Desmodos

He was about 15 mins late, maybe less.

The crash seems to happen before the pop up window. It's happened to me once or twice but I've seen it happen many more time to others. It's always while exiting the last mission. Instead of zoning out of the mission, you just crash. Usually, the pop up window opens after you've exited the mission, at least on my end.

The TF went relatively smoothly. 2 hours 10 mins. 28 deaths but sadly I can't claim all of them, maybe 5-7 of them. Most the deaths occurred while "stealthing" since none of us actually had stealth.

Fair enough. I did take little as sarcasm, hence the italics.

I see what you are getting at. A reasonable conclusion, but I will point out that was the same logic used to claim Issue 16 would be Going Rogue.

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Folks need to keep in mind that everything regarding Going Rogue was leaked prematurely.

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A day prematurely... I still expected a 2009 GR release until this announcement.

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Not sure where you got a day from. The impression I got was it was months prematurely.

Sorry, I wasn't specifying any rules for Madame Pistcio's event. My comments were regarding gladiators in general. I wasn't sure if you could hand them skittles anymore, I have not done a serious Gladiator match in quite some time.

Folks need to keep in mind that everything regarding Going Rogue was leaked prematurely. The devs never intended for us to know about it this early. Before the whole email/link code thing, most folks pretty much expected Going Rogue to be a post-2010 thing. I would have been very surprised had Issue 16 actually included Going Rogue.

Now I'm probably being silly with this, but seems to me CoH follows a pattern of 3 and 6 with significant issues. Granted Issue 15 is looking kind of meh ATM, I'm still thinking Going Rogue will be a Issue 18 or Issue 21 thing. Issue 18 could be a late 2010/early 2011 release...maybe. On the other hand, we know about CoV for 2 years before it was released?

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I don't know why anyone would think i16 would be ROGUE. Issues are do not cost extra and have to be given to subscribers so the game is updated for all. Expansions are what you have to pay for if you want that additional content. So, issues are essential and expansions are optional, if I am not mistaken

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Except, at least in the only previous example for this game, even if one did not purchase CoV, everyone's game was updated, like an issue, when i6, "Along Came a Spider (CoV launch)" came about; even if you didn't buy CoV, your game had to be updated to include:

<ul type="square">[*]SG portals in all non-hazard zones[*] SG beacons for the explores in a zone[*] the PvP zone doors and PvP zones themselves[*] the stupid "Hey there, newbie. Why don't you go trek across 4 zones to talk to the doorman to this pvp zone before I let you fight crime?"[/list]
Based on that, I would think it wouldn't be completely out of range to assume that Rogue was i16. Well.. that and the whole e-mail link thing.

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Unless I'm remembering this incorrectly, nothing regarding bases could be accessed without the purchase of CoV. A lot of player whom had no interest in playing a villain purchased CoV solely for access to bases. I also recall telling folks, just base it, only to find you they could not because they never purchased CoV. This remained the case until the split from Cryptic Studios was officially announced.

GP, gladiators pretty much work exactly like MM pets. I don't think you can feed them skittle or anything. Basically, you control the gladiators, that's it. None of your powers work and you can't attack the player's themselves. Only the Gladiators get attacked or can attack, but Gladiators will buff each other.

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I personally choose to focus on acc, end.red. and the -to hit aspects of CoF.

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Good advice. Incidentally, a great way to pick MAX end bonuses as well.

I'm in.

I'll be on a scrapper there are requests for otherwise.

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~ Do people think /DA running all toggles is more powerful or useful as a whole package than the other scrapper secondaries? Considering how hard it is to do a straight comparison because of the dramatic differences between sets, does DA *feel* more powerful than the other scrapper secondaries?

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You are going to have to define what you mean by more "poweful". That term is too generic and exceptionally circumstantial.

There are missions and situations where Dark Armor feels like the equivolent of toilet paper. Other scenarios I thank the stars I'm on a Dark Armor character.

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er...what?

dark armor on a tanker costs 0.21 eps for 30% smash/lethal

willpower on a tanker costs 0.21 eps for 30% smash/lethal

you forgot to add in hpt which is passive 7.5% resist to all

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Where are you getting your numbers from?

Will Power gets 30% resistance by combining HPT and Mind Over Body. With out HPT, MoB only gives Will Power 22.5% S/L resistance.

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what is 22.5% + 7.5%?


give it a minute...

unless you want to attempt to tell me or anyone else that any willpower anything ever skips hpt, because that would not be a good idea.

open up mids and look at the totals page doing the following

dark armor - dark embrace, murky cloud, obsidian shield, cloak of darkness, tough, weave running only

willpower - hpt (why does mids give you an option to turn it off?), mind over body, fast healing (again why an option to turn off a passive?), IW, tough, weave, heightened senses, QR


look closely at the resistances and defense, but also look at the eps cost, the recovery rate and the regen rate.


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Jupitermoon, no body enjoys playing Dark Armor more than I do, but we need to be reasonable. In the spirit of 'balance' you cannot begin comparing a single toggle from one set to a toggle and passive from another. It hurts your position when both toggles in question cost the same amount endurance. Your argument would basically call for a nerf to Dark Embrace.

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er...what?

dark armor on a tanker costs 0.21 eps for 30% smash/lethal

willpower on a tanker costs 0.21 eps for 30% smash/lethal

you forgot to add in hpt which is passive 7.5% resist to all

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Where are you getting your numbers from?

Will Power gets 30% resistance by combining HPT and Mind Over Body. With out HPT, MoB only gives Will Power 22.5% S/L resistance.

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Here's a question: do people feel that the other scrapper secondaries are intended to run all their defensive toggles?

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Originally, no. Currently, yes.

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If so, do you believe the intention is for DA to be operating with all it's toggles or do you believe the intention is to manage those toggles by clicking them on and off to conserve endurance?

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I've commented on this several times before. I do not understand folks choosing to manage their endurance by turning off toggles. I've never used this as a method of managing endurance for Dark Armor. The day stacking toggles became an option (I [censored] a bit on the forums because I didn't expect the change mid-issue) I started running every toggle all of the time. If players wish to continue playing muiscal toggles that's their choice, but IMHO has no relevance in balance discussions.

You will manage your endurance more efficiently by running all of your toggles. This has been the case long before IOs were introduced.

Besides stealthing or examining your costume, I find absolutely no reason to turn off Dark Armor toggles, and I'm one of the nuts who runs CoF with every scrapper primary.


Frankly, I don't even recommend Castle lower the endurance costs for CoF. They can stay exactly where they are at. It's the powers accuracy penalty that needs to be removed. It's bad enough higher con mobs get higher accuracy and resist the debuffs thereby weakening the effectiveness of CoF, but to make nigh impossible to hit a +3 with CoF is simply excessive.

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I get where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. Reconstruction is a poor comparison as it's part of Regeneration, a set that has little mitigation beyond heals and regeneration. Dark Regeneration is a massive heal so it's expected it should have a massive cost. Never mind that players wishing to push the envelope can easily overcome the endurance costs of Dark Regeneration with IOs.


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You cant use IOs as a reason to not get something looked at. Many folks dont even use IOs. If IOs were required then yeah this would be different.

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Hence I specified "players wishing to push the envelope."

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But the way this set plays IOs are required.


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I don't agree IOs are required. I played Dark Armor to 50 with 3 different primaries long before IOs were ever announced. An argument could be made that Dark Armor gained greater variablity thanks to IOs, but that's not the same thing.

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I pmed him recently on this too but he seems convinced its a balanced.

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If that truly is Castle's position I would REALLY like him to post it. I fail to see how any stretch of the imagination could justify CoF as 'balanced' in it's current form. CoF is a staple of Dark Armor's performance yet becomes increasingly useless as you fight higher con mobs. It's bad enough you have to contend with increasing resistance to to hit debuffs, but trying to overcome it's horrendous accuracy and steep end costs makes it virtually impossible to overcome all it's problems with OUT IOs. Yes, you can currently overcome many of CoF issue with IOs, but as you pointed out, IOs are not/should not be the basis for balance.

Moonlighter, this thread is going all over the place. If you want to make any realistic attempt to get the devs attention regarding Dark Armor, focus only on CoF and OG. Anything else will be dismissed as over powered.

Dark Armor WAS NOT designed with the intention of running all of it's toggles. The original design was to run 1 resistance toggle (OS, DE, or MC) 1 Mez toggle, Death Shroud and Cloak of Darkness. That was it.

While the devs eventually saw this would not function well and allowed the toggles to be run concurrently. This created massive endurance problems so the later lowered the base costs of OS, DE, and MC. These after the fact adjustment have remained to this day, (not factoring in GDN, ED, and global edurance reductions).

It has been my contention, in numerous threads on this topic, that CoF and OG need reviewing. CoF was excessively nerfed to function in a game environment that no longer exists. OG and CoF have virtually no synergy, which IMHO makes no sense. The two powers should be altered (not necessarily buffed) to actually give players an incentive to run both toggles.

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on a tanker. numbers from mids. 3 level 50 common io's. no end reduction in toggles i see the following (with tough):

71% s/l
79% psi
47% fire/cold
31% energy/toxic
63% neg

1.73 end per second.



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Sorry, but you're running more than just resistance shields to get that much endurance consumption. DE, OS, and MC cost 0.21 EPS each. Tough costs 0.33 EPS. Add them up and you only get 0.95 EPS. To come up with 1.73 EPS you would need to add Death Shroud (which is an attack) and Cloak of Darkness (which is a stealth, immob. protection, and a smidgen of defense).

Look, I'd love to see Dark Armor get some love as much as the next guy...probably more, but the endurance consumption on the entire set isn't what needs adjusting.

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DA needs an across the board increase in resists and a simultaneous reduction in end cost of the toggles.

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If you add "for PvP." I'd be in agreement. In PvE such a buff would be over powered. DA's resistance values are on par with other scrapper Secondaries.

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One thing that always troubled me about DA for a Tank- Dark Armor trades some def/dam res for pulsing status effects (stun or fear or both.) Since those effects pulse, aren't Alphas especially brutal?

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Dark Regeneration.

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let's face it, Dark Regen Blows in PVP. If you are fighting a dom or corruptor they are not going to come up and box with you to let you get your heal off.

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Ok, but lets be serious. Dark Armor blows in PvP in general, not just because of DR. 2/3 of the set is rendered useless in PvP. If you're looking to have Dark Armor adjusted for PvP, they need to alter how 2/3 of set the functions in PvP, which isn't likely to happen.

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well bunny are tasty when smouthered in butter

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Such comments will forever make me think of Hasenpfeffer

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That's why I say its a rite of passage. Its not meant to be easy street. And the Crazed don't have psi dmg. They have S/L. You are thinking about maliase and mother mayham's group. They are not the same. And the rad blasting blue cans are annoying to any set weak to nrg and def debuffs. Just gotta learn to move around. but the psi clockwork mish is big and you have a lot of connon prince on the map. You say it like its 5 or 6. Add that with the other long annoying mish it just becomes bleh. Hence the reason for dropping that particular mission most of the times. The blue cans force you play in a way you normaly don't play. Big deal. That's why you get more merits from that story arc then other in the game. Of course there easier ways to get to 45. I never said it was the only way.

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On this issue, we'll simply have to agree to disagree. I find the arc annoying and do not consider it a rite of passage of any kind. I understand your opinion differs.

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Tina's, arc is a rite of passage. It gets you from 40 to 45 on unyeilding.

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Sorry, but I can think of a dozen better ways to get from 40-45 that are not only faster but considerably less annoying. The only reason to ever run this arc on a second character is for the accolade.

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And how can you forget the crazed mish?

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The guys that dish out psi damage like it was candy? Most my scrappers are Dark Armor and Will Power...they laugh at Psi damage.

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The only mish I hate is the one you have to defeat all those clockwork prince robots in the psi clockwork world. Its just too annoying. I sometimes drop it.

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Again, mostly Psi damage, so not an issue. The Cannon Princes are pretty much all you have to look for.

It's the numerous defeat all rad blasting blue cans that annoy the heck out of me.

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~ Change the endurance cost of Dark Regeneration to something more reasonable. Charging over a third of a bar of Endurance for a self heal in a set that uses resists and heals for mitigation is harsh. I would like to see the base endurance cost reduced to 20.

As comparison, Reconstruction is only base 10 endurance. While it has a longer recharge and cannot benefit from healing from multiple foes, it has the benefit of not needed a hit check and it can be used between battles to recover health safely.

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I get where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. Reconstruction is a poor comparison as it's part of Regeneration, a set that has little mitigation beyond heals and regeneration. Dark Regeneration is a massive heal so it's expected it should have a massive cost. Never mind that players wishing to push the envelope can easily overcome the endurance costs of Dark Regeneration with IOs.

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~ Now that Cloak of Fear can only affect minions with Fear, fix the stats on it. Not only is the cost too much for what it does, but the damage aura the set uses actually interferes with its mitigation. The endurance cost for this power should be the same as Weave which would bring it down to 0.33. The power should also be changed back to base accuracy of 75%.

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In this area I mostly agree. CoF has excessively nerfed to function in a game environment that no longer exists today. IMHO, it should be adjusted for today's current game environment. I strongly recommend you PM Castle with regards to CoF. I have PM'd him numerous times, but since I suspect I am the only one who does so, it's not likely to ever reach any reasonable amount of attention.


I have posted on the subject before, but I feel both CoF and OG should be altered in some fashion so the actually compliment each other.

Well I'm inspired. I tried DA/Stone to 20. It was OK, but I hated the concept of the character. Think I'll start working on the concept now and role one next server team night run...(so I don't have to solo it)

That's a tad late to start a TF. I'm in regardless, but you might get a few more folks to sign up if you started at 9 PM EST, just a suggestion.