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Quote:Yeah I heard about those numbers but do anyone have any evidence of those 80 million dollar offer or the other offers or just heresay from people on the SaveCOH side? Is there actual Valve statement with how much they offered and those ignored is there evidence that the offer was even serious? Now, it doesnt seem like NCSOft was itching to sell, which is their perogative since they do own the property and can choose to sell or not. Although I would call their exhausted all option a flat out lie...yet. Thier option may have been either they get the price that they are asking for or no sale. Seeing as they are not desperate for money and maybe didnt want to sell in the first place, that may have been the "options" that have been exhausted. Who knows what options was actually explored outside the people involved.The three-months-to-closing was part of the whole "Bad handling", so I took that date out as well. Good handling would have required easing into the closure more gently, giving devs enough time to "finish" the game.
They didn't try to sell the studio. After the studio was gone, they tried to sell just the game for $80 million (so reports several people), an outrageous price. At least two companies were waving more reasonable sums of money right in their faces (Valve's offer reportedly even included giving NC Soft a share of any future profits, so even if the game became more successful, NC Soft would still win), but they refused to budge on the price. Two other investors were completely ignored and never got a response at all. So NC Soft's statement that they "exhausted all options" was a flat-out lie.
For maintenance mode, the game would stay exactly where it is. NC Soft's own financials show that their entire worldwide server structure - not just for their games, but for all their offices as well - was only $2 million a year. The cost of keeping CoH online themselves (particularly since all the CoH servers were virtual, and could all be run on one physical machine in their server farm) would have been a pittance in their overall costs.
So, yeah, they could have handled it much, much better. Even if they didn't let the devs "finish" the game's story for fear of sabotage, they still could have handled it much better.
So if they did sell, it would have been considered handled better? The game could go on in one way or another and they could have washed their hands of the matter and everyone would be content?
Yeah but if I was them I wouldnt want to waste any server space that I was paying for merely for someone else benefit, even if it was pennies. That is akin to letting my neighbor use my internet but not paying a dime towards the bill even if I wouldnt miss the bandwidth. Could it have been ran on someone else server or buy that space to run the game on that particular server? -
Quote:Last I heard, no one died or suffered great loss from the hands of a game closing. Great loss in this context=family, lives, homes, property, land etc, neighbors, pets maybe, jobs, and the horror of seeing dead bodies floating in the water.[Hyperbolic Analogy]Is New Orleans the same after Katrina as it was before?[/Hyperbolic Analogy]
Some people left, never to return. Some people returned to rebuild. Some new people went there to rebuild. The people there now are trying to rebuild but it won't be the same as it was.
[Stating the obvious]The Titan Initiative can't and won't capture 100% of CoHers. The refugees that shelter there will form a new community in the image of CoH but it cannot be CoH.[/Stating the obvious] The CoH community is destroyed. The Titan community may thrive.
I've got a bridge to sell you. Only used by a little old lady to drive to church on Sundays. You have as much proof that I'm telling the truth as NCSoft is telling the truth.
But yet, there is just as much evidence as them telling the truth as them not telling the truth. So thus it cannot be treated as non truth either. Then again that is the case for just about any reason that anyone can give. Like ask someone why they play the game, there is no evidence beyond their statement if that is the true reason they play or not or just the reason that they wanted to say. Even if they said they wanted to use it asa tax write off, that dont mean it true either. -
Quote:hmmmm, I was talking about the handling of this situation, Closing on Nov 30th. That is what I mean I dont think there were many ways in that they could appease the crowd closing during that time.I would have let the game stay alive for another year. In that time, I'd let the dev team know about the impending closure next August and reduce the staff by cutting the Secret Project, but keep the CoH team on so they could finish I24, and then work on a blockbuster I25 (different from the one they had planned; this one would be a Grand Finale - probably it'd have to be rushed, but it's better than no conclusion at all)
Then, when the time came to close the game, it wouldn't just disappear from the face of the Internet, I'd just have them cease all development, convert all accounts to VIP (minus the "Free" stuff VIP players got every month - i.e., no Paragon Points, no Paragon Rewards token, no free transfer, etc), leave the Paragon Market open for anyone who still wanted to make purchases there, and let the game stand as a testament of (what would be at that point) nine years of greatness.
Paragon Studios would have been kept open, but sold off to another publisher for a reasonable price. (No, I don't know what's "reasonable"; I'm not an accountant or an economist) NCSoft could keep the CoH name (and probably the Super Sekret Project).
Whether that's practical, I don't know. (As I said, not an accountant) It might go too far in the other direction from what NCSoft did. But it certainly wouldn't have garnered the same hate as what they did do. Which is, as you'll recall: "You're all fired. I24 is canceled. The game's years-in-the-making plot will never start, let alone finish. Game vanishes forever in three months. Anyone who wants to buy the IP from us to keep it running can do so for $80,000,000. We consider this 'going out on a high note'."
Yeah but selling might be a good way to continue on, but according to them, they tried that and exhausted that option.
And with the maintence mode thing, who's server would the game be ran on? Would it still be NCSoft stuff or switched over to another person. How does that work? -
Quote:ok.I bet he was just insinuating that NCSoft's management doesn't stand by their developers, that they kill MMOs left and right, and that they don't communicate often or very well with their customers, or even attempt to understand their multinational demographics very well, for that matter.
Let's point the finger where it belongs. This is a conversation about competence, communication, confidence, loyalty, betrayal, and perhaps greed, not the devil. People are perfectly capable of stabbing each other in the back with no help from otherworldly monsters. And bringing the term 'evil' into it is just a way to deflect and distract discussion from the true culprit: NCSoft's management.
I was born and raised to stand by those who stand by me. Trust and loyalty are sacred. What NCSoft did to Paragon Studios and their fans cannot be glossed over by me, and many others here. At the end of the day on November 30, my loyalty will stand with those who stood by me, those at Paragon Studios and the friendships I forged here.
You cannot convince those of us with this principle, this viewpoint, to examine NCSoft in the spirit of making excuses for them. All of the charts and graphs and quarterly reports cannot explain away their handling of Paragon Studios, one of the finest dev teams ever to grace the industry by the opinions of many, many of their fans.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to get back to my week-long Champions Online test drive. The CoX channel there has almost a thousand members, and the Cape Radio channel is approaching a hundred members already. After that, it'll be back to City of Heroes for the remainder of November, but I do have to admit, it's been very refreshing to surround myself the past few nights with a community of CoX refugees who are actually focusing on the positive and not filling the air with the stench of death. In COH's final few weeks, it's likely that I'll spend a lot less time on these forums, and a lot more time in COH with my friends in the Virtue community.
This is a conversation about competence, communication, confidence, loyalty, betrayal, and perhaps greed.
Out of curiosity then, what would have been the proper way to end this? If you had to shut down this game, in what manner woud you or anyone that is angry about the handling would have handled it?
Would you made the announcement earlier, say in May or June instead and let the Dev team know that come Aug 31st they all were getting canned?
I think they communicated their reason for it, realignment, it's not their worry or problem if people choose to not to believe it. But would you go in more depth to the customer about the actual realignment process?
Either way, even if they handed out gold bars and anything short of not closing the game even if it was no longer thier focus or if it got to the point where it sank the entire company, I think the reaction of betrayal and lack of loyalty, and destruction of confidence would be the same. They could of told us the plan to shut down a year ago and all those things still would have went out the window and we still would be in the same boat now.
On the same token, all that stuff is two ways. Sure there was loyalty with giving money to them each month, but was there much loyalty with the mindest of not attempting to get more people to join or spending even more money even when way back the statement about slipping cash flow in this game came to light? Doesnt seem to be much consturctive communication comeing from the player side of the house especially after the announcement, just protest, anger and such. Communication goes both ways. The more angry and demanding it comes off as probably the more they will just ignore it and not address anything especially if the air of communication seems to be just to get an answer to feed the anger and run with it. I dont think anything they would say would appease many. They could lay out the entire decision process and many will call it BS just like when they said they was doing it, a legit reason in a buisness, for realignment purpose. So in what way should they have handled it if the other side doesnt seem ready to listen to anything but just want the party they claim to want answers from and to communicate with to fail? -
Quote:Shouldnt a community be able to continue on regardless of the media that it is formed on if it's an actual community? If it is truely a community, one that was willing formed on something temporary in the first place, wasnt it based on a sand foundation and while the game may end what is stopping the community from going on? If NCSoft can destroy a community just with a swipe of a pen, was it wise to build a community on the basis of something that could end at any moment under a company that have been known to end games in the first place? What is stopping people here from keeping in contact with each other if they wish and why do they need a game to form a community when if it is truely friendship or sense of community, there is ways to do that. Even if in RL a friend moves away, it doesnt mean the move is destroying the friendship.Babbling a bit too much above...
To put it simply, the game (just like every other game out there) was good enough, profitable enough and healthy enough to continue under any other examples of companies and games out there.
NCSoft just decided they weren't going to do it any more. And destroyed it and everything surrounding it very quickly.
NCSoft did it. Saying they are responsible for this is not calling them the devil, no matter how much people who want to demean others may wish.
Citing reasons why NCSoft destroying all of this as reasons for why NCSoft is not the devil is looking at things backwards, just like assigning blame to the victim, instead of the wrong-doer.
There is zero intent to associate the particulars of any particular form of wrong-doing and victimization, only the reversing of blame. -
Quote:okThank you for asking, because you clearly totally missed the point, intent and meaning (which is a two way thing, granted).
People offered their critique of CoH, citing it as brave/bold reasons why CoH may have deserved to be shut down and counters against why NCSoft was not the devil.
What I replied with was an attempt to show that citing these reasons (beyond not being bold or brave at all, I mean, c'mon, heehee), is reversing blame.
The game wasn't shut down because they did this or that wrong (that we know of... it may have been, as someone else has mentioned earlier, something personal... we have no real idea about those particulars... regardless), the game was shut down because NCSoft realigned their focus. This awesome game, this active community and all the reasons why everyone was here was simply collateral damage to whatever reasons they had.
All of this could have continued, under another financial umbrella if need be.
Whether or not it is "right or wrong" has no bearing on whether or not we dislike it.
There's no reason that brings us betterment for its sudden, unexpected closure. And that's fine.
Trying to come up with supposed justifications for this is simply assigning blame to the product (sometimes even the community) instead of simply leaving the blame where the truth points it to.
It's fine. NCSoft is clearly willing to take the blame. So, no need to defend their decision. They decided to axe it, axe the Paragon Studio employees and destroy this online community. Nothing evil about it, but that doesn't make it a good thing and that doesn't mean that anyone has to like it.
So, again, all I did was reflect back what the person I quoted had said.
They were basically comparing the game to perfection and pointing out that it didn't match up, therefore... we can all see the reason within NCSoft's decision to end all of this.
Eh... not so much. -
Quote:Hmm I think I only mentioned you said it was evil in about one or two statements of post both a piece yet it seems that is all you focused on out of everything I said. If you dont want focus on it, stop calling NCSoft the devil or compared to it and then assigning the thought process to anyone that dont agree to that statement as saying that they also agree that someone wearing a short skirt deserves to be assaulted. If you think they are the devil that is fine, but that doesnt mean that people who just so happen to think NCSoft is the devil, which in many cultures known as ultimate evil, the creator of evil, the icon of evil, the evil of evil, doesnt mean they think like thought you assigned to them. Why not just leave it as you think NCSoft is the devil? Why have to assigned that anyone that just so happen to agree with that statement you believe is people who think someone deserves to be assaulted in a way that is insinuated as being *****?Seriously just stop, lol... I never once said they are evil. Never mind all that you go on about it in there.
True, you never said they was evil. You just said...Citing any other reasons why NCSoft is not "the devil" is akin to saying that CoH's skirt was cut too high and it shouldn't have wandered into the neighborhood it did if it didn't want to get attacked."
If you were not calling them the devil, then what exactly were you trying to insinuate? -
Quote:Meh, havent came across one that is worse than this one. Many are on the same level, like WoW, and communities like that. CO is lot more friendly, except on the COX channel. Some carried their bad habits over, but it isnt bad besides the constant complaining about how CO isnt COX in this way or that way and etc, but many cant stomach the art and visuals.And people wonder why I'm not in a hurry to wander off into other MMO communities.
Not sure about DCUO, TSW, GW2 and Aion. -
Quote:welcome to COX forum. The land of the most friendly and mature gamers on the panet.IMO, most of this community has consistently been unable to allow dissenting opinion in the 8 years I have frequented these boards; it's been worse since the closure.
There are really mature and thoughtful people as well who can discuss things rationally. They are, however, the exception, not the rule, just like the rest of the Internet and humankind at large.
If noticing that makes me immature to you, then I don't think that word means what you think it means.
*shrug* -
Quote:Well could it continued? Sure but apparently the ones with the power to decide didnt think so.Notice I did not put a person into the analogy I gave, because comparing that aspect would be absurd.
Notice also that "NCSoft is the devil" is in quotes.
Take away all of those misfires against what I said and you can see the truth in it.
People claim they're being bold and brave and smarter for saying that the reasons CoH were shut down was because it wasn't perfect...
And that is intelligent arguments against the fact that NCSoft shut a profitable game down very suddenly?
I'm really not gonna get pulled into anything further... I said what I said and I stand by it. You either get it or you don't.
So, you're arguing against a ridiculous extreme that CoH was perfect (that I've not seen said)... Good luck and bravo for that, hehe.
This is continued ridiculousness.
NCSoft shut down a game that we loved, that was earning a profit and that could have continued.
But I do not see how calling NCSoft the devil is intelligent. Well you have your mind made up that NCSoft is evil incarnate and dont look like there is anyway to change that. Just as looks like NCSoft made up their mind to shutdown a game, that they probably have reason to in their eyes. To them it probably was llogical to keep the game going and havent heard a good reason to change their mind assuming if thier mind could be changed but when you put a closed mind, against another closed mind, nothing is goign to change and thus COX will still fall. Cant expect the other side to see your view if ya not willing to attempt to see the other side view.
And just as you said that you said what you said and stand by it, I dont see why NCSoft is so evil for doing the same thing basically you doing. They made a decision and they stand by it. Yet you still argue the point against it but your words are suppose to be final because...
But I never said COX was perfect just stating what I seen said about COX compared to other games. You already said that COX is not perfect and I said COX is not perfect so how is that arguing against your point? -
Playing Champions Online. Should of tried it a long time ago but better late than never. At first I wasnt in the plan on bothering with another MMO at all. After this game, had enough of games with concepts but always focused on teaming for the good parts of the content. Then a friend told me to give CO a whirl. He been there for about a year and was an ex-COX player. He said he never had to team, deal with people, or anything and it's solo friendly but when he gets into the mood to do it, he can but there is no real instances where he felt like he had to team to progress through the story lines. SO I went and lo and behold he was right.
A game made with the soloist in mind instead of being an invisible group that was only good for the money. Not to mention friendly community, and very helpful with new questions. None of that snarky nonsense or "Look it up on Wiki." crap, especially when the wiki dont mention the question I'm asking about. Helpful people. I think I'll be there for a while until that games end too.
I took the closing of this game easier than most it seems so it was easy for me to try new games because I went in with an open mind and with the mindset to judge games by it's own merits and not how COX did it or this is not how COX did it, or this isnt like COX, that isnt like COX, that's not how they wrote storys in COX and etc. I understood that it is not COX and hope it will never become COX because it is Champions Online. -
Quote:Yeah I remember the demands for that stuff. To me, the devs seemed a little hesitant but it what it seemed that what the vocal people was demanding.The raiding thing was not something Posi did out of pure "i want to develop a raiding MMO without quitting my job" whim. He did it because it was what people were demanding.
Players dating back to very early in the game (see Hamiddon) wanted content where multi-group leagues were required to defeat encounters. Some always hated Hammidon, but there were a lot of players that loved to do Hammiddon and Rikti Ship Raids as often as possible. These players always complained there was not enough of it in addition to there not being enough (any) end game content.
As time went on, it got more grindy and team oriented. I twas awesome for people that loved it and always had a large group of people running around but as more and more team based stuff was implemented, the more that it may any server outside Freedom and Virtue and a couple more uneeded due to small population, especially on redside.
I dont think it had to be either or as it seemed, but there is always seem to be a large group that sticks to the old addage of ""well, we think only raiders should be allowed the l33t gear!!!" and that seemed to be the logic behind the decision of that. In COX world, every hero has to work with other heroes to get teh good stuff effectively. Even by comic and hero lore outside this game, most heroes actually work alone most of the time. I dont get why that part of the lore was focused a little bit more in this game. -
Quote:Assuming they wanted to sell in the first place.That's hardly brave or out there commentary... It's nothing that wasn't repeated often enough before August 31st.
The pointlessness of saying it now is that the game's end did not have to happen because of such things. NCSoft decided to end it (and end it the way that they did), full stop. It could have continued (with profit), it could have been modified for more profit and (I'm pretty certain) it could have been sold.
Citing any other reasons why NCSoft is not "the devil" is akin to saying that CoH's skirt was cut too high and it shouldn't have wandered into the neighborhood it did if it didn't want to get attacked.
CoH was far from perfect. We could enumerate its faults and any and every mistake made. However, doing so amounts to holding it up against perfection and declaring that its demise was inevitable because it wasn't perfect.
Just seems silly to me.
So why is NCSoft the devil? And not other buisnesses? I dont see this as a person to person victim comparision. More of a buisness decision where there are no victims. So why is NCSoft the devil and anyone who doesnt say that NCSoft is the devil basicallly is saying that someone with a short skirt deserved what came to them? I dont think it's black and white like that. I dont think NCSOft is the devil nor do I think that woman wearing a short skirt deserve to be assaulted. With that compararison it kind of attempt to put anyone that agree that NCSoft is the devil in a box of supporters of assualt against people that wear short skirts and kind of trivialize the matter of assault, a serious crime. Compared to closing down a game, normal buisness decision that is at worst, bad customer service.
This is what I been talking about. Just because a person dont jump on the "hate COX" bandwagon, they are always something negative. Now we support violence against short skirt wearers too. What's next? We support Al Queda if we dont join the hate and smear NCSOft campaign?
With the fault thing, well many have been holding COX up as the perfect infallible MMO for a while now. What comparision was expected? It seems like many think that any game compared to COX is hopelessly flawed. A game sucks if it's not like COX. If it's not like COX and the way COX does it, then that game is flawed and etc. It would only be natural after a while that it may be compared to perfection if people have held COX up as if it's was the absolute perfect game with no faults or any fault that it did have was ver minor and should always be over looked while other game faults are absolute deal breakers. -
alright so the rumor is now a bit clearer. Rumored to have been offered or the asking price of anywhere from 500,000 to 80 million.
Man, do anyone have any idea from a rock solid stone no rumor or hearsay figure of what was offered and or asking price?
I guess since it seems like everyone and their momma is throwing out asking price numbers out the blue I guess I join the game.
I say the asking price was $29.4 million and the offered price was $762,211.38. -
Quote:Yea I've seen some strange behavior exhibited by those crowds too. People getting ravingmad because the pro-game season got shortened, people angry that a tv show got canceled or a character killed off (smh).Emotional attachments? To your pastime? A fictional, virtual pastime of silliness?
What planet are you from?
We here on planet Jyrkth laugh at puny, infantile fools that have emotional attachments to such things.
Business must cater to the most fickle and unattached customers as possible, for that is what our calculations tell us is the most extreme optimal income glory.
Only children with dolls and baseball cards get such feeble attachments!
And sports enthusiasts...
And television watchers...
And movie watchers...
And book readers...
And coin collectors...
And in politics and religions and pie-making contests...
And wickers... don't ever get in the way of someone making a wicker-basket.
*
I think people get attached to things alittle too deep especially in things they have no control over while taking for granted the things they do have ownership and control over. I dont get the logic. -
What does the average successful MMO rakes in a year?
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Quote:sigh* dont forget some people are villains. Dont forget the city of villian side.Devs (or whoever's left)...
For the last 24 hours, remove the mobs from the streets of Paragon City. Remove the Rikti from the War Zone and deactivate the towers.
Let it be that the heroes finally WON the battle and the last Rikti retreated back to his own dimension. With that distraction gone, the villain groups retreated back into their holes, unwilling to face the might of the heroes of Paragon with no interdimensional threat to distract them from "petty" crime.
Let us celebrate in the streets of Paragon City that no longer do women have to worry about having to fight for their purses on every city block...that no longer do paramilitary groups hold gatherings within mere feet of PPD stations.
Let us have a city FREE from villainy...for the last 24 hours of the game. If we're going to go out, let us go out winners!
But sounds like a good way to end it on victory note last 24 hours, but I'm sure someone somewhere is going to be trying to get in that last minute Hami, TF/SF, Trial run or doing an activity that started it all. Street sweeping. Plus I would be disappointed to log in on the last day to find there is nothing to do or defeat. WOuld feel like an anti-climatic ending to the last 30 days. Build up to all of this to spend the last day looking at each other and not a single enemy around on the streets. -
Quote:Yeah I wished more things did dont focus on teaming. I dont mind it here and there but many times, it was long wait to form or find a group of people interested in the that particluar task at that given moment to get that particular goal done. Freedom and virtue, made it bit easier but most of the other servers unless ya knoew someone that knew someone running that task at that given moment, then trying to do something like UG in the later part of the day was nigh impossible and far and few in between. Even on the most populated servers, it was mostly magi farms, with few magi full runs, a UG ran about as often as a purple dropped soloing. I didnt mind UG but lotso f people hated it and thus the amount of people brave enough to run it was small. Thus in all the regularly ran and joined Itrials left only BAF, the one with Maurader, and a Keyes here and there. The rest was very far and few in between. But cant solo those because it's a forced team thing and if you cant just so happen to catch one at the exact right moment, then a person can forget about it. Same with SFs on villian side which was all but a dead zone. TFs, usually often enough but trying to join or form a non-speed run Eden trial for example wasa PITA.And as I have stated multiple times in the past: The incarnate system is what kept me subbed
I loved the iTrials; except for UG. You and I are direct opposites...you loathe teaming...and I loathe soloing. In my 7+ years I think I have soloed a whopping 10-12 missions. If CoH were not an MMO where there were other people I could easily team with...I never would have purchased it.
Group rewards were time gated before itrials btw...look at all the TFs
Back to the OP: I feel confident in that the devs will easily find new work, and am hopeful it doesn't require up and moving (unless of course that's something they want).
It's like people say they love the game but in their actual actions, they want to speed through everything like it's a chore to play. That confuses me. It's like saying you enjoy a movie but skip straight to the credits. It just seem that not many people enjoy the ride as much as they say.
And there is a difference between "speeding" and murking anything in the way in a quick manner in this context. -
Yeah one major clue, was NCSoft's track record. COX isnt the first game they shutdown. I think it's number five.
If a person isnt going to invest in another MMO because it could be ripped from under them at any moment and they are actually true to that way, then I dont think they would have been playing this game or invested that much and time into it if that was the case.
I understand maybe the first timers to the MMO world and it's an unfortunate punch in the gut of the reality of it.
ANy MMO can be shut down at any moment. Do many companies do it? Overall, no. Did NCSoft have a habit of doing it? Yep. Thier behavior track record was available just as much as it was after the announcement when many people decided to jump on the MMO Killer moniker. They been MMO killer for a long time now, yet, most of them was more than happy to invest their time and money they miss into them.
Would trust someone with your retirement if they hada track record of disappearing with the money? Most people would not. And if people did anyways knowing that track record, most people would say that is illogical behavior if they start talking about that person scammed them. Do it make the scam proper, by no means. But most peopel would ask, Why did you give your money to a person that you knew hada record fo running off with it? Same concept here, on a smaller scale, well cant measure the emotional investment in quantity. Yet some people rationalize it by saying the other games needed to be shut down or it was obvious they would shut down or NCSoft didnt seem crazy enough to do it to us just as people who give money to a known scam artist will say, well maybe they turneda new leaf, those people that got scammed should of kept an eye on him better, oh it was because they was in California, I'm in NYC.
I guess maybe now they understand that no one is immune now like in the past. It can happen to any game any community, at any time based off the decision of a few and that is how it always been since MMOs been created. Just many was blind to that fact. Like a Tornado can happen anywhere all time of the year. Some places are less likely to have them just as some companies are less likely to close a game. If a person live in Tornado alley and get too cozy because a tornado hasnt hit your area yet, then that is their folly if they are caught unprepared with no insurance even though they seen tornadoes hit their neighbors house, the one across the street, and three more or so down the street. And cant say that they thought they didnt need insurance because they havent had tornadoes in Seattle in over ten years now. For MMO disasters, NCSOft is tornado alley, other companies have other type fo disasters and other companies have even less if very few disasters and thus do not shut down games as often. Can it still happen of course.
I cant imagine how this game shutting down feel to an MMO virgin that thought it was like console games where it last forever. I dont see where the veterans, especially those that "claimed" to have played NCSoft other now defunct games have an excuse. It the nature of the beast except we chose to inhabit the realm of a beast that had for a long time now a habit of biting.
It is good choice to not give any more money to NCSoft if they feel that is right. It's better late than never. Guess people have to get actually bit to realize they are not as immune as they say think they are. It's sad that is what has to happen, where they must see their hard work, money, ideas, go down the tubes to learn the nature of the MMO world and understand that just because they are playing the game doesnt mean that their presence all of a sudden make that game special and immune to shutdown. Too many years have people walked around here as if COX and themselves were god's great gift to this MMO world and now NCSOft just proven that this game and those people are just merely another drop in the bucket that is not even worth keeping around.
I'm more in sympathy for those that actually lost something in dealing with NCSoft than those that are angry due to their own blindness. Customers just lost a game to a company that even prior to Aug 31st was known as an MMO killer. When people brought it up in the past they was shouted down by the same ones that are now labeling NCSoft an MMO killer. I guess at the time the people who called NCSOft out was "wrong" because it didnt affect COX. That's why this thing kind of look like a mere selfish thing because no one gave a crap and if ya said anythign negative about NCSoft then you was called every insult in the book. Now if you dont call NCSoft insults ya labeled an employee and worse. I'm sure most dont have selfish intentions and are truely hurt.
So yes protest, dont do buisness with NCSoft, curse the day they was created but in the end I hope this time those people truely learned something. It's just sad that it took them to have this pain directly to learn. They had 4-5 other games to open the yes yet chose to keep them shut. Well, now the lesson has fallen on their heads this time. Do not get into the bed with things that habits that would hurt if they do it to you. No matter how much emotion you give, or how many ideas, or how attached, a buisness will do what a buisness does and most of the time emotion have no place in buisness. I can gurantee I think the protest would have gotten a lot more attention if it was done when any of those other games was shutdown. Because then it would not come off as the usual angry nerd-rage because their game got shut down. When we remained quiet when NCSOft was busy shutting down the other games, thet probably figured, hell, we can get away with it to anybody. No one gives up a fuss as long as it's not their game. So COX shutdown probbaly wasnt to hard decision for them and again, many of those people in other games just shrug. It's a cycle. IS the people that is protesting now will be there to protest when GW goes under? Or will the entire protest be known as gamers that only protested because it was their game and dont give a crap about any other games. People talk about me and my inability to feel what others feel but the way it looks, it looks like I'm far from the only one. I'm just not blind to that fact. -
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Quote:Soooo this means that WoW is totally teamed based and COX only recommends that it be done the team way?Now lets translate this to a game like WoW, go try to get the end-game merit-thingy they use to progress for end-game armor in a team in random dungeons.
Then do the same solo... oh wait: they dont let you even do ANY progress towards that solo.
But on the other end of the spectrum like CO, COX might as well be WoW.
On another note, that may explain why WoW is the big dawg of the MMO world. COX, not grindy enough for the grinders but too grindy for the non-grinders. When WoW came along, it seems that millions of people 8-10 million or so, prefered it the WoW way, no way to do it unless ya team. Then the other way of COX, teaming is efficient but solo is grind hell compared. And less grindy games have even less population than COX. Yet, the news of a grind fest and think it's bad thing, by the words but flock to it when it hits the market. So really what is a game maker looking to make a heap money to think? Lets see follow the footsteps of less grind to no grind games which seem to attract maybe a 100,000 people or follow the steps of the grind game(s) that have millions that seem to do not mind grinding and will do so for years on end. It makes it look as games like COX is a mere niche market and very risky. While grind games are mainstream here in the states. -
Quote:thanks for the clear up.Which is... exactly what I said. Tony is involved in one small piece of it (web development).
SithRose was made a moderator because they are wrangling Plan Z forum sections, not the other way around.
One of the reasons they're considering moving to independent forums is to avoid exactly that kind of confusion.
Makes sense. -
Quote:Thought TonyV was actually involved in the project according to the who's in charge section and who is doing what.And just to be clear, Plan Z isn't *from* Titan Network. The group of people who are planning it just happen to be using the Titan forums as a place to coordinate, and will probably be setting up their own entity at some point in the future. Neither Tony nor any of the Titan folks are heading it up, and are only tangentially involved in it.
It's better to think of it as "The planned successor from the City of Heroes/Villains community".
Head Web Developer:
And, last but not least, handling our Web Development, we have TonyV, who will be developing our web-portal and online presence. He will be working closely with both Downix and Voodoo Girl to ensure that the look and feel of the game give our project a strong public face.
And if members here were create and plan a game here, it wouldnt be far-fetched to say that the game is a product of COX forum members, no? I guess the most proper term would be that PlanZ is being made by Titan Network forum members and a person that high up in the Titan Network pecking order. Thus Titan Network is involved with Plan Z. They are giving them resources and the place to plan it, one of the main guys of Titan Network is directly involved in the project, and the website is used as a recruitment, people that are planning and involved also seem to be Sithrose, a moderator of Titan Network forum and probably more involvement that I havent covered. Sounds like Titan Network is very much involved. And I wouldnt call those relative few that is planning Plan Z and making the decision THE COX community. PArt of, yes, but not the entire community. That really do kind of marginlize those that are not able to partake in Plan Z, not wantign to partake in Plan Z, dont have the needed skills to partake or contribute to Plan Z, those that would like to partake but dont have the time to partake and etc. If those that are working on the plan Z is THE community, then what does that make the rest of the people, the thousands, possible 50,000-100,000 that is not part of Plan Z creation? They are not the community anymore? -
Quote:Think they made a choice and I doubt threats like that will even get them to bother trying to change their mind. It probably want them to more hastily bury the game and everything with it if even to get rid of the insanity of those in the community that put out threats like this thinking it would convince them of anything.I never got to say first after red name...
I'm never gonna be able to do my CoH sequel comic following War Witch and Apex after the end of their series. Was waiting for back details, specifically swords to do it... AND WE WERE JUST ABOUT TO GET THEM!!!! AAAAHHHH!!!
Damn you, NCSoft. You're blinded by ego to your lack of honor, morality and cowardice. The moment CoH goes dark and its IP buried, never to be seen again, will be the moment your clock starts ticking because its only a matter of time until your destruction. If the only way to get the IP sold is to cause the failure of your company, making you have to sell it as part of bankruptcy than so be it. If that's the only option you give us, than so be it.
Consider the disruption of your western market, your 6%, as our beta testing. We are only getting started. Release server side codes and allow private servers or sell the IP. Make a choice or like I said, we will make it for you.
Would you be convinced if someone said that to a company you was running to sell or better yet, your own personal property to a person who came to you and threaten you and wish to ruin your finance because you refuse to sell him something that you wished to keep? Or would you start shaking in your boots and sell it to him because he made a threat. Would you continue to try and open lines of communication with a person that tries to threaten you, send threating emails, send odd packages to your home and workplace, and going around, like you are, saying "Sell or else bad stuff will happen because that is their only option now?" WOuld you pick up ther phone and say, "Well, since you put it that way, I sell it to you for what ever little bit of change you happen to have in your pocket now." Or would you label them as a nutcase and try to avoid contact and if you do see them you wont be so friendly towards them? -
Quote:Never got a purple drop nor anything above an uncommon incarnate salvage drop solo, the incarnate threads rarely dropped, and had to rely mostly on the guranteed drops for completing the arcs. That made progress very slow compared to the rest of the game. But yea, it seemed that it was not meant to be made for solo, and the game was made for teams. One reasons why I love CO. I can hop on at 3 am on a Tuesday and get things done at a good pace instead of feeling limited on the big stuff/progress because most people went to bed on the weekday due to work or school so basically have to time my schedule up with theirs just to get what I wish to get done. COX seems to be aimed at team folk and while solo play is allowed it dont seem to be really encouraged. CO on the other hand seems like teaming is allowed but really not needed besides very very few instances and the alerts but no big bonus for doing over soloing. Two different target audiences. COX targeted and catered to the bigger group of teamers. CO seems to cater to soloists which seems to consist of their greater population although many teamers of the COX type is popping up more and more on that COX channel.Well considering most people team - that kinda makes business sense to cater to those people. It was never about persecuting soloers as much as they like to play the martyr role. I did the solo path on one of my toons (Well ok Duoed with a friend) and had no issues getting all my incarnate stuff. Then again I really liked playing my toon and it wasn't about how fast can I get the shiney. And for some reason on that toon during the DA arcs...I got a purple drop every day so in the end I made out nicely