FourSpeed
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Posts
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Quote:You're very welcome, and I'm glad you (and others) have found it helpful.Originally Posted by MrNojI just wanted to say thanks to 4 for this wonderful guide.
On that note, I should be thanking you, and all the other folks who have
put this strategy to good use.
This guide originally started as a simple post in the market forum in response
to a whiner who contended it was too difficult to make inf in the game, and
even simple marketing was too hard and too time consuming...
When I see posts like yours, from people who's game experience is improved
as a result of having this knowledge, I'm happy that peterpeter suggested to me
to put it here as a guide. The research and effort to do that (which was quite a
bit more work than what actually using the method takes
) seems much more
worthwhile when I see comments like yours from folks it has helped.
So, Thanks! I'm glad I put it out here for players to benefit from...
Regards,
4 -
I'm in Grey Pilgrim's camp on this one.
I want the key target out of the fight immediately. If that means that
demoralize doesn't fire, nbd. I still have Placate in case I want to take
out the sapper and prevent the Gunslinger beside him from causing a
ruckus.
On teams, I expect the other guys to get involved.
Demoralize is handy when it works out, don't get me wrong. However, if
you're counting on it as a needed survival tool rather than a pleasant and
occasional bonus, I'd re-evaluate your tactics.
Regards,
4 -
lol - you're funny (clueless, but funny)... I like you...
PS> Regenerating Flesh was going for 111 (both sides) over the weekend.
Gratz on your "massive understanding" of the market... (yes, that's sarcasm"). -
I'm not sure about Elec/* as it has more AoE capability, but in general,
stalkers are Single Target focussed. That's not to say they can't handle
(some) crowds, but the design of Assassin's Strike and most of the other
attacks are to deal overwhelming damage to the intended victim. That's
really their forte.
That thinking sort of flies in the face of 0/8 difficulty settings, though.
I'd expect that most stalkers would have problems fighting on that setting.
Personally, I prefer +1 (or +2)/1 for my stalkers with the idea that they're
"precision weapons" intended to surgically/tactically take out the nastiest targets
and let other ("lesser") villains mop up the riff-raff...
Of course, mileage and playstyles vary, so feel free to do what's fun for you.
Regards,
4 -
Count me among the 5x aged crowd...
I don't have any familiarity with the Plato computer, but I did keypunch
cards for my programs on an IBM 1130, worked with an ARS-33 teletype,
and I still have a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model I in storage...
Cheers,
4 -
I too go the IO route.
The other point that I didn't see mentioned yet (hope I didn't miss it), is the
value of frankenslotted sets at L22 (L25 IO's).
An Acc/Dmg L25 set IO gives a 20% bonus to both accuracy and damage.
Grab an Acc/Dmg from a different set, and in two slots, you get 40% Acc
and 40% Damage enhancement -- This is better than you could do with +3 SO's
(1 Acc, 1 Dmg) in just two slots. Better yet, they *never* expire...
When you add in other slots you can typically get 60% Acc, 95% Dmg,
and 30+% in EndRed and/or RchRed (depending on what exactly you slot).
For me, that always trumps DO's and SO's, and I've long since stopped using
those at all...
Regards,
4 -
Quote:Well put - I couldn't have said it better myself.Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I have to say this is about as stupid as a baseball fan ripping on football at a football game complaining that the usual football fans think their comments are unwelcome and stupid.
Or I could counter with "shocking that the usual anti-market self-righteous prigs come in trolling the market forum."
@Soilent Green:
To add:
Don't be so sure that it's only the "usual suspects" that feel that wayQuote:Shocking that the usual suspects have an issue with what I said.
about your commentary. It's more like the rest of us simply prefer them
to put typed (and entertaining) words to those feelings.
Further:
Clearly you didn't even understand the title of the thread... If you had,Quote:This thread is just another in a long line of "my e-peen is bigger than yours" threads that are pretty much standard for this section of the forum.
you might have realized that the thread wasn't an e-peen brag, but
rather a lament that even if you have 1B inf, it doesn't buy what it used to.
So, I'll leave the humility and discretion portion of your diatribe for the
excellent commentary from dave_p et al, and simply close with this advice
to you.
"Reading comprehension ftw"
4 -
Quote:Shhhh....Originally Posted by Valorin
Leroy Jenkins = Lady Jane.
I duo with a friend of mine and we have a policy... If getting the rescuee
out safely isn't a make or break mission req, and the idiot is stupid enough
to attack something, we let 'em die...
Sure, it tarnishes the Boy Scout badge a bit, but hey, if the wingnut could
actually handle the situation, we wouldn't have needed to rescue her in
the first place...
That, and sometimes, it's downright hilarious watching the ensuing slaughter.
Cheers,
4
PS> The actual advice given is good... when the rescue *is* a req, we WAIT
for the ambushes to come to us and deal with them that way as well. -
Quote:Yep. Count me in that crowd.Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
As others mentioned, 1 Billion is a lot if you don't go for a top end IO build. I know of several friends and players who are completely uninterested in IO'ing their characters with the best of everything and they have way more influence than they can possibly spend. They would never spend 1 Billion since they do fine with just SOs or generics.
I've yet to slot a single purple and most of my builds come in under 100M
with frankenslotted sets (I don't bother with DO's or SO's at all).
A billion is easily enough to equip the next 1/2 dozen alts I'll eventually make.
The far bigger issue for me is mid-level availability rather than simple wealth...
Regards,
4 -
Quote:Like Big King mentioned, I'd advise some caution with that. You're making
Yeah. That answers my question. I'm wondering if I find say... a level 50 Luck of the Gambler Defense, and notice that there are zero people selling right now, and about 50 people bidding, and the price has been about 50 million for the last 5 sales, do I need to bother raising 2.5 million inf so I can post the recipe at 50 million, or can I list it at 5 inf, and be pretty sure it sells for at least 20 million?
I was worried that the low bidder would get it. Like maybe there'd be one bidder bidding 30 million, and another bidding 200 thousand, and I'd end up selling to the bidder who was trying to low ball me instead of the high bidder. This puts a lot of my fears to rest. I'm sure it was still wise of me to list at 50 million, in case the high bidder were bidding less than that, but it seems I would still have gotten a good bundle of inf either way.
a risky trade-off between selling quickly and sales price.
With none for sale, your item at 5 is pretty certain to sell right away, but
you have no idea what those 50 bids are at... Sure, there could be some at
50M, but it could also be a bunch of cheapskates bidding at 10,000 and
hoping to score a bargain.
My personal rule of thumb is to list it for the minimum I'd be satisfied with
getting for it... You want it to sell quickly, but you don't want to get hosed
by a lowball group of bidders. Of course, the flip-side is also true - If you
list for a high price, to get the most you can from it, there's a decent
chance that it could sit awhile, or even be overpriced and not sell at all
(or force you to re-list eventually, losing those fees).
It's always a trade-off.
So, list for what you would settle for, if it sold at your list price (I'm betting
you'd have been *really* unhappy if your LotG sold for 5). Typically, for me,
that's somewhere between 20% and 70% of last-5 sales (depending on the
item, of course, and how the niche is actually behaving).
Regards,
4
PS> Also note that you should never list at 5 or less. The minimum list fee
is 5, so if it sells for the price you listed at, you made 0, or even lost inf
on the deal - ie. you might as well just use the "delete" key instead...
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Nice - QuadraGratz!
4 -
I'd guess you're seeing the "equip" phase from the recent 2XP weekend
as players are buying new and improved shinies for their newly levelled toons.
I'd further guess we have another week or so of that until things start to settle
back into "normal" (whatever that is) again.
A good time to sell, indeed.
Regards,
4 -
I went with Blinding Powder and so far (in PvE with just the base slot) it's
kind of amusing...
I've got bids out for the Coercive Persuasion set IOs, but haven't had much
luck getting any so far (not many for sale, it seems).
In the interim, I'm putting in Malaise's set (which has similar bonuses), but it
does raise a question. I think I know what the answer is, but would like
confirmation whether I have it right or not.
Malaise's includes a Chance for Damage proc (Psionic) in it.
I assume, if that proc actually fires/hits that it will:
A: Break Hide
B: Negate the Sleep of the power
Obviously, both of those would be large drawbacks for that particular IO
in that power...
Can anyone confirm whether that is the actual behaviour?
Thanks in Advance,
4 -
Quote:You might also want to check the filter settings and whether you haveOriginally Posted by Tocharon
is there something with the redside market? i know its always been more unhealthy than the blueside one but there is nothing on sell there except for quickfoots and unquestioning loyalities when I logged on this morning
anything typed in the search box.
4 -
Quote:Maybe I'm not reading this right or understanding exactly what you mean.Originally Posted by Beserker_NASo, basically, if there are like 50 bidders, and the price has been consistently high
for a while, I don't need to post my recipe at a high price in order to avoid getting undercut
by some guy who's put in a bid of 5? That's good to know. I've always been worried that the high bidder would get passed over, some how.
"Price", ie. the Last 5 sales, isn't necessarily what the item costs. It was
the amount that a person who bought one "paid" at that time.
In the blind market, you don't *know* what list price actually is. Depending
on the timing, in my first example, you might have been able to get one for
5 inf, and, you'd have absolutely been guaranteed one if you paid 10,000.
The guy that bought one at 50,000 clearly overpaid (at that point in time)
as did the guy who paid 25,000 for the next one. We can see that none of
the items listed were that expensive.
However, buyer #3 (who hasn't come along yet in my example) may well
think that somewhere between 25,000 and 50,000 is the "normal" price
if he only looks at the last 5 even though (in this case), he could actually
buy one for 500, and buyer #4 won't get one for less than 10,000 without
someone listing another one for less than that amount.
The point on the last 5 is this: It is NOT telling you what the items are
listed at. It IS ONLY telling you what the last 5 people who bought one PAID
for them... For all we know, they might have been listed at 1 inf, but what
was paid was what shows in the last 5.
That's a fine (but important) distinction to understand clearly.
In terms of "undercutting", the guy who lists his item for less than you list
yours will always sell his before you do.
The guy who bids more than you do will always buy his before you buy yours
(assuming an item is for sale at a price equal or lower to your bid).
Finally, keep in mind the bids/lists are changing all the time in real time,
so the only constant rule is: The Highest Bid buys the Cheapest Listed Item
as long as Bid Price >= Listed Price.
Regards,
4 -
Quote:No, it isn't "proof enough" - In fact, it's not only not proof, it's not evenOriginally Posted by orangemonkey'Playing' the market is what gets things like like regenerating flesh
selling for one+ million. Is this not proof enough?
supporting evidence.
"Playing the market" is not what is driving prices up on something like
Regenerating Flesh.
We just had a 2XP weekend - it boosted the XP levels and influence holdings
of a bunch of toons in a very short time.
RF is used in several high level recipes (see P-Wiki), some of which are quite
desirable (Crushing Impact, Doctored Wounds, Blessing of the Zephyr to
name just a few).
What do you suppose happens to price when a bunch of newly levelled
toons, with inf to spend, start trying to buy/craft shinies that all use RF,
all within roughly the same timeframe? It's called shortage. More people
want an item than there are available. The next step is inevitable then.
Tada - price rise... no "playing the market" involved... Just normal folks
trying to put nice IO's into the toons they worked on over 2XP, and trying
to grab more Regenerating Flesh salvage than is being put on the market...
Watch the price of RF over the next couple weeks - it is quite unlikely to
stay at those prices long.
This is even easier to answer than the prior question.Quote:Originally Posted by orangemonkeyHow does buying up all the L50 IOs NOT effect the game? You're
taking an item out of circulation. It's not hard to understand. I know you
all can't be this stupid.
You *can't*. It is IMPOSSIBLE to buy up all the L50 Common Recipes.
Period.
Crafting tables *always* sell them - they are a "store" purchasable item,
in exactly the way SO's are from contacts and stores. Invention Tables
always sell them. There is an infinite supply at a fixed price.
The common IO recipes listed on the market are excess throw-a-ways...
So, your idea of common IO recipes being removed from circulation is,
plain and simple - wrong. It's not possible to do that.
Either you're unaware of that simple fact, or you're confusing common IO
recipes with Set recipes... Only common IO's are used in this strategy.
Regards,
4 -
@Orangemonkey
You have made the following statements.
Quote:You sound like a thief wallstreet banker. That's right keep justifying
what you're doing - It will help you get to sleep at night.I, for one, would welcome and happily discuss any intelligent (or at least,Quote:This is the reason why the CoH market is messed up and oddly
enough it's one of the reasons why the RL market is messed up. Should I
be laughing or crying about this?
sincere) questions you might have about this strategy.
Unfortunately, you couldn't be bothered to actually answer the direct question
I asked you earlier, and all I'm seeing here is completely uninformed, trollish vitriol...
So, with your "tilting at windmills" commentary firmly in mind, I can answer
the one question you actually did ask.
Yes, you should be crying about this.
The woeful lack of understanding about the market you show leaves little
other viable choice, given the apparent absence on your part of any willingness
to learn.
Regards,
4 -
Quote:Thank You.Originally Posted by HeroeMan
Great guide, by the way. I just don't understand how the market determines who gets what all the time.
As for your question, it's fairly simple, although it isn't intuitive. Bascially,
what happens there is that the highest bid buys the lowest listed item
(assuming, of course, that the bid is higher than that listed price). In terms
of time, the markets can (and do) lag, as can the game client, so there
may possibly be some "gray" areas where goofiness can occur, but taking
lag out (ie. instant transactions), here's how it actually works.
For example:
We have 4 recipes for sale at these prices (note, in the game, you cannotCode:Widget IO recipe Listed: 4 Bids: 0 Last 5 ---------------------------------------------- 1> 500 No History 2> 5 3> 10000 4> 500
see what those prices are)...
You come in with a bid of 1 inf... That bid isn't higher than any listed prices,
so no sale for you... The bid is logged and queued and that's it.
The next person comes along, and they bid 50,000. That's definitely high
enough to buy one, but which one? The one they get is #2, because it is
the one currently listed for the lowest price. The Last 5 sale price history
is updated to show that 50,000 is the most recent price that bought
one of the recipes, and the bid and list counts are also updated.
Then another person comes along and bids 25,000. Like the prior guy,
that will buy one, also. In this case, though, there are 2 at the same low
price (500), and he'll get one of them. In that case, we don't know exactly
which one (it's based on a pseudo-random number algorithm). So, for the
sake of discussion in that case, we'll assume the random buy was #4 (we
know it *isn't* first-in, first-out from peterpeter's testing some time ago).
At the end of the this process, the market info now looks like this:
Once again, what you see in the interface is: 1 bid, 2 listed and the last 5Code:Widget IO recipe Listed: 2 Bids: 1 Last 5 ---------------------------------------------- 1> 500 1 50,000 2> 10000 25,000
sales history. This matching of bids and lists continues on as activity for
this niche proceeds, according to the same rules we just layed out here.
Barring lag-caused weirdness, this is how it matches and handles sales.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
4 -
Quote:Why?Originally Posted by ConFlict
blinding powder.
What puts this power ahead of the other two in your mind?
I'd guess (wrongly perhaps) that the sleep wouldn't be much more effective
than the Shark hold.
The -perception is nice, but on a capped stealth build, it's not too much
of a problem already.
Is the confuse all that helpful given only a 50% chance to invoke that effect
(although I admit it would be Big Fun on /Dev blasters)?
I'm genuinely curious to know your rationale for this pick.
Regards,
4 -
Quote:Well, given the lack of response to a direct question, I think it's safe to
Likely it's a nasty little four-letter word associated with the color green
infer the word troll, at least...
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I've been mulling this one for awhile, so the opinions of some PvP Stalkers
would be helpful.
The 3 powers I'm debating are:
Shark Jaws (the hold -- "Trow Sharks" is already in there)
Hibernoob (it already has Phase, will this add much?)
Blinding Powder (is this even useful in PvP?)
I posted here rather than in the Stalker forum because I'm only
interested in the PvP value of these powers.
So, PvP stalkers out there, what are your experiences with these 3
and how would you rank them in terms of PvP usefulness? Also, what
slotting would you recommend for your top pick here?
Thanks in Advance,
4 -
Quote:Yep - My first thought was on the Blimp too... "Mile High Club"Originally Posted by Ironblade
I would put an exploration badge on a moving object - specifically the blimp in Atlas Park.
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Some interestng opinions and approaches here.
So, for giggles, I'll toss my current approach into the mix along with a few
disclaimers to help give some perspective to my playstyle.
1. I'm a solo player almost exclusively. In general, that means I level more
slowly than most, but I'm definitely not a "casual player"... On the 3 main
servers I play on, I have small bases geared for storage and crafting.
2. L50 is usually retirement age (or at least, play it rarely) for my toons.
The "journey" of playing the alt from scratch, and seeing how it evolves
along the way is the interesting part for me.
3. All my toons are well-funded (see guide in sig) and self-sufficient. For
all but the premier IO's (most of which I don't use), cost isn't a problem
for any of them.
Given those disclaimers, my newbie alts typically progress similarily from there.
At L7 they slot common L10 IO's, and at L12 they slot L15 commons.
They're cheap enough, and quite simply, their performance benefit is
*well above* corresponding TO's and DO's.
At L17, I'll pop in L20 common IO's on a case-by-case basis as new slots
are added, or if I feel a power needs a bit of a boost.
Also, during this timeframe, I have put together a basic Mid's build for the
toon, and I have a pretty good idea of the sets I'd like to put in. Armed
with that info, I go ahead and start placing bids for L25-L28 set IO's based
on the Mid's plan - I may substitute depending on what is actually available,
but starting 5 to 10 levels early gives me plenty of time to get what I want.
At L22, I begin slotting the set IO's I've been purchasing. I'm probably the
poster child for frankenslotting, and those sets are picked to give bonuses
in all the PvP zones (where I like to dabble from time to time). I cannot
recall the last time I put an SO in a build - L25 sets outperform SO's.
Once slotted, those powers are done... I don't look at 'em or think about
em again.
Powers taken above level L35 (ie. post Siren's Call) typically get frankenslotted
with L35-L40 sets...
None of my toons use any SO's, or Purple IO's or PvPIO's. In fact, I think
only a couple of them have IO's higher than L40's slotted.
I do have a handful of special IO's that I slot: Everyone gets a Kismet Acc.
Most of them get a Karma or Steadfast -KB. Squishies typically get a Stealth IO,
and any of the toons I make for PvP also get a Reticle for perception.
Any others are on a toon-by-toon basis depending on what I want them
to accomplish, so I have the odd LotG or Numina or Performance Shifter
in certain toons.
...and there you have it....
My builds typically run 25M-75M in total cost. Their performance is well above
SO builds, and typically about 80-85% of premium builds which is plenty
good enough for me.
Regards,
4 -
Quote:On what evidence or logic, exactly, do you base this comment on?Originally Posted by orangemonkey
This is the reason why the CoH market is messed up...
In actual observation, this strategy has minimal (if any) effect on the market.
Since common IO recipes are available from a "store" (ie. crafting table)
in addition to the market, there can never be a true shortage of the recipes
for people that actually want to have the shinies. Further, the fixed table price
also ensures that market prices are reasonably stable at all times, which
they have been since I first published this guide back in 2008.
Too rare? Buy one from the table. Too expensive? Buy one from the table.
Common IO's (especially L50 ones) are essentially a surplus good in terms of
their market behaviour.
So, I re-iterate: What is the basis for your comment?
Regards,
4 -
I frankenslot mine, but I'm with the crowd on this one.
Soft-capped acc against the target, and then as much dmg / rch
as will fit is the approach I recommend.
It's a nuke - its job is to make everyone in front of me die....
Regards,
4