Jack_NoMind

I'm a little curious what a violation is. Is that communityspeak for "exploit"? Because I can't see a way for someone to violate being auto-promoted, per se.

I see the Numina's unique selling for 40 mil in many cases. Remember that it's level-irrelevant (the recipe will work exactly the same regardless of whether it's level 30 or level 50), so you don't have to bid on a particular range for it to work. If you really, really want the recipe, and don't want to do more TFs, spend 100-125 merits on the cheaper uniques that still sell for 30-40 mil in WW; browse around to find which those are. Then bid it on a low-competition range on Numina's.

But that's merely a quirk of the system which will only last as long as it takes the market to price things according to their difficulty to obtain (a year or two). So don't complain that recipes that are expensive on the market are also expensive in merits; what else would you expect?

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I was a fan of the change that made burns damage a DoT and had a slow effect added to it (i wanna say jack but i cant really remember and am too lazy to find it).

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Wasn't me -- my big thing is getting a slow in Consume. I think it's more thematic there. Bill and a few others have put forward slows in Burn.

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In terms of giving burn a debuff...you want to lower the damage and give it - res....I was under the impression that was the same thing or am i wrong yet again?

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Well... -res would affect every attack you make. So it would overall be much more useful/powerful than the original damage component.

Burn's fear component has saved my Scrapper's life many a time.

I recently wrote up a list of suggestions for Fiery Aura. What do you think of those?

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A dev post plus some digging around in the dev digest might shine better light on this subject

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The closest I've seen to a post addressing that issue is one (from Posi, I think?) explaining that that was how it worked, but not why it was like that. I'm inclined to suspect the reason that it (and similar powers) hasn't been changed is either because they want to eliminate the kludge at the root, or because it's on some list somewhere with a little "pending balance review" sticky on it. (This list and sticker may in fact be inside Castle's head.)

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The debuff for damage trade is probably more doable than improving cycle time. The devs place a very high value on end recovery in most powers and making that effect stronger isn't something I see them doing.

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Reducing the base endurance recovery per target in exchange for faster cycling would be acceptable, but I don't feel (subjectively) that not doing so would make the power vastly more potent than it is. Objectively/mechanically, there aren't really enough examples of similar powers for me to draw any conclusions about it. But since the slow effect would work to mitigate many peoples' concerns about Burn, making it available more often would be very beneficial. Cutting the end per target in half in exchange for cutting the recharge down by a third would be a net gain for the set.

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I'd need to see better reasons for why Fire needs these (res(end), res(rech), perc) and are thematic.

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Fire is a click heavy set; it benefits from res(rech) as do other click-heavy sets. res(end) is valuable for much the same reason; very low endurance will kill its ability to recover with Healing Flames. Perception is simply valuable for every damage AT.

The reason I think these are thematic to fire: Fire suggests speed, heat, and light. Speed suggests +rech or res(rech), and I think +rech is inappropriate for the set; heat, in-game, is also opposed to cold, which is -rech. Light suggests +Per. Res(end) is less thematic than the other two, perhaps, but doesn't seem that far divorced from the 'speed and heat' connotations of fire.

The mechanical reason I think Fire could/should have these (after all, the benefits I listed would apply just as much to, say, Regeneration) is because they would help Fire retain a consistent level of mitigation against all types of enemies, even though that level is lower than other Scrapper secondaries. Dark works similarly, with a lower level of overt mitigation but very smooth overall mitigation (high levels of res(end), psionic resistance, and built-in Perception) compared to other Scrapper secondaries. Fire is even weaker than Dark, but lacks the exotic mitigation Dark possesses.

Is this by any chance more common while you're fighting Malta or Freaks?

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It is valid point that bases with an inspiration vending machine could abuse it. I hadn't considered that and withdraw my suggestion.

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Er... how is that different from standing at a contact and 'abusing' it, exactly?

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...

...

...HOOVER MELEE!

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And, yanno... People would still complain that it sucked.

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Don't get me started on that dam subject.

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The fact B_I hoovers in melee range confuses me.

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...

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...HOOVER MELEE!

Even if that's so, I meant what I said about the math. I would be inclined to agree with you automatically if not for the quotations around "Defense Boost" that make it sound as though it's regarded as some sort of mythical unicorn.

One out of fifty times, it will mean an attack which otherwise would have hit you and dealt full damage will deal no damage at all.

If you're attuned to statistical spreads to the point where you can notice that without record-keeping, I'm impressed. I don't think I could immediately notice anything shy of a 10% buff to defense, and from playing my SR scrapper a lot, I am fairly attuned to 'normal' hit chances (as a matter of survival!). However, if you try to argue that that's nothing -- given how frequently characters are targeted with attacks even in low-impact play -- I'm skeptical of your ability to analyze the game. =P

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In almost 3 years of playing I have never one time noticed any "Defense Boost" while using it.

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Ah... well, then, try clicking on "Powers" then "Combat Attributes" then checking out "Defense," and compare hover up versus hover down.

The combat attributes tab is useful for determining the effects of powers on your overall performance. If you can grok the math.

Er... In comic books, villains usually don't take on large groups at once. Villains hide from their enemies, have lackeys to do their dirty work, and when the final confrontation comes, more often than not, they lose.

So what would your answer to that be, OP? Make all villains Stalker/Masterminds whose powers are weaker against heroes than heroes' powers are against them?

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I beg to differ, using your sample. There is code, albeit generic, that reads the data from power blast; this code could be tangled with other code.

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I've seen that woman blamed or argued with in the most ridiculous fashions, entirely because the people doing so have no understanding of mathematics or proper logic to speak of.

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Adding "computer programming" to the list. And -- great. Now I'm imagining the original CoX development process as a metaphor involving very young children tying their shoes.

I like the idea; it fits right in with some of the kind of things I want to do with the MA. I kind of suspect that something like this will come along eventually if they keep expanding the tool.

Geez on the validation seeking, though.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...umber=12617471

Have fun.

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how does rage avoid the crash exactly?

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If rage is stacked when it expires, it does not crash defense. Haven't you ever played the set?

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you know...the heal is like, 25% of a health bar

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Fully slotted, yes, it's equal to 25% of the health of a Tanker with no maxhp buffs. That makes it easily the weakest heal available to Tankers.

Edit: To compare, Dark Armor has more mitigation in every way than this set, and its heal is just as fast and offers 5% more base heal unslotted. Per enemy affected.

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fires heal is 1/3 and has a fast heal

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Fire's heal is 50% when slotted.

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I said Malta because they are a mez group

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No. Carnies, CoT, those are mez groups. Malta almost exclusively uses Disorient and rarely stacks it to any appreciable degree or duration.

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And also, you make the game sound very difficult...

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Maybe because I do difficult things in it.

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All in all, i really just wish i could make a numbers set (no animations or anything, just combat-stuff) and play it for you just to show how effective this set would be...

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You can do pretty much just that. Get ahold of Arcanaville's spreadsheet and add in a column for your set. Compare the numbers.

You don't need to get through the whole tutorial to get the inspirations, and a Kheld or someone with the bought pack can whip through the first part pretty quick.

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Those would benefit me roughly as much as someone suffering from sunstroke would benefit from more sun. So, no, I would not benefit, and no, they would not make the powers on that character "better."

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As entertaining as it was to watch the hyperbole creep in that post, I'm going to suggest, "benefit me roughly as much as sunscreen benefits a spelunker" as a more appropriate metaphor to the scenario you've outlined.

And come on. There has never, ever been a build that I've accomplished absolutely everything I could think of within the slots I had available. I could always be just a little bit faster, a little bit tougher, have a few more set bonuses...

Now, there are a few builds where I get to the end and I have a slot or two left over, and I'm already pretty happy with the build, sure. But those can go right into travel powers or a few more recharge slots; maybe to pick up a damage proc somewhere. Sure, maybe those things don't make night and day difference to the build, but they do make it just a tiny bit better in some way.

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They are given in the code at the start of the post

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Thanks, skipped the intro and didn't see 'em.

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It's not a question of what you can solo on Heroic

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Um…yes it is…that’s how the Devs balance sets

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No, it isn't. That's the absolute minimum standard of competence for a set. As you said, you can solo on heroic with just Stone Skin; if "being able to solo Heroic" was what sets were balanced for, why are there seven more powers there aside from the mez protection?

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And this guy would get owned on an 8-man ITF unless he dropped all his AoE toggles.

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…his AoE toggles are his armors…and again, he wouldn’t lead…much like a fire tank.

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Tanker taunt scaling and Gauntlet mean that every single AoE toggle he's running would generate substantial aggro. Fire tanks have one offensive aura. This set has four. And unlike DA, it appears it's intended for all of them to run simultaneously.

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True, but they can still be enhanced to do KB…

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And nobody does. Does this not suggest anything to you? Anything at all?

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Yes, that was my intention, it is based off of O2 Boost, which needs to be reapplied in order to keep the protection up…

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And, what, you think it would be a good idea to base Tanker mez protection on Defender heals? Hooboy.

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you need to play a Super Strength character, Rage has you do nothing for 10 seconds

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No, Rage stacks and avoids the crash. It's designed to behave this way.

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Well, even though they are effectively the same thing, they both have their own weakness, so that means that, in most cases, only one could be worked around.

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No, they don't! The weakness of defense is +tohit. The weakness of -tohit is +tohit, but also res(-tohit). This is basic arithmetic:

+50% tohit(res tohit 50%) - 5% def = 45% tohit.
+50% tohit(res tohit 50%) - 5% tohit = 47.5% tohit.

There is no time at which -tohit is better than +def for the character it's being used by, and it's rarely even equal to. Plus being an offensive effect means the toggle is suppressible. Which goes right back to your endurance hog of a click mez protect...

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Also, why is it psychotic? My tank has -speed in its mez protection…so I run most missions without it…

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There's something seriously wrong here. You play a tank solo without mez protection, rarely use Earth's Embrace, and only use Stone Skin to mitigate? Are you sure 'bout that?

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even against Malta.

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...What makes Malta special?

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There's something seriously strange about your standards, and I can't figure out where it's coming from. Do you mostly team? Or are you heavily slotted for +Def? Do you use Granite a lot? Or do you just never, ever leave Heroic difficulty?

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Could use a bit of stun/disorient protection in there.

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/e cough
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Downpour
Click: Self Heal, +Res(Fire, Toxic, Sleep, [u]Disorient[u]), +Perception

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[/ QUOTE ]Yeah.... bad idea. Even if you have it flagged to use like a breakfree. Also lacks sleep protection at all.

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In before edit! Hehehehe.

Also, it's not really that different than Active Defense. The problem is more that the Endurance scaling cost from a heal and low duration of effect would probably make it awkward.

And I will eternally campaign for Scrapper APPs to start looking a little more like Defender mixes. ;p

Okay, okay, some more practical suggestions:

Don't make Supercell a (strong) crash power. Look at Regen's Moment of Glory; it provides an incredible amount of mitigation without any kind of crash, but it's balanced by being very short lived and having a very low uptime ratio. I like the idea of a crash power people want to take, but what you could do instead of crashing to Stun (which will force almost all your toggles off, because they're almost all offensive) is crashing to -damage/-acc/-speed/-rech, representing exhaustion. Or another way to look at it is as a sort of Power Build Up-Rage.

DO NOT CRASH TO -END/-RECOVERY. Your toggles drop and you're dead. That's why people skip the existing crash powers in the first place.

Make Cyclone chance for knockup, say, Mag 3-4.

Downpour is an awkwardly, although interestingly, designed power. People will need it to be constantly cycling in order to maintain their mez protection, yet it's a click heal. The net effect of a click heal that is constantly cycling is +regen, however, since click heals do not scale to maxhp (just basehp), it's less potent than an equivalent +regen power. Hmm.

So, here's an interesting suggestion I have for you. The powers will need to be rebalanced in general, but this is the quick and dirty version:

<ul type="square">[*]Kill Hailstones. It's out of place in a Tanker set and you're going to need the power slot. Don't worry, I'm going to give you something similar back.[*]Make Downpour a psuedopet power. You summon Downpour, which heals you and leaves behind a large pool of water. The pool is a little like an Oil Slick. If it takes electrical damage, all foes standing within it also take electrical damage (each time it's hit). If it takes ice damage, it freezes, possibly trapping (immobilizing) foes standing in it and doing some cold damage over time to them. It also becomes an Ice Slick at that point (and so the electrical damage effect no longer applies).[*]Add in a mez protection power. I recommend a toggle, but a click is fine too. If it's a toggle, consider a +regen toggle (similar to Rooted or Integration). Since you're mostly worried about a single type of mez, Stun, you could even just make it an auto power; look at Resilience or Grounded for ideas.[/list]
Another thing, which is the last I'm going to add for now but by no means exhausts things that can or should be changed:

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Toggle: Self +DEF(All but Psionics), Foe -ToHit, Disorient

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This does not make sense. Do not put +DEF and Foe -ToHit in the same power. Just increase the +DEF component significantly; it's far more valuable for the Tanker anyway.

gaah, man. I wish you'd given us numbers in an easier format to understand than RN. For one thing, I can't figure out what the hell the cycle times (much less the cast times) are for any of these powers.

As far as I can tell, the set is too weak for a Tanker set. Rachel's right -- you're gonna get smooshed. If you're spamming all kinds of AoE control/debuff/damage with Gauntlet running, you are the lead tank, like it or not. It's not a question of what you can solo on Heroic; I could solo many missions on Heroic with a Defender who never took powers after level 1, if I kept my insps stocked. It's a question of what you scale up to.

And this guy would get owned on an 8-man ITF unless he dropped all his AoE toggles. At that point, why play the set in the first place? The offensive mitigation is lovely, but it's not going to help against anything that's actually a threat to tankers in the first place (strong bosses, EBs, AVs).

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And as for KB being bad for melee...Stone Melee, Super Strength, and War Mace all have quite a few powers with KB in them, all of which can be ENHANCED

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The only power in any of those sets that has a KB magnitude high enough to do Knock Back as opposed to Knock Down is Hurl Boulder.

You, on the other hand, are putting an almost magnitude 7 KB in a toggle! Not just any toggle, but the Tanker's primary mez protection! That's psychotic.

And why is "ENHANCED" in caps anyway? Who enhances KB on their Tanker? I mean, really.

Awesome idea, and props for the thorough writeup. Terrible implementation.

No, it's multiclassing. You'd still be, say, a Tanker, but you'd pick up Blaster as a secondary class and gain some of the class's powers. Among other things, it'd be too convoluted to do with CoX's system as compared to that of traditional class-based games.

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How much is a medium or large inspiration worth ^_^.

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'bout 90 seconds, if you have an SG with a friend and an open character slot.