initially, positional defense was far more plentiful than typed. I never felt the need for defense prior to IOs, but I did feel a gaping whole to energy damage. I tried really hard to build strictly for energy defense (before it was paired with neg. energy). In doing so I incidentally amassed a lot of positional defense that simply worked better at the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough.

[ QUOTE ]
Despite S/L being the most common type of damage in the game, I never felt the need for additional mitigation beyond Dark Embrace and Tough. Part of the issue with typed defense is you need to build for all of it (S/L, F/C, and E/NE), or you'll find that investment great in one mission and near useless in the next. If you build for equal amounts of typed defense as I would be positional defense it would equally effective.

[/ QUOTE ]

But almost every attack has a smashing or lethal component and defense uses whichever defense number is highest for that attack. For example, let's say you are targeted for an energy blast hit. This attack consists of both energy and smashing damage. My tank has roughly 24% energy defense but has 46% smashing defense. Since the smashing defense is higher, the engine uses it against the mob's to-hit roll to determine whether or not the attack hits. The great thing is, you avoid the whole attack, not just the smashing portion.

[ QUOTE ]
But I do have another reason for my preference. Blessing of the Zephyr has -KB IOs and has hefty ranged (3.13%) and AoE (3.13%) defense bonuses. I LOVE this set because it grants Dark Armor the freedom to build for any travel power. Assuming you use Hover or Combat Jumping, a single power can provide KB protection (mag 4) and 4.99% defense to Ranged and AoE. I find that so appealing I frequently take Hover and Combat Jumping on the same character. CJ + hover + SJ/FLY grants you -12 KB protection and 13.11% defense to Range and AoE.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no arguement there, I'm slowly convincing myself to take CJ+hover for simple and effective def stacking.

[ QUOTE ]
I know there has been some recent discussion about +HP on Dark Armor builds. Presently, I do not recommend pursuing +HP bonuses. I do not believe they add anything significant to Dark Armor's survivability. I do not dispute additional hit points translate to additional mitigation, but rather Dark Armor already has more pressing bonuses to pursue. In other words, more an opportunity cost issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

I replied to a similar thread yesterday in explaining why +1% to health does NOT equal +1% to resist. In fact the disparity increases with higher percentage bonuses. I believe stacking health is beneficial to armors which do not have the resist numbers that DA has, namely defense-based armors and the hybrids. Besides, that's what Dark regen is for,

[ QUOTE ]
Well yeah sort of. If you chose to pursue KB protection by means other than Zephrys, then you could make a very valid case for targeting typed defense over positional. I just advise you get equal amounts to all positions. 25-30% defense to S/L/F/C/E/NE would be just as effective as 25-30 % defense to M/R/AoE.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree and understand. Matter of fact, I did it out of old habit of grabbing the 2 set steadfast bonus with the defense IO.


And thanks for answering btw. I hold your guide in high regard. I get many compliments on my builds and try to direct as many as I can to where I learned, your guide being one of them.

I noticed in a DA slotting thread that you mention slotting for positional defense and I'm curious as to why, maybe it's something I'm missing? I've slotted my DA's (tanks and scrappers both) to cover S/L defense and can reach close to if not the soft cap without detriment. It also seems to require less slots to get S/L defense bonuses than positional. At first I thought it had to do with the coupled +max health bonuses but I get those as well. Or is it just preference?

I should have said that the visual effect is the stretched range, not that it physically extends the range. You may be right in that there is serverside lag (maybe a cast time component that does not take lag into account) which is causing this but I suspect it also has to do with hover's combat suppression. I just don't have an idea on how to prove either. Thoughts?

Outdamaging scrappers and blasters is subjective because there are times I just want to pull my hair out. Some people just refuse to adapt. Where it lies is in Kruunch's aggressive tanking method which at first I had a hard time adjusting to. Having done so, it's really impressive to see and he makes great use of the cones. Applying this approach to other toons--scrappers, defenders, tankers (I even thought of respecing out of DA/DM but they're fixing the cone issue in I15) has improved my dps as a much greater quantity of mobs are caught in the cones.


Edit: (in response to Electronite)...
I first spotted this on my BS/Shield scrapper and my dk defender after I respeced both to hover+fly. Kruunch discovered this independently while combining def bonuses with hover+CJ. However I did not know the extent to which it stretched SM (and sands) until I was on my defender and saw Kruunch hit no less than 8 mobs. One thing I would like to point out is although the range is stretched, the angle is not. You still have the same narrow cone.

DA offers solid mitigation but little avoidance. The good thing about DA (and any pool powers you may take) is with the little it does provide, it's to all types and positions so you can choose which path to take. Unlike say Shields which is positional or Invuln which offers S/L defense at base. You have plenty of options for both typed and positional defense in IO bonuses so take a look at what set bonuses accompy them and choose what you want to include. DA makes for a survival beast once you add defense so I suggest you do not give up on DA.

17% resist defense debuffs. It's not the greatest thing in the world but every bit helps.

I already see some things I would do much different than what you built. I'll let you know in game.