Frosticus

Sure you are, great minds and all

Oy! Blaze of course.

Na I dunno, I counted 6 powers last night +as,bu,placate, but I think I double counted buildup

I vote for FE in the primary.

scorch
FS
Breath
AS
Bu
Placate
Cremate
FE
GFS

I dunno what they would do with incinerate because if dot was ever an issue incinerate is the embodiment of that issue.

Maybe FireSwordCircle...

So my vote in no particular order, though all are probably too good to ever happen.
Blaze
FE
FSC

While I'm not a personal fan of how Castle adjust things most people are very satisfied with the rebalancing acts he has done in the last several issues. Not just to single powersets, but entire AT's.

If it came out looking as good as claws, but with b/u instead of followup I think it would be a great set.

For me at least, the slows and .33 mag immobs on many of the powers fall way below the fact that it is one of the slowest attacking sets out there now.

I could also sacrifice a bit of range on spineburst for a smooth playing set. Heck the range on impale was cut in half while I was actively using the set on a daily basis and it came with no beneficial offset. I could swallow other changes a lot easier if it came with a very fluid playing post-changes spines.

but ymmv.

Anyway, I've had my say and it is obvious that some people (not you Santorican, I get where you are coming from) can't think objectively due to biases. That's ok, it is what it is.

Stay on topic please. We were talking about drawn sets, so EM, blasters (defiance changes to arch and assault were mutually exclusive to redraw changes), and brawl all have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.

katana switching to two hands was long long before redraw was adjusted.

Claws IIRC was shown to be extremely powerful with baked times removed when it was thrown up on test. So the entire set was rebalanced at the same time and made much more aoe centric. So like I said claws (and the knowledge learned from it and applied in a similar form to widow claws, but not identical) is the only set that has actually been changed when the baked in drawn times were removed.


At least you recognize you don't know what you are talking about. You can say things like heuristically generated balancing factor all you want. People said the same thing about PSW relative to old psi assault. But somehow I seriously doubt that when spines was designed Geko (or whoever did it) said, "this set is perfectly balanced with these pauses, but none of the other drawn sets are and I hope my replacement fixes all of them except spines". Ya it is pretty stupid when you actually examine just what you are saying.


get up to speed it is i16.

And yes spines IS a drawn set as I've stated several times it falls into the drawn/weapon sets and experiences REDRAW. It's hard to comprehend I know.


I know when they made banes and widows it was done with no prior knowledge whatsoever amirite?

I know exactly what the redraw tweak did. It removed the baked in redraw time that practically every weapon/drawn power in the game. If you force a redraw you increase the cast time to ~original values. It makes for much more seamless attacking, much faster attacking and it was spread to almost all other attack sets that benefit from it when it was so successful on dualblades.

In general it takes about 0.5-0.8 seconds off of the cast time of every attack depending on the associated redraw time. I think most fall into the 0.7 area, but I gave a range as some seem a bit faster and others a bit slower.

It does not change the actual animation (though I think some powers were tweaked a tiny bit), it just removes the pauses and hitches thus reducing the total cast time.

Exactly, except for spines, it still has the pauses at the end. And as for quills welcome to i16, not to mention that I'm pretty sure I've experienced redraw w/ quills going prior, ya the spines would stay out, but you'd still go through a redraw animation prior to attacking. Admittedly it was some time ago so that might be hazy.

I think you keep arguing that spines is balanced enough to not require the redraw to be taken out? But then at other times you seem to be arguing that the set doesn't even have redraw?

I can agree with the first statement, but it in no way means that the issue is not present. If you are saying the second, well you are just wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but only claws (incl widow claws) has received adjustments based on cast time. I don't recall any of the other weapon sets being altered due to chopping off the pauses. I recall Clobber being buffed, but that had nothing to do with animation trimming, but rather buffing the set as a whole.


One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong.

If the devs have made the decision across 25 or more powersets (including repeats across AT's) that weapon sets will no longer have baked in redraw times and 1 set remains... you can explain that however you want. Heck I (and others) were able to justify PSW at one time, so go for it.

As I've said several times in this thread, feel free to correct me and name another drawn set that still has baked in times. All I can think of is probably the mace patron attacks, though there certainly isn't a lot of attack chaining going on with them.

A few examples of sets that used to have baked in draw times and have been reinvigorated by BaB's.
Gun(s)s (ie I doubt dual pistols will have it)
Bows - arch and TA
Swords - kat, BS, dual blades
Axe/Mace
Claws
Widows
Banes

Sets that haven't been updated
Spines
thorny assault
.
.
Oh I thought of another one, maybe pulse rifle hasn't been done... yet.

Call it w/e you want, an oversight, pending, future prospect, I'll get to it when I get to it. I've been told in other discussions that most would label that a "bug". If that is the incorrect terminology then my apologies. Semantic quibbling aside it doesn't change the fact that w/e you call it, it is there.

take care.

Yes if I solo I'm sure I'd get much better mileage, or if I solo on a team even.

It really doesn't need to be buffed, but neither did any of the scrapper weapon sets. I imagine it was more of a personal task BaB's set upon himself to clean up the messy work that was original implemented. Whether it ever happens to spines or not who knows, but it is the last set needing it AFAIK.

I can understand why he'd do it for weapons too, he generally does pretty tight animations and the old pauses and hitches in the sets were...not tight.

The ranged toons are never ahead of me, but a lot of teams have enough buff debuff that they don't have to hold back and wait on the "meat" to collect the hate. By the time I land in the group a 1 sec cast fireball from 80ft away is pretty easy to do, especially if I lead with throw spines on the way in.

I probably could stray far ahead of the team, like when they are mopping up the remaining of the group, that is good and very effective and probably the thing to do. I don't really like when people do that though because it is usually a few bosses that remain and scrappers are labeled "boss killers", so it always kind of bugs me when a scrapper runs ahead to minion sweep. Even though I realize spines is a much better minion-muncher than boss killer. I guess I've always sort of seen it as a person trying to be the "big shot", no matter how effective.

If spines were looked at I'm not sure the immob in impale would disappear, but maybe. I'd certainly enjoy it with a ~1.7 cast time though. I'm sure all the little 0.33 mag immobs would go bye bye though, but most people don't even know they exist and I'm not sure how much they really do in practice.

edit: I should note, that if I make the team this is less of an issue, it is something I encounter when I join existing teams that are already doing well. I mean yes scrappers are often superfluous in teams, but I think their must be a solution beyond quit and joining a crappier team. I'll reiterate, this is not a problem I've been having on my fire/sr, but was quite prominent on my spines/regen and I really feel like the only meaningful difference between the two in an aoe alpha is that spineburst is so slow. Anyway , have fun out there guys.

Now? when did they start reworking the drawn times out of sets. Now is a relative term, as in now it is 2007

It is the only set left with baked in draw times. I've been told a "bug" is also a "design flaw" in other discussions. Call it w/e you like, its the only one that hasn't been updated with the new system. Despite how many people have jumped on me now, that is not really debatable as it is indeed fact.

ya who knows. A size reduction in burst would hurt a bit, but people running around on their spines/fires or any secondary with a damage aura are using an 8ft aura effectively. I personally find spin, fsc, and whirling sword (those are the ones I use regularily) to be ample in size.

If it allowed impale to not suck so bad I'd take the reduction in burst heh. Others probably wouldn't.

I am unaware of the teams you play in, but I'll harbor a guess I play in faster ones.

Two fireblasters alpha'ing with fireball as I jump in with spineburst often means I'm only hitting luts and bosses. If I lead with throw spines that is nice, but then spine burst activated with plenty of targets still up ends up only hitting the bosses because everything else is already dead by the time it goes off.

I've had much more success with my fire/sr as FSC hits before everything in the room is dead from my teammates so I'm usually the one killing off all the fodder and then I have tremendously more st damage to deal with the remaining bosses.

Solo'ing or in offensively weak teams I could see how the aoe of spines would get a chance to do wonders. Maybe with the new +con settings it will be better for me in teams as stuff won't die as easily.

Still doesn't change the fact that it is the only remaining weapon set with baked in draw times so every comment about "slowness" is accurate in that regard. Removing those pauses would probably make the set too good though, just look what it did to Kat and claws and spines would benefit even more due to extra aoe (though in tight packed spawns claws is right up there with spines for aoe, but a whole lot smoother and better st damage).

Anyway, getting the message loud and clear, you guys don't care that spines is "bugged" in a negative way because you think getting that bug fixed would also bring downward balancing to the set from another source. I don't blame you either, I dread Castle looking at things I enjoy.

take care.

Traps for MM's is a whole different beast. Some of the slotting options are...different.

But different is good so I hope they stay, or get added to the other traps users, but I imagine what will eventually happen. Hopefully it isn't until i29

I only have her DR calculator. Recharge is hit pretty hard. I think these numbers are accurate for everyone...maybe heh.
F-ing formatting, w/e it's readable.

I think that if you say had 68% rech slotting (ie thunderstrike set), hasten, and say 50% global rech then:
Blaze would normally recharge in 3.47 seconds.
but with DR it would recharge in 4.26 seconds.

Then again it might be split between two attributes and come out to something like 3.89 seconds. Or it may be DR'd way more than that, I'm not sure what actually happens really so I have very little confidence in what I just posted.

I know my pve perma dom isn't perma in pvp heh and on all my other toons hasten is down for a lot longer than it "should" be.

Maybe one of the 3 people in the game that understand how DR actually works, or have cared enough to figure it out will post.
*I'm assuming Castle actually knows how it works, Arcana, and one other dude out there must know it .