Evil_Legacy

666
suit yaself. here i dont bother with grammar as in who cares. i spend good deal of time paying attention to that stuff but here, who cares. at least i dont. if you do then ok. funny how all of a sudden you bring up grammar as if yours is always perfect, and usually people do that when they have nothing more valid to say. Do what you do but there is no emotions here if that is what you are fishing for. But since ya not reading this anyways, I guess at this time I can say anything about you but I wont. Just because I can manage to write more than two words or you cant hold attention more than two lines doesnt mean I should dumb down my stuff. If it's too much for you to read, then dont read it. Not like I would know the difference as I never once asked you to read it in the first place. You chose to, just as you chose to can choose not to read it just as easily. If you cant even control your own choices, then are you even a master of yourself? Or are you a slave to your own mind and fleeting thoughts? Either way, looks like grammar is the last thing you should be pointing out. Maybe you should choose more wisely. 666

becuase if that was abosolutely the case then this game would be no different from other MMORPG such as WoW and the likes. You state a valid point though I must say. And just because you spend 10 hours 100 hours and billions does not exactly make you uber all of a sudden. I've seen many people with uber builds on paper, and still get pwned by the casual player, some straight SOs. And then those people whine about it not being right that they spent countless hours on their toon only to get beat by a weekend casual pvper. And devs might advocate casual because not everyone is so black and white that seems to eb tossed aroudn sometimes. Either you're straight pvp or you should be straight pve, no middle. I dont think the devs wanted that. Which is simply ironic thinking since in order to have a pvp build anyways you must do some sort of pve anyways which in essence make a pvper actually a pveer but a pve person might not be a pvper at all. Like a square is a rectangle but a rectangle might not be a square.

That's one way of looking at it as seems like it worked wonders. So they come to the boards and whine, of course to make that "kitchen" a more comfortable spot. Which seems to be working very well from the looks of it.

And mac, I'm glad you dont throw salt but many of ya fellow pvpers do not refrain. and yes, many people do choose number 3, as it seems to get the best results, well somewhat in this case it seems.

If PVPers had access to codes then who would choose who is a pvper and who is not. Where do the casual pvper fit in? And what's to stop a person who is not so good at pvp and a little chip on their shoulder from claiming a pvper? I think in the end I13 changes would've been about the same as pvper is a title that comes and go. One minute a guy is a pvper but havent won a fight in ages and not even that well at it, compared to just a casual pvper who is awesome at it or the guy or gal that rolls in a pvp zone every blue moon asa break but know very well how pvp works and how to play it.

The engine is revving but the ****** is in neutral.

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PVPers might as well give it a rest and if they were serious about betterment of pvp, they would help instead of contributing to it's destruction.

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When we're given access to the code and are allowed to make changes to the PvP code, then you're entitled to say that. Until then? We're not the ones "contributing to its destruction." The only people that are doing that are the terribad whiners who come into zones once and get pwned and then go cry instead of figuring out how to get better.

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Maybe so, but do you have to pwn them too and throw salt on it by giving them an insult or two on the way out? If you throw salt, the target will get salty and might just whine with salt in their eyes. There's a difference between pwning someone and leaving it at that and pwning someone and being idiotic about it. Most people get pwned and do come back and try again, but get salty when the guy/gal doing the pwning feel that part of pwning is to belittle someone because they dont yet have the uber leet skills yet.

Yet are you suggesting that the so called whiners have access to the codes?

ah, Elusivity was obviously was going to get nerfed. Should've seen that one coming. As fun and awesome as it may be, nerf was written all over it ever since it went live. Kind of surprised it lasted this long. and I have a Kat/SR scrap and when I went to a pvp zone and first time I've since all this miss and elusivity words flying everywhere and just about anyone I came across had no chance, the writing was on the wall. With no worries about being defeated took the excitement out of it.

And the ah so elusive chace of finding that FoTM. Flavor of the Month. Well FOTM only last so long until the next change comes along and give it to a new build. It's the nature of the game. Guess that's why they call it the FOTM. Uber today, not so in 30 days.

entitled to it.


Well as far as I'm concerned if I wanted to look at it in a selfish [censored] point of view. I can give a rat's behind about pvp and if it goes down the tube. Probably why I dont bother yaying or naying major changes, just comment on the results and maybe the reason. I just adapt. But when someone ask why, I might answer. Like I said I dont think I13 went totally as planned but hey, it's here now and I dont think it will change too much. PVP is just a borderline niche of this game and low priority as long as the pop stays low. And the way it's looking, looks like it will be like that for a while. PVPers might as well give it a rest and if they were serious about betterment of pvp, they would help instead of contributing to it's destruction. If they want the PVE people to have say and control what happens, then keep on, they are doing a very good job. I'm just waiting for I20 when every toon in pvp have the same stats. And it's a trickery of numbers if one person play 4 accounts which is like voting four times, but when it boils down to it, that is one person, playing four accounts so artificially tryign to inflate the population isnt helping the issue as even now it's still small as hell. I just hope it dissappears altogether so this nonsense can just stop. so irrational. [censored] it, at this point what would I tell the suicidal person. "Either jump or shut up."

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Becuase if the good pvpers didnt take so much time smashing and running off all the new guys by having or feeling the need to excessively rub every kill they do in their face and then repeat process over and over then I 13 wouldnt even been needed. Running off new players, creates angry customers, angry customers carry it to the forums and pve, which carries over into buisness and angry customers aint good for buisness. So in sacrifice for a few L33t uber people that made it point to prove they are uber 24/7 and threw one too many grains of salt into the wound, I13 came to be for the better enjoyment of pvp by anyoen who wishes to go into it and not just the l33t few. All it would've took to avoid this nerf bat wasa little respect among players. a little honor. This is basically a self inflicted pvp nerf. Yes some people say that killing someone over and over to bug them is legal so is putting my finger in ya face but not touching you and spitting all types of explitive in front your grandma and wishing the old bat would die so I could laugh when they put her into the ground is all perfectly legal but doesnt exactly make it right. And and if I did do that, I expect a fight to ensure, which in this case complaints and animosity. Pre-13 PVP was nice with the powers and stuff, but it sucked balls because it was always like hard core pvpers owned the zone and didnt want anyone in. Well , mission accomplished on their part but that's bad for buisness by runnign off paying customers. And since the l33t group was small to begin with, they didnt stand a chance against the angry protests. Of course some of my coolest buddies was l33tz and left with the rest but if changing something to piss off a few people for the better for more then go for it. I see the concept behind I13 but dont think it worked out exactly as it was envisioned. Or maybe so depending on which side you're on. Many people are just glad the old d-wads as they became known are finally gone.

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I have news for you.

The people who could PvP under the old system can still PvP under the new system. It's not like suddenly everyone is on even ground (lol). The people that whined in I12 still whine and we still drive them out of the zones. Only real difference is that any retard can pick up a FotM build and do decently with it (but that may have been their goal, in which case lol).

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True, just too bad that not all the good ones realized that before they departed.

I find it ironic, like a person who is depressed because they are overweight but eat to make themself feel better which only causes them to gain more weight which depresss them more.
Now, pvpers been complaining that devs neglect pvp this and that and they are trying to ruin it. But in reality, pvp is a shrinking sector as people are being and have been ran out of zone and basically discouraged from trying, which seems to be the goal of too many PVPers anyways. Which in case keeps that sector pop low, which puts it low on the priority list, and at the same time put suggestions for changes i nthe hand of people who barely been able to or in some cases never stepped foot into a zone, but might have been itching to. And stating a convincing case why they dont travel to zone, changes get made such as I13 which now yes, any body can pick up a the FoTm and do ok with it as you stated, which is what many goal was in the first place. Before yes a skilled player couls take just about any build and make do with it, and awesome with FoTM. Now I13 takes cae of that leanign curve but yes a skill player is a skill player but there are less of them now then ever and many are still mad about the I13 changes and still make it a point to run off the new guys. It's like they claim to be hardcore pvpers but when you usually hardcore about something you try to sustain it and make it grow instead of tryign to cause it's doom? Like a self loathing suicidal person that claims to love themselves but continue to slash their wrists and complain of blood loss.

hmmm interesting concept.

Becuase if the good pvpers didnt take so much time smashing and running off all the new guys by having or feeling the need to excessively rub every kill they do in their face and then repeat process over and over then I 13 wouldnt even been needed. Running off new players, creates angry customers, angry customers carry it to the forums and pve, which carries over into buisness and angry customers aint good for buisness. So in sacrifice for a few L33t uber people that made it point to prove they are uber 24/7 and threw one too many grains of salt into the wound, I13 came to be for the better enjoyment of pvp by anyoen who wishes to go into it and not just the l33t few. All it would've took to avoid this nerf bat wasa little respect among players. a little honor. This is basically a self inflicted pvp nerf. Yes some people say that killing someone over and over to bug them is legal so is putting my finger in ya face but not touching you and spitting all types of explitive in front your grandma and wishing the old bat would die so I could laugh when they put her into the ground is all perfectly legal but doesnt exactly make it right. And and if I did do that, I expect a fight to ensure, which in this case complaints and animosity. Pre-13 PVP was nice with the powers and stuff, but it sucked balls because it was always like hard core pvpers owned the zone and didnt want anyone in. Well , mission accomplished on their part but that's bad for buisness by runnign off paying customers. And since the l33t group was small to begin with, they didnt stand a chance against the angry protests. Of course some of my coolest buddies was l33tz and left with the rest but if changing something to piss off a few people for the better for more then go for it. I see the concept behind I13 but dont think it worked out exactly as it was envisioned. Or maybe so depending on which side you're on. Many people are just glad the old d-wads as they became known are finally gone.

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What rei said. It would be akin to the NBA deciding that it's too hard for players to get into the NBA...so they would lower the basket to 5 feet from the ground. And they'd make the court half the current size...so people don't have to run as much.

Except guess what....the actual NBA players would still dominate the rest. It's pretty simple logic. Unfortunately, logic is not the devs' strong point. Eating is.

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Well except in this case the vet "NBA" stars of pvp mostly left and went on strike. Which leave it wide open to the people who pretty much like the changes or finally able to move two feet without being killed by the same guy over and over.
Now they can go three feet and whiff away at a Def based toon now before being killed. Now even a blaster can take a mez from a player as a joke. Anyone now can bounce a tank like basketball. And seeing a defender or another buffer now is like seeing a shooting star that is green red and pink on a cloudy day in a purple sky that is filled with migrating pigs.

Well word is they are toning down def based so it should be about even again.
Complaining do accomplish alot on this game apparently because someone or many people apparently complained about the state of pvp back in the day and thus I13 was born. And given the fact that many of the good pvpers and pro- pre-13 pvp players stopped playing, meaning there is less to vouch for changing back, and saying change it back aint going to cut it. Gotta state a case, a case which should've been stated in beta. No worries, better late than never, just hang in there, state ya case, give some numbers here and there and never know what may happen. I remember when ideas for evening up pvp not too long ago was being thrown around. People stated some interesting cases of course they been called many things from noob to nerf herder and such. But they won, regardless of what ya call them and you think they give a rat's butt about the same jokers that was harassing them in the first place walking off? Hell no, that probably added the icing on the cake.
As far as FoTM, there will probably always be a FoTM. I must say that I13 was a valient effort to rid that because it became kind of dull running into the xact same builds over and over and over and using the exact same strat to beat them over and over and over. Except there is a new FoTM with def based toons. Now you throw a rock and you'll hit one or probably miss at this point. With I14 there will probably be a new FoTM. In a way I guess it goess with the nature of being the Flavor of The Month. It is the flavor of the month not the flavor of forever.

I do think they should return mezzes back, and I never played a dom or controller or other mezzer in pvp. It just something that kept me on my toes. Now, who cares, even my squishy gets good resistance and mezzes dont last nowhere as long.
I think over all I can see why the changes was made. Ok you had the good PVPers, guranteed to be in the zone who lived in the pvp zone. But they was few in compare. Now how can thye get people in the zone? Why isnt more people PVPing? Oh I see, people dont pvp because they feel their build is underpowered for it and when they do enter they find it's not exactly a good learning environment to learn as the locals make it their mission to run off any newcomers. Wow, so to get them in the zone, lets make it where they stand a fighting chance regardless of skill or build. I13. Well now new people enter pvp zone but, wait the vets left. Well now it's a good learning zone for beginners and it's more "balanced". Things are good. But now def is now unbeatable. I know why not take off elude. it wasa bad idea. Now def is back to square one and the once FoTM goes back to the shadows. Now who will rise as the new FOTM. Step up to the plate. There is a special bat waiting.

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Why?

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Because it is the Fight Club way.

If more people would have followed the path of respect and honor, I13 would have never come to pass.

Be greatful that we are allowing for Arena options!

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well said.

i respect them, but if i'm passing by and they shoot me, they are fair game. if they are collecting something that can and probably be used against me later, then I might let them pass I might not depending on my mood. Ever got in a fight with a bugger and they pull out a Shivan that you seen them collect a day ago who swears they never pvp?
In SC, if they are my bounty they are going to get shot at like anyone else, no disrespect but in order for me to move on to a new target bounty they must die or leave. i rather have them just die then being ran out the zone so everyone is happy. If they are not my bounty and they are just collecting I usually leave them alone.
In RV, I leave them alone but as soon as they try to be slick and send their heavy after me, all bets are off.
In WB, I leave them alone as long they dont try to steal my scientist or attack me.

On theo ther side, if I'm in a PVP zone for what ever reason, especially during peak times (which is not hard to figure out) then I expect to be attacked. It is a pvp zone.

But under no cases d oI rant rave throw a fit or curse insult etc because I die or because someone is badge hunting.

Now, that is MY view and not everyone is so nice. Respect is both ways. Rspect the badger even if ya kill it and badger should respect the person doing the killing, which is legal here, because the whole point of the zone is pvp, with added goodies.

And in I14 I dont think it will get any easier for badgers so beware for those that apply since there is more pvp badges now and other stuff.

Really in defense for the PVP crowd, no one should set their self up for failure and dissappointment thinkign they will and everyone will give them a free pass to collect.

On the same note, really should bug the badger just because they are collecting stuff out of spite.

Kill them with a smile on ya face.

valid point.
learn something new everyday. last i heard they was just toning it down. now they are taking it away? hmm, sounds like back to square one.

Just by nature of a defense toon, if you get hit it hurts like hell so in nature as defense the whole point is to avoid getting hit. Yet, on th other end a person would like to stand a chance of hitting a defense toon or what's the point. balance balance balance. It all looks so well until you knee deep in it and it like a can of worms.

So with elusivity you have a basically unhittable toon, thus making it unbeatable. Without it, you have a toon that doesnt stand a chance. now if you have a toon with 95% chance of hitting assuming the foe have no defense, right. Now if that same 95% chance of hitting toon came across a toon that say, have 30% defense, shouldnt it or could've been that 95% chance to hit now have 65% of hit? I'm sure it not that easy or it would've been done here.
Anyone know the background of how acc, to-hit, -to-hit and defense work in relation to one another?

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The games called City of Heroes not Grand Theft Auto.

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Blast you beat me to it.

And last thing we need is another tool to grief people in WW.

well should've seen this one coming from a mile away. It was an obvious thing that was going to be nerfed, def based toon or not.

Hint: when you and ya buddies are playing on certain build that is almost or is unkillable, by anyother build, and more and mopre keep popping up with added brags of how uber they are, the writing is on the wall. Gotta be beyond blind to see this one not coming.

Well I see what you mean. The reason in thta case is easy why they lost. They got jumped! To some winning is fun and losing is not and that's why some people go after easy targets and why people who get killed often take it to heart and insults dont help. Hard to find a teacher sometimes when by the time they leave a zone they are so heated that they release by coming on the forum, then yell nerf. What happens? Piss enough people off, no matter how, then they yell nerf, then a nerf may happen or other changes. Which in turns, piss the actual veteran pvpers off, which in the end only increases them making it living hell for new guys, which starts the process all over. Something gots to give or quite frankly, those people that leave zone pissed because of getting ganked everytime they move might build up enough numbers to get noticed to make things "even" and get the last laugh.

I rather see PVP grow instead of shrink as it is. It's becoming more like a high school clique that wonders why they get smaller but attack anybody new that come in relentlessly then call them a punk for running away from a ten on one.

I see where the OP is coming from. The thing is not letting the new guy win or free pass or anything. It's about picking on the new guy just for the hell of it. I've seen regulars standing around without getting touched but a newb steps in, trying to learn the ropes, as everyone requests it seems, then they gang up on em over and over and throw in insults, who would want to come back? There is a difference between "trash talk" and down right disrespect. And yeah, targeting the easy kill over and over rep or not I can see how it can be a bit annoying on the recieving end while there is many targets in the zone.

Reading many of these post, PVP is dead and more crazy nerfs is in the future at this rate. Even in boxing ring if you repeatedly choose to fight a guy way lower skill in you, you will lose buy rates and your respect goes down the tube champ or not. Even in any sport just because you win doesnt mean you have to be totally disrespectful about it. And learning, is a two way thing. People request the new guys to learn to play but is in no way helping the process, but instead hindering the process. Like telling someone to learn to walk and you tie em up to the back of a car by rope and drive 50 mph and tell them to "keep up, noob." Then get red in the face when they complain and causes changes that makes it better for them. I'm not even saying to pull punches but try to keep the disrespect to a min. and you'll see it wont kill you.

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Honestly, do people expect me to be nice when they are asking the same question as the first about 5ish threads on the page? Especially when I'm correcting someone who has no knowledge trying to talk about something they don't know about?

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Well then why wont you just educated them without trying to make a monkey of them? Hard to to correct someone seriously when the person doing the correcting is coming off a like a d-wad and looking like a buffoon.

[/ QUOTE ]If they can't look at any of the threads on the front page, how exactly are they not a monkey?

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LOL, you got me there.

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Honestly, do people expect me to be nice when they are asking the same question as the first about 5ish threads on the page? Especially when I'm correcting someone who has no knowledge trying to talk about something they don't know about?

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Well then why wont you just educated them without trying to make a monkey of them? Hard to to correct someone seriously when the person doing the correcting is coming off a like a d-wad and looking like a buffoon.

Indeed.
But in a way, that content I guess to mean that you "PVPed" or risked the danger of PVP to get it and thus it is you reward. So I dont get why people throw a fit when they get killed in a pvp enabled zones but hey, that is them. They can throw a fit, dont bother me nor will I specifically target them. They will get equal treatment from me as if they are like another smoe joe in the pvp world. What you expect me to let you get that shivan so you can use it against me in SC? Yeah, right.
And yeah, refusing to fight is a pvp tactic. Not exactly one I would recommend if you want to live, but a tactic none the less. And in many places especially in SC, people wont stop trying to kill you just because you wont fight back. More than likely in Sc they are trying to kill you because you are their bounty and they are tryign to get PVP badges just as you or ya friend is trying to get pve badges.

Ao how do we solve this? Well I 've seen many good answers and suggestion in this post. They might all work in some way or fashion.
But I hope that it in someway could benefit the people that dont want to pvp and the hardcore pvper. Meaning you dont want the general population of pvp to die nore do you want a zone full of people that dont pvp. I mean killing sitting ducks (unless or are playing the stalker) is fun for the first time sometimes but it get old.
I'm for just removing the pve content from the zones. But also I wish there was some way to get more casual players into pvp more often or something. It seems so black in white. You have ya hardcore level 50 pvp spec toons or you have people who generally avoid it unless they are pvping with friends. It gets a bit annoying but understandable as a casual pvper to try and get new people in and they say "I dont have a pvp spec toon" It's almost as if the world of pvp has now become the "either you're a hardcore pvper or stay out" world. Hell in that case might as well give them their own server. Wait, aint that what test is for?
But wouldn't it be nice to have a build a pvp toon option where levels are out the window as in there is no "levels". You get in, build it to level 50 equivalent. Save it, and go pvp and this is ya pvp toon. That way pvpers dont even have to worry about pve content or what not. They have their own stores for pvp enhancements, and other stuff to give them the edge. And you get acces to that stuff by defeating opponents or fighting. Yeah I'm sure there will be some way to exploit that but if you think about it everything and anything can be exploited. Hell, just give them their own game. COX:PVP coming to stores this Fall.

on many other servers, the pvp population has seriously waned. Some to the point to where pvp is non existant beyond an SG fighting among each other every blue moon.
I think many pvpers just simply moved on to pvp exclusively on test andd some moved to the greener pvp pastures of Freedom sever. So, in short, your comments are right from a test and freedom server stand point.

There's nuthin like a suthin accent.

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Me: Hey guys, mission is up. If you need to sell/buy/train whatever, by all means do so.
He: Radical man! I might have to take five and hang ten, though, surf's up!
Me: Who's Radical Man? He get an invite or something? :P
He: Like whoa! Cowabunga! You need to surf yourself, your humor's a little dry!


See, it's not the player, the player's skill - it's this role that he's playing - some surfer type hero, complete with all the jargon. Enough to drive a sane man mad. What do you role players do when someone starts to play an annoying role?

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These posts are funny. Probably because I feel your pain. I reckon, I mean, I came across many people that was "like" so annoying when they take it too far.
The way I see it, there should be more fighting than talking, and if ya gettin on the team nerves, just be quiet. The key to it is small doses. I'm sure someone could stand a line or two of surfer jargon but geesh, after five minutes straight, give it a rest! And if they know anything about actual surfers, they really don't say cowabunga, radical, and the likes 24/7. It weakens the punchline if over used.

See my toon, my RP is a concieted, obnoxious, totally self centered brat, but I only say a line here, line there, to make the team laugh but never over do it.
It's like having a beast toon constantly sayin (Roar) or the variations every two seconds. The first couple of times, it's cool then it gets weak. Then after a while some one just wants to kick ya from the team.