Defense_Options

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Taunt is auto-hit, you do not need to put an acc in it. Also it costs no end to use. If you want it 2-slotted, try a recharge reducer and a taunt duration instead.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't even think the darn thing accepts ACC enhancers, and if it does, it's definitely a bug.

Follow Ivy. She knows of what she speaks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed she does know of what she speaks. But that is not why people follow her.

Personally I, for my tanks, always slot end rdx in all my attacks. It keeps me going and going.

Lady Vixen with the finding that CJ does not stack defensively with Tough Hide nor Invincibility might Jump Kick work just fine for keeping you having an attack chain at lower levels, just slot an endrdx and use it for its punchvoke effect really but to help fill that early attack chain too. But then I know you like your boom so maybe not.

As long as we're talking broadsword scrappers....those claws guys hit so lightly.... I kid. =)

[ QUOTE ]

The i5 tanker is still pretty darned tough, they just now have the same limitations (more or less) that all players do: they cannot handle team-level challenges without their team's support. Leaving it the way it was in i4 where a tanker could handle team-level challenges without team-level support was pretty clearly broken and equally clearly not healthy for the game long-term.


[/ QUOTE ]

Leaving it as it was in I4 would not have been good for the game long term, I'm strictly talking Inv tanks here. I could survive things way over my head in I4 that's a fact. I posted pages of tests and fought every foe asked of me. I even had tankers who disagree come out and see just how far over my head I was safe. That was no good. Many tankers agreed things needed fixing some never will.

Problem is the change they made actually makes a team wanted for spawn size but not anything else. I can solo an eight man mission but not with my teammates around. Its much safer for them to be elsewhere as I fight alone. Reason for that is simple. First I can't hold aggro like I used too, I really don't mind that part. Second I'm safer with 16 foes, normal spawn size for an eight person team, then I am with 2 foes. My defense to everything non-S/L is so dependant on numbers about me that its simply much safer for me to defeat the group together being careful to bring everyone down as close together as possible that a team will likely not be as good about it as I will. Also while doing this I am very safe and don't need their support. The biggest danger for Inv is getting into the melee, once in he's snug as a bug in a rug.

Take my White Dwarf for comparison. He's fine with inital aggro but over time he needs help and his teammates to either arrest or buff him. Its simple as that he gains from having a team because resists allow damage to build up over time and cause you to need your team to either reduce that time you need to tank or buff you up so you can take it longer. Right now with Inv I don't see that need for support or even a desire for it if the Inv tank knows how to work his powers well.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know I'm really tempted to start a new regenner and purposely skip everything past Int.

[/ QUOTE ]

works fine on my lvl 31 DM/Reg so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny DM/Regen is the build I was thinking of. Either that or MA/Regen, I just don't like the MA animations. Might just wait for new scrapper primaries I have so many level 30+ characters right now its about time I got a second to 50.

You know I'm really tempted to start a new regenner and purposely skip everything past Int. Just to see how well that works. Take tough and weave, maybe aid self and such and just see if I turn out better off or not. As is my 50 has only reslience and IH and IH has only one recharge and I seem to get by.

Revive is a lackluster power. Weakest of the self rez powers and as with all of them requires you to be defeated to even be useful. Personally I would rather take something that helps prevent that defeat then take a power I can only use if defeated.

You know not that it will happen but shouldn't our one remaining toggle get the same protection in PvP as Granite and Dwarf form? It's our only toggle why not give it a little extra protection?

[ QUOTE ]
> when used in conjunction with '/em dance'

I can so envisage an anime based on this...

[/ QUOTE ]

Some how I don't see anime using /em dance...unless its a very special dance currently not included in /em dance.

Honestly though I do see QR as the next target. Dull Pain maybe also but certainly get a bad feeling about QR.

These are the number we have gathered through testing. We aren't sure why States do not match them but there are guesses.

Scrapper Information for Issue 5

Tanker Information for Issue 5

We are so going to die. I6 QR is removed and replace with .......... a conserve power.

[ QUOTE ]

The invul/SS seems to have few problems soloing and duoing on unyield/invinc or tanking for a group of 6 of us. I'm told there can sometimes be problems with medium sized (6-8 ?)non S/L mobs where invincibility doesn't provide enough of a defence bonus to avoid the extra damage that comes through the reduced damage resistance.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok now you seem to be a bit off here. I don't have a 50 tank but I have a 39 Inv/SS, 32 Fire/Fire, 27 Stone/Stone and a lower level group that does include Ice/EM and others.

But what I think you got wrong is what is causing issues for Inv, or rather what is the issue with Inv. It is possible your pal does not slot Invincibility enough and then yes he will have real issues with non-S/L groups even after he's closed with them. But if he slots it that is not an issue. 107 + defense to melee is usually more then enough and that is what Invincibility will give with 14 foes about. However closing to melee can be a serious issue as it give 0 defense while closing. That is when he is most vulnerable. That is also when his team need to support him. Problem is many can't. Not much a scrapper can do to help while you close, beside smoke grenade, and that isn't much, not much a blaster can do while you close. Some controllers can help and some defenders can. Others can't. Not much a Rad can do as you close unless he wants the aggro and well that's the point of letting you go in and grab aggro first. Dark can do some to some damage types but not tons. Storm again can do some to some damage type but not if he wants to stay back at all. There are things Emps can do. Obviously FF and Sonic can give you the edge you need while closing. Though there is an issue with different types of defense not stacking. Anyone once he closes he hardly needs help but getting there is the trick and for that many teammates can do little to help. Seems the reverse of wanting teammate help actually. Once in melee Inv is safe from most damage types (psi not withstanding). Actually reading the defense issue I get the feeling that once in melee FF bubbles are only helping in certain situations the rest of the time they add nothing to your defense. To need his teammates to help an Inv needs better resists and less defense from Invincibility as is things will only encourage Inv to find ways around it, such as stealth and TP and then not need his teammates at all.

[ QUOTE ]

Hm at lvl 40: Rikti bosses with Psi, CoT with plenty of Fire/Energy, Devouring Earth toxins, Council energy weapons... Yep, lots of non-S/L. Again, all on Invincible, solo and teamed.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ritiki bosses all switch to S/L / Ene once you close. CoT it really depends but even many of them will switch to S/L in melee. DE is almost all S/L with only a few using Toxic, at range again in melee they go S/L. Council use some fire and sonic but the vast majority are S/L.

[ QUOTE ]

So "Hardly enough" is just not true. I can really understand how those who play City of Spreadsheets would freak out when the numbers change so much. I'd encourage them to take a step back and think if maybe there might be other ways to *play* beyond the ones they've tried. Pop those insprs, use the terrain the manage aggro, make the most of any teammates.


[/ QUOTE ]

No actually unlike you I play a game called city of Heroes maybe you should try it.

[ QUOTE ]

Agreed, questioning tough hide though and think that might be slotted as well. Needs something to at least offset the defense debuff.


[/ QUOTE ]

Tough Hide is a fine power. I take it and slot it before I would take of slot any other Inv power. Let me explain quickly why.

Even Con Minion base acc is 50%

Combined RPD, REle, REne 6 slotted will stop 18% of that damage. TH alone will stop 22% (assuming non-Toxic). It doesn't hold as well as we go up but it stays up to close to all three combined for quite a bit. Also note not getting hit means no secondary effects will get you either.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To make a viable Inv tanker we now have to take Invincibilty and 6 slot it. Take Dull Pain and make it Perma. Slot up only Temp Inv and Unyielding and then 6 slots all of aour attacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know who "we" is, but it definitely isn't all players. My Inv has invincibility unslotted and only uses it against large groups, he doesn't even have dull pain, and has RPD and RE slotted up along with TI and Unyielding.

He has no problem soloing on Invincible (except for the expected snails pace in dealing damage) or tanking for large groups.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your resists

90 to S/L
38 to T/Ene/Ele
0 to Psi

That's with even level SOs. Hardly enough against any foe that uses mostly non-S/L. I strongly suggest you 6 slot Invincibility with defense and start using it if you plan to fight against foes that don't primarily use S/L. You can claim all you want that you solo Invincibile level missons but you can't be fighting non-S/L foes in numbers or you'd never live on those numbers.

[ QUOTE ]

You don't play much PvP...well, I have fought that same lvl DM/Inv with my DM/SR...quite a few times.


[/ QUOTE ]

You can't kill someone with max 75% resists? How do you do against Stone, 90% resists across the board -psi in an armor you can't even detoggle, never mind rooted which gives a regen rate only slightly lower then regen's best intigration. Oh and he also has defense in granite. Or prehaps a White Dwarf with 85% resist to all -psi, still 10% better then your Inv scrapper could get and again can't be detoggled. Heck truth is even the scrapper really couldn't cap his non-S/L then so more like he had 70%. Lets not forget In PvP your crits ignore resists.

All this is silly anyway since I could careless about PvP. In PvE its silly for Inv to have a defense based on number of foes about. It reduces the need for any help once in melee. Getting in may be hard but its not like your team can generally help with that anyway. So you still don't need them unless they happen to have ways to give you defense/resists as you close then its fine they can help while you close once in who cares your defense will be high enough it really will not matter.

Also as for great S/L resists why does Inv need three powers, scrappers 4 powers (they need tough now) to cap S/L when fire can do it with 2, DA with 2, stone with one, and Dwarfs with one. Doesn't sound like great S/L resists if you need 50% more powers (100% for scrappers) and as many or more slots.

Yeah "great" S/L resists.

Cute but what about sets you now have made defense relient? Inv for instance is far more defense relient then stone. So why exactly does Stone get this and Inv does not?

[ QUOTE ]

You attempted to assert priority by arguing which stealth nerfing happened first. Clearly EF did. Feel free to cast about for some way to make Regen the poster boy for stealth nerfs if you will, but that misses the point entirely.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well you seem to want to argue Rad is the poster boy. Its unimportant in the end.

[ QUOTE ]

But Debuffs to Resist didn't, only EF did. Do you understand that?


[/ QUOTE ]

I do understand that. I'm saying maybe they all should and that all defensive debuffs also.

[ QUOTE ]

First let me point out that the first stealth nerfing of Enervating Field took place in I2. Last I looked I2 came BEFORE I3.


[/ QUOTE ]

Was it halved? Combine this nerf and I2's was it halved? If not regen still leads. Int dropped from 400 to 200 overnight with no word of the change in any patch notes.

[ QUOTE ]

As for the rest of your comment, Darkest Night debuffs damage, it wasn't touched. Tar Patch debuffs resistance, it wasn't touched. Enervating Field, which does both those things was touched. If it makes sense to nerf EF, then it make sense to nerf Darkest Night and Tar Patch.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't actually argueing that the EF nerf was good just saying that resists took a hard hit and maybe debuffs to resist should also. Heck with regen getting nerf yet again I'd argue for -regen to get slaughtered.

First let me welcome you to the world of regen. We got this type of surprise after I3 when they halved Int without saying boo. Well for you its just a short visit to the green world of regen its not exactly like your the most dev ignored group there is. But you are green...I wonder if they actually hate green...anyway to the thing I came here for.

[ QUOTE ]

Please note the highlighted items. As I'm sure you know, Enervating Field has both an offensive buff (The Resistance debuff) and a defensive buff (The Damage debuff) component.

So because defensive powers were reduced, you are reducing the effectiveness of the offensive component of Enervating Field?! Surely reducing the defensive component, i.e. the Damage Debuff, would have been more appropriate given the dev reasoning?


[/ QUOTE ]

Many AT-wise resistances also took a fall. And a hard one at that. Look at Inv. Resist Elements dropped from 20 to 7.5 base, Unyielding dropped from 20 to all -psi to 5 to S/L and 10 to the rest -psi, Resist Energies dropped from 20 to 7.5, and even TI dropped from 32.5 to 30 and RPD dropped also. All except TI by way more then 5. Most where halved or worse (tanker version numbers, scrappers took the same hit but different numbers). Tough also took a hit dropping a resist any AT could pick up. So just to back Cuppa a bit resistances did drop for many and drop hard. For PvP her line might make sense balance-wise.

Not that I agree with stealth nerfing or any of that. I find it very low. Just for the record Defense Options is a Rad/Ene defender and I have another Rad/Rad I enjoy so it effects me and I'm not happy about the change. Just saying with defensive powers dropped maybe there is cause to drop the power of some debuffs.

[ QUOTE ]

Toggles:
If you Attack, or are Hit - Critters see you. You loose half your defense buff (and your PvP stealth) for 10 seconds. Your translucency is reduced to indicate this change.


[/ QUOTE ]

So it works fine until you need it then it gets cut in half? Seems pretty lame to me.

Well my build which I fully admit is light on attacks, is aimed at maximizing defense. To that end I have Tough Hide 6 slotted and Invincibility 6 slotted. I also capped my S/L, or am real close to the cap. I have Resist Elements and Resist Energies but I will not slot them. With this build I can run about in Founder's Falls and clean house on +3s and +4s pretty safely, even ones that don't do only S/L. Though it is more dangerous to face non-S/L foes I just pop a luck and herd'm up. Once herded your pretty safe. Against S/L foes I can safely herd +7s. I can kill them over the course of 10 minutes for a minion, 30 for an LT, and over an hour for a boss (I had him to about a quater life after an hour and just got bored). As long as you have say 5 or 6 with you in melee your safe even against +7s that do mostly S/L. Against CoTs that do fire and other non-S/L I did herd a group of 8 +7s and +8s but died after 2 minutes. I did not use inspirations or unstoppable but I was doing a ton of running about to keep them close. Thorns seem to have a smarter AI in that they actually want to keep away from you and not act as a shield.

To me this is really borked. Completely not what was wanted. I hope they listen but I have my doubts.

[ QUOTE ]
I just spoke with him earlier this week at DDO, and he is indeed done with CoH, having found Statesman's comment to a tanker unable to solo some Rikti as snide.

I miss him, he made this place shine! Still, I know where to find him!

[/ QUOTE ]

I too have registered with DDO and talked briefly with Havok there. Miss the big guy.


I have been running a series of tests on Inv/SS and I can tell you there is a way to make it tough but its silly. You need to herd to make it work and that totally annoys me. Anyway when I5 comes about I will post a guide here for all us hard core superman fans. It will not be the equal of our man Havok but I'll do my best to make what has happened and how we can work clear.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even if it is 4% that is 1 in 25 instead of 1 in 20, which is not bad at all. If 3%, then 1 in 33. If 2.5% then 1 in 40 - I don't think they would go that far... but who knows

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah really, though Invuln right now are the only ones who can cap anything without outside help. So its not much help to anyone else really - even Ice who's supposed to be pure DEF.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stone is capping nicely, all things except Psi with Granite. And Fire can cap S/L too and cheaper at that. Tough works wonders.

Also note that Inv must have a group around him. Eventually he will want to kill that group and then as he does his defense melts away.

I saw State's newest post and I almost want to say there are now only three tanks left. Ice just melted away.

I am changing my sig to support Ice. What is happening to them makes me really not understand what was going through the dev's heads. 0.5 defense is just going to trick all the non-forum dwellers into slotting it and they will be getting nothing at all for those slots.

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the real numbers (that's what I get for doing stuff from memory).

Wet Ice
0.5% base
1.265% Defence from Wet Ice with ++ SO's.

17.71% Max Defence from Energy Absorbtion (not what I had earlier).

[/ QUOTE ]

Those numbers are ... well I'd laugh but really... States you have got to do something about that. Neither power is worth even slotting. Heck EA is close to not worth taking. Wet Ice is good for Status protection. But you have to see that any player who doesn't read the boards is going to slot this and be totally wasting his slots. He'd be much better taking add slotting CJ then slottiing Wet Ice. 5 time better off.