Grey Pilgrim

It's an aesthetic thing, and as always, some people like the choice and others don't. I find the wolf to be awesome, as do most I have played with since I22 released (and I have heard more than a few comments on how great the set plays and looks).

I really do understand the sound issues, though the wolves aren't as noisy as demons, thankfully. I notice the wolf less when it's farther away. Still, the devs should know players don't like repetitive noises (they dulled toggle sounds, for crying out loud) and hopefully they'll tweak this.

It was meant to help with its control (overall , so I'm glad they kept it. This will help a lot on BAF for my Grav/Time... I wasn't able to get the AOE immobilize into the build, so it will give me more things to slow down minions with than just my AOE hold and ancillary AOE attack (chance of KB). It will help other places too, for that matter. Keen on seeing these changes go live.

It's certainly an interesting approach to it, but I don't know that it's really even merited. If Pulsar did Mag 3, it'd be good enough (even with the long animation time). To change a power so drastically, it has to be really not working well as is (the whole cottage rule thing). The power isn't bad in concept, it's just too weak for what it is.

I like the thinking, though. Arcanaville is kind of suggesting something similar for Blaster ST attacks to help out their survivability, which I find really interesting. I think the concept works better for a whole AT (and the idea is different forms of mitigation based on the powerset), rather than a mez power that just needs a little oomph.

Of course, comparing to JB only flies if the two things are analagous, which they aren't. I would say JB is overly grumpy and negative about the state of tanks, though he's not always wrong. I can understand being annoyed about Brutes getting fury instead of tankers, as it is a fun concept that was originally "planned" there (or whatever passes for planning with Jack Emmert). His argument that Tankers are supposed to hit harder actually relates to the change made with Bruising, which is a great concept and a good help for Tankers against hard targets, which really were their weaker points soloing.

That was a digression, though, , because like I said, the two cases aren't similar. I've got plenty more solid reasons for my arguments than some gut feeling of what Tankers should be. Can you even argue for why Pulsar merits a Mag 2? You keep talking in other directions that never have anything to do with what is said (who said anything about getting rid of Warshades? Stay on point or I'll start saying you're pulling straw men and other logical fallacies on purpose). A guaranteed Mag 3 in Pulsar is no threat to the superior mezzing capabilities of Warshades... they have more than the cone that Pulsar is roughly analagous to. Pulsar at mag 3 for sure would just make them semi on par with what Warshades can do, and make the power more worthwhile.

I'll leave it at that, since you haven't really argue anything in response than "No, I can do this stuff with my Peacebringer!" No one is arguing Peacebringers can't play the game. People are arguing that there are powers in need of help, however. Stop confusing the two.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but this is something you consistently do in any discussion, New Dawn.

Diggaroo, I would say we are supposed to switch between forms however we like and to meet whatever situation we are facing. That's the whole point of a formshifting class. The toggle issue comes from some of CoH's mechanics more than anything... most other games with form-shifters don't have toggles, but take on new inherent abilities by default and don't have to toggle anything (like Dwarf and Nova currently do).

I don't know if toggle suppression is something they think is needed and the issue is the time involved to fix it, or if they don't even think it's merited. I've never heard a dev comment on it, so it would be good to hear.

No, Golden Girl has used a winky, therefore the logic is flawless. Obey the winky, thou heathen spawn!

You, sir, are a wonderful individual and I agree with these points entirely (though my first character was a Tank, second a Scrapper, and my 3rd to 50 was a Blaster... so you can go from melee to Blaster and have fun. Scrappers can sometimes feel boring to me, actually, hehe. Not that I don't enjoy them as well). May this wisdom spread.

The idea would be actual control or soft control, rather than mez resistance, correct? I'm seeing that bandied around in this thread, but from what I remember in similar Kheldian threads, your resistance, even if it's 100%, only would let you resist have of the mez power's duration. So mez resistance isn't a good thing to go for. Hopefully I'm remembering that right. I do like the idea of some kind of proactive mitigation, as it fits well with the AT and could mesh okay with what Defiance can already do.

How was it "nerfed?" To be weakened or nerfed, the power had to be Live in some other shape or form that was stronger. Arbiter Hawk's posts make it pretty clear that they built it to proc differently depending on the power it is in, whether it has higher or lower recharge, how many targets it hits, etc. It has a lower chance to proc with AOEs so it's not procing on everything you hit.

You can either put it in AOE powers to give it a chance to smack a couple mobs or at least one in a group, or in an ST attack where you know what it will be hitting.

Really? You're a bit too nice, and I tend to push Minnesota nice to the extreme!

It's a new feature of I22 and a big reward for vets, as well as purchasable by players. The devs showed a willingness to make sure the Scrapper proc was working as needed (look up Synapse's posts). If it isn't something that is fixed soon, that's an issue. Sure, it'd be tossed on the other things that could use attention, but that's not an argument in favor of letting it sit.

The answer to that is if any set doesn't match your playstyle, don't play it, or adapt to it. Design of any kind, if it's going to have any character worthy of recognition (and use), must have a focus, must have a style. Not every AT or powerset is going to appeal to everyone. I love Tanks, but I can't stand Stone. I love Blasters, but I can't stand Ice. You can play well enough with both sets, but I just don't care for their style. That's not a slam on them, that's just the way it is.

Electric does require a little more focus on that end drain ability to make it work, but that is a characteristic of the set, keep in mind (and really, you should be paying attention to how to leverage a set's abilities). You do need more than just Short Circuit going to end drain well, and plenty of sets have defining powers. Archery is more than just Rain of Arrows, but you sure remember that set and it's an important one that really makes the set work. You could say the same for many sets out there.

How much are the powers penalized, and is that actually the case? The tier 1 and 2 blasts don't seem penalized, looking CoD really quick. Ball Lightning is a little weaker than some, so you could maybe argue that it pays for the end drain it does there. Thunderous Blast is a "weaker" crashing nuke, so that fits the theme people are stating in the thread, though I haven't had issues dropping mobs with it when I have used it (beyond Nova and other crashing nukes). It has the same issues other crashing nukes have, yes, but I don't know that it's really beyond the pale.

I dunno, I guess I don't see THAT much merit to the "it's weaker due to end drain" argument. I would say its biggest issue is ST damage, but there are things the set does to compensate for it, too. If snipes are changed like Arcana kind of suggested in the archetype forum (make it a decent ST power in combat like the recent change to Stalker AS), that could be fixed, too. Of course, we don't know if that'll happen.

In the ITF example cited above, I haven't ever felt like I wasn't adding much on the ITFs I've been on. My E^3 helps with big mobs, and he's also able to put the hurt on all the EBs and AVs in there. It's not just perception, either, which is always a variable thing... you're not doing hugely worse than any other blast set would be (again, looking at the numbers above).

So if you want to argue for this, I guess just make a good case for which powers need help, why, and justify it well if you want the change. And do it while keeping the end drain schtick viable. Even if some don't use it (and it is useful in common PVE fights, unlike some have said here in this thread), it is a fun characteristic that people use, and use to their benefit.

I just don't get what he could possibly be seeing. Solar Flare does damage on par with a lot of Tanker AOEs. Tankers. Not Scrappers. Human form is not equivalent to tankers: Dwarf is. What justification is there to say the power tips the balances too much when it matches up with a weaker damage class? I know Arbiter Hawk often says you have to look at the whole set, and I certainly agree. But there isn't anything in the Peacebringer human form damage potential that puts them past tankers, let alone in the ballpark with Scrappers.

You know what is also insane and I have only recently discovered? For their ancillaries, Brutes and Controllers both have access to Energy Torrent. It does KD and not KB. Arbiter Hawk's recent changes to Propel are going to have it doing AOE KD (revised from KB after player input). What more do Peacebringer players really have to do to show that KB in Solar Flare (not even their ranged attacks) is not beneficial? The devs can see it for other powersets and ATs... I am just at a loss for how to know what they are thinking.

I would love two things. A solid justification of what he is seeing that makes Peacebringers so strong offensively that removal of KB from a staple power of theirs would make them TOO strong. I would also love to hear what kind of role he sees human form Peacebringers as having. Are they closest to Scrappers? Dominators? Either class outdamages them, even with removing KB from Solar Flare.

The onus is on players to show this to the devs, rather than just say "it sucks, fix it!" But we HAVE shown that. We've compared powers and powersets and ATs, and Smiling Joe did a good numeric analysis. There is nothing in any of that data to show that Peacebringers are in a position to threaten Warshades, Dominators, or Scrappers in human form, and considerable evidence to show that they are substantially weaker (not to mention many comparable powers get KD instead of KB).

I do not understand what he sees as the role for human form, or what analysis he is possibly using to make his worries about the KB to KD debate viable.

He's supposedly got some idea he's working on to give people KB options, but that hasn't stopped other powers and their KB considerations. If the idea flies, it should work for any powers that have KB with them. In the meantime, don't make people wait for a much needed performance boost because something might be in the works for far down the line. This isn't like the possible changes to Snipes and Nukes that are in the future. It's something that can happen now.

Peacebringers basically have very little VIABLE AOE mez options currently. Their KB puts enemies out of range of their best attacks, and they are better off using an attack than Pulsar. They can defeat minions well enough (or hold a troublesome well enough) that it's not worth using on just them when the lts. and bosses will still be roaming.

Warshades have far more options. Dominators certainly do. Even melee sets for Tanks, Brutes, and Scrappers do, as their KD or other mez opportunities synergize with what they can do. The strongest comments I got from him in a PM on this was concern about Pulsar stacking with IS, which is what he thought I was suggesting. I don't know that even that would be overpowering, but just making Pulsar worth it is needed.

Again, I don't know what use he thinks Pulsar has, or what kind of analysis he is using that shows the improvement would be overpowering. Peacebringers can't do the mez or soft control that other sets take for granted.

I don't know what they are planning. He just said that he would like to shorten how long the formshifts take, but that doing so requires animator work (it looks weird if they just speed it up). It's on Tunnel Rat's list of things to do, last I heard (August of last year or so), but nothing else. A LOT of animation work has been done since then. A lot. I'm not saying Kheldians deserve priority over everything else, but they at least deserve a spot at the table for this change over the past six months. We can hold off on more over-priced items like a frisbee throw (I like the power, but sheesh, a powerset should have some kind of priority).

Anyway, sorry to talk at you, but I had a moment to get the ideas out there again and thought I would try to state them. Might help. *shrugs*

Sounds good. Best thing to do is to keep highlighting player concerns and the DATA for them (not the emotion). There are very good reasons for why Solar Flare would be better to change to KD, why Pulsar needs to be a guaranteed Mag 3 stun, and why time needs to be found for a lowered animation time to the Kheldian formshift.

There are other things that are still wonky, but I keep going to those because they're so easy to show (or were stated as being wanted to be done but haven't yet). They're also the ones I feel like I can explain the best. I'll leave form viability to people like Smoking Joe, etc., that can explain that side of things better.

I'd like to know this as well. Make sure to bug it and send them a PM with your data. I'm sometimes amazed at how bugs go unheard of by the people that should be hearing about them.

What kind of powers are you using? If you're just using Ball Lightning and your ST attacks, the end drain is going to take a long while. You need to use Short Circuit, etc., to make a big hit on their end bars, and then Ball Lightning and the ST attacks are enough to keep 'em down or most of the way down.

Sorry if you knew that already, but it wasn't quite clear if you were using more powers or not. Still, using Short Circuit and Power Sink let my E^3 Blaster drain everyone in a regular mob in a few seconds from the level 35 on (and he was able to do it fairly well with just Short Circuit and his other powers). He even end drained a War Walker EB he was soloing on an Apex. He does have the Interface proc that end drains, which helped with that, but it still stands in my experience that end drain helps with most mobs.