GreenGiant

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20 million invested into /SR isn't going to make an AV killer without inspirations. You need enough dps (160 is a good target) to out pace AV health regeneration. You need enough endurance management, and recovery to not run out of gas because AV fights can take several minutes depending on the resist type. You'll want high regen (295-300+), and while some folks skip Aid Self I *highly* recommend it for defense builds.

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Yeah, I am aware of the cost to make an AV killer with /SR but soft cap early means the game is much much more enjoyable early and the path to AV killer is more obvious than /WP.


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Ah, I gotcha. I sent you a PM. I didn't include just how I combined IO's to get the results that I have. The PM just gives you the details on the raw numbers that I was able to achieve, and what set IO's I used to do it. Hopefully you can find some of it of use to inspire your own designs into a SS/WP build.

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Thanks a lot! You basicaly went HP/Regen/Speed way. Can you solo AV's with your stats?

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20 million invested into /SR isn't going to make an AV killer without inspirations. You need enough dps (160 is a good target) to out pace AV health regeneration. You need enough endurance management, and recovery to not run out of gas because AV fights can take several minutes depending on the resist type. You'll want high regen (295-300+), and while some folks skip Aid Self I *highly* recommend it for defense builds.

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Yeah, I am aware of the cost to make an AV killer with /SR but soft cap early means the game is much much more enjoyable early and the path to AV killer is more obvious than /WP.

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Inspirations is when the brownies hit the fan or when I know it will (like I am gonna face an EB). If I die with useful inspirations in the tray it's because I was surprised I went down.

I noticed that you get way less inspirations when in group than solo which is something that should be fixed imho.

For normal gameplay, I find it normal to not have to use inspirations and since I know some builts can take on an AV and 8-man spawns at relentless without inspirations or any external help (soft caped /SR for example), it's annoying and frustrating that I need them just to defeat an EB.

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I think this is probably one of the biggest problems right here. Builds that can take on AV's, and 8 man team spawns without inspirations are not cheap!!! You can soft cap /SR for less than some other sets, but there are also other factors to take into account when fighting AV's/Pylons etc... Don't fall into the hype thinking that WP is so amazing that it doesn't need some planning before you rush into a fight. Red side you face some really nasty baddies, and there is no shame in using orange/purples before engaging.

You really need to understand your weaknesses vs some targets, and then use the resources you have to help survive it. Just because a Toxic Tarantula hands you your behind does not mean the set sucks. You have very low resistance to toxic damage, and virtually no defense for it. If you used an orange, and maybe Strength of Will before hand you can let your regen do it's job without being overwhelmed. I just use this example because I remember it happening to me. Willpower has little in it to control the out come of a fight, and not enough defense/resistance to survive all types of targets. So sometimes despite how awesome the set is you need to be a little proactive about your defense.

As for the build that makes SS/WP a beast I have to ask you something. How much time/infamy are you willing to invest? I found the set combo fun from 1-50, and quite tough in some situations. However, it wasn't until I spent more infamy than I care to discuss on purples, LotG's, and several uniques that mine became a "beast". If you don't like the character I wouldn't recommend spending any more time with it. It could very well be that it's not for you.

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It's just to give me an idea of what a SS/Wp can reach with sets, not sure if I will invest in it or not.

as for /SR, at 50, it costs abotu 20 M to cap, less if you get steadfast and gaussian cheap.

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People see it stronger than /SR but I fail to see how it can ever be superior than a soft cap defense oriented set.

[/ QUOTE ]Willpower has the distinct advantage of being built AFTER ED and IO sets. Alone, it's very underwhelming. You're a jack of all trades without enough of each to really protect yourself. What happened is that players immediately identified the issues Willpower would face on Test, enabling them to turn the power set into a complete beast by the time it was Live.

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Do you know where I can find a SS/WP for mid built that would give me an idea what they used to make it a beast? I wonder if Mid will ever be updated with I14 enhencements, Gladiator armor is not in there.

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People see it stronger than /SR but I fail to see how it can ever be superior than a soft cap defense oriented set.

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I have a 50 SS/WP Brute and a 45 Fire/SR Brute.

They aren't much different in terms of playstyle. WP is "set it and forget it" meaning there is no active mitigation like INv with Dull Pain. And you know what? SR is the same (I put Practice Brawler on Auto).

My /WP is more survivable right now since he's got a few levels and slots on my SR Brute. In the end they'll be about equal I suppose but I have done the RWZ Scrapper Challenge on my SS/WP Brute easily and I'll have to give that same challenge a shot on the SR for one comparison.

Finally, I'll say the powersets are about equal and play very similar to one another depending on the Primary.

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Is you /SR soft capped? if so then I must be doing something wrong because I was surviving much better on my /sr scrapper (playing at invincible since lvl 27 with it with 38% melee/range defense at that time).

I guess I will just level up a /SR brute when my /WP get to 50 since I'm so unhappy with it. It might just not be for me.

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I have a SS/WP at 30 right now and a DM/WP at 50. Both can take the lead on 8-man teams without any problems and the DM/WP takes on any EB I have found with ease. I only have common IO's in them, no sets.

What is your build? Do you have Tough and Weave? Post your build so we can see where you are having problems.

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I posted my built in my first post. it is about the same now but add Haymaker and Maneuver and remove fast healing (will take it back at 49, I removed it because of the slotting limit). Haymake is slotted like my other attacks (lvl 48 now instead of 45).

do you play at relentless of heroic when in those teams?

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Maybe you have to compare WP with some other secondary power sets and not just SR.

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Why? WP is considered the best for brutes and I know /SR since I have a lvl 50 scrapper with only crafted basic IO (except for steadfast 3% def and gaussian). In other word, I can compare because I have knowledge of both powersets.

People see it stronger than /SR but I fail to see how it can ever be superior than a soft cap defense oriented set.

Inspirations is when the brownies hit the fan or when I know it will (like I am gonna face an EB). If I die with useful inspirations in the tray it's because I was surprised I went down.

I noticed that you get way less inspirations when in group than solo which is something that should be fixed imho.

For normal gameplay, I find it normal to not have to use inspirations and since I know some builts can take on an AV and 8-man spawns at relentless without inspirations or any external help (soft caped /SR for example), it's annoying and frustrating that I need them just to defeat an EB.

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Stuff to avoid going JUST on visuals... Gravity (since... well, you don't see much)

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I find Propel(Gravity) hilarious, the item you throw is random.

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Maybe I am getting hung up on your term Tanking. I agree you should be able to defeat 7-8 man spawns. Especially if your L45 now certain opponents might require an adjustment in tactics. I do not understand why your having problems.

While I do not have a SS/WP. I do have a few SS and a few WP. My WP seem to do very well in crowds without IO's. My L28 SM/WP Brute does not even have Fault or really need it.
My L30 Claw/WP Scrapper handles Hazard zone spawns quite well and even herds to better use his AOE.

I tend to hear this problem about Brutes not preforming well when people use the term tanking. My Brutes preform a lot better when they are Bruting rather than Tanking.

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What I mean is to be able to run into the spawn and stay alive without any external help while doing my Bruting (in this case, it's tanking by killing).

Are you going into instanced missions at relentless (invincible) difficulty and take the alpha strike for 8-man teams with your /wp toon?

48 now and at 47 I died from to many longbows minions and lts (playing at ruthless) in a mission instance solo (kill mobs in a warship). Very often I had to eat a lot of inspirations to stay alive abainst EBs. That's why I am very worried to spend on this toon.

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They are meant for teams.

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That's why When You've completed the game content, bragging right is important

But I'd be happy just to be able to tank 8-man relentless spawns but I have problems surviving EB at the moment.

I'll try to find cheap IO sets that raise regen and recovery and see how it works (I only have 20 millions influence though and 300 M is considered cheap by some people but it is ridiculously expensive to me so I'm not sure what you mean by cheap)

thanks

I fear to spend infamy on my toon because I see it like a loose-loose situation.

If I could cap all dmg type defenses, it would be the best but I'd have no resistance to defense debuff so it seems a waste assuming it is possible to do so but I don't see how to cap all 7 damage types.

Raising regeneration, hp and attack speed will never be enough to survive elite bosses let alone an AV. I'm playing at ruthless and it takes lots of inspirations to survive elite bosses beyond the 20-30% defense + 20 tohit debuff and SoW unless the dmg type is s/l (I have 50% res to s/l before SoW). I believe that even with FS coming back fast I'd get destroyed fast by 8-man spawn at relentless.

There is also no reason to invest into a built that doesn't seem to be good enough to solo an AV while the pure defense builts can (/SR, /SD without inspirations unless I'm mistaken but if there is a SS/WP that can do it I'd like to see that built).

I've respec'ed to bring back Haymaker in the built and add healing IO into Rttc, it helps against minions but I still get destroyed by large group of minions and lts.

My primary target is to be able to tank 8-man relentless spawns without external help (including inspirations) and stll deal high damage (soloing AV would be a nice bonus but I don't expect it the be possible); anyone got a built that can do that?

thanks

Hi,

I'd like to know if AV and GM have resistance to endurance drain.

I know they have a high resistance to to-hit debuff but is it the same for all negative effects?

Thanks

Hi,

I'd like to know if Placate is useful solo to get the auto crit twice or is it canceled by getting aggro?

thanks

Well, there are at least 500 stupid badges out there and I'm generous, they're making badges for everything. Cut them to 200 and that would be fine that would make them think twice about putting yet another pathetic badge!

Endurence management and the way they implemented IO set bonuses are probably the 2 biggest anti-fun features in the game. that would fix one

All it would do is let you fight longer and be less suceptible to drain...wow! that's overpower! not...fun enhancer it would be.

very few badges worth getting, it would give a purpose to them.

I suggest that each 10 badges give 1 endurance.

I have a SS/WP lvl 45 with only Steadfast 3% def as set IO(Rest is crafted standard IO) and I'm not satisfied at all by its survivability.

I'd go /SR instead of /SD because it is easier to soft cap but endurance will be a huge issue for either.

Of course, it depends what difficulty level you're looking to play at.

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Hiya!

Ok, so I see a few things that might be holding you back. First up you skipped Haymaker for Boxing. Haymaker is your next best attack after Knockblow, and before you can get Gloom. Haymaker never gets old, and should be a staple of your attack routine. It provides a chance at Knockdown so you are missing out on some mitigation there. I can understand taking Boxing to open Tough/Weave, but I put all those off until the 40's without trouble.

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I had it until I respeced it out because it rarely did it's knocked down and I needed quicker attacks to get fury which truly became it's only purpose but I admit that wth 2 recharge it seems to be fast enough, I will take it at 47.

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You have Rise to the Challenge slotted with to-hit debuffs, and not healing. The to-hit debuff is weak, and the scaling regeneration per foe in range is the strength of that power. Your slotting in your other defense powers looks fine though.

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I had RttC slotted with healing before I changed it because the regeneration wasn't doing the job of keeping me alive and the To-hit debuf in it is like having 5 defense on minions and lts (and probably bosses) but either way isn't satisfying anyways hehe but I thought that combined with Darkest night, it would add quite a bit to my survivabilty. I'll think about putting back the healing slots.

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Have you always had such endurance trouble? Darkest Night is a wonderful power, but it is an endurance hog. I don't use it all the time, but save it for special targets. At least that is how I use it solo. Teaming I might be a bit more Liberal with it's use. I've used Hasten since level 6. So I have had that crash, and the Rage crash to deal with before I took Stamina at 30. I rarely had major endurance issues if I was mindful of when the buffs where fading. I kept a couple of blues in my inspiration tray for the times when both crashed together. Other than that life got better after Stamina. Blue skittles are always your friend though.

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Yes but that's why I respec'ed out Hasten hehe both rage and hasten crash made it too painful (that's how my attacks ended up with recharge). I only use Darkest night on bosses and my endurance is a problem even without DN, I should wait a bit in between fights but when you have the scrapper minding, you don't lol!

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So I would put healing in RttC, and see about getting Haymaker. Both should improve your performance. As far as IO sets I'm a huge fan of Hit points, Regen, and then Recharge. Work on the HP accolades, and Marshall too. They are all well worth the time, and effort.

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Ok, I'll try that. I'll put back Hasten and boost my recovery of, I'm a huge fan of hasten.

thanks

Hi,

I have a SS/WP lvl 45 and I'm planning what direction to give him with IO sets at lvl 50 since I've had all sort of problems surviving when there are 7-8 mobs around me. The regen never was enough, the defense never was enough, the resistance never was enough (even with SOW, including S/L dmg if there is a boss) and now that I have Darkest night, the Def + ToHit debuff is not enough although I'm now facing mostly arachnoids and I believe they bypass most of my survival tools.

at the end of this post I've included my mid's built and now I'm wondering which direction to give it at lvl 50, Defense + to hit debuff (I know I can cap neg, ene, cold, fire without to hit debuf) or Regen/Recovery/Atk Speed (to maximize Knockout blow and FS)?

So far, compared to my soft capped f/Sr scrapper, it's a very big disappointment, I even have endurance problems (I never imagined having to use rest in the 40s with /WP but I did!). I play my scrapper at Invincible and my Brute at Ruthless and I rarely need to use inspirations with the scrapper while I use a lot of them with the brute.

the last 2 powers are those I intended taking but for the base built but the IO built will certainly differ although the base one too since it gets on my nerves.

Tanks

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1,401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Orion 45 pre-Io: Level 48 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Punch -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(3), Acc-I(3), RechRdx-I(17), RechRdx-I(17), EndRdx-I(19)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(13), Heal-I(13)
Level 2: Mind Over Body -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(5), ResDam-I(5), EndRdx-I(15)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(21)
Level 6: Boxing -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(7), RechRdx-I(7), RechRdx-I(23), Acc-I(23), EndRdx-I(34)
Level 8: Knockout Blow -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(9), RechRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(11), Acc-I(11), EndRdx-I(15)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(21), DefBuff-I(25)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- ToHitDeb-I(A), ToHitDeb-I(19), ToHitDeb-I(27), EndRdx-I(27)
Level 18: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(31), EndMod-I(31)
Level 22: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ResDam-I(34), ResDam-I(34), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 24: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 26: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(33)
Level 28: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(29), EndMod-I(33)
Level 30: Heightened Senses -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(40), DefBuff-I(40), EndRdx-I(40)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(36), Acc-I(37), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(37), EndRdx-I(39)
Level 35: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(36), DefBuff-I(42), EndRdx-I(42)
Level 38: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(39), ResDam-I(39)
Level 41: Gloom -- Acc-I(A), EndRdx-I(42), Dmg-I(43), Dmg-I(43), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 44: Darkest Night -- ToHitDeb-I(A), ToHitDeb-I(45), ToHitDeb-I(46), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Dark Obliteration -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Fury

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Second suggestion: Save our missions on the server, not on our computer! When I read that the file was limited because the file was to be downloaded on the server or something like that, it made me wonder. It also have the disadvantage of being lost if something happens to your hard-drive.


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If you publish the mission it puts it on the server. You can still edit and republish there. The only problem I know of is that if you want to make a change in the custom groups you have some problems with being sure the right local information is available.

It makes it a little trickier but you can do a lot of editing on the published mission live. But now that I think on it I'm not sure how changing the custom critters works when it's updated if you're not at your 'main' computer.

Hmm....

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but you are still limited to 100k file and my suggestions would means that you can put much more text and custom mobs by keeping the heavy stuff on the server instead of the user'scomputer.

Publishing has the problem of having a chance to be seen by all while it's not ready.

/signed

Cut scenes add lots of flavor to any rpg.

My suggestion is to order the missions by the least played (then by oldest) by default to give a chance to people like me that made a mission arc that no one has even taken a look at yet and it has been a couple weeks now. I bet that very few bother playing with the search engine.

Make the people work to play the boosted...err... best ranked ones because no one will do the effort to play anything else since you get to play the 'best' by default unless you also ask your guild to boost your mission ranking which corrupts the whole system.

Second suggestion: Save our missions on the server, not on our computer! When I read that the file was limited because the file was to be downloaded on the server or something like that, it made me wonder. It also have the disadvantage of being lost if something happens to your hard-drive.

It might be because of the lags but in that case, keep the custom mob creation on the server since it is the biggest thing and save rest on both the server and the computer.

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If you're softcapped anyway, I don't believe the tohit debuff is doing anything more for you. I didn't know that AV/EBs resist the damage debuff, though.

I'm actually trying to make the same decision on my shield brute, and I think what persuaded me is that darkest night is a better set mule (dark watcher's despair), and that OwtS doesn't provide enough survivability to be a good panic button.

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it would be helpful against mobs that use builtup-like powers and other powers that boost to-hit

It is very useful for AE missions(and pvp) because custom mobs can have those very easily (hard and extreme).