Gallant

"Do you like PvP?"

No, I don't.

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For the PvE folks reading this, no, Vengeance is not meant to stack in PvE, either and the change, when it happens, will apply in those encounters as well.

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Will this be true of NPCs (Nemesis Lieutenants), as well?

If so, I can accept this.

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Just to make sure this is kept on the front burner.
Fix both sides of the fence when you fix it please.

Two words:

Signature Power.

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And hey, let's be careful out there...

Good old Esterhaus.

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I preferred his original tagline:

"Let's do it to them, before they do it to us."

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YAY- no nerf!
Not yet anyway

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How do you see a removal of the AT mod, and thus a reduction in the healing amount of the power as "no nerf"?

Because the nerf slipped in a while ago?

Regardless, he still got "Visitor" which implies he got badge #10 first.

No other badge should mean no Visitor.

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He's saying that he's well aware of how the concept of wrap-around works, and it isn't applicable here.

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Your statement makes little sense in relation to the discussion. (Other than as an attempt to be smarmy, in which case it is equally pointless.)

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Then this...

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...There is no "Accuracy Wrap Around" -- otherwise Blasters with Targetting Drone + Aim + Build Up would never, ever hit, which is not the case.

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And this...

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I'm well aware of how wrap-around works. There were several arcade games back in the '80s I had problems with this in as far as score went...

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Are contradictory statements.


Why would you state the first, if you are 'well aware' of the second?

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Because all those buffs, if warp arround, may take you to something like 5% IF there was warparround?

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Unlikely, since Aim alone is supposed to be around 100% Acc buff.

Then this...

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...There is no "Accuracy Wrap Around" -- otherwise Blasters with Targetting Drone + Aim + Build Up would never, ever hit, which is not the case.

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And this...

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I'm well aware of how wrap-around works. There were several arcade games back in the '80s I had problems with this in as far as score went...

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Are contradictory statements.

Why would you state the first, if you are 'well aware' of the second?

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Other mobs can break my placate on another target. Or that a mob can attack while placate is animating, still be placated and I lose my chance for a crit.

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Any more detail on this so I can get QA to try and replicate it for me? Are there certain critters that do this, or is it a general case? Do any special circumstances need to be met?

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My experience with this one going back into beta is that *any* hit form a non-Placated target "unHides" you from your Placated target as-well.

I did not fond any special circumstances needed, and it happened so ubiquitously that I assumed it was 'as inteneded' and did not bug it.

So, two mobs, say a boss and a Lt.

AS the Boss -> Placate the Boss -> Lt. Hits you for damage -> Boss snaps out of Placate -> No Crit damage on attack to Boss

In my experiences anyway.

Hope that helps.

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Geko and I were both surprised to find out that the powers system already DID this

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I realize that CoH's direction has gotten me touchy and paranoid these last few months, but....

Anyone else bothered by that phrase?

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You mean more so than them not noticing that they were 2-shotting +7 mobs in their test environment and being confident enough about it to post a video of it?

And then *still* going ahead with their 'power adjustments' based on this erroneous set of data, even after their mistake is pointed out to them?

Nope, in line with the above, them not understanding how the power code works is not especially disturbing.

I think you missed several points of what I said, even in the parts you quoted, but rather than a long piece-by-piece debate, I choose this as the key point to respond to.

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...It's not pretty, it could be better, but it is what it is.

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If it can be better, then we should continue to try and make it so, and that won't happen via apathy or blind acceptance.

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Gallant, your post pretty much summed up what I was going to say, and I had already rated you 5. Want a cookie to go with it?

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I think you and Cyberberus already gave me a couple, thanks.

Some of the players with the most passionate responses are also the ones who care the most about the game.

Being respectful to anyone is important, Devs included. I must say though, that over the past year it has seemed (I say 'seemed' not 'is') that the same level of respect is not always returned. And I don't mean that Devs are directly rude, but that they sometimes take what appears to be a condescending approach of You don't see the big picture, so you do not realize that what you are doing is not actually fun.

This ignores that some people spend almost as much time playing the game as a Dev spends working on it. It ignores that many players often are more current and aware of power changes(as a whole) than the Dev team sometimes appears to be. And it ignores the (I think) obvious problem of actually telling someone else that you know better than they do whether or not they are having fun.

There has also been much disillusionment over the Test server.

Folks spend hours and hours testing changes, give extensive feedback, and find widespread support of their findings, and then the changes go through to live as is. (Only to have the Devs find on Live the same issues that were reported by players on Test.)

There is much that goes into peoples behavior, and I think that the fluctuations in respect go both ways. It is just less subtle from the players side.

If we cared less about the game being great, we would just quit, not criticize.

I would like to end with a thank you to you Cuppa for still being an advocate for the community, even though we are so contentious. And one to the Dev team for making this game, which I have enjoyed greatly this past year+. You are obviouosly a talented team.

Now about SS&SJ...

-Gallant

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Sorry, folks, but anyone who thinks the SJ and SS change was only due to PvP has had their head in the sand for the last year. The fliers usually make at least one major thread a month pointing out that currently fly has FIVE major drawbacks to use, while SS and SJ have maybe one each. If only one of those is changed, it's still not quite justice, but it's certainly long, long overdue.

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I'll bet you big bucks that giving Fly the same speed cap as SS would make the majority of fliers happy. (Still need to slot it up to get there.)

Give it the same base speed and almost no one would be crazy enough to complain.

Or give it the same End burn as SS and have similar results to bumping the speed cap.

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Yes, the ones we fought tooth and nail for.

They did not make it because the PLAYERS were passionate.

The Apathy Squad got nothing done. They waited to see. The passionate ones fought for the love of the game. The Apathy crowd just quietly moved to WoW, EQ2 and so on..........

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And what of the objective ones?

There's a reason I sit on the fence a lot of the time... Can't see both sides otherwise.

And should we NOT have to fight tooth and nail? And does fighting tooth and nail synonymous with throwing a tantrum about it? I'm seeing a lot of that... it's not helping.

Not at all.

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There are dozens of changes on every patch that are not argued over. So by your logic, if folks let so many go by, then the ones they argue over are debated for good reason.

And all sitting on the fence does is ram a post up your backside.

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So let's... what?

Jump in a time machine and go back before all of this happened?




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Fine by me.

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Fine, fair enough...

...and also not going to happen. So what should we do that's actually in the realm of feasibility here?

I despise PvP, think it's horribly unbalanced, and could frankly do without it, but, as I said, once you know a thing you can't un-know it. So let's try to make the best out of this, shall we?

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Neither of your post's made a lot of sense, but I will guess that you are saying that, since PvP *will* be implemented, and they Devs feel that they *must* balance it, we are stuck with PvE changes?

If that was your point (and if not, please actually make one) then the answer is very simple, change powers for PvP and *not* for PvE.

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I just love these posts about something that is going on Test server and may even not make it to the live server...

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I just love these posts about "It's only on test..."

Yep, I remember a lot of them in relation to Invulnerability.

And more about Regen (which has had most of the original changes slipped in, they just spread them out to be more 'subtle').

For those who post such things; if no one points out what is bad on test, why wouldn't the changes go live?

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...Is PvP a consideration? Sure. Is it THE consideration? No...

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Allow me to join those who say, I 100% don't believe you. If you were not adding PvP, this change would never happen, and not because you had 'missed' something.

And you stating (earlier) that you can as effectively 'hover-snipe' with these mobile powers shows either extreme hyperbole, or a gross lack of understanding of sniping mechanics. You can pick.

You can ignore your players all you want, but the truth is you are removing fun from the game with this change, and that there is no PvE 'balance' issue involved.

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And what exactly is the big honkin' problem with SS and SJ in PvE that warrants a nerf?

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I keep shooting off my text-mouth without reading: Statesman addresses the issues here.

I still don't see it with Super Jump... but I'll hop to that thread to babble about it.

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Let's look at what Statesman said shall we?

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o Added 50% ToHit debuff to Super Speed and Super Leap. PvP/PvE

There was an inherent unfairness with the travel powers; only Flight had a -50% ToHit debuff. Yet Super Speed and Super Leap could create situations similar to hover snipe (i.e. flying above a mob and firing away) where they could fight at little to no risk.

Example: click on Super Speed, run up to mob, attack, run away. Rinse and repeat...

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Hmmm, in PVP this could be problem if the opponent could not queue-up a power, but it should result in the same one-for-one attack trade as normal combat.

In PvE this is never a problem because the AI *always* knows/remembers to queue an attack. In addition, most PCs can normally fire attacks at mobs at a greater than one-to-one rate; by using this tactic, you actually reduce your attack rate to being equal to that of the NPC. In addition, all NPCs in a group will 'remember' to prep an attack, so you will actually be hitting one enemy once, while you get hit multiple times.

So there is no PvE problem, and if Jack really thinks this is 'no risk' fighting, he really needs to take some time off from the office and try playing the game to see that what hundreds (if not thousands) of his customers are telling him, is the truth.

But he won't, and the player base base will be dismissed as 'whiners'.

Agreed.

I like the changes and can't see any harm in them. Nor do I understand how people can be getting upset by this.

The rock is awesome, thank you Positron.

-The edge of the hand drawn across the the throat.

-The good old chin-flip with the fingers. *feh*

-The dismissive 'hand-out-palm-down-flick-of-the-fingers'. as in "take the body away".

Thank you Statesman and team, looks great!

I can't wait for the weekend.