G_Tanker

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Everything I've read has said the aggro cap is 17. Where'd you get 16?

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It probably is 17 and I'm just too used to saying 16 at this point

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I'll admit I was guilty of pulling over the aggro cap a bit, early in my career. There's nothing in-game that tells you there's a cap so I think it's not that surprising that a lot of players aren't aware of it. Generally speaking taunt/aggro is really confusing and poorly understood. The Tanker version of "healer" is "tanker with taunt" (or "stone tank", but that's another issue) where many people think that "taunt" is uber when it's really just a useful but limited utility ability.

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Oh yeah. Nothing kills me more than watching a tank taunt guys right next to him while I'm using LBE or ET to pull a guy outside the group off of a squishie (while sitting in a saturated invinc).

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Also, YMMV, but I've found that the groups that can melt 54's still melt 52's even faster and get better returns, at least for tickets.

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I think for tickets you are accurate. I prefer 54's for exp. Heck, most 54 maps I hit the ticket cap before we get 1/4 of the way through.

Do you need more +end?

I have a fire/invuln/body scrapper that's not having end problems (admittedly no extended solo) and I'd imagine a regen has it even easier. I'd save the Miracle for a needier character.

Mad props on the Girl Genius pic, btw!!!

Now that I think about it, really a f/f/p tanker with capped S/L defense ... blerg.

My build above is going to be useful in more places, but... meh. This would kill faster (fiery embrace being *huge*) and just as safe in many areas. Slotted for sets and did this in ~3m so it's not a 'final' build.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(A), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(3), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(3), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(5), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7)
Level 1: Scorch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(17), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(7), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 4: Combustion -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-%Dam(19), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg(29), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 6: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Hasten -- Empty(A), Empty(11)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(33), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(34), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg(45), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(A), Zephyr-Travel(46)
Level 16: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(34), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(36), RctvArm-ResDam(36)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A), Empty(21), Empty(21)
Level 22: Consume -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-%Dam(23), Oblit-Dmg(23), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29)
Level 24: Weave -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(25), HO:Cyto(25)
Level 26: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), Zephyr-Travel(45), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(45)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 30: Fiery Embrace -- Empty(A), Empty(31), Empty(31)
Level 32: Build Up -- Empty(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit(33), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Incinerate -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(37), KntkC'bat-Knock%(37)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- KntkC'bat-Knock%(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(39)
Level 41: Ring of Fire -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(A), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(42), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(42), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(43), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Char -- BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Empty(A), Empty(48), Empty(48), Empty(48), Empty(50)
Level 49: Healing Flames -- Empty(A), Empty(50), Empty(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet

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I just finished building out the offensive portion of my spines/fire with melee defense at close to 39%.

I take too much of a beating and it's kind of disappointing.

I'll keep it for now.

What I love about it is the heal comes back quick. I can also deal a boatload of damage with caltrops, build up, burn, spine burst, ripper and throw spines. Huzzah.

What I don't like about it is that the S/L resists are only at 52% and 40% isn't good enough even against +1 lieuts. If I want to play it safe I pop a purple and an orange.

I was just hoping he'd perform better.

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I hear ya, I've been agonizing about tanker vs scrapper for 3 days - I want scrapper damage, but I crave tanker survivability. I think I'm going to go the Dark/Fire/Pyre tank route; 46% S/L, 41% Melee, 30% Range, 25% AOE, tanker resist levels (weak: En 33 toxic 31 rest ~50+) with 3 AOE's and great self heal

Of course, -tohit, energy and slow kryptonites (relatively speaking) and my main concern is loss of endurance and recharge, but at the moment my build is +1.87EPS and I've been running with +1.99EPS... the only change in attack chain being Combustion goes from costing 8.5 end to 11 end. And no single target attacks worth clicking.

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Thanks for reading my post Ok, I don't care about money, but for the sake of argument and if you don't mind, give me a Balls to the Wall build, and a more achievable priced build (not cheap or economy, but a still very Nice build just not over a billion nice.)

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One of the main questions I'd ask is what sets/ancillary pools have the best DPS.

Fire melee, Dark Melee, War Mace and Stone Melee seem like the current contenders - what's the max attack chain possible with those (++ ancils)?

Keep in mind a dark, ice, or fire secondary* adds more damage.

Ed: * - primary. Too used to scrappers.

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Yeah, going after 54 bosses is a pet peave of mine. As a tanker the 54's are more challenging and can be more fun but I almost always get better tickets/xps from 52's. I try to explain this to groups but they always seem to think that bigger numbers means its better.

Another pet peave is that, as a tanker, I like to be on damage heavy groups because I know I can keep a lot of aggro. However, eventually someone will get aggro and die. The problem is that sometimes I'll get yelled at for that.

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A few pet peeves here;

54's are better if you build a team to melt them;
Teammates that don't understand that 16 is the cap for agro should be shot;
Tanking characters (note: I do not say tankers) that don't actively manage the size of the group should be shot.

/end comment. shoot dead horse.

uh ... seriously?

You want maneuvers + the three bubbles slotted, and the rest of the leadership pool is heartily recommended. I'd recommend force cage, pff and repel just for fun and oddity. You could pick up the medicine pool (aid other, aid self, resus - no need for stim) if you *REALLY* wanted to. And maybe the psi pool for an aoe sleep.

But... you don't need 500mm. Heck, at this point any team you are on should be pure win already just from 3 bubbles + maneuvers slotted.

dm/inv would get my hat tip of the two given you have a f'rad... better taunt aura, more selective durability.

For my recent FM calcs, I used the (0.8 * total dot damage) + (regular damage) method.

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Ultimately I think my friend would be happier with the Scrapper option as he is not the type to want to stand there and let other people kill the map for him.

It's up to him, but I think that is my recommendation.

Hell, Maybe I'll build the opposite of whatever he chooses and we can run them side by side.



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So, here's my other thought, as I was looking into it... if you're going fire melee, I'd go tanker.

Just from playing with #'s (napkin calcs in excel) the tanker's weaker damage is made up for with combustion and fireball. While I *love* energy torrent, fireball hits more targets, easier to use, etc etc etc.

I was struggling to decide between fire melee + shield tanker or scrapper, and I think I'll be leveling a tanker.

Disclaimer: I like big teams, multi spawn herds and crazy situations, I don't solo or think about single target attack chains much.

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...contention held by another friend that..

"No Scrapper is ever better at surviving than any Tanker".

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Hahahahaaha!

Tankers are much better at surviving in general, but there's definitely an overlap area when you're comparing scrankers with DPS tanks.

(edit: By a similar token, some blasters are more survivable than some scrappers.)

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I think his point was given the same defensive powerset (ie: sd to sd, da to da). Otherwise, I have some faceplanting tankers to introduce him to that aren't quite built for the 54 boss farms my scrappers run.

Also found a 61/81/61/69/86 that isn't bad.

I like recharge!

So many ways to do it. I sort of like 61% acc, 66% dam, 61% end, 74% heal, 94% rech but *shrug*.

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 21 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee

Level 16: Siphon Life -- Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(17), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(19), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(19), Numna-Heal/Rchg(21)

Of course that was about 30s worth of playing around.

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On most teams in most situations a tanker is needed. At that point a melee toon that doesn't die is plenty good. now if it is required that a damage sponge sit in the spawn and HOLD agro then a scrapper probably won't cut it.

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Hahahahahah.

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Did you consider Spines/Dark? It has a damage aura, its end hog heal can be turned into an end gain. Similar resistances and defenses to fire with an edge on psi dmg and a slight defense edge in CoD. Defense gains through IO's are almost identical. Slows from primamy add mitigation. Besides, who doesn't like a dart-shooting shadow?

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Sigh, why do you throw another option out there. Bad Jebe.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Technology Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Weapon Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Barb Swipe -- KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(9), KntkC'bat-Knock%(9)
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam(11), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 2: Death Shroud -- M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(A), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(3), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(3), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(5), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7)
Level 4: Lunge -- KntkC'bat-Knock%(A), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(15)
Level 6: Spine Burst -- Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Oblit-%Dam(36), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Oblit-Dmg(37)
Level 8: Murky Cloud -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(27)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- Empty(A), Empty(39), Empty(39)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-ResKB(17)
Level 16: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Quills -- M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(A), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(19), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(19), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(21), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(34), EndMod-I(36)
Level 22: Cloak of Darkness -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(23), HO:Cyto(25), Empty(25)
Level 24: Dark Regeneration -- Empty(A), Empty(39), Empty(40), Empty(40), Empty(40)
Level 26: Obsidian Shield -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(34)
Level 28: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(29), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(29), KntkC'bat-Knock%(31)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 32: Weave -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(33), HO:Cyto(33), Empty(34)
Level 35: Throw Spines -- Empty(A), Empty(46), Empty(48), Empty(48), Empty(48)
Level 38: Ripper -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-Dmg(43), Oblit-%Dam(45), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Web Grenade -- Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(A), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(42), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob(42), Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(43), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Targeting Drone -- Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit(45)
Level 47: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(A), Zephyr-Travel(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit




Not sure I like it. Extra slots in dark regen and throw spines would really be nice. Also, I like that the dark/fire/pyre would have 3 AE's... hmm.

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Also, I have around 4 vet respecs per toon, so I will probably make a pre-22 build, a pre 32 build, and a post 32 build - or something similar.

Thanks

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Forwarning: I am an unabashed powergamer and I don't like the low levels.

I typically zoom to 35ish and don't enhance till 22 - and I grab crappy lowbie IO's for key powers as I go up.

When I hit the 40's, I use an alternate build to free-spec into my 'final' goal and start getting real IO's slotted.

I have vet specs lying around, but why waste one

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... cuz I like damage. Also, fireballs to the face do make for agro, and it has decent range at that.

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Do the epics also work with Gauntlet/Punch-voke then? Does a Fireball from a tanker work to taunt the baddies it hits? Or are you thinking more as an alpha, before anyone else generates aggro?

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I use it to get another group into the group I'm currently in? Easier than running over there and hitting them, after all.

Logged into game; +400% taunt for 13.5s is what power info says.

Fire melee and Pyre mastery (fireball).

I'm toying with a 45.5% S/L, 37% melee, 28.5% range, 27% e/ne, 23% aoe defense build that lets me keep everything I want... but it means I have to 4slot either incinerate or GFS, so it won't be soloing much.

... cuz I like damage. Also, fireballs to the face do make for agro, and it has decent range at that.

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One more point I want to make about +4 boss farms;

I've seen more kins FS & die in a heartbeat than any other debuffer. The reason is they want to get near the mobs to use FS, they last 1-2 hits, and often there's more than the agro cap floating around (or they're not controlled) so the mobs take umbrage at the debuff and pop 'em like balloons. (Ed: I personally enjoy killing 2+ spawns at a time, without a tanker - which is quite doable on a good team - but getting near them as a squishy just isn't wise)

Everything else can debuff from a pretty safe distance, and trollers have immobs. Fire/storms who know how to use hurricane to push immobed mobs back into the killzone are by far my favorite conceptual troller for farms. Pity I never see them

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I would also add that Hot Feet frequently adds to their woes. I was just on a team with several Fire/Kins with my Fire/Rad. One fire/kin in particular died so frequently, it made me consider putting recharges in Fallout.

He decided mid-mish that Hot Feet was to blame. Possibly, I wasn't keeping that close of an eye on him. I was running Hot Feet as well, and standing next to the tank most every mob. Then again, between the dubuffs and the tank's taunt aura, that is sometimes the safest place to be.

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Urgh. I keep seeing squishies that fundamentally don't understand the agro cap. Admittedly I aim for 2-3 spawns at a time on my runs, but even with 2-3 taunt auras there's still some floating around, and remember that debuffs are working at 48% effectiveness vs +4's so they're not always as debuffed as you'd like.

Don't get me wrong, running hotfeet can be fine if mobs are tightly packed and debuffed. You can in fact do this with no melee characters whatsoever and do just fine, even vs. +4's. But a 54 boss with only one RI on him has a pretty darn good chance to hit you.

PS: Always take fallout. Always slot it up for recharge and damage. Amazing power.

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To get back on subject, I think the discussion was originally which primary/secondary would be best at assisting a tank on +4 boss farms.

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A) Why do you need a tank?
B) If it's just 1 tank, 1 controller, fire/kin.
Ba) If it's 'what controller adds in the most stackable way to a typical farm' then fire/rad.

My $.02

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I'm sure you can. Tanker DM by itself can reach ~130-140 DPS without help from the primary, with a saturated Soul Drain and the Smite - SL - Smite - MG chain, and survivability shouldn't be a concern as gathering mobs for SD will also mean more fodder for Dark Regen.

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I'm feeling very confident about it now. Up to this point I had never entertained the idea of soloing an AV because I've been busy making builds for DA which demonstrate its viability for every facet of the game except soloing AV's. I've found a strong appeal to DA while at the same time noticing that Justice lacks DA tankers. I figured I'd get the word out by example but can't really convince people to join a tf with a squishy DA tank. Now taking this avenue into consideration, soloing an AV I believe would help greatly in reversing this stigma.

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Hey Jebe, mind shooting me some aoe oriented builds? I'm trying to enhance DA's survivability on a tanker.

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On the other hand, Invinc is only 8' radius, so having a few more options would be nice...what about pairing Invuln with Fiery Melee - Combustion and FSC both PBAoEs, lotsa of DoT, Combustion has wide radius - does that work?

Can an Invuln/Fire get softcapped Def, high resists (with 90% S/L), grab agro well, and still manage do dish out some decent damage? Is this one of the better ideas, especially against an AE boss farm?

And I assume that Stamina would be desired, as would Combat Jumping (for def), and Tough and Weave?

Thanks.

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Uh... yes?

I do this on invuln/fire/body and invuln/dm scrappers. They're much harder to cap. A tank is a cakewalk

I find my dark/fire/pyre tanker doesn't hold up well in the farms my invuln/fire/body scrapper strolls through (heavy S/L of course) ... I'm debating reworking her IO's to softcap her S/L.

Anyhoo. Invuln/Fire/Pyre is fine. There is a recently constructed fantastic guide on invuln typed-defense softcapping, see the guides thread. You will definitely want stamina, tough and weave. CJ is somewhat optional, I'd probably take it just for more general +all defense but it depends on what your build has room for. I prefer hasten on about 98% of my characters, too.

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Hey scrappers,

I'm trying to decide which of the following toons to build and really sink inf into. Here's the background: I am looking for a melee toon I can really enjoy playing all the time. This means a good mix of sturdiness (defense + resistance), endurance (recovery + healing), and most importantly, damage - with a big leaning to AoE, not single target. I like big teams, farms and general chaos, and I enjoy tanking (albeit I usually don't need a tanker to tank). I love task forces and I prefer to play at 50.

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Spines/WP maybe?
Spines for the AoE damage.
WP for the defense+resistance+regen+recovery.
Sounds like its what your looking for.

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WP is something I never really considered. You'll note all my secondaries (or tanker primaries) add more damage...

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Well, except that I don't believe there are any truly untyped attacks. I believe that they are all typed as something, however, some don't have a damage type, but they will have a positional, and some have a damage type, but not a positional.

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Mmm. Annoying rikti non-positional attacks make my /sr scrapper (capped to range, melee and aoe - but not to psi) cry.