DreadShinobi
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Thing is it is /not/ necessarily increasing the rate you can attack or the amount of DPS you deal. Since we're using FM as an example I'll just stick with that, in a Cremate>Incin>GFS you need 88, 146, and 237% rchg respectively for each of those powers. So for GFS, being the highest recharge requirement you will probably have 89% rchg from enhancements and 70% from hasten, meaning you need 78% from global recharge (not factoring in need for permahasten). If you have 78% global recharge+70% from hasten, that means you already have enough recharge for Cremate and Incinerate without slotting ANY recharge in those powers. Meaning if you do slot any recharge in Cremate or Incinerate (which you likely will for set bonuses) then you WILL BE HURTING YOUR DPS.Originally Posted by Roderick
Spiritual is reducing the proc chance, but it's increasing the number of times you can use the attack, raising both the damage from the attack, and the number of rolls being made. It is very possible that slotting Spiritual will increase your DPS, even with the reduced proc chance. If it DOES reduce your DPS, then slot a different Alpha instead.
There are already numerous things I can do to my build that improve performance one way while decreasing it another. Why is it so horrible that they add somewhere else that you need to make a choice?
Adding Spiritual to the above scenario will only make it worse, since you're now putting more rchg into GFS that could have been gotten via set bonuses that wouldn't hurt your proc rate and will flat out be hurting your cremate and incinerate from the get go because they don't need any recharge. This isn't just limited to Fire Melee, it affects every powerset out there. -
Quote:Crabs aren't sacks of hp on legs.Originally Posted by Wolf_Reign
I'd argue that PB's are better.
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Quote:It is harming the build in relation to a build with Spiritual vs one without spiritual.Originally Posted by Roderick
Your proc chance is more than doubling (33% to 71% and 20% to 47%). How is this "harming" your build? You're getting a slightly smaller buff than you could if you made a different build choice, but it's still a significant buff.
My example has nothing to do with a nerf/buff in regards to previous(live) numbers, though it should be noted that the power used in the example (GFS) is a power that naturally benefits from the change to PPMs having a 12 second recharge and 2.5s animation.
In this case, Spiritual reduces the chance you will get a purple proc in GFS by 10% and 7% of a normal proc. -
Quote:That depends on your definition of duoing. I've duo'd the Hollows trial before with 2 people on the trial each logging in 4 toons for the simul clicks.Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Not every TF can be duo'd, let alone solo'd. There are some with simul-clicks, such as the Hollows trial and one of the Shadow Shard TFs.
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Quote:Thing is though there is NO penalty for taking any other alpha.Originally Posted by Zyphoid
Rather fair question. I would guess though it is because Alpha acts as an extra slotted enhancement. Where as, things like LoTG, and Hasten do not.
Should the amount of damage that the proc does be reduced by the amount of dmg you have slotted in your power? (making musculature/inuition a penalty alongside spiritual/agility) No. That would be stupid, it would be just as bad as it is for spiritual/agility reducing the effectiveness of procs. -
Without actually looking into the slotting of your build, I would suggest Dark Mastery over Psi.
Perma soul drain adds a ton of dps. The combined slows of Tar Patch+RoF will melt mobs before they really have time to get outside of the deathzone. Soul Drain will make those slows exponentially better as they will need to be inside the patch for much less time as they will be dieing much faster. Dark Embrace is also a solid shield to stack in with Shadowfall and it also offers a +end click on a long rchg or a pbaoe stun aura which quite nice by itself and even better in that it can stack with howling twilight for an aoe mag 4 stun. -
Quote:Yep. It is.Originally Posted by Dz131
I'd also take flares over fireblast. IIRC it's better dpa
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Every tf in this game is can be easily duo'd (especially when you're talking a scrapper+ill/rad troller duo). Most tfs are easily solo'able. All TFs are soloable, but some of the higher end ones can be quite difficult when solo.
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Quote:As Kyriani said, that's not really an option when you're going for set bonuses. Recharge is internally integrated into sets, it's not something you can just extract all by itself.Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Or, if you take Spiritual/Agility, you could remove any recharge enhancements in the powers that have procs.
Best case scenario you're 5 slotting, say, Hecatombs, you could change the dmg/rchg and replace it with the dmg. That would drop it down from 126 to 104, but that's still higher than what it would be without a Recharge alpha (89%).
However what if you need to 6 slot that set for your set bonuses, Then you're screwed, there is nothing that you would be able to remove without breaking your set bonus.
What you're saying wouldn't work. -
Quote:I only have 2 concerns left about this change.Originally Posted by Synapse
This was the feedback that I received repeatedly from you all during this thread. Which is why we've decided to only use recharge on a power from enhancement sources and alpha slots. Global recharge will not reduce proc chance. Take a look at previous posts for all the details
EDIT: Curses! Scooped by Sanguine Sentinel!
1) A significantly lower proc floor chance for higher PPMs relative to their original proc values in comparison to the proc floor chance for low PPMs relative to their original proc values.
--For example the proc floor of a 15% proc is 64.4% of it's original value, wheras the proc floor of a 33% proc is 40.72% of it's original value.
2) Spiritual and Agility alpha significantly harming proc rates for characters that took them.
--For example Greater Fire Sword with 89.9%% Recharge and a Hecatomb and Mako proc will have 81% and 54% chances to proc, respectively. With T4 Spiritual Alpha and those same circumstances it would only have 71% and 47% chance to proc respectively.
In many cases where I have taken Spiritual or Agility alpha I could be better off just building for more global recharge and picking a different alpha.
Any thoughts on these two issues Synapse? -
Quote:Probably. That's how most things tend to get fixed.Originally Posted by BrandX
I don't know. I expect it'll be fixed when out of the blue. Like a suprise for many KM users!
"Oh hey! Look! We fixed this long standing bug!"
Kinda like the Hami-O bugs
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Quote:I sort of semi expected it wasn't WAI, but being unfixed for so long you begin to grow to the assumption that they don't think it's so horrendously broken that it doesn't need to be fixed, especially as it does make up for KM's lacking in other areas. When was KM released? Something like i16 with GR i think?Originally Posted by Siolfir
First, a tangent on KM:
Both the current and previous "head powers" developers (Castle and Synapse) have posted that the 100% chance to critical from hidden status in Burst is a bug and will be fixed. Castle did it publicly in a forum post, Synapse responded in a PM asking if all AoEs could be given the same treatment since it works so well for KM (and the APP Fireball) by stating that neither should have the 100% critical and both would eventually be fixed. Just a heads up for anyone who takes KM thinking that Burst makes it a good AoE set.
Currently I'd say KM's 100% crit will be staying for a while. The only thing I wouldn't count on staying is the AS animation imbalance in AS. KM's is something like 0.67 iirc, which is below brawl animation, whereas others are around 1 second higher than it, and synapse did say that he was going to bring them all to a 1s animation. -
I wonder when we'll get Genesis, I wish he said something about that D:
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Quote:Can you run those calculations again as if you were using T4 Spiritual?Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Re: Spiritual/Agility - unless you're already using PPM enhancements you'll almost certainly still come out ahead in most cases.
I just checked out of curiosity what my FM/SD Scrapper's attacks would look like post-changes.
Cremate with 66.25% +Recharge and a Mako proc will have a 39% chance to proc.
Incinerate with 96.4% Recharge and a Mako proc will have a 42% chance to proc.
Greater Fire Sword with 89.9%% Recharge and a Hecatomb and Mako proc will have 81% and 54% chances to proc, respectively
Fire Sword Circle with 89.9% Recharge and an Armageddon and Obliteration proc will have 58% and 39% chances to proc, respectively
Shield Charge with 89.9% Recharge and an Obliteration proc will have a capped 90% chance to proc (uncapped chance of 94%).
That would mean 126.16 rchg in FSC, GFS, and SC. 128.65 rchg in Incin. And 110.13 rchg in Cremate. -
Because they're all around just average, and in no way exceptional.
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Quote:And anyone who uses spiritual or agility.Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar
Based on the numbers we've been seeing so far, only the most egregious outliers are going to actually be nerfed, Kyriani.
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Quote:I'm really hoping the 3rd set of ATOs (the 2nd is already accounted for) will focus on AT secondaries. Or rather just sets that are slotted in non-attacks.Originally Posted by Agent White
Yeah I'd rather just see additional sets.
Though sadly it seems like their current agenda is just to add more ATOs. Not that I dislike the ATOs, but they are fairly limited in use.
def/res/heal/etc for brutes/tankers/stalkers/scrappers/khelds/arachnos
tohit buff/tohit debuff/heal/def debuff/def buff/slow/etc for corrs/defs/trollers/mms
dmg for doms
You can only have so many sets that enhance your attacks before there is no more room for them, or they just start directly replacing eachother. -
Quote:It depends and not necessarily.Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Ninjas survive better when you use Provoke.
For example on a nin/dark (dark is another decent choice for ninjas btw, though I would still say Time is better) you will take the alpha, then by the time they will even consider attacking your ninjas they will be debuffed enough that it really doesn't matter. Time will produce a similar effect while Farsighted Ninjas and TJ'd enemies. The most important part is that you take the alpha, after that it really doesn't matter. -
It will be whenever you plan on running a Numina TF. /trollface
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Quote:Stone Brutes aren't popular anymore, therefore that proc isn't popular anymore, whether it's unique or useful or not isn't really relevant because the only thing that would actually invest in them is a powerset that is about as popular as Energy Melee.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Of course, the king of what the heck isn't a chance proc: its Gift of the Ancients Def/+7.5% run speed, each of which adds 1.07 mph to your running speed. Fortunately, I convinced Castle during I9 beta to change it from being Unique. You're welcome.
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Fire/Ice Blaster will have very strong and consistant dps throughout it's career. Survivability will become tougher around 35+ when more mezzes come into play, learning to get maximum use out of your inspiration tray is a large portion of what it means to being a good blaster.
Fire/Icy Dom will have great survivability all the way to 50 and good damage, especially once you get your t8 and t9 attacks. At lvl 41 you can pick up Sleet which is AMAZING for doms, and it's easily like having a whole nother secondary powerset alongside your other 2, it basically turns you into a corr with huge control. You can get Sleet earlier but that means delaying your 2 best ST attacks from Icy.
Fire/Cold is an anomaly. It will easily be the weakest of the 3 until lvl 35 when it gets sleet at which point it will be keeping pace. Fire/Cold is something you definitely want to level up on teams more than solo, both before level 35 (because you will be rather squishy without damage modifiers) and after level 35 (because you will make teams steamroll with sleet, HL, and Shields). Fire/Cold will unarguably be the strongest of the 3 at lvl 50 with IOing.
Essentially:
lvl 1-35 Blaster>Dom>Corr
lvl 35-41 Corr>Dom>Blaster
lvl 41-50 Dom>Corr>Blaster
lvl 50 IO'd Corr>Dom>Blaster
Fire/Cold Corr is my absolute favorite toon to play, but before lvl 35 they're pretty ick. -
The only real benefit is that you can't access your toons on that server if you ever let your account lapse.
Benefit....
.......O wait. -
Quote:I'd like to see the proc floor raised a bit as well. Synapse has stated that there are very few powers that actually hit that proc floor, but that's because the proc floor is so low.Originally Posted by Morganite
Although I do hope the floor ends up a bit higher than last proposed, or it could end up pretty hard to play my Elec/Rad controller...
Current floor is 1.5(Current PPM*1.25)+5
5% proc (1 PPM) ----------------> 6.875% -----------> (137% of original)
15% proc (2.5 PPM) ------------>9.6875% ----------> (64.6% of original)
20% proc (3 PPM) --------------> 10.625% ----------> (53.125% of original)
25% purple proc (3.5 PPM) ----> 11.5625% --------> (46.25% of original)
33% purple proc (4.5 PPM) ----> 13.4375% --------> (40.72% of original)
The issue I see here is that the minimum proc chance is much better for low proc IOs but strictly worse for higher proc chance IOs such as purples.
What I feel it should be is 3(Current PPM*1.25)+0
5% proc (1 PPM) ----------------> 3.75% ---------> 75% of original
15% proc (2.5 PPM) ------------> 9.375% ------> 62.5% of original
20% proc (3 PPM) --------------> 11.25% -------> 56.25% of original
25% purple proc (3.5 PPM) ----> 13.125 --------> 52.5% of original
33% purple proc (4.5 PPM) ----> 16.875---------> 51.136% of original
TBH, I'd prefer that modifier to be 3.5 rather than 3, or heck even 4, however I think 3 is the best way to get it looked at seriously. The main thing is that minimum proc rate is more even between PPM levels and never dips below 50% of the original proc chance. It would be slightly better for procs that were originally 20%/3 PPM or higher, about even for 15%/2.5 PPM, and slightly worse for 5%/1 PPM, though I think the last is well justified as I don't think the minimum should really be higher than the original proc chance.
If I made any math mistakes please let me know.
edit: Just for gits and shiggles,
3.5(Current PPM*1.25)+0 would look like this:
5% proc (1 PPM) ----------------> 4.375% -----------> 87.5% of original
15% proc (2.5 PPM) ------------> 10.9375% --------> 72.92% of original
20% proc (3 PPM) --------------> 13.125% ----------> 65.625% of original
25% purple proc (3.5 PPM) ----> 15.3125% --------> 61.25% of original
33% purple proc (4.5 PPM) ----> 19.6875% ---------> 59.66% of original
These would be my preffered numbers.
edit2: on the contrary to this, just making the minimum be 66% of the original proc value would work just as well or better. -
Quote:The calculations are based off enhanced power recharge not global recharge. Which means ANY build using procs will be affected by this change, not just those that are min/maxed.Originally Posted by Greyhame
A little perspective is in order here. This change leaves 99.999% of the game unaffected. It only affects procs. It only heavily affects super IO'd builds that also have perfectly calculated attack chains (a tiny minority), and those attack chains are mostly a solo or single target thing. On a more chaotic team or aoe basis (which is most of the game) those chains are less used/useful.
I'd bet that most players won't even notice the change. -
Quote:This. Incarnate softcap is overrated.Originally Posted by Hopeling
Nevertheless, my regular-softcapped characters seem to be doing fine in DA.