Fanservice
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Posts
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The first to die off?
Red Hood and Catwoman are fairly obvious picks, they're kind of an embarrassing point for DC now and I doubt they'll improve as time goes on. They're also both just bad comics in themselves.
Hawkman will die off because it's Hawkman and it is always, always terrible.
Hawk and Dove probably won't last long, the story is okay but... well who really cares about Hawk and Dove? Especially when Liefield is drawing for it.
Red Lanterns doesn't have much legs to it, it's a one note comic really and without the kitty I doubt it'd be even vaguely entertaining.
Grifter and Voodoo are going to have to really pull off something special to keep going. They're not characters people care about and they haven't exactly done a good job of changing that yet.
I'd put a bet on Grifter being the first to go if one is going. -
If you're being deliberately obtuse then I'll agree, these comics will never make sense to you. This isn't really the comics fault though.
So far I've read a few comics in the relaunch I've never even considered touching before and been following them fine. Animal Man for example clearly has a lot of history behind it, but that didn't impede me getting into the latest one at all. -
Actually Flashpoint set up that this new Universe is a reboot.
Not in a very exciting way, but it did. -
Quote:Well the sensible thing to do would be to assume his history is different wouldn't it?Originally Posted by Durakken
canon isn't just what is written in the comics, but also what is officially stated as such. Tim Drake is a perfect example because his history should be relatively unscathed by everything said but as we see he's completely destroyed by it. -
Quote:Unless they invent a different reason. Which they probably will!Originally Posted by Durakken
For example, with Tim Drake.
Assuming all the changes Tim Drake should have stopped being Robin and then never came back and his parents should still be alive... Erasing every title he appears in after just before War Games...
Likewise without the Crisis you don't have 52, without 52 you don't have Jason picking up the Red Robin suit, without that you can't have Tim picking it up even if he came back to being Robin for a different reason. -
Quote:You start by accepting what it's saying. There's been four robins in five years. How long did each last? We don't know yet, but I imagine it'll come up in time. Five years is a pretty long time, one year for each (And a year for Bruce to find his feet) is still long enough for them to have seriously given it a good go.Originally Posted by Dark One
Then it's not a "fresh start" is it? If you are keeping cherry-picked parts of the last 20-30 years, but forgetting that some of those parts simply don't work without the other bits, then it's not exactly conducive to making people not go, "Huh?".
Mention the names Batman and Robin. What do people, even those who don't read comics, think? Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson. They are ingrained in the popular consciousness. Who is Robin now? Tim Drake? Damian Psychopath? Weeble Bronlix? Oh, there's been four different Robins in five years? Bruce must go through 'em like candy. It's not how you start off a "fresh start".
How do past events work considering all the changes? Well we don't know that yet either, they've only been hinted at so new people know the score. They'll no doubt be explained in more detail as time goes by as well. -
Perhaps this is deliberately silly?
I guess we'll have to wait and see. You never know, it might be good. Batman Beyond sounded terrible on paper too. -
Quote:They're starting In Media Res though. Some comics show off the past a bit, like Action Comics. Some start off at the "Five years later" point the timeline is at now.Originally Posted by Dark One
Except that is the exact opposite of what they are doing.
They are resetting the timeline to zero, essentially. While at the same time keeping things that don't make sense in context. Like Jason Todd still being alive. Combined with the number of Robins and all the mishmash of other stuff like The Killing Joke still having happened, but jettisoning Steph Brown and Cassie Cain.
If you are going to start from zero, then start from zero. Start with Bruce just becoming Bats, Hal Jordan just getting the Ring, Clark just starting out, Diana just coming off of Paradise Island, etc. Don't try to confuse people by saying it's a "fresh" start, but keeping cherry-picked parts of history that don't make sense without other parts of history.
They'll no doubt do the origin stories eventually, as well as explain all the other things that don't fit the old world. Doing the origin stories for the first comic for all of them would have been boring because frankly everyone, new and old, pretty much knows how Batman and Superman came to be or who Robin is (Kinda)
You'll note the comics mainly getting origin stories are the ones who people just aren't familiar with.
Stephanie Brown may be yet to come (And good for her, because she deserved better), because the whole point of changing things is they're allowed to change things. Some events have gone away, some have stayed. It'll take a while to work out which, but for new people this isn't a problem.
Well unless they're reading Green Lantern. But that's tough luck there. -
Quote:What do you think the n in DCnU means?Originally Posted by Dark One
Lulz...
All those crisises over the last few years? Ya...they didn't happen.
Commence facepalming...
Edit - Crud...didn't even realize I was repeating Didio's words..
If they keep all the old stuff then it was rather pointless doing a reboot so new readers could jump on board. Of course it doesn't help that some writers aren't playing along and continuing on anyway. -
They needed 52 comics to remind people of 52, which was one of their best series to date. Some of the new 52 are clearly filling space and really don't need to be there at all.
Hawkman. Seriously. Who on earth reads Hawkman? -
Well I'd make a terrible comic.
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Quote:Wow, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say no it doesn't do that at all.Originally Posted by Durakken
There are a lot of subtle things in it that you are misinterpretting due to stereotypes or just being blinded by the whole sexualization thing which there is a lot... right down to the fact that the art indicates that the female agent smokes out of an oral fixation.
It's possible you're simply reading too much into this comic. Yes there's a few other things I could mention it hinted at, but really there's just not much to these characters at all. Voodoo is an alien who wants to learn about our race. Fine. And she's also.... oh actually that's it, we learn nothing else about her except she panics and kills stupid Agents who try to blackmail her while she's on top of them giving them a lapdance. When he KNOWS she can read minds and is just an alien taking human form.
It was dumb beyond belief.
The Female Agent outright said they were dating. I didn't mention it because he was kind of dead at the time, so it didn't really seem to matter. Admittedly it's a shift for the male partner to die leaving the female to get revenge, but eh.. he was too stupid to live anyway.
It didn't help that Voodoo has only two expressions. Vacant and Vacant with a slight smile. -
Quote:I do now. This could have been done without boring the ever loving crap out of me though. I'm not hating this comic because it's got strippers in it, I'm hating this comic because it's dull, so so dull. The dialogue is forgettable, we learn almost nothing about the characters we couldn't have worked out just by looking at them and the twist, while unexpected, completely fizzles out thanks to our main characters deadpan reactions following it.Originally Posted by ShoNuff
you do realize the Character's first origin story and current one is that she was a stripper before her "Call" happens right?
They could have made it interesting, they just didn't. So all it has going for it is the Fanservice. Of which it has A LOT. -
Quote:No, I'm turned off by the fact it's just a ton of Fanservice and no substance.Originally Posted by Durakken
Ummm no. Read the actual dialogue and such. If the characters are flat, that is on you and you having some sort of puritanical sensability. You are projecting you feelings about strippers and the writer/artist who would put strippers on near every page and not paying attention to what is actually going on.
The main character barely says anything during the entire comic. When she does it's to say she doesn't like talking about herself. She is interested in things and wishes to learn but doesn't really go into this. Exciting. The only thing concrete we learn about her we don't learn to the very end and while it does kind of explain why she's not very talkative, we still know pretty much nothing about her motivations by the very end.
The Female agent is your typical tough woman. She's turned off by men acting like idiots and beats up a few when they indulge this hatred. She's a bit lonely. That's all we find out about her.
The Male Agent leers a bit then does something stupid. That's all really.
And... well that's nearly everyone seemingly important. Her friends in the dressing room seem like normal people, which is fine, just not all that interesting.
That's it.
So am I still reading it wrong? -
Just got round to reading them.
Aquaman was brilliant, especially good at both setting up the character and addressing the whole "He talks to fish and is lame" thing in a genuinely funny way.
Voodoo was just tasteless. It spends most of the book in a strip club and I honestly couldn't have cared less about what was going on if it had tried to turn me off. The characters are flat and uninspiring, the story was slow to get going and the shameless fanservice was really, really shameless. Ugh.
Hawkman is and always will be terrible. Moving on.
I, Vampire wasn't terrible. It wasn't soppy romance and did show off some of the neater vampire powers as well as having a neat enough plot. But.... well it's Vampires. We're all a bit sick of vampires right? I honestly can't fault it as a story. If you like Vampires you'll probably like this. I don't, so I didn't.
Teen Titans looks like it might be good, but it's a bit of a slow start. Robin recruits Wonder Girl (Yay!) and really that's it. It sets up that the Teens are seen as a bit of a pest by the world and that there's yet another shadowy agency out to get people. Seriously there has to be a limit on the number of shadowy agencies are allowed.
I couldn't even finish Superman. I like Superman but this one was all text, text, text, text and I got sick of it. Sorry Supe's this one isn't for me. I liked your Action Comics though, so hey we're not breaking up entirely.
Blackhawks was great! It's a military team but with the goofy, action hero style moves that comics can get away with. I love that kind of thing and so this really hit the spot for me.
That's all I got so far! -
Quote:Hey! Fanservice Girl will sue for copyright infringement.Originally Posted by seebs
And all I thought when I saw the new Barbarian set was "I wonder whether the name Fanservice Lass is taken yet." (It wasn't.)
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Quality Varies Greatly.
Which should have been obvious really. Some of the comics are very good, some of them are atrociously bad and some are just dull. So no real change! -
Quote:The problem with the Catwoman comic isn't that she has sex, but the last four pages of it attempts to be a cliffhanger "Will Selina Kyle have sex with Batman?" (Hint: Yes)Originally Posted by Durakken
I actually think the problem people have with Catwoman is misplaced puritanical feelings because Catwoman and Batman WOULD do whats at the end of the issue and it introducing that aspect of the character to the reader. It's the one part of the comic where Catwoman acts like Catwoman. I think this is mainly puritanical ideas hitching on to the Starfire thing because none of the other problems with Catwoman's character is mentioned by comic readers... like caging cats, not inflicting wrath on those who blew up her place, and possibly killing someone in cold blood. All things outside of her character. Especially when you consider that in her book she has sex with Bats, that Detective guy, and his son with various levels of exposure.
As an introduction to the character, I expect the first issue to really set up what defines them. Seemingly what defines Catwoman is she gets to have weird sex with Batman, despite Batman not even appearing to want it all that much.
This is problematic on an awful lot of levels.
Also I am enjoying the reviews! Just in case you're wondering if anyone is actually watching them in this thread
I like how you end them with some nice shots from the books which a lot of reviews so far have left out, which seems crazy to me. The use of the mic has made the voice a lot cleaner as it's gone on and subatomiclaura seems a lot more confident and relaxed. Keep it up!
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Quote:My point, that you missed completely, is that our only difference is which bits of the game we consider "Wrong" to ignore as you have to ignore some bits of it for it to be even halfway sane.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
We accept this in an MMO in the same way we accept that the galactic empire did not spend trillions to surround the Death Star with special symphonic music transmitters. Its sometimes referred to as locally consistent storytelling, and its an example of the sorts of compromises you have to have between story telling and game mechanics in a shared gamespace.
Don't like it: don't play alts and don't team, and ignore all other players in the game.
You decided that when all Villains had to do the Breaking out of Jail mission (Ignoring the fact people can skip it) that anyone who roleplayed not coming from the Zig at some point were therefore "Wrong". While 'Locally consistent storytelling' means you're allowed to edit nearly every other thing just so we don't all end up sharing the same weird history.
The disconnect there is fairly obvious. You're being weirdly selective about which bits of 'canon' we're allowed to ignore. -
Quote:So every single Villain that could be role-played escaped from the same cell, got the same people their drugs/gadgets, saved Jenkins (Yes ALL of them) and then caught the same helicopter out of there. Later on nearly every single one of them would surprise Recluse by beating him in the future. The fact he continues to be surprised suggests he ain't all that bright.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
There are two different things being discussed here. The first are the limits that in-game canon impose, and those exist and are real. The second is the degree to which in-game canon should impose limits on players, and that's an entirely different issue. Where the two issues are linked, however, is in the fact that all true MMORPGs must make compromises in this area between meaningful canon and limiting canon. The more meaningful the canon, the more limits it by definition has to impose. The less limiting canon is designed to be, the more pointless it also tends to be. There are good ways and bad ways to balance the two, but there are no free lunches that get you everything you want on both sides of that equation, because no matter how brilliant and expansive the writing, ultimately you run into the fact that meaningful canon cannot be ambiguous or contradicted, and the inability to contradict unambiguous canon is the very definition of the limits of player roleplay.
Meanwhile nearly every hero has personally helped Penelope Yin undo the Chronomegatonicaboodle (I forgot it's name), defeated Frost-fire and saved Statesman from Praetoria. Multiple times.
After all, if everything we do in character is canon, this must all be true! It isn't silly to think this way at all! -
Then I enjoy playing this game wrong a lot.
Badwrongfun for the win! -
I liked Dean McArthur though! Yes you got tricked into doing it, but honestly I don't mind. I'd probably have done it anyway as Ajax reforming RI isn't exactly good for buisness and hey, my characters aren't perfect. Sometimes they get suckered.
By the end of the Villain story you've beaten up all your bosses and blackmailed the leader of the Rogue Islands into recognising you're awesome. Honestly I LIKE being an odd job man for people. I like running about helping Vernon Von Grunn get his mad scientist licence or helping Washington punch dissidents in the face. Being "My own man" is something that the morality missions and papers do and .. well they're not all that interesting. I guess there could be more "I've decided to do this" missions if people like those, but honestly I like having a contact with a personality helping me along.
Sure sometimes they're not very good arcs, but sometimes they're aces. -
I'm enjoying this thread for all the wrong reasons.
I am a horrible person
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Can anyone name even one MMO where this "Free Willed Character" is present?
Every MMO has you beating up on X, doing Y and rescuing Z regardless of who your character is or what their opinions of the world are.
If there was an MMO out there with enough content to allow me to go through the game without ever breaking my character's personality, something the Developers know nothing about, as well as having played a completely unique career to the person standing next to me then I would absolutely love that game. I just don't think it exists except in the minds of crazy people.
If you use the arcs as the literal representation of what your character has done then you run into the problem of every single character having pretty much the same career as you and if I need to point out why it's ridiculous to then say "But all of that was MY idea so it's fine!" then I might give up here.
Story arcs try to tell a story. They can't tell a personal story crafted to suit you because that's simply not possible. It can be a broad, story that leaves a lot of room to interpretation and personal choice but I find these deathly boring. I prefer a focused story with detail in it because I am the kind of person who loves things being explained. Some people prefer the former and more power to them, we have both kinds of arcs.
But asking for arcs that make everyone happy just isn't going to happen. They don't exist. -
Quote:They actually took away Wonder Woman's long pants again. Which is a shame because they were a good thing and now she's back to looking ridiculous.Originally Posted by Lothic
f they really wanted to do that they would have put her in long pants like Wonder Woman or at least come up with something that had a non-contrasting color that didn't draw your eyes to the exact places they're supposedly trying to make you stop looking.
