Ice_Ember

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The basic tack we took was "if the power is not being taken by the players, replace it with something that is."

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So when can we expect a change to Temperature Protection?

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Ah I see, so it's a Trial/TF hybrid of some sort... well that does make it quite a nice reward, but even if the hole in the wall isn't fixed, is it really possible to kill 200 DE, the Rock Wall and the Titan in 20 mins?

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Yes it is. Though, i have been in a KHTF that only took 16 minutes. (That was defeating all 10 Mary's...)

With an experienced crew and Ambrosia from the start, it can be done.

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Seems hover/flight needs re-re-tweaking. Flew into the train and upon exiting the train in a new zone Cerebrawl is vibrating like he's having siezures.

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Flight or Hover on?

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yes, it was for me. I just thought the toon was given a dose of something on the train...

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Is this a yearly bump thing? I am back in the game now you know

Upsen.

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Sweet. You still have one of the coolest names.

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So....since you're answering all sorts of other questions Lighthouse, what about being able to transfer across accounts under the same master NC account with this? If you don't know, just an 'I don't know' would be nice so we know at least someone's reading the posts and know its a concern

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We're aware of the desire for cross account transfers. However I don't have any public statement on it, nor would I hazard a guess if or when or under what conditions it would be implemented.

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It would be cool to do.

holy necro-post.

I wish I had the chance to play and actually team with folks. Soon, I will be able to play again. Until then, happy teaming all.

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Psi Blast appears to be too powerful.

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not in pve. I have a sonic/psy def and psi is resisted in pve. in pvp... well... we will see. But, I think it will be ok.

It is not weird that Subdue is in the secondary. It matches up well with the first power of the other sets. The primary will still ahve 3 three main blasts available.

Psy Scream is not out of place in the secondary either. It is an AoE. Fire has Combustion as an AoE, so there is a precedence.

I am looking forward to seeing how the Confuse toggle will work. Probably a Mag 2 that, when slotted for Confuse, Will stack on those not defeated by PSW.

I really cant wait to play this.

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Subdual – Subdual deals moderate Psionic damage and may leave the targeted foe Immobilized for a brief time. Immobilized foes cannot move but can still attack. Damage: Moderate, Recharge: Moderate

Mind Probe -- Grip the minds of your foe with a Mind Probe. You must be in close proximity to pull off this attack that wrecks havoc on your foes synapses, dealing moderate Psionic Damage while reducing his attack speed. Damage: Moderate, Recharge: Moderate

Telekinetic Thrust – A focused attack or intense mental power that violently sends a nearby foe flying. Deals minimal damage, but can be very effective. Damage: Minor, Recharge: Moderate

Psychic Scream -- This howl of Psionic energy resonates in the minds of all foes within its conical area of effect, inflicting moderate damage. Damage: Moderate, Recharge: Slow

Build Up – Greatly boosts your attacks for a few seconds. Slightly increases Accuracy. Recharge: Long

Drain Psyche – You Drain the Psyche of you nearby foes, thus weakening their Hit Point Regeneration and Endurance Recovery and boosting your own. Recharge: Very Long

World of Confusion – This toggle powers allows you to cause psionic damage and cause confusion within a group of foes, creating chaos. The chance of confusing an enemy is lower than then chance of damaging them, and it may take multiple hits to affect stronger opponents. All affected foes within the area will turn and attack each other, ignoring all heroes. You will not receive any Experience Points for foes defeated by Confused enemies. Recharge: Moderate

Scare – You entwine a single foe within his deepest fears and cause him to helplessly tremble for a brief while. Recharge: Medium

Psychic Shockwave – Psychic Shockwave is a devastating Psionic attack that wracks the minds of all nearby foes. Affected foes may have a reduced attack rate and may be left Disoriented. Damage: High Recharge: Slow


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I guessed very close, getting 6 of 9 powers. I was wrong on the order by thinking Drain Psyche would be later though. I was way wrong on the confusion power (i was thinking Mass Hypnosis.)

I cant wait to play it. (and I don't PvP much... I just love the Mind powers)

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Maybe there is hope.

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I have none left. I am just here for annoyance value and a bit of good (bad) humor.

I am about to respec both swords out and use Frost, FT, and Fire Blast for my single target attacks, with Frost and Fireball as my AoE. I will have to come out of fly to use ice patch/burn. Still debating on hover for the smidge of defense, but I think Air Supp offers a bit more mitigation.

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Hmm...I'm thinking you knew I meant a Melee power, but you're right, I didn't say that. Rephrasing, look at offensive sets across the ATs and find something that is more whacked out than Frozen Aura within that AT.

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/e sarcasm


I couldnt resist, and I hope you got a good chuckle too...

Probably the other power that is most out of line with any other is Spines tier 1, Barb Swipe. It has about a 3 second activation and does typical tier 1 damage. And even as a Spines attack, it is pure lethal without the Toxic bonus on other powers.

The other attacks in spines more than make up for the poor attack. But, just like Frozen Aura, it has a really cool animation.

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I challenge someone to point out a tier 9 offensive power that is more unbalanced with it's counterparts within the AT.

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I got a good laugh at this.

Answer: Rise of the Phoenix. Yes, it is an offensive power. With two damage/mez HO's it does more damage than any Ice melee attack and it in NO way compares to any tanker power at 32. Each of the others that is available is way more useful IMO.

There are others, but hey...

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without burn, it takes at least twice as long using only ice melee attacks and nothing from the epic pool.

My testing in the other thread verified that.

I am currently trying to figure out how to herd Chimera's map w/o a kin. I may just move up through the arc and get to Bobcat or Battle Maiden, they may be a bit easier (faster)


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Battle Maiden will be your bread and butter. It's perfectly designed for fire/ice. Warriors seem to hold aggro, once you hit the aggro limit and start widdling guys down the ones your aggroed before will come running so its easy to gather more than you can handle. Lot of choke points for the buff up burn/FireBall/DamRnGFrost/ RInse & Repeat. Get a good IO build and you're golden.

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Chimera's ninja's dont do knockback, so I was contemplating a hover/fly build, with IO's for knockback. It would lower my defense because of my slotting in CJ, but I may drop weave again anyways. The defense, even with the resist/def IO still is not high and makes very little difference.

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Okay, now round up the same amount of warriors, and don't use burn. See how long it takes you without that tool at your disposal.


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Don't get me wrong, I know Ice Melee by itself is lacking. I just take exception into someone saying you can't herd well with a fire/ice. I know my name has been ranked up on the Punishers list many times when I get the bug.

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without burn, it takes at least twice as long using only ice melee attacks and nothing from the epic pool.

My testing in the other thread verified that.

I am currently trying to figure out how to herd Chimera's map w/o a kin. I may just move up through the arc and get to Bobcat or Battle Maiden, they may be a bit easier (faster)

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The right build and the right missions are what makes for a good farm. I don't have much opinion on the effectiveness of Ice Melee in regular missions since truth be told I haven't used him in that manner in along time. My Fire/Ice was breed to herd and it's something either me or the build do very well. I run farming missions with him often and I'm just not seeing how you say it's a bad herder.


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it does ok 5 at a time. my spines can hit the entire spawn.

i created mine in the I3-I4 ice patch/burn hey day and I have herded entire maps before. fire/ice is not the most effective or efficient herder.

ice/fire or fire/fire do better imo. With the recharge bonuses out of ice/fire, I think that one is better atm.

ice melee should be a more effective tanker secondary. FA, which should be the reason to take the set, but it is not worth taking.

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I'm sure Ice_Ember will back me up there.

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Yup, 100%.


Ice melee should not be gimped because of the combination with fire primary and burn anymore than energy melee should be toned down because of Build Up, Fiery embrace coupled with Total Focus and Energy transfer.

Ice patch/burn with build up and fiery embrace is a combo that is utilized just as Total Focus and Energy Transfer receive insane amounts of damage from build up and fiery embrace. One combo allows minions to be defeated faster, 5 at a time, and the other destroys bosses. (bosses actually pose a threat and give bigger rewards, as opposed to the minions, but risk versus reward ehh...)

saying that ice melee needs to be gimp because of burn is retarded. the other aspects of fire armor allow other sets to get large damage increases for their area of specialty.

If I could squeeze in Fiery Embrace into my build I would, and I may try it out even though it has a VERY long recharge.

If damage is given to FA, or something is done to adjust GIS, then I may take them. But FA has NO USE, and GIS is less useful than frost (once it has 3 damage/range HO's in it...) so neither will be in my build when I use the last free respec that was awarded.

And currently, my spines/vuln is a better farming build than my fire/ice tank. things dont run from the spines aoe attack... and I dont have to herd them into a lil bitty ice patch to be able to defeat them.

The fire herders are fire/kin trollers now, not fire/ice gimps. do i want the fire/kins nerfed any more? nope, I dont, but I do want a buff to ice melee. It is well deserved and LONG overdue.

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Thanks for making a completely useless contribution to this thread.

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Now I'm going back to read everything this post just skipped. Hopefully, I don't look like a total tool.

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Too late.

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his post added more than yours did... and this one doesnt add much.


Add damage to FA. There, it is now constructive...

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ice ember you need to probably work on your slotting then, or maybe choose a build that doesn't totally revolve around dropping ice patch and spamming burn.

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you have obviously not read any of my other posts.

Currently, I have FF, IS, and GIS all with one acc, 3 dam, and two recharge. Frost is 1 acc, 3 dam/range, and 2 recharge. FT is 1acc/mezz 1 acc/dam, 2 dam/mez, and 2 recharge.

In one hour I could do 6 invincible missions from Borea. When I used Ice Patch and Burn, I did 6 in 30 minutes. The other tanker melee sets were much faster than ice melee.

Sands of Mu hits for more damage than GIS.
RotP was my strongest attack when I had 2 dam/mez HO's. Currently it only has one, and it still hits for about 130ish, which is just less than GIS.

Try reading the other threads and you will see how ice melee compares to other tank secondaries.

Nice try though, trying to blame "slotting" on the poor performance of ice melee. When I respec again I will drop the sword attacks nad get Pyre mastery again, it did more damage.

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I don't really care numbers

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So, all you have is opinion, not facts.

Have you played Ice melee tanks?
Have you played a stone/ice tank?
Have you played an Ice/stone tank?


IMO, Ice/stone and Stone/fire would be the strongest tanks. I have proof of the ability of one and I am working on proof of the other. (Ice/fire is a great powerhouse as well...)

And just because you could not figure out how to play a kheld does not mean they suck. Maybe it means you just suck at playing them. My WS and PB are both great. On the otherhand, my fire/ice tank is under performing by my experiance, and the experience of other members on the boards, and we provided data for the dev's to look at. You just have a baseless opinion on them.

And if you dont like it, take a look at the link in the sig...

hey castle, thanks for staying in the thread.

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Mm? Did I say Ice Armor?

EDIT: Perhaps I confused the issue by mentioning the Stone self-nerfs. But I was talking about Ice Melee.

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- With support from a team, can an Ice Tanker tank the aggro cap of enemies on average at even to +2 level?

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this implies ice armor, not ice melee as well.

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- Do Ice Tankers solo their own missions in the range of the 'average rate'?

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compared to what? Compared to their tank secondaries with the same primary or across AT's. I hope a /ice tank can solo faster than a mind/emp or ice/emp controller. The fire/kin and fire/rad will go was faster than a /ice tank.


and to quote myself from page one of this thread...

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take ice for an aoe sleep power at lvl 38 which is out done by another aoe sleep power at 41.

take ice melee if you wnat you highest damaging attack at lvl 35 which does the same damage as other sets lvl 4 attack power

take ice melee if you dont want a true aoe attack power

take ice melee if you dont want a large cone attack power

take ice melee if you want you aoe damage aura to out damage your entire attack set

take ice melee if you want the fire epic power to out damage your entire attack set

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_Castle_ wrote:

Ice Melee does well at all power levels

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

LOL.

And Kheldians don't suck.

And the check's in the mail.

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Whoa, Khelds don't suck.

Guess I'm the minority, my Fire/Ice seems powerful enough to me. Not expecting blaster type damage lvls or controller lvl abilities, but he lays mass waste fast. Granted I only use him to herd and as far as that goes he's a impressive force for those that have him seen him in action. I just can't see all the negatives for Ice Melee. Do I Wish I had a AOE besides the epic? Yeah of course, but man that would be overkill. Just my opinion.

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I currently have all of the single target attacks and frost from ice melee, and soloing without burn or blazing aura is horribly slow. from my test (in the other thread) it takes twice as long to solo without them just using the ice melee attacks.

a burninator with fireball will go even faster, which is why i am respecing the swords out and getting pyre epic back.

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ice melee is stupidly overpowered with that ice patch. not a thing should be changed. that's basically control for clearing mobs as is.

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thanks for actually reading the thread... are you retarded?

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I like how just because I disagree with you, I'm retarded and a troll.

yes, ice patch makes the set. the massive slows put ice melee on the top for actual tanking, since it lowers incoming damage toward you. it makes for the perfect tanking set. hence it needs no fixing.

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Are you talking Ice melee or ice armor... the slows from ice melee do very little at slowing incoming attacks. Frost has the biggest slow of the set, and without range enhancements, it wont affect more than two or three if lucky. Even with three damage/range HO's, getting more in the short cone is hard at best.

Is is the single target attacks that provide all the damage mitigation that you speak of? Please tell me how FF, IS, and GIS reduce the damage coming in.

I did not call you a troll, just wondered if you are retarded. I do wonder if you have actually played ice melee???

The set is not stupidly powerful, not by any means. There have been three recent threads about ice melee, so feel free to post your evidence to back up your statement.

(and... look at the hyperlink in the sig...)

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I have to agree with Castle here. I just leveled a Ice/Mace Tank to 50. By forum logic this should have been near impossible as both sets are considered the worst of their groups.

But the fact is I had little trouble even solo doing missions on Invincible. Sure I skipped the tier 9 power in Ice but there are a lot of sets with marginal tier 9 powers like MoG on a Stalker (having a high resistance doesn't help when it only leaves you 3 HPs).

In PvP this may not be the strongest build but it is still very playable. There are others that have it a lot rougher. Icicles alone make the set very nice (and I think offset Mace's lower damage).

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ice primary is very nice with th defense changes made. skipping hibernate is a way to go? but I dont agree with it. I love my ice/stone tank and think that it is stupidly powerful now.

mace... ehh, my mace is lvl 8, but it does more damage than my icer. it already has an attack as strong as ices highest damaging attack.

I do think mace needs help as well, the stun needs to be more reliable I think, but I am not that experienced with the set.

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ice melee is stupidly overpowered with that ice patch. not a thing should be changed. that's basically control for clearing mobs as is.

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thanks for actually reading the thread...