Flints
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Posts
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Joined
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Are you using Mids?
The "test 11" seems to yield better results from what I'm viewing.
But with the revamp to Frozen Aura and Freezing Touch there's not a whole lot of issues with Ice Meeele (GIS still sucks for DPA but I doubt that'll ever be fixed)
Soul Mastery is best if you want to maximise defense, otherwise its Ice or Fire for damage. -
Quote:None, in fact you can keep CJ, I made an error in my part because I saw that they were at the cap of power pools so I had to drop one of them to see how the added +global rech would work.Originally Posted by Finduilas
What's the rationale behind this?
I did forget that with Fitness being Inherent, there's no issue in the build for being at the power pool cap.
EDIT:
And the reason I wouldn't take APP/PPPs in i19 is because the build looks slot starved for them already, aside from taking body mastery, leaving them unslotted (putting the Miracle +recovery in physical perfection. a Rech in Conserve Power and End Redux in Focused Acc, which I would only use when against CoT and in the CoP's Storm AV due to the end cost) you could take the 3 Concealment powers and mule them to cap the rule of 5 on the global +rech IOs. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Flarstux
that had been working just fine until the afore-mentioned Tip mission with Carnies (also had some trouble with Malta in one of those new ambush upon ambush upon ambush upon ambush deals).
Getting back to the merits, I was considering using them to slot one attack with Kinetic Combat, or maybe picking up the Miracle +Recovery unique and a couple of other IOs, but it seems like doing the random roll thing with Hero merits might be the way to go, selling what I can't use to finance the rest of the build.
its worth adding the healing procs into Health, just the Numina's and Regentive Tissue have the almost same effect as Health unslotted. I tend to 3 slot Numina for the additional 12% (which is the 2slot bonus but 3 adds more health)
If you're unable to move slots about, change your current Health slotting for 1 generic heal IO and the Numina Heal and Numina Regen/Recover proc.
That itself will give you 105% regen.
I'd advise taking the 3 concealment powers with i19's launch and not using them, at the cost of dropping Combat Jumping.
You could run Stealth if you don't mind the animation, that'll almost be the same as CJ and due to Inherent Fitness having Swift you'll be at the same movement speed you are now.
Taunt's overslotted for my tastes (But some people do like the set bonuses) and the KD prot in grounded isn't needed as you already have protection against mag 15.
You could drop Taunt to 4 slots, use the Mocking set and ED cap Health and add the procs to it.
That way with the LotG rechs in the concealment pools, you should be perma-hasten'd and perma-energized at the cost of only 1% S/L def.
You'd also have a power left over, so you could take SS, slot a stealth-proc into it and use SS and Invisibility to stealth missions.
EDIT:
That Malta tip mission is meant to be difficult imho, I (accidently) ran it at +2/*8 in a full team and was probably the most fun my team and I had all day.
Here's the changes I'd personally make.
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Well done Union, shame I couldn't be there to see Ol' Stormy go down, but I was asleep at the time
So turtling up similiar to MSR's pit of magnus death is the key here, lets do this more until (and beyond) the point where red and purple AVs are to the point where we can just say "Red tactics." "Purple tactics." and be done.
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Sadly red attempts 1, 1.5 (instance bug) and 2 weren't successful.
However a big thank you for everyone who attended, and the previously mentioned Host and other team leaders.
Things weren't quite as smooth in that run, while the pillars went down fine (Unions got stage 1 down to second nature now.) the purple AV is still causing problems, Soul suggested and Champions "No shivan/HVAS purple win." data makes note that the ranged ATs staying together for buffs such as Fulcrum is vital.
I didn't manage to get my power analyser off on the AV as its range is inside the KD hurricane, so I couldn't keep an eye on how we were doing for regen sadly, we may need to work on that and a repeat of the successful system of calling at the roughly 30 sec point to cast all -regens.
Not having the ranged teams in range to use the Dagger temps also might be a problem there, however I did see the most HVAS and Shivans I've seen since the first attempt where the majority of players had nukes prepared also.
The AV's half was hovering around the 80% mark on each attack wave however, and if the regen issue was solved we could have got him down in 10 or so minutes.
A list of my team-mates except one person who had to leave after the first attempt, apologies to them as I didn't get their name.
Ejekutiva
MiniGremlin (@NightShade)
Solvent Abuse (@Soul Storm)
Prototype 101 (@Prototype)
Sniper
Radical Illusion (@Chappers)
Ultima -
1. Ice/Ice Tanker. (Me)
2. Stone/Elec Tanker.
3. KM/NRG Brute.
4. Cold/Rad Defender.
5. Dark/Traps Corruptor.
6. Elec/Psi Dominator.
7. Bots/Poison Mastermind.
8. Ice/Kin Corruptor.
The reason? AoE shutdowns via End drain, slows and -rech.
Most of the Support classes are pretty offensive, although there's little in the place of team buffs, the Meele classes are tough ones so the whole team can focus on debuffing and sweeping fast through the mobs. -
Quote:You should look how you're playing other classes, my pre-20 Ice tanker suffered greatly in Praet teams because I took my aggro aura far too early, and not only did I not have the End to support it, but I didn't have the defense to cope with it, before your tanker becomes balanced in the sense that its def/res and end are all working well together, you'll flatline most of the time.Originally Posted by Party_Kake
no no no.
My tanker can handle x7 missions and it's a breeze.
All my other characters have trouble at x1 solo with enemies set to -1!
Although it helps being showered with inspirations.
I tried a inv/ss brute, and he is nowhere near as invincible! of course he's not anywhere near the same level, perhaps he'll improve too.
Thing is, when I see other tankers in my group they seem to have very few aoe abilities. why is that? why would you play a tanker that way? which tankers get aoe?
Now the same tanker is 30, I've got all my armour powers and my secondary AoE, I can dish out and ake a lot more damage than I could 10 levels ago.
If I remember correctly, I believe all Tanker secondaries have at least 1 aoe, and some primaries provide pbaoe toggles as well (ice, fire, elec & dark) I had to take the ice APP on my main (Ice/Ice) to have two clickable AoEs while farming.
But it seems you're trying to play other ATs like tanks (Which is what I meant in that quote) A controller/Domi and in some cases a Defender work by getting outside of meele range (either by hold/immob or using Hover) to survive, my Rad/Son defender, while incredible in teams, has only really come to his own solo now that he's 50 and got the Patron pools (Uses web grenade and sirens call (aoe sleep) before picking off targets).
Even though I'm a tanker, and this is the tanker forum, a suggestion would be to play a corruptor (or blaster) for the first 20 levels in a team, the reason I say a corruptor is because you'll quickly see the difference in how "tough" ATs play (Tankers, Scrappers, MMs, Brutes.) and how "squishes" play, while experiencing what a support class brings to a team. -
Quote:Thats what we did on the second run Sunday, it doesn't seem that difficult to knock it down to 0 in one go.Originally Posted by Ideon
Still, if all the towers are equal in life and resistance, rather than try slowly reducing the HP of the tower down, it might be feasible to just knock it straight down from 100 health if all three teams are powerful enough... hrm.
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Quote:Tankers are made of awesome, so no.Originally Posted by Party_Kake
So I want to know. Is it possible for any other class to approach the awesomeness of this character?
If you mean to ask "Can other ATs solo at high rep and compete at the same level as Tankers?"
Yes, depending on what level this is happening, what enemy groups you're facing, etc etc.
If you ran an unslotted defence-based Tanker through a 0/*8 Bobcat map and compared that to say a Dominator, Controller or Mastermind doing the same map and rep, with the defense debuffs of Bobcats the Tanker will probably be doing worse than the other ATs. However if you were say a Fire/SS tanker and you're going up against Infernal's Demons, and compared that to a fire/fire blaster, the tanker would perform better due to being able to resist the inferal's fire-based attacks, while the blaster is having their attacks resisted.
The "WAI class imbalance" is purely situational and designed that to be that way, can a fire/kin troller stand in the middle of a 4/*8 no bosses spawn at the aggro cap and be able to go afk to use the toilet and still be alive when they return? Probably not, but they sure can kill faster.
It seems you like Tankers, and there's nothing wrong with that, but don't start complaining when you're level 20 defender jumps in the middle of a spawn on *8 solo and gets destroyed.
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Quote:Simple, don't respec it in.Originally Posted by Seyshara
My Tanker (and in fact all my characters except the two Kheldians) would be screwed with this. I only took Hurdle and Hand Clap because there wasn't ANYTHING in any of the other pools that fit my original concept. (Technically, the Super Speed doesn't really fit either, but I like being able to get around) Fortunately, most of them already have Stamina, and I don't intend to respec any time soon anyway. One or two had Hurdle planned (for the same reason as my Tanker) which might cause problems, but I can probably adapt.
I guess I'm going to have to rush my Praetorians to level 20 and pick up Stamina before i19, in case the new pools don't suit them.
(As an aside, none of my characters has more than the initial slot in any fitness powers, so that means I would have absolutely no slots spare for any other power I might decide to take) -
Quote:I'm there! Hiding, but I'm there!Originally Posted by Soul Storm
Below is the group pic for second successful raid...
Looking at the stats we did have him hit the -regen cap of 0hp/sec a few times, without him being that low (on the attacks we didn't floor it) we were simply out of time with his regen, once we had gotten the hang of it, the mobs went down at a good speed and he was lowered to 0hp/sec in two attack phases, having him drop completely.
Discussing with Soul at the moment, the best attempt at the big ol' purple is to hit him with enough holds for 50 mag, we'll have to run some tests and we'll definately need a few Domis for that to try and smooth out the issue with having too much debuffers/buffers.
Another idea I'm suggesting (as stats seem to say he has 0 immob resistance) would be to pull him against the wall, have him immob'd before the shields come up so the slow effect and the -tohit doesn't prevent us from killing the mobs. -
We're currently discussing a redside CoP attempt on Sunday, although depending how many people we can get pencilled in we may be moving the date to in the week (This Tuesday is the Tanker Tuesday EU, Wednesday being MSR, so it might even be a Thursday attempt again if people need a week to get organised/bring toons across.)
I'll be taking one team in on my red defender, I know @Pillbug said he'd be willing to supply the base, I'll be talking to him Friday to see if we can get everything sorted out.
Might have to squeeze a MSR Saturday for HVAS, but I don't really see that being a problem for Union
EDIT:
Canine, I was more impressed at that teams power, and by the looks of things the triple-spawn seemed to be some sort of bug, but I guess we won't know untill we try again. -
I don't know the exact chance, although I've found it happens more often than not.
One thing I will say about the power though, is that if it kills the target, or the target dies at the same time as Chain Induction hits, it will not jump to a new target. -
Quote:Also this was the team that destroyed a pillar before the shield could come back up.Originally Posted by Soul Storm
Team 1
1 - Polyphony (@Soul Storm) (Sonic debuff)
2 - Kassroll (tank)
3 - Ejecutora dark (-regen debuff)
4 - Pirea (debuff troller)
5 - Piromana (kinetics)
6 - Li sensei (scrapper)
7 - -Lady Arrowhead (blaster)
8 - Fortunata Kulenkov (-regen/dmg)
So there's probably some high resistance on the pillars that could be debuffed as well a requirement for AoE to bring shields down. -
Quote:I'll be back, since being in that Hamidon Tank team, I really want to give that Aspect a reason to hate me, and all the toys and trouble we bring along.Originally Posted by TsumijuZero
I am sad to report however that flints got disconnected at the vital moment and an effort to reinvite went with the error " @Flints does not exist, is hidden, or is not online at the moment."
Gutted about that given all your effort, however all the more reason to kick that fat cheap broken AV's backside AGAIN!
I got the reward though, I've also gotten more knowledge and data on tanking the pillar mobs, most notable is that there is a specific sound that the cube makes before the first mob spawns below it, seems to be about a half-second delay, the sound is made when the first mob is formed, but it doesn't become active/aggressive for about a second. (And from what I've seen, the first mob to spawn is always an eyeball.)
It's also worth pointing out that if you keep aggro and stay in a tight ball under it when the detention field hits, you're immune to all damage and unable to attack, but you'll maintain aggro until the last tick wears off (about 13/14 seconds for Ice, although I believe its close to 2 seconds for willpower) I didn't have any breakfrees and it seems that I was unable to be targeted for Clear Mind, so Tanks should carry a stack of them and save some for the second phase, as wisps exist there also and could cause a wipe.
From whats been seen/said, it seems that HVAS and Shivans work well on the Red AV (I did see a dead snowman though) so unless they don't change the purple AV, we'll need to gather some data on how to take that one down. -
Quote:Isn't resistance to status effects (And I'm assuming -regen) a lower duration rather than a lower effect?Originally Posted by Electronuts
Dont forget AVs have 85% resistance to -regen (http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Archvillain_Resistance) so applying 2000% -regen, only reduces actual regen by about 300%.
So applying 2000% -regen for 10 secs with 85% resistance would have the -regen last for somewhere around 6.2 secs at 2000% instead of 1150% for 10 secs.
Remembering that 100% resistance/debuff is actually only 1/2th -
+2/*8 on my 50 farmer Ice/Ice.
+0/*4 during leveling after farming,
Or the stand -1/*0 for rushing tip missions. -
Couldn't seem to find a thread on this topic, but I'll try to keep it brief.
if I stuck a Chance of Psi Damage proc into Kinetic Meele's Power Siphon power, or a Chance of Build Up proc into it, considering it's a self-buff but takes taunt and ToHit IO sets, and is boosted/powered by Kinetic Meele attacks, is the taunt effect adding to the attacks, and if so, is the taunt proc hitting on each attack?
And with the chance to build up, if it works as above, would it test for each Kinetic Meele attack used while under effect of Power Siphon? Would it test for all 10 hits in Burst? Or is it just going to check/roll when I hit the power? -
Quote:My mistake, will correct my post (Forgot that I delayed Glacial and Icicles 'till after EA so I wasn't wasting end.)Originally Posted by Finduilas
Ice Armor gets its E/NE defense in Glacial Armor, which is available at level 18, not level 30. And IME, Ice is fine for soloing as well as grouping, especially once you hit 26 and have EA to help with any endurance problems.
And yeah, I'm not saying getting Meele def on an Ice/ is wise or affordable. -
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=119258
Although the guide is pretty outdated, its a cheap build if you only pay attention to the Ice Armour side of things, although you'll have to bring up a lot of money if you wanted to perfect its defenses, regen and the damage output of /SS -
Its worth noting that I'm seeing more and more Ice/ tankers show up in places since GR launched, pre-GR most people ignored Ice Armour due to other primaries believed to perform better, but since Ice/ is a Tanker-only set, a lot of players seem to be trying them out.
Ice Tanking isn't like invul in the sense you could just walk up to Recluse and start wailing on him, you have gaps in Ice, for one theres no Meele Def toggle in the set, so you'll have to push it to get S/L/M to capped, then you have to decide whether you want to cap without EA and use EA for acc/rech/end mods, or with full EA, and using EA for acc/def.
There also seems to be a lot of energy damage in praet, so Ice looks good on paper but doesn't get defence against energy untill 18, so if Incarnate TFs are looking like praet is looking, Ice/ may be performing better there.
You have to be aware that Ice/ is more of a group tanker, you'll herd great and be wailed on at the aggro cap, but if you wanna take on an AV you've gotta be prepared. -
Quote:Frozen Aura is actually on par with Foot Stomp in damage, SS pushes it higher with Rage, but Ice Meele offers Ice Patch for more migitation, /SS you'll dish out more damage, /Ice you'll live longer.Originally Posted by HiddenJackal
I can't decide what secondary to pair with ice. I was thinking either SS, or fire. While SS of course has great damage with footstomp, fire has some great aoe and single target damage. I don't think I'll need to worry about the mitigation of footstomp with what fire has to offer either.
I'm tempted by Ice/Elec (but instead I rolled Stone/ instead of Ice/ as I've already got 2 Ice/ tankers.) purely for teleporting in with Lighting Rod, and combining EA and Thunder Strike for mitigation that way.
Ice Armour itself has a good strong End Drain in Energy Absorption, Ice/Elec would syngerise for end drain, while Ice/KM would synergise for -dmg debuffs.
Ice/Ice syngersies for concepts and -recharge.
Ice/Fire offers two PBAoE DoTs, and one PBAoE, things like Ice/Fire, Fire/Ice and Fire/SS generally make good farming tanks.
Out of Ice/Fire or Ice/SS, I'd personally go for Ice/Fire as it looks better and dishes out better AoE damage, if you're going Ice/SS you might end up investing a lot to get Rage working for you and soft-capping without relying on a full 10 EA proc (If you're going maintank against AVs like recluse.) -
With taking Recall/TP/Hasten, I might simply drop the 4-IOs in Stamina to 2 generic IO slots, lose the slot bonus but be able to 3-slot Hasten as a result.
That way, the increased DPS and increased End recovery is going to outweigh the loss of the set bonuses. -
I find that most (if not all) tank players generally develop their own style (probably happens on other ATs as well but its imo more noticable on tanks) Once you're understanding the general ideas and tips of Tanking, you'll be off in your own swing of things.
Don't be afraid to make adjustments to how you play though, I often find that I'm tweaking my mentallity depending on what powersets I'm using, my Ice/Ice tends to just stand in the middle and dish out damage, my Ice/KM does similar things but always has a wall or other object nearby for the high-mag KD throw, I found on my Elec/Elec that I pull the groups tighter, with more control due the small size of Elec Meele's cone.
Every tanker is different, and every player behind them is different also, it comes down to finding the tank to suit you, or finding a way for a tanker to be fun for you. -
Quote:If I'm 5 slotting with End in mind, I normally just 4 slot Erad and drop in a generic, yeah I'm wasting the slot bonuses of going 3/2 but I'm getting the 4th bonus and generic end redux does more reduction than a dual-effect IO, allowing me to focus my IO choices more towards Acc/dmg/rechOriginally Posted by Finduilas
Agreed. Slotting 4 Eradication is a good idea if you have the slots to devote 6 to an attack. If you only have 5 slots, it's difficult to get sufficient end reduction with just one slot from another IO set.
Assuming 5 slots, I usually use Eradication Damage, Dam/Rchg, Acc/Dam/Rchg, plus Scirocco's Dervish DamEnd, Acc/Dam/End. That ends up overslotting for damage, so using the Erad Acc/Dam/Rchg/End instead of the Dam/Rchg IO works too, if you don't mind paying big bucks for the Erad quad.
