EarthWyrm

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If I see Empathy for villans I will die happy.

Seriously.



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Seriously. I would go back to attending villain hami raids if it meant I didn't have to count on people bringing Warburg nukes for buffing before the charge. I always feel vaguely terrible that I don't like pvp zones and can't contribute more than an alpha-soaker for that part of the raid.

PL my empathy corr, IFeelUrPain!*

* = because "and it makes me tingly" won't fit in the character name box... man, I like the concepts for villain empaths so much better than hero ones...

edited to add: Bah. If corruptors only get one new primary (per Castle, 2 or 3 above), and we know they're getting storm, then they aren't getting empathy. Ah well...

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There is no AV, so there is no real need for more than 4 people to be on that task force.

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Using this logic, I can think of offhand of only two task forces/trials that should have a requirement for more than two people: Quaterfield's and the Cavern of Transcendence.

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I thought he just said that Quaterfield had no AV. Wouldn't his logic specifically exclude it?

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The point of a minimum team requirement isn't to tell you how many people you need to accomplish the mechanical tasks of completing a mission. The point is that task forces with a higher team requirement are more epic. The bad guys are sending the varsity team at you, and they're not holding back.

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If that's the point of having a higher team requirement, then there are only 3 TF/SFs in the game that qualify - LRSF, STF, and LGTF. Those are pretty epic. For the rest of them (excepting perhaps the first mission of Katie Hannon), the "varsity team" that gets sent out could be efficiently dispatched by a reasonable team of 4.

For example, take Manticore's TF. The "varsity team" is Hopkins. If we were facing Hopkins + Countess Crey + a bodyguard retinue of 8 Spines PPs, then maybe requiring 7 people for the TF would be reasonable. But... Hopkins?

Look, I don't disagree with the change in principle. They want to do something like this, it's their game. But they should have adjusted minimum TF sizes BEFORE tossing down this sledge-hammer of a solution, especially since it (a) provides easy access to big spawns for farming and (b) does, in fact, exclude more casual members of the community who previously might be able to rarely participate in a TF, but now may be excluded from them altogether.

And yes - I read your response to the poster who's a full-time caregiver for someone else. I know that's "not your problem". It's technically not mine either, but I'd like the devs to think about everyone when they're making decisions, not just the farmers and RMT advertisers.

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But you don't Get the Influence boost from Being Exemped in the STF

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What inf boost from being exemped? Minions are worth slightly more, but lieutenants and bosses are worth less inf when you exemp than they are at your native level.

I've got another thread on inf while exemping in the Player Questions section, but I've been testing this since the smoothing patch went in and can verify that the inf awards when exemping are solely the equivalent of xp awards, which are higher than inf awards for minions but lower for lt's and bosses. If we had a multiplier applied to inf awards while exemping before the patch, it's not there now.

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Note that the ratio of inf granted here is exactly 1:2:6 going minion:lt:boss. Numbers this precise aren't accidental. There is a different multiplier for rewards based on enemy class when exemplared than when fighting at your native level.

Specifically, as a native level 50, the ratio for +2 minion:lt:boss inf awards is 3464:11878:37117, or a little closer to 1:3:10.

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Just a quick FYI on this: all testing has shown the minion:LT:boss XP ratios to be 1:2:6 for levels 45 and above.

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I knew those ratios looked familiar, but hadn't seen them in the context of inf awards before.

What seems to be happening is that the inf you receive when exemplaring is based on the xp ratio for your native level, rather than the inf you would receive at your native level, and as such is a reduction compared to what you would otherwise get at level 50. If nobody's tested by tonight, I'll see if that's the case at lower levels as well using a level 42 brute and a level 30 brute.

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Two quick questions: one, were you on teams for this, and if so, were they teams of the same size?

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I was solo for all testing, to avoid having to deal with the team modifier variables.

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And two, were they the same type of mobs each time? Not just minion, LT or boss, but the same types of minion, LT, or boss?

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I utilized Circle of Thorns whenever possible; there were only 2 levels where I didn't use them, because I couldn't identify a flashback arc that had them in it. In the 30-34 range, I used a Wailer mission and got the same minion/lt/boss values in every other range. In the 15-19 range I got a Lost mission, where the +2 minions were 4949 but the Anathema lt's have a modifier that's about +50%; in this range I just headed back to Sharkhead and street-hunted some +2 Arachnos to verify that mobs without a modifier were giving the exact same values. At least for minions and lieutenants, they were.

I did some testing hero-side with this as well, using my level 50 fire/fire tanker. Even-con mobs across multiple enemy groups and multiple levels to which I exemped were giving 2779 inf. I suspect that's the correct value to go in the last row of your table for minion xp at level 50 (it's currently 2800 and change, if I recall correctly), if your observation about the xp ratios being applied to the inf awards above is correct.

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I'm going to check this out when I get a chance.

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Thanks. You're one of the people I specifically hoped would end up looking at this, given all the great work you did on the xp charts across levels.

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I'd love to get some numbers from other folks. Right now it looks like while we were getting an across-the-board increase in xp/inf at our native levels, we actually got a DECREASE in inf while exemplared.

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I didn't write down numbers -- should have -- my level 45, on a 50's mission yesterday was getting unequal XP/inf. But I wasn't exemped or lackied or anything. I wonder if it isn't the level adjustment, but teaming doing something odd?

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I don't know what effect teaming would have on what I noted. My testing, both pre- and post-smoothing, was done solo to keep that variable controlled.

Still waiting for any kind of evidence that there wasn't a stealth nerf to inf earnings while exemplared to deal with Ouroboros/tf farming.

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(Honestly) Not to be rude...but...
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Thanks in advance for your understanding and for your continued support.

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Don't thank in advance for that which will never be there...

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Srsly. I just don't understand the devs mindset here. It seems that any other type of farming is A-Ok, as LONG as its not recipe farming. what da hell?

[censored] they, ENCOURAGED farming with the Purples, and now this is a wet dream to RMT farmers.

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Ah, but there is ANOTHER undocumented change that was incorporated at the same time, to deal with the RMT inf gain possibilities of this.

There was a stealth nerf to the amount of inf granted while exemplared.

Specifically, when exemplared, minions are currently worth 75% of what they were worth prior to this change and the xp curve smoothing. Lieutenants are worth around 68%. I don't have the multipliers for bosses.

I don't need them, though, since when exemplared (as for a task force/strike force), my level 50 receives LESS inf for a lieutenant or boss than would be received for a comparable-conning lt or boss at my native level.

Let me put some hard numbers to this.

During double xp weekend, I exemplared my brute to run a level 45 arc through Ouroboros. I received 13,200 inf per +2 minion killed (I have a screenshot to document). Since inf was being doubled, the base value was 6600.

I ran the same arc today, same difficulty, etc. I received 4949 inf per +2 minion killed. This value (4949) is the same that I received for a +2 minion when malefactoring to 39, 34, 29, 24, and 19. It is also 75% of the 6600 that was the base prior to the smoothing.

+2 lieutenants, prior to the smoothing? Well, double xp value was 29,036, so half of that is 14,518. +2 lieutenants today while exemplaring: 9898.

+2 bosses today while exemplaring: 29,694.

Note that the ratio of inf granted here is exactly 1:2:6 going minion:lt:boss. Numbers this precise aren't accidental. There is a different multiplier for rewards based on enemy class when exemplared than when fighting at your native level.

Specifically, as a native level 50, the ratio for +2 minion:lt:boss inf awards is 3464:11878:37117, or a little closer to 1:3:10.

Folks are welcome to test this out for themselves and expand on it. The only place I can see possibly being wrong on this is if the 13,200 for a +2 minion during double xp was actually due to a bug that was more than doubling inf awards. I simply don't have a screenie that includes rewards while exemplared from any other play session to check it against.

It is possible that what I've identified is a bug in the system. But it also seems very much like exactly the kind of adjustment to exemplaring that would be made if the devs were concerned about people solo-farming TF missions set for 6-8.

I'd love to get some numbers from other folks. Right now it looks like while we were getting an across-the-board increase in xp/inf at our native levels, we actually got a DECREASE in inf while exemplared.

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One of the many aims of this most recent update was to address exploitive behavior that could be used for influence/infamy farming.

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So is this change related to what appears to be a reduction in the bonus inf you get while exemplared?

Just curious.

tl;dr

Just kidding - you knew someone would do it.

This is a lot of very good advice. It would be nice if it were common sense, but I guess common sense isn't so common, and lots of folks - myself included - would be well advised to consider it more often.

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Exactly. I am really pissed about this, there needs to be some form of compensation for those who did buy both games. Like maybe a free month or2 or something because this is totally unfair to those who spent their hard earned money on both games.



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Seriously....Some of you could find something to complain about in a wet dream...

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Having to change the sheets?

On topic: Am I the only one who thought that EvilRyu was being sarcastic, since actually buying those boxes got you a free month of each game already?

Someone probably already pointed that out. I'm just too lazy to read all the way through. Bad me.

I look forward to seeing how the game progresses. Keeping the core teams intact and having more resources to support the game only seem like good things to me. If they eventually put out a new box or sequel, I'll probably buy that, too. I'm a believer in this team, and if new management follows through on their commitment to the game, I don't see a downside.

Congrats, new NCSoft folks. Old NCSoft folks - good acquisition. Best of luck to all of you.

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As before, players go around knocking on doors to receive a "Trick" (an attacking mob) or a "Treat" (an inspiration or enhancement).

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Just for clarity's sake - when you say "enhancement," you mean "salvage," right? Or was there a new class of treats added?

Looking forward to it!

QR

I have what may be an idiotic question.

Where are the empowerment stations in the base editor?

I've built a base before, and I know I installed one, but I was just working on a new VG base and went to the workshop tabs -- and no empowerment stations. I double-checked on the hero-side SG I'm a part of, and I can't find them there either.

Have I just come down with a terminal case of the stupids?

Please -- help!

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Currently, our plan is to enable the Character Transfer service with no limitations. There will be no restrictions on which server you can or cannot transfer too.

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Thank you.

~Wyrm

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I hope when they bring the invasion back they have a double xp weekend at the same time!

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I suspect this is a joke, but because it's the kind of thing that can start rumors, I feel obligated to point out the following.

Invasions are a "world event," as are double XP weekends. The devs have said in the past that they are not able to have more than one world event going on at the same time. So it is highly unlikely (I won't say "impossible," but I'd put the probability at somewhere around the probability of having a minion drop a Posi Blast acc/dam) that we would see invasion plus double xp at the same time.

~Wyrm

Earth Wyrm’s Guide to DOOOOOM!
Version 1.0

If you’ve spent any time on the forums, you’ve probably acquainted yourself with the notion of DOOOOOOM! This is the over-arching fear, generally unwarranted, that City of Heroes/Villains is about to implode, that the sky is going to fall, and that the CoX universe as we know it is about to be sucked into a black hole from whence it shall never return. It is important to note that DOOOOOM!, as commonly conceived, is distinct from the notion of “doom,” which is simply things that are really, really, bad, and potentially real-world life-threatening. Such things are off-topic and have no place on the forums.

DOOOOOOM!, however, is very much a part of our existence. Moreover, it’s genre-appropriate. What would superheroes be, after all, if not for the threat of impending chaos and the end of life as we know it? Were it not for the DOOOOOOOM!-cryers, we might forget that we’re playing in a game world of heroes and villains and begin to take ourselves far too seriously. As such, it’s important for all of us to understand DOOOOOM!, in its many incarnations, to interpret the actions that bring about DOOOOOOM!, and to be able to react appropriately when DOOOOOOM! seems all but certain to win the day.

To help us all understand DOOOOOOOM! a bit more completely, I asked for volunteers from Mrs. Schultz’s third-grade class at Paragon Elementary. After a careful screening process, one young lad stood out based on his insights into what it means to be a superhero in Paragon City. His name is Timmy, and today he and I are going to talk about DOOOOOM!



“Gosh, Wyrm, this seems like an important topic. What can you tell me about DOOOOOM!?”

I’m glad you asked, Timmy. You see, DOOOOOOM! is a natural reaction to any change in the order of things. It’s part of what we call, “The human condition,” which is a deep topic only of interest to philosophers, theologians, and HR managers. Because of the limited scope of interest in the so-called “human condition,” a lot of people don’t realize that a certain amount of DOOOOOM! is healthy. It’s our way of expressing that something is changing in a world that we had gotten comfortable in, and that we’re scared at how things are going to turn out.


“Oh. So, what does this have to do with being a superhero or a supervillain?”

Another good question! One of the things about being super – whether you call yourself a hero or a villain – is that you have super powers. It’s what makes superheroes what they are, after all. When something happens that threatens how our powers work, it makes us worry that we’ll be less super. That now, when we fly around the city or leap from building to building or teleport ourselves across huge bodies of water, we may be less impressive.


“But most of the people in Paragon City can’t do any of that. They just stand around getting mugged and waiting for someone to help them. How come supers feel less impressive when there’s always normal people to save?”

We forget that these normal people are always going to look up to us. We only compare ourselves to other heroes, and when we think we’re going to be less impressive than other heroes because of something that’s happened, we may cry DOOOOOOM! Because we forget how much good we’re still able to do helping people without super powers.


“Can you help the lady who stands in front of the statue of Atlas getting mugged by nobody?”

No, Timmy. She’s a mime. No one can help her.


“DOOOOOOOM!”

No, not exactly – well, all right.


“So DOOOOOOM! comes from being less powerful, and from mimes?”

That’s part of it, but not all. Let me lay out some of the basics of DOOOOOOM! Becoming less powerful is sometimes called “nerfing”. You can trace the roots of the usage through Google if you like, but it’s a term used to indicate that someone who used to be really, really, super, is now only really super. Sometimes your attacks do less damage, or your heals heal for less, or your powers recharge more slowly – there are lots of ways to get nerfed. Most of these changes are made in the name of something called “game balance.”


“That sounds scary. Is it kind of like ‘the human condition’?”

A little bit. It’s an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, and penetrates us, and –


*Cough*

Oh. My bad. You’re very correct, Timmy, we don’t want to violate anyone’s intellectual property. Especially his.

The idea of “game balance” is complicated, since it has to do with a large number of design factors you, as a player, never have access to. There may be things a year or more away that are being factored into game balance decisions, and because everything is subject to change at any point in time, the reasons for such decisions will often be lost on us. There may be a particularly Evil Design that people Especially Despise, and that creates Exiting Droves, but that is necessary to allow the game designers to invent something new and fun for the players.


“Exiting Droves? That’s kinda awkward. Don’t you think people would have gotten it after the first two ED references?”

Such a bright boy. As I was saying, a lot of things we see as nerfs are done to keep the game playable and interesting. The game wouldn’t be any fun if everybody played it exactly the same way, or if there were a strategy that let you run through everything in a couple of days. A lot of people would be tempted to use the “best” way to play the game, and they would get bored quickly, and the game would die. So you see, nerfs are just a way of keeping the game alive. They’re for our own good.


“You really like being nerfed, Wyrm?”

Like it? Goodness no! Nobody likes being nerfed. And people always look back and say, “You know, I used to be so much more powerful. I used to be able to herd everything in the Hollows into one dumpster behind Flux, then footstomp them all into oblivion!” But really, does that sound like fun?


“Yeah!”

Huh. You know, it does. But that’s kind of the point. If you couldn’t look back on the “good old days,” it wouldn’t feel very much like a comic book, would it?


“I guess. So DOOOOOOM! is all about nerfs and mimes?”

Again, Timmy, that’s close – but not quite. There are other things that can create DOOOOOM!, with mimes and nerfs being two of the most prominent. Other things are just general changes in how the world works. For instance, for a long time the heroes of Paragon have struggled against the Hamidon.


“Hamidon? Ooh, I’ve heard of him – he’s the jelly monster!”

Precisely! The Hamidon is a huge glob of jelly that lives in a valley on the fringes of Paragon City, where he creates monsters that want to wipe every human being off the planet.


“DOOOOOOM! Nerf Hamidon!”

Settle down, Timmy. As it turns out, there’s a big change coming for Hamidon. He’s going to become a problem for villains as well, and the way the monsters and mitochondria around him work is probably going to change. But there are a lot of heroes who have gotten comfortable with how Hamidon works now.


“How’s he work?”

Well, a lot of heroes get together. They attack and kill everything around him, then spend a half-hour or so hitting Hamidon himself. Well, first they make sure he’s held and not able to attack them, then, depending on the shard of reality in which the heroes exist, they either attack him or they just hug him to death.


“Is being hugged to death kinda liked being nerfed?”

If you ask the developers, maybe. In this case, not really. The point, however, is that Hamidon now is very easy to take down. Assuming you have somewhere between 60 and 200 heroes, a top-end computer, a lot of people with holds, and no one who decides to spawn a Kronos Titan to grief the raid. People can get the special rewards for being up Hamidon without doing much at all. They can show up late, punch him once, then go hide behind a rock and get a really spiffy reward.


“So where’s the DOOOOOOOM!?”

Right now? There isn’t any. But soon, Hamidon is going to change, and the nice, easy way of getting Hamidon-Origin enhancements is not going to be nice or easy any more. At least for the first three days it’s out, that is. But right now, we’re not supposed to know anything about how the new Hamidon will work, which makes people nervous.


“Not supposed to? Does that mean we do?”

I’m afraid I can’t answer that, Timmy. You lack the proper security clearance.


“Oh. Okay. So what you’re saying is that people don’t know how something is going to work, and they think it’s going to be really bad, so they start getting all DOOOOOOM!-y?”

You’ve got it! Bright lad. There’s one more topic I want to cover, though, before we wrap up.


“Really? I’d have thought people could get more than enough DOOOOOOM! out of nerfs, changes, and mimes.”

You’d think. And to some extent, they do. But you can talk about changes from a different perspective as well. You see, the Hamidon change is based on something players are familiar with. You fought Hamidon before, and you’ll fight him after the change is made. Fighting is fighting is fighting.


“Until it gets nerfed.”

No, then it’s still fighting. It just takes longer, and you have to rest when you’re done.


“So what’s the other kind of change?”

The other kind of change, Timmy, is what I call a “meta-change”. It’s a change not just in what you do, but in what it’s possible to do in the game as a whole. Do you know what PvP is, Timmy?


“DOOOOOOOM!?”

Ah, my young friend, you make me chuckle. No, PvP is not DOOOOOOM!, contrary to what some forum posters may tell you.


“Is it LOL?”

Only sometimes.


“But if it’s not DOOOOOOOM!, and it’s not LOL, what is it?”

PvP is short for “player vs. player.” It’s when two players fight each other, instead of mobs controlled by an AI that often emulates a springer spaniel with an uzi. When City of Heroes was launched, it had no PvP. Oh, there was the possibility for it, but it wasn’t much of a focus. After all, why would heroes want to run around beating up other heroes? Then they made arenas and then came City of Villains, and it made an awful lot of sense for heroes to want to fight villains, and vice versa. When PvP was introduced, though, there was a lot of DOOOOOM! floating around. People were worried it would ruin the game.


“Did it?”

Not at all. To ruin the game, it would have to be relevant. No, all the DOOOOOOM! over PvP turned out to be not well-founded. Now we’ve got another round of DOOOOOOM!-crying, over the introduction of Wentworth’s and the Black Market, where heroes and villains can buy and sell things to improve their characters.


“Haven’t people always been able to buy and sell stuff?”

They have. Not like this, though. It’s going to create what people call an “economy”.


“Is that kind of like ‘game balance,’ Wyrm?”

No. Much like the human condition, an economy is completely irrelevant to game balance, being an artificial set of values imposed on a functionally infinite supply of wealth and goods that can be traded across reality shards. The developers have even said that the economy – which is going to exist because they’re introducing inventions – will not affect how the game plays at all. It’s simply another thing to do with your characters, but the villains you fight – or the heroes, if you’re a villain to start with – aren’t going to become more or less difficult because of what you can invent and buy.


“What about inventions? Are they DOOOOOOOM!?”

I don’t believe they are, Timmy.


“But they’re new, right? And different than what people could already do? Something being new and different makes it all DOOOOOOOM!-y, doesn’t it?”

In theory, yes. And there are certainly those who would agree with you. I think this has brought us to the point where we need to talk about what really is, and what really isn’t, DOOOOOOM!-worthy.


“It seems real complicated, Wyrm. How can you tell? I mean, there’s a lot of stuff that goes on, right?”

Indeed there is. I’m going to do my best to sum up, but I have to tell you that there are folks who disagree with me, or who will disagree with me. That doesn’t mean that I’m wrong, of course. Just wanted to be clear about that. But people disagree. So when I talk about what’s DOOOOOM!-worthy, well, someone else may have a different perspective on that.


“Should I listen to them?”

Of course not. Er, that is, you should always think for yourself, Timmy.


“So what’s DOOOOOOOM!-worthy, Wyrm?”

Serious DOOOOOM! should only happen if something happens that indicates that Paragon City is in a state of decline. For instance, subscription numbers dropping below 100,000 might be DOOOOOM!-worthy. Consolidation of servers because it’s no longer cost-effective to keep reality shards like Victory or Pinnacle open would almost certainly be DOOOOOM!-worthy. Functionally, anything that shows that the time we have left with our super-alter-egoes should absolutely be expected to elicit cries of DOOOOOOOOM!


“That’s it? People shouldn’t cry DOOOOOM! over anything else?”

That’s not quite what I meant to say. Generally, though, DOOOOOOM!-crying over anything that doesn’t legitimately threaten to end the game is either an over-reaction, or intended to be funny. There are other times that it’s been very legitimate, though, even though the reason people were crying DOOOOOOOM! turned out to not have anywhere near the DOOOOOOM!-y consequences that were anticipated. Take, for example, enhancement diversification.


“That ED thing you didn’t want to name?”

I changed my mind. Remember that with enhancement diversification, the way people slotted powers changed pretty fundamentally. It no longer did any good to slot six of the same enhancement in a power. After three, you got diminishing returns. The idea was to make slotting more diverse than “one accuracy, five damage”.


“Did it work?”

Sure. Now, instead of everyone slotting one accuracy and five damage, they slot one or two accuracy, three damage, and maybe an endurance or recharge reducer.


“How is that DOOOOOOM!-y?”

By itself, it’s not. But there were people who really didn’t like it and who quit playing. DOOOOOM! came from predictions that so many people would leave the game that there wouldn’t be anyone left, and that no one would like an underpowered superhero game.


“But Paragon’s still here.”

Yup. The thing some players didn’t realize at the time was that even if people left the game, the game was still growing. New players who came in – and there are new players all the time – would never know that they were “underpowered”. In fact, that’s kind of what folks running huge shared-world games count on. If they lose a few players because of a game balance decision, they still have a solid core group of players who enjoyed the game regardless, and they’re going to get new players who will appreciate the game for what it is rather than what it was. It’s small-scale DOOOOOOM!, because it’s never good to lose players, but if you’re losing few enough players that you’ll still be able to grow, the game will survive. It’s only when the number of people you lose over a decision out-strips the likely number of new players you’re going to get as the game continues that you really have to worry about DOOOOOOM!


“Uh, that was a lot of big words. What’s it all mean?”

Sometimes, people get unhappy and quit the game. As long as everybody doesn’t quit, we’re fine.


“Wow, Wyrm. That’s a whole lot of information about DOOOOOOM! I think my brain’s about full. I already forgot every word that’s supposed to be on tomorrow’s spelling test.”

You’ll do fine, Timmy. Anyway, spelling is over-rated in a world with spellcheckers.


“I know you’re a hero, Wyrm, but you kind of look like you want to monologue. Do you?”

You are a remarkably perceptive lad, Timmy. In fact, I do.

Here’s the thing about DOOOOOOOM! It’s not a bad thing. It really isn’t. When you hear people talking about DOOOOOOOM!, it’s not because they think the world is going to end. Not yet, at least. It’s their way of saying how much they enjoy Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. It’s their way of saying that things are a lot of fun the way they are, and they don’t want it to change, and they don’t want it to end. People who hate the City don’t cry DOOOOOOM! – only the people who love it. And there are a lot of us. We came here for a variety of reasons, but we stayed here because it’s like a second home. It won’t last forever, but for as long as it does, we’re going to enjoy it.


“Wait – you mean that DOOOOOOOM! is a good thing?”

It is, Timmy. It’s a very good thing.


“What about mimes?”

Look for them to be nerfed in Issue 11.


“DOOOOOOOOM! FTW!”

Atta boy, Timmy. Atta boy.

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I do? That's bizarre. I never have, and yet you seem so certain that I have. A wonder that you seem to know me better than I know me.

If the editorial "you" was good enough for you....

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Touche.

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edited to add: It is, in retrospect, possible that I've been leveling brutes so much that I over-generalized based on playing an archetype that goes non-stop activating powers.

I slot Brutes for damage first, too. It makes the fights shorter so you spend less END.

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If you're playing your brutes to have short fights, you're not maximizing your fury bar. Plenty of END + minimal fury is a particularly useless brute, especially when we're looking at the lower levels and the amount of +damage from fury greatly outstrips what you can get from slotting TOs and DOs. This is clearly a playstyle difference, but I believe very strongly in using the brute's inherent to its fullest potential, and doing this means slotting end reducers before I slot damage in most attacks.

I have figured out what works for me, and you continuing to insist that I am somehow "wrong" when I've run 2 brutes to 50 this way, is nothing short of willfully belligerent.

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The point, however, is that there is no challenge inherent in figuring out what a given character most desperately needs in the low levels after you understand the archetypes and what they are supposed to be able to do.

The point is that there obviously is a challenge in it since you're doing it wrong. :-)

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I remember now why I have you on /gignore in the game -- you, and one other person, after 18 months. You are officially the first person to reach that list in both the game and the forums for me. There's really no reason to be rude when you're stating an opinion, and adding a token smiley does not make it non-rude. Nor, for that matter, does picking out one tiny bit of a post and leading it into a discussion that has become completely off-topic just for the sake of arguing and trying to look superior. I backed off and admitted that my perspective on accuracy+end as primary concerns is specific to my long term and recent playing of brutes, and I stand by that. I also stand by the statement that there is NO CHALLENGE in figuring out what to slot. You play the character, you figure out what it needs based on your playstyle.

Go do what works for you. Clearly, no one else's opinion matters, and all you want is an argument.

~Wyrm

p.s. Just to have something on-topic: Cross-server inf transfer is inevitable. Curious to see what the devs do with/about it.

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Yes, there are going to be those of us attempting to use it like Western Union or an offshore bank. But to call an interception griefing seems a bit... harsh to me.

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It's all intent-based. There are posters, way back in the early stages of this thread (and others), who have indicated that they will go out of their way to attempt to disrupt such transfers. If the intent is to disrupt another player's experience and harm their enjoyment (assuming that they are deriving "enjoyment" from a non-exploit portion of the game that does not in any way harm anyone else), that is where some folks could perceive it to be griefing.

Random interruption of a poorly planned transfer during a busy time of day? Not griefing. Part of the system.

As to the rest, it's too early to call any of it griefing (even though I've used the word myself, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong). We don't know the rules and we don't know what will be possible and/or allowed. We haven't seen the system in place, and the information we're working from is incomplete.

~Wyrm

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That there's an "extra layer of challenge" to figuring out that you buy accuracies and end reductions first?

Must be, since you actually buy accuracy and damage first....

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I do? That's bizarre. I never have, and yet you seem so certain that I have. A wonder that you seem to know me better than I know me.

~Wyrm

edited to add: It is, in retrospect, possible that I've been leveling brutes so much that I over-generalized based on playing an archetype that goes non-stop activating powers. The point, however, is that there is no challenge inherent in figuring out what a given character most desperately needs in the low levels after you understand the archetypes and what they are supposed to be able to do.

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I'm tired of all these people who want to make themselves yet another easy button. Hey, when I start up a new character, I don't go dumping all my extra funds from one character to another character. Guess what? I still have fun playing the game. It adds an extra layer of challenge having to manage funds and decide what to buy first.

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This is a joke, right? That there's an "extra layer of challenge" to figuring out that you buy accuracies and end reductions first? It's micromanaging personal finance, and I don't need a game to practice that, and I don't need someone telling me it's fun when it isn't.

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I can play in supergroup mode all the way to 50 and make all my funds by selling to the right stores.

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/em shrugs

For some folks, it's a quality of life issue. For some folks -- clearly not you -- the game is more fun if they don't have to micromanage their funds.

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Now what is with this attitude where everyone thinks they are entitled to just cruise on through the game because they are too lazy to play through a second time.

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Because name-calling really helps you make your point, I can see.

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Just becuase you earned extra funds on one character doesn't mean that they belong on any of your other characters. We're all part of the human race, but that doesn't mean that because one person earns something that everyone else is entitled to it if they never worked for it.

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Huh? Nobody is advocating that we distribute the mass inf in the economy to everyone and make everyone's game easier. That's just bizarre. If you want an analogy, it's not the whole human race we're talking about distributing to -- it's our family. I don't know about you, but if I struck it rich in the lottery, I'd share the money with my family. I wouldn't say, "Well, I know that you're still struggling to make ends meet, but it's important that everyone work through that on their own." I'd share the wealth. Different characters on the same account are much closer to "sharing with family" than the odd MMO version of socialism you seem to have set up as a straw man.

~Wyrm

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Player A1 puts up a Level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.

Player B1 puts up the same Level 12 TO for 1,000 inf.

Player A2 (trying to transfer funds) offers to buy that level 12 TO for 5,000,000 inf.

Since player B1 wants less, and is obviously trying to move his items faster, his "for sale" is processed first, so he ends up with 5,000,000 inf (minus fees).

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Wowee. My first redname response to one of my posts, and it's to clarify that the devs have chosen to go with a relatively player-unfriendly mechanism.

Any chance of you putting in a way to legitimately and non-griefably transfer inf across servers at a slightly higher rate, then? It's something that can be worked around pretty easily by determined players, but it seems like if you can already do transfers of goods across servers, there's no need to put the players into a griefable workaround.

~Wyrm

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Seriously. In the past there have been some glarily obvious exploits that amazed me that the devs didn't see coming. It's one of this dev teams major achilie's heels.

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You know, if one of the worst things to be said about the current dev team is that they don't think like munchkin powergamers, I don't know that I mind. Because, if this thread is to be believed, even if they don't think like munchkins, they listen to those of us who do.

That makes Wyrmy smile.

~Wyrm

p.s. am I the only one who thinks that Morgenstern is oddly quiet after his flurry of posts over the past couple of days? Speaking of people whose brains would fit the current testing well... I hope you got an invite into the closed beta last night, Morgy -- you more than deserved it after everything you posted.

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Ok, so I've seen lots of posts about people that discuss using the new consignment shop to transfer large amounts of influence between high and low level characters, but the impression I got from them was that they were talking about characters that were on the same server.

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We were, until we heard that it was cross-server. Now it's inf for your alts anywhere in the CoX-verse! Yaaaaay!

That is unless someone hijacks your trade.

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You know, if they're going to put in a system where it's possible to do this -- both transfer inf across servers, and hijack such transfers -- and they know both things are possible, why not just make a plain old cross-server inf transfer possible as well? Charge the same rate (5%) as for a sale, and remove the possibility of griefing.

If they know it can be done, they can assume it will be done -- so why not make it jerk-proof? I'd even pay a higher rate, as much as 7%, to be able to do the transfers without worrying where the inf might be going.

~Wyrm

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The Shivan Temp Power is AS blatantly overpowered as the Original Nemesis Staff before it was adjusted. Therefore, its introduction into the game as it is now was a MISTAKE in the same way that a hole in the geometry is a MISTAKE.

Using a MISTAKE in the code is the same no matter how you attempt to rationalize it. It's an exploit.

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Edited because, well, you already conceded the point I felt like arguing while I was typing the post, and I respect you too much to barrage you with more of the same.

~Wyrm

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Communication like this leads to honest evaluation of our tactics by both the devs and players.

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Communication like this discourages teaming and encourages a playstyle contrary to the game's design philosophy.

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Lets keep the feedback to the devs coming!

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If Ultimus wanted to give feedback to the devs, he'd use the PM feature of the boards. He's posting when it's very clear that the devs already know not only what he does, but exactly what tactics he uses. It's not "feedback" when you tell someone something they already know in a self-aggrandizing, public, way. It's boasting.

~Wyrm

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I still don't understand all the doom and gloom.
Oh noes, I can't get several sets out of all of them! I might as well just delete my 50 now!
Seriously, what's wrong with all the other stuff?

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Someone else has probably already answered this, but I'm not going to read all the way to the bottom and then forget to respond.

Nobody knows what "all the other stuff" is. That's the problem. People see this scenario and imagine the worst possible case -- that being, "The one thing that is absolutely perfect for my level 50, that fits so well with the concept, is the one thing I can't get. I don't know what it is yet, because the build isn't even on test -- but that will be the one thing I get locked out of."

That's why all the doom and gloom. Because we don't know what all the other stuff is that we will get, we worry and fret about what we imagine we won't.

~Wyrm

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Posi, any idea/workings on the bug of becoming disconnected from yourself?

As in:

You enter the mish. You move forward like normal. However, your teammates observe that you are still at the gate. Even though you are right next to an enemy, when you attack you get the message "out of range". Only way to fix is exit re-enter the mish, or get a teleport.

I have not suffered this as of yet, but i know of a few people who have on Victory.

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I actually saw that for the first time last night. GF was next to me on her screen, but still at the door on mine. When I tp'd her, she showed up on my screen.

Wierd. This was on Protector btw

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Had it happen on Virtue and Victory. Had it happen in almost every possible way you can zone. Had it happen on computers with 3 different nvidia cards and 1 ati card.

Still am not sure if anybody who's having the problem is using a non-linksys router, though.

It's bad enough that I had to respec my 42 scrapper so I could have recall friend to move my wife's character around/re-sync her when it happens to her (she already had recall friend on her defender, thankfully).

Burned a respec... to work around this bug.

Please. Add this to the priorities.

~Wyrm