Havok_NA

Sure Profit.

First off dump the slots in Jab and move them to Punch. By the 40's you'll be leaving Jab out of your cycles.

Temp Invul and Res Physical only need 1 slot each. Anymore then that and you are wasting big time. 6 slotting Temp Invul and Res Physical cap you out (90% RES is the cap) and leave you with a 101.3% RES assuming you have +2 SO's ... get Hami O's and that goes up. So get 7 slots back by dumping them out.

Now I'ld take Hover or Fly but not both. That's my humble opinion but it's up to you Since you aren't taking Super Speed you are free to grab either.

I wouldn't put an end reducer in Invincibility. It's only a 0.28 End/Sec drain. That's about as low as it gets. Yank that out

Resist Elements/Energies is very very low you need to up the slots you have invested in them. Lets look at Unyeilding. With 6 slots invested Unyeilding gives you 46.4% Damage Resistance to Elemental/Energy attacks. With only 3 slots invested in Resist Elements/Energies they give you 33.2%. That gives you a max of 79.6%. You are 10.4% below the cap. May not sound like much but it's huge especially when rounding or fighting those AV's. Put 6 Enhancements in each it's critical.

Drop the enhancers in Swift. It really doesn't buy you anything of value.

Health needs to have 4 slots pulled out of it. This power acts as a 25% Enhancer on your heal rate. With only the base slot put in your heal per minute (HPM) is 33.33% HPM (or about 11.66 Health per second on a character with 2100 max Health). When you 5 slotted it you uped your heal rate to 41.66% HPM (or about 14.57 Health per Second on a character with 2100 max Health). That's not enough bang for your buck. Even with Dull Pain investing in Health is questionable at best.

6 slot hasten I can't emphasize that enough. It will improve your Damage output and reduce the recharge rate when your toggles get dropped. That's critical.

Whirlwind is a great buy

Other then that it's a solid build. You did miss perma-dull pain which is an incredible power but you can live without it.

You are correct went back to my old tanker damage DB I had run several months back and it is the same as Haymaker.

Fixing now

This post is awsome kudos to the OP

How to build Superman v3.0

Ok it's not Superman but it's as close as you can get and it's a lot of fun. I was rather shocked by how enjoyable this build really is. As always I had specific goals set for myself when I rebuilt this character:

<ul type="square">[*]Cap all RES but Psionic (since Invul gets no Psy resists)[*]Must be soloable so the damage output solo must be solid.[*]Must have excellent endurance recovery.[*]Must have super speed and some sort of flight.[*]Does not have to be the ultimate build.[*]Perform moderately well in PvP[/list]
Build Strengths:

As listed above you have 90% Res to everything. You'll have perma-dull pain. You'll be highly resistant to all forms of Mez effects. You'll have a solid endurance regen rate, however with the 'fix' to unstoppable you'll no longer have retardadly sick endurance regen so sappers are now of concern.

Offensively you'll be nearly capping out all your damage bonuses with perma-rage and 6 slotted main attacks. Solo this will make you almost as mean as an axe tanker but in groups you'll still not be able to match their damage output if a good damage booster is around to help them cap their damage bonus also. With Perma-Hasten you'll have a solid rate of attack and with Rage+Invince your hit chance is very solid!

Build Weaknesses:

It's simple you have 3 weakness:
<ul type="square">[*]Psionics (we all know this)[*]Endurance Drains[*]Brawl ... the uber PvP Power![/list]
How does this build compare to the Spines/Regen Scrapper?

I3 and even more so I4 chagned alot about Regen and it's no longer the power house it once was so the comparison now favors the invul tank. Your damage output, while weaker AoE, is actually stronger single target when solo then my Spines Regen scrapper due to the attack chains you can generate and capping out your damage boost. AoE Spines is still king.

Rounding is now supremely worth it against some groups. When solo don't try and grab more then 30-50 when solo it's just not worth the risk of running out of endo and be careful on who you round. Slow opponents, strong mez effectors, and endurance drainers probably aren't worth it when solo.

This character is also more comic bookish. You'll have the definate feel of being a tank except when fighting Psionics which are all too bloody common in the end game

So what is the build?

Nice thing is this is no longer an end game build. You can take this build from start to finish as is.

Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Defense : Invulnerability
Secondary Powers - Melee : Super Strength

01 : Jab dam(01)
01 : Temp Invulnerability damres(01)
02 : Punch dam(02) dam(3) dam(3) dam(5) dam(7) dam(37)
04 : Dull Pain recred(04) recred(5) recred(19) recred(21)
06 : Hasten recred(06) recred(7) recred(15) recred(17) recred(19) recred(21)
08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(9) damres(9) damres(11) damres(13) damres(13)
10 : Haymaker dam(10) dam(11) dam(15) dam(17) dam(23) dam(36)
12 : Resist Elements damres(12) damres(31) damres(33) damres(34) damres(36) damres(37)
14 : Super Speed runspd(14)
16 : Swift runspd(16)
18 : Invincibility thtbuf(18) thtbuf(48) defbuf(48)
20 : Health hel(20)
22 : Stamina endrec(22) endrec(23) endrec(27) endrec(27) endrec(29) endrec(29)
24 : Knockout Blow endred(24) dam(25) dam(25) dam(31) dam(33) dam(34)
26 : Resist Energies damres(26) damres(31) damres(33) damres(34) damres(36) damres(37)
28 : Rage recred(28)
30 : Taunt tntdur(30)
32 : Air Superiority dam(32) dam(40) dam(43) dam(45) dam(45) dam(45)
35 : Hover fltspd(35) fltspd(46) fltspd(46) fltspd(46) fltspd(48) fltspd(50)
38 : Foot Stomp endred(38) dam(39) dam(39) dam(39) dam(40) dam(40)
41 : Conserve Power recred(41) recred(42) recred(42) recred(42) recred(43) recred(43)
44 : Resist Physical Damage damres(44)
47 : Laser Beam Eyes dam(47) dam
49 : Unstoppable recred(49) recred(50) damres(50)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl acc(01)
01 : Sprint runspd(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)

Tricks of the Trade:

Ok this is common sense stuff but some quick pointers:

<ul type="square">[*]Rage will give you a 10 second period where you can't attack and it will drain some endurance (I haven't checked the exact amount yet). If you have an ally with a Mez resistant power (like Density Increase) then they will remove this effect so have them put it on you after Rage drops.[*]Watch your rounding, don't grab more then your team can handle. Rounding is fun but don't overwhelm a group who isn't ready for it. [*]Don't panic! Even when you die you can work your way out of death debt very easily.[*]Res May cap at 90 but be wary of debuffers they are out there. [*]Watch that Conserve Power. I forget to fire this power off many times and it's cost me toggle drops. Watch it![*]Unstoppable in this build is for 2 things that Oh Shiat power AND for when you PvP[/list]
Perma Powers:
Hasten
Dull Pain

Near Perma Powers:
Conserve Power

Toggle Powers to Keep Active:
Unyeilding
Invincibility
Temporary Invulnerability


Hard Numbers

Here's some percentages and values for you to keep in mind. These values use +2 SO enhancers. Remember that RES caps at 90% RES but I'm giving the true values here for debuffing purposes.

Endurance Recovery Rate: 3.01 end/sec
Endurance Loss Rate: 1.06 end/sec
Net Endurance Recovery Rate: 1.95 end/sec

Defense:
Hasten: All 5.0%
Invincibility:
Melee: 6.1% + 9.15% per mob in melee range (to a cap of 6 mobs)
Ranged: 3.66% + 5.185% per mob in melee range (to a cap of 6 mobs)
Hover: All 5.0% (Optional)
Melee Net: 11.1% + 9.15% per foe in range ( to a max of 6 mobs) w/ out Hover
Ranged Net: 8.66% + 5.185% per foe in range (to a max of 6 mobs) w/ out Hover
Psionics: 5.0% (10% with Hover)

Resistances:
Lethal/Smashing: 101.3%
Energy/Elemental: 92.8%
Toxic: 46.4%
Psionics: 0%

When you go to tweak anything in this build be sure to use the following Spreadsheet to check the effect on survivability:

Ultimate™ Invul Tank Spreadsheet of DOOOOOOMMMMMMM™!!!!

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The Poor Man's Guide to Invulnerability/Super Strength

Ok wanted to throw this in for those curious seekers who are new to tanks and needed a guide to know what powers do and what they should do!

Invulnerability
Resist Physical Damage
Havok Happy Index:
Description: An inherint power, this power increases Smashing/Lethal Resistances by 12.5% for tanks. I still say this power should have it's resistances upped to match Resist Elements/Resist Energy but I guess at this point that would make Temp Invul pointless. Take it but don't enhance it if you plan on taking Temp Invul. You don't have to take this power though as you can dump it and grab Temp Invul and 2 slot it.

Temporary Invulnerability
Activation: 3
Endurance: 0.38 End/Sec
Recharge 3.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A toggle power this ability adds a base of 32.5% to your resistances. It's a solid power that should never be enhanced.

Dull Pain
Activation: 1
Endurance: 15
Duration: 120
Recharge 360
Havok Happy Index:
Description: As some may know in Beta I hated this power. Once we learned how to make it perma I loved it. It's an awsome power in it's perma state and NO build should be without it! It increases your max health by 40% and acts like a decent heal.

Resist Elements
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A great inherint power that no build can go without. It adds a base of 20% Resistance to Fire/Cold resistance.

Unyeilding
Activation: 2
Endurance: 0.4 End/Sec
Recharge 10.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Can you say the power of the gods! Yep this power is all that and a bag of chips. It is one of the two 'core' powers for Invul tankers. It grants you 20% RES to everything but Psi plus Mez resistance to everything but Fear. Take it or I'll beat you down!

Resist Energies
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A great inherint power that no build can go without. It adds a base of 20% Resistance to Energy/Negative resistance.


Invincibility
Activation: 3.0
Endurance: 0.28 End/Sec
Recharge 10.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: The other 'core' power for Invulnerability Tankers. It took a decent nerfing in I3 but it's still awsome. It has been changed and now gives the following stats:
<ul type="square">[*]Melee: 5% base + 7.5% per foe in melee range[*]Ranged: 3% base + 4.25% per foe in melee range[/list]It does cap out (6 mob max) and it's useless against Psi based opponents. In addition it adds an ACC boost per foe in melee range. The ACC boost is not known at this time. Contrary to some it does stack with Tough.

Tough Hide
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power adds 9.25% DEF to all but Psi. It's an inherint power which is nice but your boost from Invincibility all but makes this ability useless. There is a lot of question over weither it stacks with Invincibility. Personally I'm sure it does stack. People usually forget that there is an ACC floor of 5% and Minions only have a 45% floor so they don't see much of a gain with this and Invincibility. I don't recommend it as is. It just needs something more to be of value to an Invul Tank.

Unstoppable
Activation: 3
Endurance: 7.5
Duration: 200
Recharge 990 sec
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Ok get ready for a wild ride!!! This power is the craziest power you'll encounter. I love it and hate it. Why? For a 3 minute period you are a god. Your endurance recovery rate is through the roof, you are almost impossible to Mez (you are still vulnerable to Fear), and your RES rates become retarded (70% to all but Psionics). Pity the fool who can't survive 2 minutes of your pounding! Then there is the downside. After those 2 minutes the wild ride ends with you having 0 endurance and 10% of your max health. OUCH!!! Now if you can handle that this power is awsome. There are also some cool tricks that can minimize the pain of Unstoppable down cycles. I don't have the link but one poster put together an AWSOME guide to allowing tankers to handle the endurance down cycle of Unstoppable with the usage of Conserve power AND a timer functionality found in HeroStats.

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Super Strength
Note: Remember all powers listed in here have a PBAoE Taunt component.

Jab
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1
Endurance: 5.0
Recharge 2.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 1.8889
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Can you say the most craptastic power ever created. Even brawl is better then this pile of junk. At least Brawl has a use this stupid power has none. Don't slot it. If you could I wouldn't take it! Oh but wait I would be remise if I didn't say it has a mild Disorient component.

Punch
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1
Endurance: 7.5
Recharge 4.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 2.7778
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A decent punch attack complete with knockdown.

Taunt
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 3
Recharge 3.0
Range: 70
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A good aggro control tool that provides an AoE capability like old Provoke. You have a solid capability to control aggro with this power. It is not a required power for a good tank but it is a required power for anyone who wants to round or be the Rock that teams are built upon.

Haymaker
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 2
Endurance: 12.5
Recharge 8.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 4.5556
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Another good solid power with a Knockdown component. I like this power and it is required for any Super Strength build since it will be your cornerstone attack power.

Hand Clap
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1
Endurance: 19.0
Recharge 30.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: I don't hate this power I just don't personally find it the best usage of a Tankers endurance or attack cycles. I think you'll get better usage out of Taunting and Footstomps but if you want it take it. It does no damage, does knockdown, and has a chance to disorient so it can make a decient combination with some Controller powersets.

Knockout Blow
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 2
Endurance: 19.0
Recharge 25.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 9.8889
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Ok this power rocks and is what restored my faith in the Super Strength set. Up till I2 when they fixed this power Super Strength was more like Pooper Strength. Then they fixed Knockout Blow. Take this power. It does awsome damage, knockdown, and a strong chance to disorient. It doesn't get any better.

Rage
Activation: 1
Endurance: 19.0
Duration: 120
Recharge 240
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Rage, rage against the dying of the light ... oh thought I was getting poetic. This power rocks hardcore. It acts like an 80% Damage Enhancer and adds an ACC boost. It lasts for 2 minutes but when it drops you are unable to attack for 10 seconds unless an ally uses an anti-mez power on you. You will also face an endo drop (I think 15-20 endurance but I haven't verified this yet).

Hurl
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 4
Endurance: 13.5
Recharge 8.0
Range: 40
Brawl Index: 4.5556
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A solid power that is ranged, has a knockdown component, and can take a flying PC out of the air in PvP.

Footstomp
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 2
Endurance: 26.5
Recharge 20
Brawl Index: 3.94444
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Yep this is my favorite power in the whole set. It barely beats out Knockout Blow but that's because it's PBAoE. It sucks that you don't get it till 38 which really hurts SS in the 30's where we are the wimpiest. At 38 though your life changes. Round 'em up boys and stomp them into the ground. It gives you solid damage, PBAoE, and Knockdown.

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Havok's Guide to Flight/Speed/Fitness/Energy Mastery

I'ld be remise if I recommended powers from these sets and didn't tell you what they gave!

Flight
Hover
Activation: 1
Endurance: 0.22 End/Sec
Recharge 1
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Ok single slotted this power is mediocre at best. It gives you a really slow Flight with 5.0% DEF to everything. Now 6 slot it though and it's almost as fast as 1 slotted Flight with far cheaper endurance cost. 6 slot this badboy and round with it!

Air Superiority
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 2
Endurance: 7.5
Recharge 4.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 2.7778
Havok Happy Index:
Description: The best non-epic power pool attack IMHO. It's pretty awsome. It's fast, does decent damage, does knock up, and has a change to knock fliers out of the air. That's fun!

Fly
Activation: 1
Endurance: 2.03 End/Seec
Recharge 1
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power has changed massively. It no longer has the ACC debuff instead it gets supressed to the speed of Hover when you use an attack with it up. However it still has a high endurance cost and because of that I still favor 6 slotted Hover.

Group Fly
Activation: 2
Endurance: 1.5 End/Sec
Recharge 1
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Don't like this power either. It grants you and your closest friends (i.e. those who are hugging you at the time) flight. So long as you have endurance and they stay close to you they will remain flying.


Speed
Flurry
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 3
Endurance: 6.5
Recharge 3.0
Range: 5
Brawl Index: 3.18
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power does ok damage and has a decent chance to disorient. It's coolest aspect is also it's downfall. It has a neet animation that fits its description but the animation is long which hurts it in a solid damage string. I don't recommend this power unless you are building a concept characer. More then likely you'll find you have access to a power that makes a better damage string then this power.

Hasten
Activation: 2
Endurance: 20.0
Duration: 120
Recharge 368.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Possibly one of the 2 most powerful Power Pool abilities in the game this ability significantly ups the recharge rate of all your powers (acts as a 70% Recharge Reducer). At the end of it's duration it does drain a pretty chunk of endurance though so watch those toggle drops!

Super Speed
Activation: 1
Endurance: 0.54 End/Sec
Recharge 1
Havok Happy Index:
Description: One of my 2 favorite travel powers (Super Jump is my other favorite) this ability adds a nice stealth component along with giving you one of the fastest travel powers in the game. As nice as it is it does lack a vertical component which hurts.

Whirlwind
Activation: 2
Endurance: 1.15 End/Sec
Recharge 20.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Ok this is possibly the most underrated power in the game. Simply put this power is awsome for Crowd Control. It's awsome for rounding. Go and pull everything you want to get gathered then turn this bad boy and watch them bounce up and down. Watch your endurance and have fun!


Fitness
Swift
Havok Happy Index:
Description: A simple base power that increases running speed. Its inherint and really is just a power to get you to Stamina.

Hurdle
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Another possible stepping stone on the way to Stamina. It gives you a better virtical on Super Speed so I usually take this power with Super Speed however with this build I chose to take Swift since I already have Hover for Virtical.

Health
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power acts like a 40% enhancer to your heal rate. Unenhanced it increases your heal rate to 35% of your health per minute (HPM). With one enhancer it increases to 38.33% HPM. I don't recommend 6 slotting it but if you do you'll increse yourself to 54.98% HPM. *shrug* Now if you get 6 Golgi Hami-O's

Stamina
Havok Happy Index:
Description: geko once called this power the most powerful power in the game and frankly I agree. It is an inherint that increases your Endurance regen rate by 0.42 End/Sec.

Energy Mastery
Conserve Power
Activation: 1
Endurance: 9.0
Duration: 90
Recharge 600.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Got to love this power. While you can't make it perma the endurance cost of all your powers are cut drastically across the board by 50%.

Focused Accuracy
Activation: 1
Endurance: 1.25 End/Sec
Recharge 10.0
Havok Happy Index:
Description: This power is pretty awsome if you can afford the endurance cost. It adds 33.3% directly to your ACC. That's quite a boost!

Laser Beam Eyes
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 2
Endurance: 6.0
Recharge 6.0
Range: 40
Brawl Index: 2.7778
Havok Happy Index:
Description: What's Superman without Heat Vision? A solid ranged attack that provides a Defense Debuff.

Energy Torrent
Accuracy: 75%
Activation: 1
Endurance: 12.5
Recharge 8.0
Range: 12
Brawl Index: ????
Havok Happy Index:
Description: Ok I don't have the stats on this cone attack. It's short ranged attack. I believe the arc is 120ø I believe. I do not know the damage but it does have a knockdown component. It's a solid choice for you soloers who need some AoE damage.

The cackle

And the 'chin stroke'

Oh ... skulking ... some kind of skulking emote

[ QUOTE ]
The increased aggro is something that's close to implementation....The increased damage has proven a tad problematic, but we're wrestling with some ways around it. I'm afraid I can't give anything definite there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awsome States. Glad to see you are keeping tabs on what we are worried about. FYI the changes are making some happy tankers

I hope you are sticking to your promise and coming out with these changes soon I droped Provoke after respec since you'll be doing these fixes. I'm putting my faith in you big daddy

According to UnholyS ... Scrappers are all gimped compared to tanks and tanks are uber gods and powerhouses

Don't stress him ... paper tiger that never backs his words up with more than pissing and moaning. All talk no action.

[ QUOTE ]
The only crap here is the crap you incessantly spew on the subject.

Fire Secondary does more damage than a Spines Scrapper, both in AoE damage, and in single target damage. That isn't opinion, that is fact. Go ahead and compare the damage. Oh, and just don't forget that nearly everything resists lethal damage whereas nearly nothing resists fire damage. But even if that WEREN'T the case, Fire Secondary does more than Spines.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh really hmmm ...

You really think that an Invul/Fire Tank can hold the same amount of sustained DPS as my Spines scrapper?

lol ... you are smoking some seriously good crack there buddy.

Fact: Fire has longer recharge times and endurance cost then Spines/Claws.

Fact: Spines has a larger reach with Throw Spines than anything in the Fire Secondary.

Fact: No Invul/Fire tank out there can keep up with my DPS.

[ QUOTE ]
No way around it? You can herd so well because foes don't do that much damage. When 5 foes can alpha strike you for the "one shot kill", how good are you going to be to a group then?


[/ QUOTE ]

They have to hit me to kill me. I have fought foes who can kill me in 2 to 3 shots and still mass herd them. When I was leveling up to 50 I was pulling 150+ level 50 mobs with 2 Demon Overlords in each spawn (about 15 baddy spawns). That's about 10 per mass herd. They do enough damage to nearly knock my life to half with Dull Pain up. With 10 of them in spawns I ended up taking 2 Alpha Strike deaths in 2 runs through the milk mission ... but within 1 mission the death debt was gone and over with. I took the debt and grinned. With 15 minutes of work I got that much XP. Invul/Fire can't keep up with that. Endurance baby ... endurance

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I know, Thorn, your current FOTM build is a Tanker, and you don't like that they don't do certain things as well, so you've been calling for Scrapper nerfs

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh please can you show me the Scrapper nerf where I wasn't being sarcastic. Please pull me a specific nerf I cried for. Hmmm... can't do it can you. This is what is called a bullsh*t flag. You are full of sh*t and can't back up your statement.

Here I can do it: You have been calling for Controller Nerfs forever and think Controllers are overpowered and step on Scrapper toes you know you have. ... wow lying about what people say is soooooo cool.

Further my build isn't FOTM I built it in pre-release so unless you can show me who knew Spines/Regen was going to be this good back then I guess you get a 2nd bullsh*t flag thrown on you ...

Wow how does it feel to be so full of sh*t ... do you smell bad too?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

3 out of 4 Scrapper secondaries can supercede Tanker Secondaries.

Tanker Invul &gt; Scrapper Invul/Regen/DA &gt; Tanker Ice And Stone &gt; Fire

That's the way it works.



[/ QUOTE ]


Um, no. I am DM DA scrapper and I have NO DEFENSES from DA except toward a specifc type of damage at any given time. So ANY TANKER has better defense than DA scrappers because at higher levels nearly all mobs do more than 1 type of damage. IF mobs only did psychic damage, or only did smashing damage, etc. then your statement (about DA anyway) would be closer to the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ice and Stone operate the same way ... they have the same issue as DA. Only difference is DA is better ... they get actually RES that is awsome and can cap out Smashing/Lethal RES without getting the drawbacks that Stone has to do in order to get it.

Nope just wanted to correct you. Don't care about your arguement.

Number of AoE's are unimportant to me. Quality of AoE's are important to me.

For example I don't see why you even bothered listing 'Utility AoEs'

They do not improve kill rate and they don't help offense. They can 'help' defense but you and I both know Offense is King in this game. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding himself.

[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, one SPECIFICALLY BUILT Scrapper secondary can APPROACH Tanker defenses, but NOT equal it. That is a fact, whether you like it or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

3 out of 4 Scrapper secondaries can supercede Tanker Secondaries.

Tanker Invul &gt; Scrapper Invul/Regen/DA &gt; Tanker Ice And Stone &gt; Fire

That's the way it works.

[ QUOTE ]
But, then, like I also said, you can build a Tanker with better offensive capabilities than many (most when you take into account the uberness of AoEs) Scrappers, and that is WITHOUT Burn.


[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh no. Show me a Tanker without Burn who is better than a non-gimped Scrapper. I've played both AT's more than you have and I can say that this is utter crap.

[ QUOTE ]
The #1 reason why Tanks are not what they should be (other than some powersets being broken) is because the late game does not allow the strengths of a Tanker to be useful. That will soon change, though (both the broken powersets and the ease of the late game).

[/ QUOTE ]

No ... no it won't. I don't care what changes they do my Regen Scrapper will always be more desirable in a group then my Tank. There is no way around this. It's an unfortunate truth.

Throw Spines and Shockwave are both Cones.

[ QUOTE ]
LOL I'm sure it'll come as a great shock to Poz that he's a female.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poz got a sex change

Oh my lord ... I always knew there was something funny about him ... errr ... her!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Statesman, you've been hinting at changes "coming soon" to deal with lack of challenge at the mid to upper levels for quite a while now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right after Expansion 2 goes live.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest I'm more concerned about when these tanker changes are going live. I don't want to have to wait another Issue release to get them

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In other words if you are not an AT or build with resistance to status effects you are not allowed to solo at high lvl?


[/ QUOTE ]

That's what the Inspirations are for! To help the solo player!

[/ QUOTE ]

No inspiration gives Sleep resistance

That is one issue I've always had

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Couple that with the enormous penalty for grouping beyond the 4rth person and you just don't see large teams anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Penalty for more than 4 people? Certainly not XP wise; players get an XP bonus for having larger and larger groups. What are you referring to?

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to address this one States.

From experience across any level XP over Time has shown that 4 person teams are about the optimum grouping for max xp.

This isn't a 'penalty' per say just a fact of gaming. You get 4 people together who know what they are doing (i.e. highly skilled players) and they can tear apart spawns that you designed for 8 players in the time it would take an average 8 player group.

As such 4 players becomes the natural evolution. As you grow both in skill and in power you learn how to maximize this 4 person grouping.

It's as simple as this:

When it takes 40 seconds to defeat a spawn of 12-24 villians regardless of the number of heroes from 4 to 8 what number of heroes gives the best xp rate?

Obviously the 4.

It's as simple as that. 4 players kill way to fast in this game. It's a factor of life.

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Fellow heroes, disturbing information has come to light. Thanks to the hard work at the Federal Bureau of Super Powered Affairs and the Portal Corporation, we have discovered an odd energy signature throughout Paragon City. Researchers believe that this aetheric energy appears to be building towards a climax at some point in the near future. We believe that this will occur at some point over the next several days, but the authorities are not yet sure. All heroes should be on the look out for anything strange in the city. Be on guard; we have reason to believe that this bodes ill for our metropolis.

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Ooooo ...



lol ... please tell me that you will make this an all day event I'm going to be totally bumed if I can't join in because of work

Just to back Paragonsman up.

I've played a couple different types of tanks and several scrappers. Tankers are not close to being on par with Scrappers with the exception of Burn tanks who's DoT accumulates quickly.

Any 'time' bonus to Fire Tanks will be moot because you can bet the fight will be over long before they will get a boost. Other thanks though will have issues. There isn't a Tank out there (not even a vaunted Fire Tank) who can kill 160 Demon's as quickly as my scrapper can (mostly because Burn is a small patch and not all baddies will collect in that small area).

Scrapper Damage &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; than tanker damage.

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As promised, I've been looking into the issues facing Tankers; I thought I'd explain the direction we're going. As we analyed it, Tankers have three very valid concerns (aside from the issues with specific power sets):

1. Without Provoke, they are not a real Tanker. Those people who enjoy the MMP role of "meat shield" have trouble holding aggro properly.
2. The Tanker's defense stats can be matched by a properly slotted Scrapper - but the Tanker can not approach the Scrapper in damage.
3. The Tanker doesn't "feel" like a comic book Tanker should. And frankly, this one really, really bothered me. Because our game is a comic book MMP.

So - here's the solution we're going to try internally. We went through a ton of possible solutions, and we weighed each one against how well they answered the three points above as well as how long it would take to get done.

1. Tankers will get a "provoke" like AOE effect on their melee attacks. The more a Tanker lands his blows, the more and more mobs he'll attract. The bonus here is that it's not exactly like Provoke (it's not ranged) - but it makes a lot of sense. Some huge monstrosity is bashing the heads of a villain group - they're going to get more and more concerned about taking him/her out....

2. As a Tanker lands more and more blows, he'll start doing more and more damage. The longer the fight, the more powerful the Tanker becomes. I can't say that the Tanker will do as much damage as a Scrapper - but it'll certainly be more than he does now. This ability really gets to the core of a comic book Tanker. He's extremely powerful - but at the start of a fight, he holds himself back some. As the battle progresses, he lets loose....I prefer this system to a power because this way it's inherent. It's simply the nature of the Archetype. And it also sets the Tanker apart from the Scrapper's criticals.

Of course, the thought in your minds must be....WHEN?...I'm afraid I don't know. First, we need some code for this. Then we've got to test it thoroughly. Finally, it'll go on the Test Server for awhile to gather data and impressions. This is going to take some time; but I thought you'd like to know at least where we're going, even though we don't know when we'll get there.

Feel free to comment!

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All I can say is WOW!!!

I've been seriously thinking I was getting bored with the game and perhaps it was time to take a break but this ... this is huge.

Statesman I can't tell you how excited I am about this change.

You are my hero!!!

Thank you very much for finally getting to the heart of the matter and really hitting what is broken with tanks.

Thank you thank you thank you!

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Now one thing I need to comment on is the group of people who claimed it was a non-issue or that everyone else should leave it alone or get over it. When it was moved, it suddenly became very important to the future of the game and society as we know it.. Bad form gang show your beliefs up front, don't try to wield inertia.

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For some of it was a non-issue and when we had thought that the devs had caved too whining and crying of a small minority then the 'caving' became an issue. What the labels are about I no longer care. Now that Statesman states that he had already planned on this change I'm satisfied. So if you directed that statement my way please retract it

Thank you for the response Statesman.

I greatly appreciate you taking the effort to answer this question.

Personally I think it would have been better to add a second Badge and having that be at the Statue (and calling it Freedom) rather than changing the Patriot Badge and 'caving'.

However you've responded and for that I'm satisfied.

Thanks for the response big time and I feel I can let the issue rest.

Nope it's -10% per level below yours and +5% for each level above.

Not completely true. It all depends on what you are using.

Lets say you have a max boost of 400% to your attack.

Your base increase from 6 +3 level SO's would be 329.77% ((1.15*6*0.33)+1). Obviously that's below your 400% cap!

But if you start throwing on a 70% bonus from a damage boost from a build-up like power (I don't know the exact percentage from build up) and a % bonus from Assault then you've already exceeded your 400% max and thus no longer get any benifit.

Now those are the base those aren't exact for all AT's!!!

For example Tough is 20% for Tanks (been tested multitude of times ... go do it yourself if you desire ).

Tough is 15% for Scrappers ... again tested multiple times

Weave seems to follow the same standard fo 20/15/10.

Further every single defense you see listed is higher for Tanks (around 7.5% for any 5% you see and Scrappers will usually be around 6.25% for any 5% you see on this list).