Deus_Otiosus
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Posts
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Quote:I'm not sure what you think you're proving, I just said I don't think you need either of those powers.Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Except you can build an effective Dark Armor tank without Oppressive Gloom. I offer proof of that with all four blueside Mo* badges, and I just recently posted a screenshot of my Dark Armor tank holding the aggro of four AVs in addition to Reichsman.
Let me guess, you built for Defenses. You know, the stuff that Maneuvers and Mind Link provide to the whole team.
Really? There are IOs that will allow you to grant +25%+ Defenses to your entire team? (25%+ is ML + TT: M)Quote:Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
The reason I bring all this up is because you can build an effective Widow without TT:maneuvers. -
Quote:That's a different case, as Tankers are not specifically control oriented (it does encompass a part of their role though).Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Deus,
How do you feel about the control auras on a Dark Armor tank? Seeing as they provide protection to the team in the form of control/debuff and taunt and provide solid mitigation to the tank itself, at least one of the two should be essential, right?
They are also difficult to run for a build that isn't prepared for it, and not effective vs. everything (read: cimerorans).
They also do not provide the same kind of teamwide protection, with the ease of use of TT: Maneuvers or Mind Link.
(Dark) Tankers also have other options to "control" mobs - specifically leveraging their taunt aura, using the Taunt power if they have it, and Gauntlet.
We're talking about support powers, on a set of ATs that have support as part of their focus.
And we're talking about powers that were specifically revamped from the pool powers to be better, and more effective and part of the overall design and impact of VEATs.
Tankers are not specifically support in terms of providing buffs/debuffs - and no one expects that from them when they join a team.
Instead I'll ask you if it's important to take RttC on a WP Tanker or whether you feel that power is skippable - because that's how important TT: Maneuvers and ML are (and I'm pretty sure you recognize them as such, you just want to play this game that it isn't for some reason). -
Quote:Some sets have more important powers than others, so it depends on the set.Originally Posted by FireWyvern
How many powers can be considered "important" in a set?
I know you want to find some way to prove that considering TT: Maneuvers as important is subjective, but it simply isn't.
At some point a player has to accept that some powers are simply large and away better choices than others.
If you want to work out a widow build that does not take either Mind Link nor TT: Maneuvers and explain why you think it's a better build for not having those - I'll be happy to read it.
Be prepared to explain why adding to your own personal survival capabilities, and the survival capabilities of your team mates isn't important.
Because it creates a neutral playing field for a build with vs. a build without the powers in question.Quote:Originally Posted by Frogfather
Fair enough...but I would ask, why is this arbitrary equally skilled players such a stickler for you?
Otherwise, I'd be free to use an opposing assumption to yours stating that the player with the better build is most probably a better player overall as they have a better understand of game mechanics.
Quote:Originally Posted by Frogfather
All things being equal obviously I would rather have the team buffs than not,
Then you're a rational player.
You can try to help FireWyvern in developing a Widow build that is simply much better off, or has the capability to be played better due to the fact that it does not have Mind Link or TT: Maneuvers.
We're not even going to touch Crabs, I was going to make a statement about it, but I'll just use an excerpt from Lobster's Guide to Crabbing from the guides here in the SoA forum.
Quote:Originally Posted by Lobster1.10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers (TT:M)
In my opinion, this IS the defining power of the Crabs. The sheer awesomeness that 3 Crabs can bring to a team by capping everyones defenses is, well, awesome.
It is a toggle defense VERSUS EVERYTHING power that applies to yourself and any teammate within 60ft (a much larger radius than the Force Field bubble toggle). Slotted, it is slightly stronger than an unslotted Super Reflexes toggle. If you've made it to 50 on a villain and don't realize how powerful that is, I suggest playing a defense based character to 50, then coming back to your Crab.
It (and the other two TT powers) are VERY cheap to run. All 3 together cost less than the Mastermind version of Dispersion Bubble and just a little bit more than the defender version). So, by itself, for about 40% of the cost of Defender Dispersion Bubble, you can provide the SAME defense over 140% larger area. The larger area is a great boon in teams when your teammates are actually free to fan out a bit, and you don't have to stay right on top of them, or scramble around to try and keep everyone covered. True, it does NOT provide ANY mez protection for the team, but that's hardly a gripe.
Simple summary: Slotted, it's like running all 3 SR toggles (unslotted) for your entire team. If you don't take this, don't expect to be welcomed on to teams.
You should take this at level 10, every time, no excuses. -
With RTTC running and 10 mobs in range, I would aim for 1000%.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Tenzhi
What constitutes an "important skill" can be pretty subjective.
Only to people who have no idea what they are talking about. -
Quote:The difference is that this is a dumb, stacked example specifically fabricated to make your point seem like it make sense.Originally Posted by Frogfather
2. Whats the difference between a well-played aggressive anticipatory build with poor teaming choices and a poorly played team oriented build in terms of xp?
Don't worry, you're not the only one in the thread who keeps perpetrating this myth of the 'awesomely played' no maneuvers widow vs. the poorly played well built widow.
Of course, then you could have the VEAT who does all that AND has a giant +DEF buff for themselves as well as the team.Quote:Originally Posted by Bru_Tal
And what if that guy who doesnt have TT:M contributes in other ways? Say he can rip down a pack of 6 by himself with build up : venom grenade : frag grenade : heavy burst... ?
He's not giving himself a bonus either, he has less defense than he could.Quote:Originally Posted by Bru_Tal
But since he isnt giving YOU a bonus, he isnt good? He isnt contributing (even though he IS), or at least not YOUR way, so again, he's no good?
How is not helping yourself out with a huge freaking defense bonus not good for you solo?
Here's a little run down, in case people aren't aware of the actual numbers.
The Widow version of TT: Manuvers adds more DEF for less endurance cost than Weave does for Scrappers & Brutes - and an equal amount as it would for the Widow.
On top of that it grants this defense to the entire team.
Wait it gets better.
If you happen to have other VEATs, it stacks.
The Soldier version grants double that.
So you have Weave or better +Def without needing Boxing or Tough, you can take it at level 10, costs you less endurance than weave and provides that defense to your entire team as well. -
Quote:I'll just say that from my limited experience playing stalker (nothing above L20), using AS on anything less than a boss is often a waste of time.Originally Posted by New Dawn
One change I think is useful is if people don't share a target with a stalker unless it is of a very high rank. Hitting something that is about to be AS'd is a waste of time.
The only exception would be trouble mobs like sappers or nullifiers for example.
I think the most useful thing would be for someone on the forums both good with attack chains, DPS calculations as well as an appreciation for the AT to put out some decent numbers on what the various stalker primaries are capable of. -
Quote:I wouldn't worry about enhancing the heal too much.Originally Posted by Lunarion
I was looking at perhaps doing 2 of the Miracle set and then 4 Cloud Senses originally, so it's good to see that I was at least on the right track.
Dark Servant will be spamming Twilight's Grasp, and so will you. It's a pretty powerful hel right out of the box.
If you do go this route, I prefer the accurate healing sets. -
Yes, having pets at the BM is bad manners.
I wish more MMs would use the "Go to" or "stay" commands, it's not even necessary to dismiss them. -
I think there are several factors that all contribute to why Stalkers are generally passed over for other ATs on teams.
- Previously held (pre i12 changes) opinions.
- Perceived or factual PvP over PvE role. (I’ve had many stalkers join teams only to mention they were PvP builds, this doesn’t help the reputation of the AT).
- Overall lack of AoE damage for most primaries.
- Very specialized role, in a Hybrid teaming environment. CoV PUGs can be very powerful, but can also be fragile at times. Not taking an AT that performs multiple roles can weaken some teams.
- On top of this “boss killer” as part of that specialized role is not often sought for or needed on a full team of ATs that all have damage dealing capabilities + another area of focus.
- Lack of overall knowledge in game and on the forums with hard numbers (or even rough estimates) on Stalker DPS capabilities solo or on teams. “Stalkers do more damage than X AT in X situation.” – How much more? Is it enough damage to make them competitive with other ATs to teams?
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Quote:Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
Ok, time to watch my rep go in the tank. I'm in the minority here to a point. I would kick somoene for not having ceartain powers at higher levels.
Examples are:
Any bubbler without bubbles.
A kin without FS. No SB is ok in my book but it would be nice to have.
Any scrapper, tank, brute or stalker that did not take mez protection.
Any MM without pets.
Any Defender with only one attack.
Any VEAT that did not take TT:Manuvers.
Now with that being said, let me qualify my position a bit. Bubblers without bubbles I would ask them if they have a second build better suited for teams, if not, bye bye after the mission.
In addition, I would not kick a newer player with only a few vet badges for those reasons. I would try to educate them on better options. However if they have 3 years + of vet badges, to me this tells me they either purchased the account from someone else, are borrowing the account from somone else, or they do not know how to play the game even with 3 years of practice. And I just don't want to have to deal with any of those types of people. Even if you have never played a certain AT or played very little, after 3+ years of being on teams with others, you should be able to pick up what is needed to be successful.
I agree with this completely.
Unfortunately, you stand a good chance of now being labeled a build nazi as I was.
This is because people think it's ridiculous for you to expect players to come to the table with a build intended for teaming, and a team focused approach to playing when they want to join a team.
On a side note, I'd be much happier if veteran players would send you a tell that their build has skipped X, knowing it's an important skill - I'd even be more apt to invite them since they were upfront with me.
I find that in the majority of the cases, it simply doesn't happen.
Not letting the team know beforehand is deceptive, and selfish.
Basically from my perspective, they want on a team to reap the rewards of teaming (faster XP, merits, etc.) but were unwilling to build for it, as well as unwilling to be upfront about the build decisions they made skipping powers widely considered essential. (Obviously if this is a new player, this isn't the case, I'm much more lenient with new players.) -
Quote:I think slotting for -To Hit is the most valuable thing you can slot for.Originally Posted by Lunarion
I stumbled upon the Mid's tool which has been such a huge help. Anyways, this is my current build. I'm mostly hoping for some ideas regarding Dark Servant slotting, but any other suggestions would be appreciated as well.
Thank you in advance.
That being said, we want Dark Servant to hit with it's attacks, so that leaves Accurate To Hit Debuffs as our prime category.
Out of that category you have two choices:
1) Cloud Senses: Slightly expensive, lower enhancement values but fantastic set bonuses (+End, +Rech, +Ranged Def).
2) Siphon Insight: Cheap, better enhancement values, overall less bang for your buck in terms of set bonuses. Enhances +SM/L def, good for builds that choose Black Scorp PPP.
I would choose based on if you want a SM/L def build or a Ranged DEF build.
Side note: The Gladiator Unique you have slotted will most probably cost you minimum 2 billion infamy. -
Quote:I don't have any hard numbers, but it seems to me that the amount of energy only or negative only damaging attacks are fairly rare overall (i.e. ones that do not have a SM or L component).Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I usually focus on E/Ne defense on WP builds.
With Tough and Mind Over Body and regeneration I don't have to worry so much about S/L
When they do come, they don't often come in enough quantity to overwhelm the regen on a well built WP.
So I generally try to focus on SM/L to get as much coverage as possible, and try to get ENE/NEG/Fire/Cold into the 25-30% range.
Eradication is a great set, for the reasons you mentioned. If you're going for as much defenses as possible.
However, I much prefer Oblit x5 or Armageddon x5 in Footstomp specifically, as you really do want the 6th slot to be the Force Feedback Proc. -
Quote:Gotcha.Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
Nor do I. I was just doing what I could to stick to the same powers as the original post by BloodFury and make minor improvements to HP and regen.
Quote:Originally Posted by Shidosha
Slotting for typed defense bonuses is not nearly as efficient as slotting for positional defense bonuses.
This is my build, copied from http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=205947
1) That slotting is terrible.
2) Focusing on positional defenses only, you ended up with more Typed defenses in every single area except melee, which you only got an extra 2%.
That should tell you of how bad an option it is to go for positional defenses on a Willpower build.
Willpower gets typed defenses to build off of, make use of it. -
Quote:Um..no.Originally Posted by Neutrino_Siphon
So, by this logic, my L50 IO'd for +HP +Regen and +Def Claws/WP Scrapper is more gimp than a legless horse and a complete failure as a team character because I (95% of the time) can run off on my own in 8-man missions set on as high as +3 and survive? Because I'm not built for "team play?"
Because your Scrapper's job on a team is to survive and deal damage.
Which it apparently does.
If you decided to skip all of your defense toggles, including indomitable will - or perhaps that Rise to the Challenge didn't fit your concept and decided to skip it - then yes, you would fall into the category I described. -
Quote:Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Punch -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(3), P'ngS'Fest-Stun%(7), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(9)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal(5), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(11), ImpArm-ResDam(11), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(13), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(13)
Level 2: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(5), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), RgnTis-Regen+(17), Mrcl-Rcvry+(27), Mrcl-Heal(29)
Level 6: Air Superiority -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(19), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Mako-Acc/Dmg(21)
Level 8: Knockout Blow -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(9), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(23), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 12: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 14: Boxing -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(25), Numna-Heal/Rchg(25), HO:Golgi(27)
Level 18: Mind Over Body -- TtmC'tng-ResDam(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(29), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(31), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(31)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(31), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(33), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(33)
Level 22: Health -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(37), Numna-Heal(37)
Level 24: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(A), Efficacy-EndMod(40), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(40)
Level 26: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(46), GSFC-Build%(46)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(34), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(34), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), Armgdn-Dam%(36)
Level 35: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(36), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(36), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50), RctvArm-EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(39), LkGmblr-Def(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), EndRdx-I(40)
Level 41: Gloom -- Apoc-Dmg(A), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Apoc-Dam%(43), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 44: Resurgence -- RechRdx(A)
Level 47: Dark Obliteration -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 49: Strength of Will -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 0: Ninja Run
I've looked at this build in Mids, and I have to say I really don't understand the build goals at all. -
Quote:And there is a legion of Scrappers frothing at the bit to get their hands on Gloom.Originally Posted by tarrantm
I also wish there was more parity between the Brute and Scrapper *PPs. I'd love to have Physical Perfection for my /Dark Brute
It works both ways. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Silas
That's a good point actually, I've since picked up Frostwork in my new build. It's only 1 slotted but it's a decent power. Hell, one of the best things about it is that its fine with the base slot.
Once I'm done reformatting all the guides I'm gonna go back over them and edit/update them. There's a fair bit of information in some of them which I've changed my mind on/am flat out wrong about.
Sounds good, I look forward to the updates. -
Quote:I laugh when stuff dies faster than it should, when missions and TFs are completed in half the time or less than it takes others to do it.Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
When I'm playing a game, I measure efficiency and effectiveness in laughs per minute, not DPS.
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Quote:Good catch.Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Only the -ToHit, the -Damage isn't affected by the magic -85% AV thing. All that resists the -damage is the AVs own Damage Resistance.*
However the OP is focused on a +Defense aspect of his build, using Darkest Night only for AVs and I think GMs will not provide the -To Hit to make up for being below softcap.
It will however, allow for some amazing things against very troublesome mobs typically the ones with heavy debuffs, which can easily foil a Willpower Brute. -
Quote:Sorry, I should have been clearer. I didn't mean to say that you claimed I did, I was simply stating the fact that I don't dictate either (which is the word I should have added in the first place).Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I'd like you go back, and re-read my posts in this thread and quote where I claimed that you dictate how people should play solo or on other teams.
I merely refuted your classification of me.
From an efficiency and effectiveness standpoint, you would not be better off with them.Quote:Originally Posted by Dechs KaisonI'd be better off with them because we'd still have fun.
I'm curious, how far does your leniency go?
Are you happy to have players join your team and door sit while you do all of the work? Because bringing a build that doesn't pull it's fair share of weight is akin to that in my eyes. -
Quote:Don't think of it as a hinderance, think of it as build priority.Originally Posted by beowulf2010
Basically, where abouts does more +Def stop being a help to Willpower and start being a hiderence? Oh, I should mention my char is SS/WP/Soul but would prefer to not to need to use Darkest Night on anything except AVs and GMs.
Anywhere from 20-30% is probably a decent base range which will allow you to be more flexibile with power choices or to focus on more recharge (i.e. better DPS).
That being said, you can softcap to SM/L without gimping, or hindering your character, it will just require sacrifices elsewhere.
On Darkest Night: Darkest Night is an AoE defense tool, it's meant to be used in that capacity and will provide survivability to you and your team. It's also useful against single hard targets like Bosses and EBs, but in most situation those shouldn't give you much trouble anyway.
AVs however will reduce the debuff amounts so drastically as to make Darkest Night not nearly as valuable.
I use Darkest Night against "trouble" mobs like Longbow, Arachnos, Cimerorans and Malta.
It allows my build to run with "only" 30% SM/L/Ene/Neg defense and solo something like the ITF cyst mission. -
Quote:All of those sets were focused on increasing HP primarily, which is part of what the OP was originally looking for (a way to increase regen, which is what +HP does and does better than simply adding +regen bonuses).Originally Posted by EricHough
Those are all very expensive sets, if you want to go a little cheaper try the following:
And just to clarify, my point is that instead of chasing +regen bonuses (which are extremely tiny), that WP brutes should get more +HP Bonuses - because they increase your regen while also increasing the amount of damage you can absorb.Quote:Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
Only one person so far said to not focus on regen. I tend to get my regen as high as possible with +regen and +HP.
They way I choose what I'm going to add is by checking each item individually in mids, and for a WP build, tiny regen bonuses generally aren't worth it (if you get them incidentally, it's gravy on top, but I don't look to add them specifically).
They will add nowhere near the survivability that +HP or +DEF will. It's not even remotely close.
Unfortunately I can't access mids at the moment, I'll post some examples later today. -
Quote:I don't dictate how people should play, solo or on other people's teams.Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
No, I'm from the "What right to I have to dictate how someone else spends their $15/month" style of playing.
Different comes in the form of different ATs and different powersets. I haven't said at any point that I am against this.Quote:Originally Posted by Aluminum_Dave
First: If I wanted no diversity or indivituality I would play HALO (more than I do)or some game where everyone has the same powers and looks. All those reasons you listed as "Soap Box" issues are a huge percentage of the reasons that we have so many players in this game. Different is good for many people.
Not taking a power that provides gigantic leap in survivability for yourself as well as your team, doesn't have anything to do with diversity.
The team is worse of for having added a player who has built their support focused AT without the support.Quote:Originally Posted by Aluminum_Dave
It doesn't affect anyone negatively if the powers are not taken. It just doesn't make them any better. You do not lose defense by not taking TT: Maneuvers, you just don't gain it. You are no worse off that before you had the teamate.
Let me know how many "bubble-less" Force Field defenders you'd like to have on your team, and explain why you'd be better off with that player as opposed to someone who has a proper build.
Please refrain from talking about player skill, as this assumes even skill, and in a case of even skill the player with the better build provides more to the team.
But you and everyone else arguing on your side will probably be happy to invite that Scrapper that decided not to take any of his defensive or mez toggles due to some unfathomable "concept" that requires them to be awful. -
Quote:Ah so you're from the "I will play what I want, when I want, how I want and I don't care how it affects anyone else" style of playing and character building?Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Yes.
Quote:Originally Posted by Aluminum_Dave
I understand that as a team you are working together towards a common goal. The thing is that the goal can be achieved in so many different ways in this game that, with very, very few exceptions, no power or powerset is required for anything.
I said that I don't want to team with people who are so selfish they refuse to take and use team focused buffs on a team focused AT, and still expect people to welcome them on teams when they are being invited most likely because that AT has those awesome Team buffs.
It really has nothing to do with diversity, or equality, or individuality or freedom or any other soap box issue.
It has to do with demonstrating you are a team player.
I don't care if your Widow took FU over BU or vice versa, I don't care if you took smoke grenades because you think they are useful and fun.
But there is no reason other than stubborn selfishness or complete ignorance to skip TT: Maneuvers and Mind Link on a Widow.
Ignorant players can be educated, stubbornly selfish players who are basically thumbing their nose at reason because it's apparently fun to suck, are hopeless cases.