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Quote:Now I'm just confused. When did I say that this is what I want? When did I say that I would be happy if the devs tied the incarnate system to a story so restrictive that only a couple of concepts could relate to? Seriously quote one of my previous post or something.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Do you realise you're quoting something that is almost universally derided as an argument for your case? "Come play City of Villains. It sucks!" is hardly an argument that will convince me to support more of this. If anything, City of Villains should be a lesson in how NOT to do thing. Honestly, from everything I've heard of the CoV railroading storyline, responses tend to vary between "I hate it!" and "Eh, it's not too bad." but I have never, ever heard anyone come out and say "By golly! The way City of Villains is structured is GRRRATE!" Ever. You REALLY do not want to bring CoV up as backing for your argument.
Furthermore, come play City of Heroes and tell me what the "goal" of getting more powerful is, aside from the reaching a state of being more powerful. There isn't one overriding, overall storyline for the whole game from 1 to 50, and to be honest, all the better for it. As you said, tailoring the game to be unique for every individual player is impossible, so you simply don't tailor the game to the players. You present them with a persistent world within which they follow a variety of unconnected, though cross-referencing storylines and let people make up their own motivation for why they keep on fighting.
To try and tell people "THIS is what you're fighting!" is just incredibly bad form, and I'd have thought City of Villains burned us all hard enough to teach us to know better. Seriously. We don't need the game to tell us why we want to get stronger. That's what the Description field is for.
What I DID say was that I AGREE with you. I do agree that having my villain team up with as hero yet again would bug mew to no end. I don't another CoV. While the content is better than blueside, it's too restrictive concept-wise.
I'm not describing how I would like the incarnate system to be. FYI this is not the Suggestions forum. What I'm saying is that there is absolutely no chance that devs won't bind it to some ingame story, whether we like it or not. I would hate it if the content really plays out to be Coming Storm with moar hero-villain teaming. My opening post was a realistic point of view, judging by resent additions to the game, not my personal preferences. I created this thread, because I wanted to hear other people's theories, REALISTIC theories, not suggestions. A firefighter toon would like to gain additional powers by rescuing cats stuck on trees, but what are the chances that this would be what the incarnate system is about? You are most welcome to suggest a Shivan invasion, the return of Rularuu, a Rikti invasion, anything that has a chance to happen. Does the Coming Storm has a chance to hit live anyime soon? Yes, it does. Do I want this to happen? Not so much; it would depend on how they implemented it. It is apparent that you want a story that every concept can rely to. Well, if you can think of such a thing while still staying true to this game's canon, then you would be my internet hero.
Also, you give me the impression that you never actually played the game and only pay the subscription just to be able to post in the forums. How much content do you run into in game with a great degree of customization for each character's concept? One of my toons is an angel, yet I don't go berserk and demand pacifist contect and picking-daises experience points. That's what being realistic is all about. This game has everything, from supermen to catgirls. This degree of diversity makes it impossible to create content that would satisfy everyone's needs. You can't have an alien invasion and mice-chasing action in the same game. According to your logic even Praetoria was a bad choice. Some concepts would prefer a carnival of doom, so evil that your perception over reality is twisted, black becomes white and white becomes black. It would fit with the jester pants, too. You said side-switching was not something you wanted anyway. Really? So you're happy with binding specific ATs and powersets to one's morale?
It appears you play WoW. When was the last time that CoH followed the WoW route? Fortunately, I can't find many similarities between the two games. However, the moment end-game content is announced, hell breaks loose and screams of DOOOOOOM echo everywhere. We know NOTHING about it. Wait for more information and keep wild speculations about the system's mechanics to a minimum. It makes no sense for an end-game content we've been waiting for 6 years to be a cheap WoW rip-off. Yes, WoW is popular, but it's hardly the MMO bible or anything. CoH predates WoW, why would it need to rip it off? CoH introduced the superhero MMO genre; WoW is the EC-rated version of Diablo. This game stayed original for 6 years introducing one innovative feature after another, while WoW was raising the level cap. Sadly, people see its strengths as weaknesses. Its unlimited character creation possibilities are used as an argument to shoot down every newly implemented content, while deifying a blue/green coloured kindergarten filled with elves and orcs.Quote:I'm just afraid WoW-style raids IS what they're aiming for, why I don't know, and like you said, if it's rejected by a meaningful portion of the playerbase, it won't be altered until people like me no longer care. I dare say the reaction to the system with Going Rogue is not going to matter, because any changed made to it will count down from I19 onward.
And while I admit this is not giving the development enough credit in the face of all the cool things they've done because we asked them to, this particular instance IS NOT one where developer ideas match my own very often. -
Quote:1)Post in a threadOriginally Posted by MondoCool
I don't see why people whine about having to give up three out of twenty four powers in order to be more physically fit.
Let's see. You have your nine primaries, and your nine secondaries. You probably won't take all 18, but that's 18 at the very most. Let's say you take all 18. That leaves you with 6 completely optional powers to choose from.
Hurdle, Health, Stamina. That's 21. You have three powers left to choose whatever you want from the pools, which are also optional. You could get, say, Boxing, Tough, Weave, which makes that 24. If you don't choose all your powers from your primary or secondary, you could get Hasten/SS or CJ/SJ along with that. Or even both. I know I did.
There is no loss of gameplay value when taking the Fitness pool. Your character is focusing his attention on physically training himself to be more fit and utilize his powers in a more endurance-efficient way. This gives him less time to focus on developing the general powers that all heroes/villains are capable of using. Deal with it.
2)Be completely off-topic
3)???
4)Neg rep
On-topic, this not a thread about stamina, or Fitness pool in general. This is about Rest inherent power, available to all heroes and villains at level 2. There have been many threads in the past suggesting making Fitness inherent, removing it completely, removing the blue bar completely, blue infinispiration or whatever. All of these were either stupid, redundant or both. This thread however is the only one with a solid suggestion about a power which current form makes Energy Transfer seem like an "I WIN" button. -
Quote:Actually I agree with you completely. I agreed with your previous post, too. Maybe my reply wasn't clear enough, but what I was trying to say was that I'm tired of the whole heroes and villains team together, too. I do believe RP arguments are trash. However, this is a game, not Second Life. You don't get MOAR powerful for the sake of being MOAR powerful. There need to be a story behind it. It's not what I want, it's just what makes sense with the course of the game. You say you hate how the game forces you to make decisions your character wouldn't normally do. Come play redside. Become a villain, just to be Recluse's *****, hell, everyone's *****. you don't do bad things, you run other people errands. So, yes, devs do take decisions which don't fit with all characters concept-wise, but tailoring the experience for each character is just impossible. The next closest thing is to find a reason that applies to most concepts, which, IMO is world's destruction. After all how many emo toons with a death-wish do you see running around? Is it a stupid cliche? Hell, yes, it is. Is there any other way? That's the point of this thread.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
We don't even know HOW this power would be gained, but let's go along with your idea. Why didn't I hunt down the Well of the Furies earlier? Because I didn't know where it was. "Didn't," as in past simple. I didn't know where it was, I do now. How did I find out? Who cares? Maybe I searched the globe until I stumbled upon it, maybe I'm psychic and I just "knew" where it was, maybe I'm a space alien who can sense godlike powers. Or maybe, just maybe, it was common knowledge before I even came to this world, as it's going to happen with any character created after Going Rogue launches.
I not only do I not need to be given an explanation as to why I'd want the power of the Incarnates, I don't WANT an explanation as to why I'd be going after it. It would be incredibly and unbelievably railroading if the game tried to pull the old "you think/you feel" trick, especially since the developers appear to have learned their lesson from CoV, if the new content is any indication.
And, to be completely honest, I am SICK AND TIRED of heroes and villains joining together to fight a common thread. Sick and tired of it like you wouldn't believe. We join together to fight the Rikti, then we join together to fight Imperious, then we join together to fight the Coming Storm, then we join together to go shopping for holiday gifts, and before long, people are asking what the point of contacts warning us not to fight among ourselves is if we've been doing everything since 2009 together like best buddies. There's no point in having heroes and villain to begin with if all you'll have them do is join forces to fight something else all the time. It's a cheap, unappealing comic book kludge that shouldn't be used very often and definitely shouldn't be used for all the biggest threats. Not only is it silly, I'm getting tired of my world-destroying villains getting roped into saving the world over and over again.
And please, stop trying to tell me what I know, what I can do and what I want. These are RP arguments, and by their very definition, RP arguments are unwinnable. The best thing they can do is let us pick our own reasons and motivations. -
Quote:I learn a new little thing every dayOriginally Posted by Frosticus
They don't make it activate faster, just less chance of being interrupted while activating. But honestly if you are being interrupted while activating it you probably aren't in a situation you should be using rest.
. So, yeah, reducing the activation time would be nice.
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Quote:Did you ding? Did your power stats increase? Did you get more market/inspiration slots? Did you outlevel your contacts and enhancements? Did you get more power slots/powerpicks from your primary/secondary/epic/patron power pools? Did you gain any experience points? If the answer to all above questions is "no", than I'm afraid you didn't gain any more levels. You're still 50.Originally Posted by Durakken
You are comparing temp powers to permanent powers connected to a thing called a level. If you want to not call it raising the level cap that's fine, delude yourself all you want.
Picking a new power,a power not existing in your other powerpools is not gaining a level.
When you become level 10/20/30/40/50 you get a badge. So, according to your logic, every badge equals a level, right? OH NOES, issue 17 raised the level cap to 700.
Some Day Jobs give new powers which require charging. Log out in the same location and they'll practicaly become permanent. Did Day Jobs raise the level cap?
Yes, the new incarnate system makes you stronger. So do IOs. Neither of them raises the level cap to do so. Incarnate levels give you new powers, IO sets give you procs and set bonuses.
Actually an explanation would be necessary IMO. How would it be possible to gain powers you don't own? Well of the Furies? Well, if you knew where the well is, why didn't you drink from it earlier? Because you don't know where it is, that's it. The mysterious letter-sender comes to visit you for the first time and makes you an offer you cannot refuse: Power. You decide to join his cause, along with Protean and Ajax, to fight the coming storm. Sure, some double-crossing/back-stabbing action would be nice but highly unlikely, as it's a common comic cliche that heroes and villains put their interests aside and join forces to protect the Earth/Universe/lolcats/etc from destruction.Quote:Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I don't think there needs to be a conceptual reason for giving us the ability to become more powerful. If anything, "Incarnates" are a convenient excuse to add the kind of system people have been yelling for since the beginning of time. Yes, it'd be nice to have everything wrapped up in a nice, convenient explanation, but given what they've done with The Origin of Powers story arc, I dare say this is sometimes more trouble than it's worth.
I'd say the story could easily be as simple as, to quote Yahtzee, "Magic ball give super powers, everyone want magic ball, go get magic ball, psychic trash robots" and people would still be lining up to the Incarnate distribution pavilion like the folks from Cannon Fodder 2. Having a storyline explanation as to what this power is is not necessary, as leaving it as some amorphous "hidden power" nonsense would give people more creative freedom than, say, Patron Powerpools. I'm not saying it's bad to have it, just that we don't necessarily need it. Having a storyline explanation of how you get the thing, as apparently it won't "just come naturally" does make sense, as it would explain the specific tasks involved in acquiring the power of the Incarnates. I still want to see it obtainable just by running more missions after 50, but I can understand if special circumstances are necessary.
Having an explanation of why you would want it, however, is not only unnecessary, it's actually a really bad idea. People's motivations are their own, and whether they want the power so they can fight the Hamidon, Lufgebu, the Coming Storm or the Common Cold is up to them. And if they want to use the power of the gods to make divine pies and delicious cookies, then more power to them.
Again, I'd like to see the powers of the Incarnates not so much earned by participating in a special, grindy event as UNLOCKED by said participation similar to how you gain the ability to earn Vanguard Merits by joining the organisation. As such, I'd like to see the Incarnates' explanation go as far as giving us means of unlocking the powers, but then allowing us to develop them in our own ways, should we choose to disregard its supposedly forced teaming content. -
Quote:Not all players team, so I'm glad we get a Self-targeted Tarot. Also,you can stack secondary Mutation and Mystic Arcana and double the fun.Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
I also didn't say much because it is kinda meh IMO since we already have the tarot cards that function in the same manner. If the devs were going to recycle one of the powers from all the other packs, I would have much preferred a feral run style. Eh. C'est la vie!
Ninja run "leaked", too, forcing a quick release. Also, Paragon wiki revealed [Kinetic Strike], a Syndicate's Kinetic melee attack with self damage buff, foe damage debuff. Just type [Kinetic strike] ingame.Quote:Originally Posted by Duncan_Frost
Looks like they accidentally published it to Live. -
Quote:You can always slot interrupt reduction enh.Originally Posted by Frosticus
0 recharge would be a great change. I'd like to see it get a bit faster activation time myself.
The negatives of the power being that a grey con can practically 1 shot you are enough to eliminate the rech and overly long cast time.
On topic now, this is a great idea. Personally I would go with 0 recharge Rest. The Auto Rest is a bit redundant, as making Clubber/Caregiver boost permanent (no log-out recharge required) would more or less solve the problem. -
Also, all replies so far are off-topic.The thread is about the system story-wise. If you're into Doom-posting you can always open a new thread by clicking the "New Thread" button.
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Quote:And you read only halve of it. What I'm saying is that there is no reason YET for this system. What I believe is that issue 19 will give us a reson: Coming Storm, a task much more difficult than anything else we've experienced. Hami won't be the game's hardest task, Coming Storm will be. If you disagree with me, fine, that's why I started this thread. You are welcome to post your own theories about what requires the implementation of the system (story-wise).Originally Posted by Durakken
Apparently you didn't read your own post...
If you even bothered reading my post, you wouldn't post the same things twice. So, if the devs gave a Taser dart temp power to all 50s would that be raising the level cap? My lv50 crafted a Recovery Serum temp power the other day. He didn't DING!...weird.. Gaining a new power is not gaining a new level. Doing a banner raid gives you a temp power. Still no DING! The leveling system of the game never included gaining NEW powers. It wasn't tied to the game's story either. If a new arc is featured, where you travel to the Well of the Furies and gain a new power from a list of powers including Zeu's Ligtning, Poseidon's Trident and Hephaustus' Hammer, would that considered gaining a level? You didn't get a power slot, you didn't select a power from your primary/secondary pools. Your Sting of the Wasp still does 94,2 unenhanced damage, because that's how much it does when used by a level 50 scrapper. You are still level 50.Quote:However the Incarnate system works it is just a system for leveling beyond 50. It is raising the level cap. The only difference is they are using a different mechanic and linking it directly to story. Both of which has been done in other games for leveling systems. If you want to not call it raising the level the cap, good for you, but that doesn't change the fact of what it is which is levels beyond lvl 50 which by definition is a raise of the level cap. -
Quote:No, they are not raising the level cap. When you gain a level by earning enough experience points, the values of your powers increase and you either gain more power picks or power slots, according to your level. You outlevel your TO/DO/SO enhancements, as well as your contacts. Your enemies con blue/green/gray and you get additional market/inspiration slots.Originally Posted by Durakken
What has been said about Incarnates is simply this...
They are raising the level cap and using different words as to not have as many people freak out that they are doing so.
Now you can go on your rant about that...
What the devs said was that you gain NEW powers (not powers from your primary/secondary/epic/patron power pools) and that Incarnate levels are tied to the game's story and cannot be earned with experience points.
Normal levels and Incarnate levels are two entirely different things, similar to how different earning a temp power from an arc and getting stamina at lv20 is.
Also, this thread is about the story behind Incarnate levels. If you are interested in discussing the game mechanics, you can always open a new thread. Thank you. -
Quote:That's what I'm saying. A Storm is Coming...Originally Posted by Decorum
I believe the quote was something like "You'll need it." which is an oblique way of saying there will be content specifically for the Incarnates.
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Devs announced an end-game system. But, what is the need for it? We can already soft-cap our builds using IOs and take on AVs and GMs. Do the devs really wants us to solo Hami and mother ship? I think not. Then, why adding the incarnate system? Why do we need more power?
Issue 17 and doppelganger arcs hit live. We receive a letter from our time-traveling Ouroboros-hating friend; a mysterious figure who hid his face, as Dean MacAryhur says. He is recruiting new members. This is the first time he contacts us in our time and reality.
We found letters in the past, the future, even in Cimerora. But never here, in our time. Is he coming for us? Does he want to recruit us? Do we need to get more powerful to stand a chance against the Coming Storm?
But, Ouroboros is watching, he can't come here. Then again, we gain the first Incarnate level in Praetoria, an alternative reality. He has access to it ("Have you ever met Praetorian Earth Requiem?"). So, the question is: Is a Storm Coming with issue 19?? -
Still nobody cares for [Secondary Mutation]. Maybe you don't really wanna know what's in the pack, just make some random tail suggestion. FYI, Secondary Mutation uses the same icon with Mystic Arcana, as Vanden's icon pack replaces the grey icon shown in PowerLeveler's screenshots with the orange playing cards icon Mystic Arcana currently uses.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Duncan_Frost
We know one thing that it'll contain - type [Secondary Mutation] in-game for a sneak preview
LOL, these posts actually revealed the pack's unique power and nobody seems to care...Quote:Originally Posted by NightErrant
Secondary Mutation:
You acquire a secondary mutation. This grants a random permanent buff for up to 20 minutes. No more than one Secondary Mutation can be in place at a time.
Self Targeted Mystic Fortune. -
If such an issue would help solve even a single bug faster, then I would /sign it. However, as the above poster already mentioned, new content and bug fixing are handled by different people/departments, so an issue like that would make little to no sense.
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The whole flying bug issue happened to one of my toons,too. But, as it seems it's not an bug; it;s just that the default camera (the one that is preselected when logging in with the character) has slight angle towards the ground, so small that it's practically impossible to correct by hand. I solved the problem by binding this to the ctrl key: /bind ctrl "camreset$$camdist [xx]" and it worked for me. Basically, it's the /camreset slash command, which resets the camera to the normal, parallel to ground, angle and close-to-character distance and the /camdist [xx] command, which sets the camera at a distance (I just want to be able to see the whole toon), where [xx] is a double-digit number, usually 18-22, according to the toon's height. I just hit ctrl every time I log in with the toon. Hope it works for you!
Alternatevely, you could try options/controls/mouse. The is an option there which name I cannot remeber, but has the following choices: Free look, always centered, centered when moving. Select either always centered or centered when moving. I prefer the latter. -
That build is seriously impressive. Thanks for sharing
May I ask something? Why did you choose Tactics over Focused Accuracy? Is the extra end cost so stiff to pay for a higher acc buff? Also, would the build be viable with another epic, or is Physical Perfection needed? -
Thanks for the help guys!
I found some pretty good and cheap builds, but I would like to ask something, though. If you had access to unlimited amount of influence, how would your build look like (number-wise) and what could it achieve? I'm more interested in survival, instead of ridiculous Pylon DPS.
Also, I read the extremely good analysis on Scrapper secondaries from Arcanaville. Is DA's performance on SOs still the same as it was back in issue7? -
I hit lv16 and got Dark Regeneration, which I love so far. Damage is not a big issue with my toons, as long as it's not completely gimped, as I give priority to high levels of survivability. I think I'll this combo. Also, one last question: How is this compered to Katana/WP? What does one do better than the other?
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Thnx for the link; it was exactly what I needed. Also, you refer to your Kat/DA using present tense [[love]], which means that you still play her, right? Well, if you do, given that your join date is at 2008, it means that even after at least 2 years, you still find her playable; which is exactly what I'm looking for: my main blueside toon.
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I went this route purely for concept, but thought that the multiple layers of protection /DA offers coupled with soft-capped positionals through IOs and the large def buff Divine Avalance offeers to compensate for /DA's lack of def debuff resistance seem promising. Does anyone have any experience with this combo? What are its strength and its weaknesses? Does it feel weak against other builds (Inv, SD?) in the survival and/or damage department? And last, does anyone have a sample build the could share?
Thank you in advance for your time and any help you can offer
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Quote:Excuse me, there are villains here, tooOriginally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Why does everyone keep suggesting apocalyptic downer endings? Why can't heroes put an end to all crime in their city and live idyllic lives until the sequel?. Yeah, I know, lolRP, but they can't just say "ha ha you just lost the game, suckers. We, hero MFs just own everything.". So yeah..
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Quote:I think there was a Q/A round in the forums few days ago, where BaB said that.Originally Posted by IanTheM1
I don't recall exactly where, but I want to say that BABs (maybe it was a different redname, I can't seem to dig up the post) confirmed that the doppelganger tech simply doesn't work with Pets, sadly.
Doppelganger Phantom Army would be the only reason to roll an Illusion/. I don't know why but for some reason I keep rerolling every Ill troller I make. -
Click this DataLink to open the build!
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My only request is to keep teleport as the travel power. It's my favourite form of travel. I know its easier with other pools, in fact I already have soft-capped builds, but I never managed to pull something together with Teleport. Hope someone here with superior build-fu can manage it. Thanks for your time
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So any info about the server shutdowns for us innocent virtueets? *hides catgirl costume*