Hydrophidian

I've had the same problem with the Midnighter Club. Test Server, entered from Founders Falls. Every time I try to log that character in, the game crashes.

You think those're bad, here's one that I've had blocked:

Cracker.

You're all crazy.

Clearly, the Nemesis Staff is made possible by the Power of Glam.

Just like Liberace's piano.

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What about the inf currency supply side that generates the profits that are the rewards of following these guides in the first place? Anything nefarious going on there? [Hint: Check your in game e-mail].

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I personally don't think Inf supplied by RMT services is having all that much impact on market prices. Piles and piles of Inf are generated every day by players who're just playing. And the vast majority of items are affordable for anyone engaged in that practice. On top of that, there are now Merits and Tickets with which almost everything can be purchased.

It's the small list of things that can't be gained by those means that're the potential issue. But that can always be addressed by adjusting drop rates.

Costume piece recipes were one of the things significantly impacted when people just stopped doing regular content. When everyone was in MA, the prices for those recipes shot up tremendously.

Then, when people started returning to the regular content, the prices came back down.

If Purples get out of hand (and I think they're bordering on that territory now), drop rates can just be adjusted to knock them down a peg or two.

In any event, it's not on these high end items that marketeers are making billions. Not usually, anyway. More typically, it's a high volume on smaller transactions.

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And if someone says that he couldn't have figured out a way to mimic Rikti telepathy because he uses steam, I am going to flip out.

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Like a ninja?

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And ppl are talking about throwing huge chunks of inf down a prestige rat hole (cause let's face it, given the exchange rate, there are much better avenues to gain prestige)?

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No, really, for me, there are no better avenues. I can earn Inf on the market very quickly, especially blueside. Even with the horrible exchange rate, I can gain Prestige much faster by buying it than I could by running missions.

The drawback is that I have to be in "market mode", checking things frequently, keeping all my transaction slots busy, and doing the crafting routine a lot. I get burnt on that after a while.

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Wow. Seems everyone admires the ebil marketeer billionarie but nobody wants to talk about where these mind boggling amounts of inf are coming from (or built upon).

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There are multiple marketing guides. There really isn't any super secret marketing technique. Nor is anything nefarious going on. It's just a matter of learning the market, making efficient use of your transaction slots, and being patient.

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In the high end market of today we are rapidly reaching the point where ppl are forced to be an ebil marketeer on the one hand and a farmer (or to buy from a farmer) on the other hand to participate. What does this do to the "health" of the game?

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I might share your concern if the "high end" were required... but it's not. I have 1 purple IO on 1 character, and that was from a recipe drop. My main is all IOs, but very little of it is "high end". I bought all the sets over a period of months, on the cheap, putting in low bids and waiting for them to fill. Everyone else in my roster gets by just fine with SOs and common IOs.

Further, MA brought about a serious market crash on recipes. I mean a serious crash on just about every recipe that could be bought with tickets. Many of them haven't recovered yet. So, outside of purples, it's now cheaper to outfit a character than ever before.

So, I think the game's pretty healthy, overall.

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Is this kind of thing common ?

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No, but it's happened to me a couple of times over the years.

My theory is that it's some sort of lag/rollback effect.

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Actually the prevailing wisdom has shifted from "You can't do that", to no one would bother.

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I don't recall either of those being touted.

As I remember it, the recurring claim at the time was that every item which was "over-priced" was over-priced due to these kinds of market manipulations.

The general reply to that was: not only is this a pain to pull off and not really worth the effort, doing it long-term would be nigh impossible. Therefore, it can't possibly be that common.

And, from everything I've seen, it's not. It happens here and there, and the attempts are short-lived.

Although, I will say it became more prevalent a phenomenon with the initial introduction of MA. That seems to be tapering off now, though.

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I would put to you that the fact you have undermined them in the past months is proof people are doing it.

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Attempting to do it, yah.

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You can't stop someone who's determined to gouge.

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Oh, I dunno about that. I believe I've put the kibosh on it a few times. More than once I've flooded the supply on an item and then watched the bids on it suddenly drop by a large amount.

I suppose they could've just decided they really didn't need 200 of that particular piece of salvage for crafting...

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This contradicts the prevailing wisdom

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Months ago, I posted in this forum and stated on a few occasions, in a few different ways:

1. Yes, this can be done.
2. It requires concerted, ongoing effort and attention.
3. You can't really do anything else while you're doing it.
4. It's very risky. You could easily take a bath.
5. There are other ways to make Inf on the market that involve far less risk, consume less time, and are much more profitable.

And finally, due to points 2 thru 5, these types of manipulations can't possibly be as common as some folks like to think they are.

I don't recall any of the marketeers really challenging me on any of that. Maybe the prevailing wisdom has changed since then, but, as a lot of the people posting now were the same people posting then, I kinda doubt it.

And the (very big) reason why manipulations like this can't be sustained indefinitely, is because someone will eventually come along and undermine it.

Oft times in these past months, that someone has been me.

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I doubt most folks are that OCD.

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I'm actually CDO. It's just like OCD, except the letters are in alphabetical order, as they should be.

*ahem*

As for niches: In my own marketeering approach, I generally like to be nomadic. I make an effort to move from niche to niche, and try not to stick with any one thing for too long. I'm always looking for new opportunities, but I will revisit old territory as well. I strongly favor crafting over flipping.

I approach it this way mostly because it helps in expanding my knowledge of recipes, of salvage, and of the market in general.

That said, I have alt characters to whom I will sometimes assign specific tasks and niches. This is usually to build them a workable bankroll. But I've also had them combating gouge attempts from time to time.

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actually it only seems that there is a great divide between some folks .

I've made billions off the market and i've happily learned the ins and outs of building a base .

I think I already have a pretty good handle on how to make inf and build a base but I see no reason to be horribly offended by either topic <shrugs> and i'll likely read threads about all my intrests especially when they crossover .

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I'd like to echo this, because, honestly, I think the whole Us vs. Them thing is gettin' a little silly.

I'm a marketeer, a badge hunter, a base architect, an MA author, a roleplayer, and even a PVPer.

There is no way Deebs and I are the only two players like this. Maybe us "universalists" should all get together and form our own camp for equal representation. We could call ourselves Sweden.

Anyway, point is, I'm interested in every aspect of the game. Sometimes those aspects intersect, and the areas of crossover are valid topics for discussion. Discussion is what these forums are for.

So I, for one, would appreciate it if we could tone down the Sharks and Jets routine. These forums aren't gang territories, y'know.

To get back on track: converting Inf to Prestige could be a serious Inf sink, if the rate were changed to something more tolerable.

But this would mean a lot of base expansion, and I have to wonder if that'd be too much of a strain. Big bases cause lag as it is.

Also, when (and if) raiding ever returns, SGs with proficient marketeers in their ranks would have a significant advantage. Maybe too much of one?

I'm not sure having it be a bigger Inf sink is, from a dev standpoint, worth all the potential trouble it'd cause.

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Were some items rendered uncraftable with the removal of base salvage?

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Nope. But items, because they now require invention salvage to create, can cost Inf. This is on top of their Prestige cost. For anyone not familiar enough with the market to know what's usually cheap and what isn't, the Inf cost could end up being a notable expenditure.

So a base builder can either do some market research (kind of a drag if you don't like the market to begin with) or just take a chance on one of the available recipes (each item has multiple recipe options), and hope that the one picked has an inexpensive combination of salvage.

Either way, it's going to require a trundle to the market, and a possible run-in with supply shortages: more annoyance.

I know the market, I enjoy the market, and I still find this process to be a pain in the patooty. For someone who, as a matter of course, tries to avoid the market, I can see where it'd be even more aggravating.

It's just not a very elegant system.

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What's adverse about simplifying the crafting system?

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While I was all for streamlining salvage, I find the reworked system to be cumbersome, inconvenient, and confusing. Which is kinda funny, given part of the reason why base salvage was removed. I would've handled it all much differently.

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What would anti-market folks like to see instead?

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I'm not anti-market, but I really don't like the changes that were made. They negatively impacted both my "basing" (building and usage) and my marketing.

As for what I'd like to see, I listed that up thread.

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A person with a brain and time travel will win.

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Unless the time traveling is involuntary.

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Word of Gawd is that there is a 500 page Story Bible (written by Manticore?) and has been since Day One.

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I find that hard to believe, unless the font used is VERY BIG.

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I think this is a game created for a world created for a game.

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I'd be surprised if the setting existed before the game in any form more comprehensive than some scribbled notes. The setting seems clearly built around, and designed to facilitate, the game. And if you were to ask me, I'd say that's why it's failed to expand beyond it.

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Any perceived 'thinness' to the material is probably due to the fact that the world/game is intentionally designed to be iconic and generic rather than specific.

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It's the lack of depth. The whole "iconic" thing may very well have been seen as a way to circumvent the need for detail and depth. And, for the specific purposes of a game, that might even be true. But, when stepping outside the boundaries of the game, it's apparently not enough to carry the IP.

For example, I have no desire to read the single (?) City novel. What I've seen of the comics has been pretty uninteresting and, yes, "generic"... though I'd probably say, "cliche'". Also, I don't think the RPG ever got off the ground, but I wouldn't care if it did. I wouldn't pick it up.

And this is all coming from someone who's a big fan of the game. I've been here 5 years straight, haven't strayed, don't have any interest in any other MMOs that're in the works.

If the world really doesn't capture my imagination and interest, how's it going to catch the eye of anyone not so vested in the game?

Well, based on its history so far... it doesn't.

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I think the main thing that has hurt the 'feel' of the City IP over the years is that there is not what I would call a clear progression to the enemies.

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I'd say this is still thinking in terms of a game.

I'd put the blame for the hurt primarily at the feet of the signature characters (most of them, anyway), as they are very much the IP's signature. By and large, they're more avatars than they are characters, so when they've had to be just the latter, they've usually fallen flat. Unfortunately, their lack of substance continues throughout most of the setting and its other elements.

To sum up, I find the whole shebang pretty flimsy and implausible and, based on the IP's overall perfomance, it looks like I'm not alone in that assessment.

If I were to scrutinize the setting to the point where I'd question the feasibility of "Nemtech", I'd be lost looong before I ever encountered it. My ability to suspend disbelief would start to crack at: why does anyone even live here?

I "survive" this setting by just rolling with it, focusing on the immediate and personal, making ample use of the blur effect on the big picture, and conveniently disregarding the nonsensical.

But when you add MA to the equation, this approach could run into some problems with audiences that don't subscribe to it.

I think there's a larger and more fundamental problem at work here...

I find a good deal of the City material to be sort of thrown together and somewhat uninspired. I've always assumed that a lot of it was created in a rush, and that's a big part of why it's so thin. I'm also sure much of it was devised under the primary goal of serving a game purpose, rather than a story one. Story was secondary. Probably still is.

I think that limited focus has really hurt the City IP over the years. It's not a game created for a world, it's a world created for a game. And that really shows sometimes. You can't dig too deeply or poke too hard, or it'll all just fall apart.

I do believe this will be a hindrance for many MA authors. Just as I'm certain it's been a hindrance for anyone else who's been tasked with making the City setting plausible outside the context of the game.

Obviously, the player was complaining that there was nothing to farm in this farm. If you're going to create a farm, by golly, you should be able to farm something from it! Obviously!

This mission is nothing but farmer griefing!

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Accidentally logged in as my wife.

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Wait-- you married yourself?

Or... are you just really hardcore with the roleplaying?

Just wanted to thank anyone who played "Forget the Rose, Send Me the Thorns", as it earned me the Illustrious badge today.

'Course, the badge is going to be yanked soon, but I shall enjoy it while it lasts.

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They can't understand why our heroes might not want to join the Freedom Phalanx, or even understand that they've portrayed the Phalanx characters are arrogant, unlikeable jerks at best and sociopathic fascists with delusions of godhood at worst.

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It's not just me, yay!

I take it further, though. I'd say they're so shallow and unlikeable, they can be cited as a primary cause for the IP falling flat on its face whenever it's tried to expand beyond an MMO.

They're not characters, they're avatars. And it shows.

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And I can't even imagine what they were thinking when they decided oft-requested features like player-designed content and flashbacks should be married in the canon to obvious villain plots.

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Ditto.

To make sure I'm being clear:

I don't think it should be a guide. It should be composed as a FAQ.

Then you can ask to get it stickied in this forum.

That'll give it an implicit stamp of official approval.

But to warrant that stamp, it's gotta be hard facts.

It would primarily be a help to the regulars in here, and might also cut down some of the rile-ups that occur.

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One common problem with people [in general] is that sometimes you don't reset to answer 1 when someone asks question 1 for the first [to them] time... I try not to start with answer 50 to question 1, but sometimes it happens.

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'Zactly.

Woo! Awesome thread, yay! Wheeeee!

ASTORIA

When did The Incident that cast Astoria into gloom happen, precisely? All I've been able to discern is that it occurred shortly after the Rikti War... and I'm not even 100% on that. I seem to recall there having been in-game zone information (under the help menu) that's no longer there. Can that be posted, or has it been lost/rendered invalid?

Also, would it be possible to get some details on how The Incident played out? Was it a sudden thing, or did it unfold over days or even weeks?

It'd also be nice to have it verified that Astoria has always been... off... troubled... even before The Incident. Lotsa hauntings and like paranormal activity. That seem to be the implication in the lore, but it'd be good to have a confirmation on it.

Finally, are the zombie raids a result of Mot's expanding power? Or is it something you (the devs) haven't really thought about yet, or are keeping a mystery?

Thank you!

( I would like to now take a moment to offer my condolences to the ParagonWiki folks, for whom this thread will be the cause of lots and lots of work )

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Again, I'm not trying to convert anyone. It's more of a public service to US, the people that are constantly explaining the same things over and over. I'd rather be able to point someone to a guide that does its best to remain factual and objective on basic misconceptions. It's a tool that anyone can use to convert or not as they please. A reference.

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Sounds more like a FAQ geared towards debunking.

Which would be a good idea, because, as you've pointed out, a lot of the same things get explained over and over and over again in here. And that can be a problem...

Answer 1: "Well, I can certainly understand why you've developed that perception, my friend, but, I assure you, it just isn't the case. Please allow me to explain..."

Answer 10: "No. You're wrong. And I'll prove it..."

Answer 25: "No no no no no no. False. Wrong. You think that's how it works? Prove it. Otherwise, shove off. You're talking crap."

Answer 50: "You're a [censored] moron. That is all."

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Given that each account holder can only rate an arc once, regardless of how many alts they play, I refuse to believe we have more spiteful griefers playing CoX than players who give out 1-star ratings just thinking that they deserve them.

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We probably don't.

But, as a player who thinks a 1-star rating is sometimes warranted, how often do you rate that way?

A griefer, on the other hand, will happily 1-star arc after arc after arc. Just because they can.

Then you have the ratings PVPers, who I'm not sure qualify as true griefers... but the effect is pretty much the same for the people who run afoul of them.

Overall, we likely have way more responsible, thoughtful players than griefers. I think the numbers Arcanaville presented suggest that.

But the malicious down-voting that goes on is very focused and very concerted. Most arcs don't get grief-bombed, because there's no reason to do it to them. But the ones that get visibility? They're big targets.