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This game already has a fast, almost arcade-style feel to it, without the interface or twitch annoyances inherent in such. A good team can faceroll just about anything without having to worry about reaction time or attention spans.
This also makes it the most relaxing game I know, a good way to unwind.
As others have mentioned: it's not a conventional MMO with an emphasis on raiding for loot or PvPing for loot. There is grind, but you can grind level 20 content on your level 50 if you feel like. And your level 20 can team with the 50s if you want to.
You don't need a tank. You don't need a healer. You don't need buffs or debuffs, mostly.
We can make our characters look the way we want them to.
We can fill every server full of alts if we feel moved to do so. -
I suppose I need to update my guide to tanking task forces to discuss the Tin Mage and Apex task forces. The basic premise of the guide is that if you have multiple tankers you can bring, you should bring the one with the primary that's best tuned to what you will be facing there.
"Note at the outset that any tanker can tank any game content, and the task force you need or want to run, or the one you just enjoy running, is the one you should play. Rather, this guide is intended for players who have multiple tankers to choose from, like I do. Some tankers will have an easier time with some content than others will. The purpose of this guide is to enable the tanker fan who has several available tankers to select the one that will perform best on the task force." This sentiment may require revision.
I don't have the kind of experience with these task forces that others may have had. I have finally gotten through both of them on my badging main so I am done with them, or at least done with Apex. (Tin Mage is actually rather fun.)
My unscientific impression is that multiple tankers might be valuable on Tin Mage but that any tanker (and any melee character) is a liability on Apex. Apex can probably be "tanked" as much as it needs to be on a scrapper, which of the three melee ATs is probably the least damaged by its "unique" features. Both Battle Maiden and Director 11 are essentially untankable encounters. Battle Maiden simply cannot be properly tanked, and trying to hold aggro on Director 11 is at minimum inconsistent with a master run.
Given the Praetorian clockwork stacking slow and recharge, defense sets might be more useful at least initially. I think that at minimum, out of the box (without expensive defense bonus builds), sets based on resistance and self heal (DA, Fire, Electric, to some extent Invuln) are strongly disadvantaged on Tin Mage, and generally throught Praetorian CW content. If you're relying on a heal to keep you alive, odds are it won't be there. Your only hope is in being hit less, and the Praetorian CW are also stacking -def, so defensive sets that can easily get past the softcap (Ice, Shields; maybe Invuln) will excel, especially if they also have good debuff resistance: Ice is probably best in that regard. All other things being equal, I'd rather be Reflexes.
For Battle Maiden, the only possible advantage I can see in a tanker primary are the ones that buff hit points. The sets with +HP (WP, Ice, Invuln, Shields) are really the only ones that confer a slight edge that I can think of. Obviously being a Stone tanker would be at a large disadvantage on Apex. I have not taken an Ice tanker on Apex; does Hibernate work on the blue patches?
For BM, your secondary is also going to make a big difference, maybe even bigger than your choice of primary. Being Energy Melee is probably a bigger disadvantage than reliance on Rooted or Granite. The set has been rebalanced around animation lag in a way that's inconsistent with the design of the encounter; your basic attack sequence (BU-ET-TF) is itself long enough to get you killed.
Willpower tankers are not disadvantaged by a weak taunt aura here, at least. It isn't like you are trying to gather mobs for your team; you can't.
My initial verdict would be:
Tin Mage: Ice, Shield, Invuln
Apex: None, but Shield might have a slight edge, especially given the Shield TP attack; also WP, Invuln, Ice for the +HP. WP's balancing weakness is less of an issue here. Don't bother with Stone. Your secondary is also important, and attacks with long rooting animations should be avoided. -
This game has been the game I always come back to for the past six years now. There are several reasons for that. Most of these reasons have to do with this game's lacking annoyances that other games have, and that I do not enjoy all that much:
- Progression raiding
- Need / greed / team leader loot
- Gear and gear scores
- Gimmick fights that
- devalue the contributions of particular characters or power sets,
- make other characters and power sets necessary
- feature complex choreography that must be mastered over multiple failed attempts to succeed at.
I must admit that I do fear the impulse to "compete" with other games by adding that sort of thing. It won't work here, largely because it's not really consistent with the existing structure. You can't have a game that both requires fast reaction to some signal, and at the same time uses rooting and uninterruptable animations as game balancing features.
If that makes me a DOOMspeaker, so be it. -
Quote:I finally got through a Tin Mage yesterday. Director 11's AI was decidedly odd. He kept running away despite being taunted, and I was told that I could not follow him if we wanted to get the badge for avoiding the mines, which it turned out we did not get anyways. If a condition for full success is not chasing him through the building, he should come when called and stay put.I agree about the Director 11 fight. Maybe I'm just missing something, but getting the badge in that seems like a matter of pure luck and/or ridiculously overwhelming force. Outside of the badge, there's nothing special or annoying about it, but the badge aspect of that fight bugs me.
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Quote:It is inevitable that gimmick fights disfavor melee:Why do you think they are being frozen out of anything? I see you with choices which I consider completely viable.
- The boss is made invincible by an ally he summons. You must break off to fight something else.
- You aren't allowed to stand within melee range of the boss; you must run away.
- The boss is using an AOE nuke; you must run away.
- You can't stand next to the boss, the boss will be healed by your presence.
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Quote:The playstyle that has always brought me back to this game is in the process of being removed or made unplayable in the Incarnate content. The characters that I've spent six years developing here are being frozen out of that same content. I am supposed to be pleased at these developments. Gotcha.Here's the thing though, if you dislike Trapdoor, Apex and Tin Mage, it's a good bet you won't like whatever content is in I20 anyway. The devs intent with Incarnate content seems to be making content that provides some challenge not though making the numbers larger (as the attempted to do with Reichsman) but by introducing special mechanics that require something other than tank and spank. I really doubt that the I20 Incarnate content will suddenly go back to being Tank and Spank (although the non-incarnate content probably will).
As I said before, the absolute last thing this game needs is progression raiding. It's poison to the player base. Eventually you'll face some kind of boss with such elaborate choreography that it will take weeks or months for players to work it out. There will be crowing about the first time the boss was downed, the first time a group downed it on a server; people will then claim to have mastered it so well they have that boss "on farm". This sort of content engenders a poisonous elitism.
Eventually, play here will be subject to various timers and alarms. Team organizers will resort to voice chat programs to herd the players. You won't be paying as much attention to what's on your screen; you'll be waiting for voice instruction as to where you go next. Odds are the place you are supposed to be standing isn't going to be within melee range of the boss, either. If you stand in the wrong place, do the wrong thing at the wrong time, expect to be one-starred and probably kicked. Somebody out there obviously enjoys playing games under these constraints and conditions. I do not.
I've gotten six years of enjoyment out of this game. I suppose it doesn't owe me anything at this point. Just don't expect me to celebrate this game's losing the distinctiveness that's been its chief attraction for me. -
Quote:There are three badges that none of my characters have ever gotten, and it is unlikely they ever will.Even more fun was stepping out of that door after a trip to the hospital and dying instantly. Especially the second time, after the team had regrouped on the roof and we all went down together - oh, we're gonna show that BM what for this time! - and two of us died as we exited the door. Eventually it became clear we were not going to get through this one. What started as a fun evening with friends getting together to play their favorite game wound up with everyone quitting the TF frustrated and unhappy.
So, yeah. Good one, Posi. Good one. Keep it coming.
- Cathedral of Pain trial;
- Apex task force;
- Tin Mage task force.
I've tried them all several times, never succeeded, and am not really eager to experience them again. At this stage my chief concern is that i20 will be adding content that is gated through this particular content. Rather than more of this, maybe three more PvP zones? -
Quote:Because it's supposed to be the test that determines whether your character has a future in the game, or will be put out to pasture.Now this is why people complaining confuses me (and I mean that literally, I'm not trying to be insulting). The dev's intent with the incarnate content (based on this arc, and both the new TFs) seems to be to introduce content which requires effort from the player as opposed to being a simple numbers game, Trapdoor is simply the introduction to that. Now if you hate that sort of content that's fine, not everyone likes the same thing. But if you hate it why are you bashing your head against the wall doing it?
So far, I have seen an arc with a character that is tiresome to beat with a tanker. If you dump your tray and fill it with reds, and jump around from clone to clone getting maybe one or two shots on the boss in the interim, and if you chew through your tray of reds without beating it you're better off just resetting the mission. This is why I'm happy to get on my controller and solo it for you if I'm not otherwise busy. It's a tedious, unfair, and unfun chore.
And, we also get two new task forces where the optimum number of tankers on the team, and for that matter the optimum number of melee characters, is zero.
If this is a new direction for the game, it's been a great six years, but so it goes. -
Quote:I've done it on just about every level 50 character on my main server. The only one left is a stone tanker who had a heyday around i5 but doesn't get played much now.Complaining that you can't solo it and are unwilling to team to do so gets you some sympathy from me. Complaining that you you can't solo it, are unwilling to team to do so but are perfectly willing to help someone else do it doesn't. Heck, next time someone needs help with Trapdoor instead of your Ill/Emp why not take a character who needs the arc as well?
The others are all concept or experimental tanker builds that were either made on other servers where I know very few people, or transferred there. I don't think I have a level 50 that's not a tanker or scrapper outside of Victory. So no, I'm not really comfortable logging onto one of those servers and begging for a controller to solo it for me.
The Ill/Emp has a magic bullet that makes the whole arc trivial. This is the flip side of the problem with gimmick encounters. Odds are there's a single power or power type that trivializes it or at least makes it extremely easy. Once that's figured out, players won't do it without it. And, odds are the character you'd rather be playing doesn't have it. -
Quote:I guess I have some characters that are locked out of the new content. Time to strip and delete, then.So what, the devs should make Trapdoor's mission auto-completable and then everyone can spend 9 days becoming an incarnate by not doing the arc? What would be the point of that?
The whole purpose of the Incarnate content is to introduce new and challenging content for players who desire that sort of thing.
It's only challenging for melee characters who lack the DPS to brute force it. If you have the ability to stack confuse, it's utterly trivial.
The controller I turn to when a friend needs Trapdoor soloed is ill/emp. That controller finished the arc in record time, even after the patch. Stealthed everything. Confused Trapdoor is helpless. Confused Holtz takes out the Rikti and beats on Honoree. Confused cow waits for the pets to beat her down. I may never get an alpha power slotted on that character --- not a main by any means, and I tend not to enjoy controllers all that much --- but it was trivial on that character as it was tedious on a tanker. -
Quote:For that mission, there is another option; if I got hit by the Curse of Forced 5 Minute AFK I wouldn't hesitate to use it either. I think I did once among the many times I've run through this. I ouro'ed out of there and took care of it. For characters without enough native defense, I acted preemptively.Honoree and Holtz on the other hand I do consider challenging, especially for low defense characters. Holtz in particular has several nasty debuffs which means if you have low defense he is very nasty (Curse of Weariness in particular is annoying). Honoree is a more generic fight but his high damage causes problems for squishy characters.
The Trapdoor mission, for whatever reason, cannot be autocompleted. If it's going to be that way, they ought to re-enable multiple strategies for it or fix it by making the clones finite in number. -
Quote:Yeah, a mechanic that generated that particular picture couldn't possibly be broken, right?Even so, if you can't beat Trappy on the first attempt, you're still better off resetting the mission. I hate that.
Three clones. Three. After the third one falls you are done chasing them.
I suppose what I hate the most about the mission as it now stands is that it's forcing me to realize that I have level 50 characters who are not mains, will not be mains, and that I'm now being made to abandon. Most of these characters are tankers. I played them because I like tankers, and wanted to play every tanker primary and secondary at high levels. I moved a number of them off my main server (Victory) when server transfers were free.
These characters are not tricked out with many IO set bonuses like my mains are. My mains mostly did this during the first week the new arc went live, and as such had no issues. Now that this undroppable mission has been flagged NOT FOR TANKERS, if I wanted to run the arc on those characters it would mean standing around on an infrequently visited server begging for a controller to come in and solo the mission for me. Being reluctant to do that, I have to face that these characters are not going to unlock the alpha slot. They have no future in the game, and may as well be deleted.
The thing that's held my interest about this game has ever been that it allows you to have fifteen or fifty characters you break out from time to time instead of concentrating on a limited number of mains. This is what gated endgames do; and when you must face the prospect of getting all the keys open on a freshly made high level character, it's daunting enough to be discouraging.
Good going. -
For tankers, I'd say that Willpower / Energy Melee, Fiery Aura / Energy Melee, Electric Armor / Energy Melee, and Stone Armor / Energy Melee might possibly have the worst synergies.
EM is a slow as molasses set with long pauses between attacks, only one weak multi target attack, and heavy animation lag. It's especially bad for:
- Willpower tankers need to keep mobs close by and constantly attack more than one at once to hold aggro.
- Stone tankers, who have -recharge in their signature power; and
- Fire and Electric tankers, who rely a great deal on their self heal for survivability, and so get killed by long animations.
I'd add Dark Armor to the last category, but the prospect of stacking stuns with Energy Melee makes that combination somewhat more synergistic than the others. -
Movie - gotta go with Kickass here.
Album - Black Mountain, Wilderness Heart A solid year for music, with new albums by some of my favorite artists (Black Mountain, Espers, Black Angels, Joanna Newsom) and solid performances from artists I grew up listening to (Neil Young, Robert Plant).
Comics - Gotta agree with Power Girl. Bad year for the comics I read. Too many crossovers, too many Bold New Directions that fizzled. -
Quote:Ice Melee is a team tanker's attack set. It's full of controls over damage. It will do well to make you survive alphas in the early game, and does better than most at helping WP tankers keep aggro.I've been tinkering around with the idea of creating a willpower\ice tanker. The slows, sleep, and kd seem like, on paper, it'd go really well with willpower and it's regeneration. Does anyone have any experience with this in the mid-late game?
Early game has been a little rough, but mostly due to ice's low damage. Once i got rttc things seemed to get a little more survivable. -
I would add that Confuse, as well as Hold and Stun, seems to prevent Trapdoor from benefiting from his bifurcations, and may send him out attacking them. Unlike you, he can one shot them fairly reliably.
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I pride myself on brevity in bios, while getting the whole story in. Whiskey Woman is my masterpiece, I think, just because of the way it tells a fairly complex concept in a few words:
Some other favorites:
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The main thing about DB for tankers is choice of primary. Basically, you want one that has stuff you can skip in it. This is a bit less pressing now than it was before inherent Stamina, but to get the most out of DB you want to take every attack it offers.
My main DB tanker is Fire/DB. Since inherent Stamina that character now has room for Burn, Temperature Protection, and RotP, but still skips Fiery Embrace to have all the combos instead. -
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Quote:Fortunately, we already do have that system in place. We do have encounters that adjust for team size, bosses that scale for team size, and a difficulty slider for those who want a different mix.These three are all variations on something that's not possible without a significantly complex system which is able to detect and dynamically adjust content's difficulty to a team composition, including a team of a one solo character.
Since tips and hero/villain merits were introduced, I'm doing stuff I never though I'd imagine doing: running missions on tricked out characters at -1/1. They probably could solo them easily at much higher settings, but the objective has changed: running five tip missions a day in as little time as possible.
Quote:I've no doubt that Arcanaville could launch into a long lecture on this topic. What you're seeing is almost certainly a direct outcome of the strength of buffs and debuffs in this game. Without revamping (nerfing) the buff/debuff system fairly dramatically, the devs have limited choices.
Quote:That's not my experience at all. In the thread on Trapdoor getting harder, I posted a video of my Dark/Dark corruptor soloing him as a +2 EB, and that was essentially only possible because of the -Regen in Howling Twilight. I tried it three times in total, and I could not defeat him (at least at +2) without the -Regen.
Now, I was able to solo the new Trapdoor on a tanker (WP/Dark) the other day. Cost me a snow beast and a Vanguard heavy, though. And obviously, none of my characters without mez protection are going to be getting heavies any time soon. The only characters I have left are a handful of tankers on servers where I seldom play, and a retired stone tanker, a creature of i5. Not going to log into a strange server and beg for a controller to come solo it for me any time soon. -
Quote:What I want is for the things that made this game great to always remain in mind and in place for every future addition.Ok, so *what* exactly do players want? Remember, you have to please everyone...
- Easy teaming.
- No Trinity; anything can be run without a tank, healer, or debuffer.
- No gear dependency on any encounter.
- Fast paced play.
- Every character can solo all soloable content without temp powers or similar gimmicks that not every character has access to.
The thing that mostly concerns me now is the fact that debuffs and control are becoming a must fill slot on much team content. This tends to force people into a rather dull role for the sake of the team; but content that is tedious withot debuffs or control often becomes trivial with them.
The one thing that pleases me about the new Trapdoor is that he now seems to be almost immune to debuffs. I thought my rad/archery defender would be able to solo him; he was entirely trivial on my ill/emp controller. I don't know if it was a bugged version or not, but the rad debuffs seemed entirely ineffective, and that character lacked the DPS to chase down clones. Now the ill/emp is the go to character when I help people who are struggling; that one can still solo him when he is purple and spawned for a team.
A team of all Scrappers should be able to brute force anything. A team of all Defenders should be unstoppable, as should a team of all Tankers. No game content whatsoever should be uncompletable or even tedious on a wildly unbalanced team. Your friends should be able to bring the character they want to play, and so should you. -
On the fifth day of Recluse-mas my true love gave to me
Five Aeon clones
Four Bane Spider Henchmen
Three Efficiency Experts
Two Flyer patrols beginning
And a crab spider on the half shell ♪ ♪♪ -
Quote:I'll be perfectly honest; almost all of my arcs have comedy elements. My sense of humor is somewhat surrealistic and odd in any case. I make missions based on forum memes and funny character descriptions, and to the extent I have a specialty it is that: Jerk Hackers, Lesbian Hellions, Deth Kicks, and purpled warshades all figure in my arcs. These themes are generally not the ones liked best by the arbiters of taste here, it seems.What I'm tired of is "LOL" comedy arcs; some arcs just scream "look at me, I'm funny, now laugh!" No, they're usually not. They're mostly one-note jokes stretched out into an entire mission, or worse, a multi-mission arc. And if you filtered out all the ones that are based around customs wearing silly costumes, meta-jokes about bad players, Nemesis plots, or making fun of Twilight, there aren't that many comedy arcs left.
I've never submitted any of mine to Venture for review; I know that they're not the sort of thing he tends to favor. I'm heavily influenced by the Firesign Theatre and other surrealistic comedy acts. My main interest is not drama or RP but strangeness for strangeness' sake.
Because of that, I write short ones. Like a comic book arc that's more than three issues is too long in my opinion, a MA arc, at least one not intended to be a quasi task force, that lasts longer than three missions may be pushing it.
I make them to please nobody but myself, and I have to admit I've been on something of a hiatus for most of the year. I have some new ideas and plan on heading back there shortly.