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It is interesting and certainly lends to a lot of speculation...
But, for the sake for humor (and because we really just don't know yet)...
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Quote:This is exactly a point I was going to mention. Thanks, ZM....
And WRT the 60-80 employees Paragon Studios had: remember that a fair number of them were beginning work on a different project. CoH was once run by a skeleton crew of 15 Developers (and 5 Support). It could still continue nicely with perhaps just 30-40 developers.
Why they wouldn't bother to shrink costs before just nuking the entire thing... I'm not going to bother listing the possibilities, i just know that I don't like it.
Regardless, the 80 paid employees isn't a be all end all representation of how much running CoH costs. I was very surprised when they retained so many people after Going Rogue, but many of them, eventually, were indeed transferred to the other project.
This applies to NCSoft's money towards Paragon Studios, but not singularly the CoH product.
It's just something to keep in mind when talking about the business realities. The game could be run for much less. -
Haha, just going to add one more thing before I run off...
Quote:It's not that people don't want the standards! Even if I do not enjoy World Of Warcraft, I would never say that its success is due to big marketing alone (if at all).I don't think people want "different" at all. If that were the case, we'd see more players in CoH and brilliant TV series like Pushing Daisies beating out the endless parade of cookie-cutter medical and crime dramas.
The point is that there are enough people that do indeed want different (tv, movies, games, and so on).
Enough people that are indeed profitable!
The reasons that these different things get canceled and/or don't get made is because they're more difficult for the backers to believe in and they don't get the recognition and facetime from widespread marketing (or improper marketing, when you try and sell something different as something typical) and then they measure the amount of profits vs. the amount of profits their big, widespread standardized successes have.
There are enough people that want different that can benefit business that want to make different. There's plenty of room for people who want to make and want to have the samey same. It just does not need to come at the cost of everything else. -
Quote:I hear you, but how much of that is much bigger marketing?I don't think people want "different" at all. If that were the case, we'd see more players in CoH and brilliant TV series like Pushing Daisies beating out the endless parade of cookie-cutter medical and crime dramas.
You see, marketing has won so much within these industries that their mandates now star within the creators themselves...
Due to marketing optimization, the product must fit into a category that can be easily described and understood.
Trying to come up with more complicated and different things that fit into these cookie cutter pitch categories is extremely difficult (though not impossible). Unfortunately, the money that is required to market, back, produce these endeavors is large and there are more less-talented-people out there (skilled enough to create, discover and/or believe-in such projects) than there are talented visionaries with the backing and/or money already, so you get a lot of the same... and people grow accustomed to and accepting of it.
That does not mean that it is what they truly want... It's just the best they can get and don't consider themselves to be in any situation to change any of that at all.
And, again, with the enormous amounts of money that goes into the actual marketing campaigns, honestly... with the right marketing, you can sell millions of pet rocks. That doesn't mean that everyone really wants pet rocks. -
Quote:That's kinda happening too. The MMOs we're seeing out now have been at least 5 years in development. The way SWTOR crashed and burned sent a message to investors that no one's really going to "take" all of WoW's customers, and MMOs are not a great investment (especially if you force them to go the WoW route and stifle innovation - if people wanted to play WoW, they'd go to WoW with its 7 years of content, not to a brand-new clone.)
I think we're going to see a lot more think-outside-the-box games like Minecraft and the stuff in Arcanaville's thread, and a lot less traditional pay-to-play MMOs being released in the next 5 years or so.
Personally, I'm in favor of slowing the hell down. The market really does NOT need 50 MMOs. The gaming population can't support it.Quote:Yeah it really seems as though they're rushing around in a panic because "the formula isn't working!" And they can't fill in the blanks with another generic Korean game. Trying to fit the square peg into the round hole just baffles them.
When they really should - along with everyone else in such a position - be boring new shaped holes into the structure to see what else is out there.
I have to wonder at the thought processes of people in those high-level business seats. Are they seriously that set in their ways, and that blind to the *actual* fun of playing different games that they don't comprehend that people DO want "different" and not just "more"?
It's not that there are too many games (or movie makers or musicians)... it's that there are too many producers banking on the sure bet by sticking to formulas based on the previous successes.
Everyone forgets and/or abandons that the previous (and future) successes were things imagined and created by highly talented (and usually exceptional) artists and these things were not based on standard formulas.
Of course, the big successes (this-year's-Disney-Pop-Singer) create big new dollar sign goals in business-people's eyes... and the smaller, completely reasonable and sustainable ventures get left in the dust...
And the cloned entertainment gets more and more repetitive.
However, as an independent artist, I thank people like you who, at least, recognize these things.
I fully believe that there are many people starving for greater variety of quality entertainment (and I think that our need for such entertainment is similar to our need of food and sleep).
Much like our society has a gluttony of food, but a severe lack of nutrition,we have a gluttonous amount of entertainment options, but the majority of it leaves the people severely lacking of any benefit. -
Agreed and welcome to the forums!!!
Don't ever give up.
The goal may be taken from us eventually, but there is never any reason to ever give up on what you want. -
Quote:I'm fully behind taking this step, but I certainly would have advised against pasting the emails in a public forum.No, but it is easier and requires substantially less effort, which makes it easier for rude people and trolls in general to send their less-than-helpful messages. And like Tony said, these e-mail addresses were not made publicly available...until now.
It's all done now, so this is pointless criticism from me here (and I don't hold anything against TonyV for the way he handled this), but I would have suggested announcing that I had those emails and then set up some sort of process of giving those emails to all who contacted me for them (either through PMs or via signing up on a website).
Then again... That's great in theory, but there is only so much time and energy that a person has (And so much of that has been being spent on these efforts already, beyond everything else he has to do in life) and this was the most expedient manner of handling it. *shrugs*
I just think that the obligation falls on the more reasonable people here to greatly outnumber any such trolls and simply do what we can.
No one is perfect and no manner of doing anything that gets done will ever be perfect.
Quote:This worries me for many reasons, not the least of which is the fact that it shows how desperate the Save CoH movement has gotten, which isn't a good sign at all.
I understand people not liking to appear desperate, but sometimes you have to recognize and admit the truth.
Being desperate does not mean being incapable. And I don't think that this step is any greater sign of failure than the lack of announcements that we've succeeded. It just is the way it is and this is a good step to take right now, because time is running out for some of the better potential results.
By the time that the time is right... the time is usually gone. -
Sending emails to these addresses is no worse (and possibly no better) than sending physical letters (or packages of capes and masks) or emails to publicly listed addresses.
I'm not a follower (hah, that is quite the understatement, but how do you express such things via text to strangers... it just comes off as arrogant blah-blah-blah-ing, but I put it here just in case you choose to believe me), believe me I tend to lead my own initiatives through most everything I do (no doubt, sometimes to a fault).
However, in this case, I trust in TonyV's judgment call here. He could certainly be wrong. He may not know a thing more than I do... But I am 1) figuring that he has more of an inside track, regarding the people of Paragon Studios (again, I could be wrong, but I have no belief that TonyV would or should out any such information he may have gained through such contacts) 2) following his lead on this, because I am in with him and this movement.
If he makes this move without our full support, it'll pale in comparison to the move with our support.
So, he's called for this... and I'm backing him, because I believe it's in our best interest for what we want.
Again, I do not tend to follow another at all, but I understand the concept of sticking together and I am sticking with TonyV on this.
Oh, if I have an issue, I will question, I will voice my opinions and I may balk... But, for me, this is not one of those times where I feel any need to do as such.
Was I surprised to see this step now? Yep!
Do I recognize TonyV's own uncertainty and displeasure at taking this step now? Yeah, I think he expressed himself very well in this message.
We're all just humans (out of game) and I'm willing to move forward and go along with the informed decision that a guy (who I have been trusting, relying upon, and benefiting from through all of this so far) has made.
I'd never ask anyone to step beyond what they truly believe is right. However, this is just a case of sending emails to another address. It's not really that large of a deal.
It may have a beneficial impact. If this company is really going to sell things and/or play ball, any potential "spam" is not going to stop that or make them look less favorably upon us and/or the business aspects of allowing CoH to continue (legally).
At best, in my opinion, this (just as the cape and mask initiative) may lend a result something like the trial in the movie "A Miracle on 34th Street". An clear outpouring of support, unmistakable in size and intent.
It could impact the person behind the screen.
It could make a difference.
It very well may not help at all, but the lack of doing saves nothing but your time and energy to be spent on something else.
Such a direct showing could connect with them and that could add the human element that may be necessary to make them interested in allowing CoH to continue.
No matter how negatively such a showing could be taken by these people, that type of negativity would not counter a business move that they believe would be smart and/or are taking action towards or are contemplating.
While the likelihood may be small, the positive impact could be a spark that kindles something more... but I cannot see the impact of this being a negative that extinguishes the flame.
Please, let's stand together and not splinter, leaving our efforts far more feeble than they would be otherwise. Together, we are more than we are apart. -
Quote:Yep!Just making counts here.
There are people that work toward saving City of heroes from closing.
There are people that work toward making something that'll accomodate the players after City closes.
And then there are people that are on the forum, barking their opinions sitting on their backside.
I don't have many skills that can help with certain important aspects and I don't honestly have a lot of time (who does??), but I am doing what I can, anywhere and everywhere I can, through signing, posting, sharing, commenting, sending, being present and (hopefully) inspiring.
And... sometimes... it requires effort, people. It is worth it. Make the effort to change things towards the way you wish them to be. The amount of time for the efforts are momentary... but the satisfaction and fulfillment of having truly made those efforts (win or lose) are long lasting. -
Quote:Oh, that's crazy!"they haven't said that you cannot make your own characters in the game, have they?"
Yes they have said exactly that. Many have gone on to say that this is because people will only make Marvel clone characters if given the opportunity.
Thanks! I hadn't heard that there was official word about that.
Haha, pretty silly. Another Super Hero title that won't come close to the greatness that CoH captures. -
Agreed. And, this is an aside from the topic of why we want our own heroes, which we're in agreement about, as far as I've heard, they haven't said that you cannot make your own characters in the game, have they?
I've certainly not kept track of it at all, I only remember hearing and reading some of the information regarding playing their trademark characters.
Just curious if it has ever been stated that this is the only way to play the game.
It's funny, I only somewhat recently finally found some understanding of wanting to play the trademarked characters.
Don' get me wrong, I still much prefer to play original creations of my own and I think it'd be a ridiculous mistake to prevent people from creating their own original characters in such a game. I just finally related playing other people's characters to portraying characters, as an actor, that have been written by someone else. I can certainly take them on as my own and portray them as best I can. Of course, within the realm of playing ongoing video games, it still pales in comparison for myself. Especially since it's not like I was solely chosen to represent that recognized/famous character.
As you said, I'd much prefer to see my own creations come to life. -
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Quote:I too am speechless. This community is truly amazing. In the past two weeks of forum lurking I have gained a huge amount of respect for you all. And this ices the cake...
Makes me wish I had been a member of it...
Quote:There's still time. But even if this doesn't pan out at all, maybe remember how you feel and try to take that feeling into another community down the line.
We can all stand to be a little more awesome to each other, I think.
Except for the fact that... you are a member of it now!
One of us... -
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That is awesome Aggelakis! I expect photos!!!!
I guess Agge is excused from joining us on TLAPD! -
Quote:*friendly man-hug and pats on the back*That's it in a nutshell, basically. I get to the character select screen and start crying. It's ridiculous. I'm 42. Even reading the forums breaks my heart.
Best computer game ever made.
Eco
I found logging in for the Unity Rally and for a few get-togethers, just hanging out and talking and joking really helped to break some of the ice and bad feelings I was getting when logging in and looking at the game.
Join the SaveCoH global channel. Commiserate... and, eventually, if you stick through it, it should turn into joking.
If we are going out (and I'm not at all convinced that we won't win out in the end, one way or the other), then may as well go out with some smiles.
After joining in on some of the festivities, I've enjoyed logging in and just playing more than I did prior to taking part in those.
Just figured I'd mention it, in case it helps at all, mate. -
Hey, we want you guys to stay together!
The team that eats together... -
Only read the thread title...
Is this post SFW?
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Quote:OH!! Haha, no worries! I didn't realize it was just on the wall, I was looking for a full structure.It's the "Dock to the Wandering Barnacle" link,
http://www.droppin-the-fork.com/coh/...rates-dock.htm
it's really, really lame.If you squint you can kind of see a ship-like shape on the wall. Kinda. Sorta. Almost. I should go in and do something more with that now that I know the base editor kinda works okay.
Right on. Hey, at least you did it! And the rest of the place looks really kickass. -
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Just wanted to add that I had a great time with everyone at the party!!
And I went to join the fight in Atlas Park, but AP1 was full by the time I flew myself over there and I saw nothing strange going on in AP33 (nothing stranger than usual, that is).
I definitely want to have parties in some more easter-egg rooms/locations! -
Quote:Oh, I totally didn't mean that as a knock against you!! I just looked through the pics and didn't see the ship!And yeah like I said my ship-building skillz are pretty sad but that was 2007, give me a break.
I made it out of cabinets and wall fixtures.
Which ones show the ship itself?
I'm sure my ship would look just as boxy as you're describing, hehe (as, yeah, cabinets and wall fixtures were my first thoughts)! -
Sounds good. I'll spread the word!
I won't be around this Saturday, but I'll definitely be making these when I can.
C'mon people... keep active!
Also, don't anybody be worried if, say, this first weekend, the numbers are a lot lower than previously. That doesn't mean that the following weekend won't be bigger than before! -
Love it!
Saw this earlier, figured there'd be more time to chip in, LOL.
You people all rock! -
Oh, but I second all of Father Xmas's questions!!
(May as well double post... Maybe I have a chance of catching up to Arcanaville or even Gold Girl!)
Quote:NICE!I have a ship, a cove, a hidden grotto. Now, they're rudimentary, I kinda sucked at making the ship, but hey.
My god the pages are still up on my site.
http://www.droppin-the-fork.com/coh/...easureisle.htm
I don't see no blast'd ship though!
What FXmas said... !!
I think I'd try and get Geoffrey Rush to conduct the ceremony!