DaemonDivinity

I am a veteran tanker. I do PvE, so take my advice as such:

If you're going fly, take AS. I went SJ, so took CJ. I remember back in I-1 I took flurry. Don't.

While the gentleman here presents a quality overview, I beleive he neglects a simple few truths. The foremost is that right now defense is better than resistance, save versus S/L for you. The difference between having and not having the REs is 9% in each, which is effectively less than a 3% reduction in damage you will take. Honestly, you will not notice the difference (EM Stalkers may prove this wrong, but this isn't going to help you much anyway).

You will get much more out of getting as close to capped as possible out of your already formidable S/L resistances and defense. To this end, I have to recommend the fighting pool. Tough will bring S/L to the cap, and a 3-slotted Weave is identically noteworthy as TH. The endurance will be a bit more difficult, but a single end reducer in each attack and toggle is sufficient.

Stamina and Health should be three slotted, the first as a priority early, the latter when able. The difference is notable if you don't have heals on demand.

As far as attacks, mine are Jab, Haymaker, Boxing, KO Blow, Boot of Doom (TM). I went Pyre for more AoE, but Body is more common. AS can replace Haymaker and Punch can replace Boxing, as shown. I just used Boxing over Punch once I finally took Fighting pool. I haven't noticed a difference overall.

Final notes on aggro:
1. I used to take Taunt early. Nowadays, Taunt's effectiveness is diminished. I now leave it out.
2. Guantlet is currently broken, or has a very short duration. Either way, plan for this. It's not enough alone like it used to be, though Invincibility can help. Guantlet also, even when properly working does not function on Pool attacks.
3. This has been argued lately, no one's sure, but it seems I-7 introduced an aggro nerf. It looks like cyclic check for a full disengage. That is, every so often, every MOB will lose aggro for a second, if they have an attack ready use it on a random target, and then go back to where they were. I've seen it dozens of times only since I-7. There isn't much you can do about this. Hope the defender is good.
4. As far as PvP goes, I can't tell you much. I do imagine though that this build will perform not much better or worse than Vox's. Even if your ability to resist an alpha (assuming it hits) is a bit diminished from some esoteric sets, you still should survive well due to HP and S/L resist. At this point, DP will fully restore you, then smash.

Hurdle would work as well. If you want the poor man's superjump. I prefer the ground speed, pulls more aggro with Invincibility. To each their own. However, if you take Hurdle, it's worth considering moving slots around. For instance, I'm not sure whether Hurdle or CJ offers more jump, and where those slots would show more benefit.

Stupid question... can you stack Dominate on TK to get bosses? And does TK still have that limit?

Ahh... now I see where you compensate for the armors... sorry. I'm sleep deprived.

Now for the kicker... doesn't mez have a LOT to do with survivability of melee classes (Burn, Cloak of Fear, Oppressive Gloom) or is the variability on that mean you didn't want to include it else it would disrupt the precision?

I used the term "appreciable damage" for net damage sustained over time back when invul tankers didn't actually accumulate damage faster than their base regen, hence it didn't "appreciate".

Not many people liked that term save Invul and Regen.

Could you explain how you came to your formula for relative survivability and how it relates to tanking capacity?

I'm unable to comprehend conceptually how you arrived at this formula.

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
---------------------------------------------
Name: Tanker Inv-SS
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Invulnerability
Secondary: Super Strength
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Resist Physical Damage==> DmgRes(1)DmgRes(31)DmgRes(33)
01) --> Jab==> Acc(1)Dmg(3)Dmg(3)Dmg(9)EndRdx(9)
02) --> Temp Invulnerability==> DmgRes(2)DmgRes(15)DmgRes(15)EndRdx(36)
04) --> Haymaker==> Acc(4)Dmg(5)Dmg(5)Dmg(13)Rechg(13)
06) --> Boxing==> Acc(6)Dmg(7)Dmg(7)Dmg(11)EndRdx(11)
08) --> Unyielding==> DmgRes(8)DmgRes(17)DmgRes(17)EndRdx(40)
10) --> Combat Jumping==> DefBuf(10)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)Run(50)Run(50)
14) --> Super Jump==> Jump(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)Heal(46)Heal(46)
18) --> Invincibility==> DefBuf(18)DefBuf(19)DefBuf(19)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20)EndMod(21)EndMod(21)
22) --> Knockout Blow==> Acc(22)Dmg(23)Dmg(23)Dmg(43)Rechg(43)Rechg(43)
24) --> Tough==> DmgRes(24)DmgRes(25)DmgRes(25)EndRdx(34)
26) --> Tough Hide==> DefBuf(26)DefBuf(27)DefBuf(27)EndRdx(34)
28) --> Rage==> Rechg(28)Rechg(29)Rechg(29)
30) --> Weave==> DefBuf(30)DefBuf(31)DefBuf(31)EndRdx(34)
32) --> Unstoppable==> Rechg(32)Rechg(33)Rechg(33)
35) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(35)Rechg(36)Rechg(36)Heal(37)Heal(37)Heal(37)
38) --> Foot Stomp==> Acc(38)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Dmg(39)Rechg(40)Rechg(40)
41) --> Char==> Acc(41)Rechg(42)Rechg(42)Rechg(42)
44) --> Fire Blast==> Acc(44)Dmg(45)Dmg(45)Dmg(45)Rechg(46)
47) --> Fire Ball==> Acc(47)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Dmg(48)Rechg(50)
49) --> Hand Clap==> Acc(49)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> EndRdx(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Acc(1)
01) --> Gauntlet==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Rechg(2)
---------------------------------------------

You can hit the S/L cap with those powers and about 28% F/C/E/N or so with UnY/REL/REN. I agree, we should have more resistance and less defense. But still, we have what we have.

But we really shouldn't just kick out TH. Here's why.

UnY gives a 5% debuff, and Invincibility maxed is about 2.1per and 5%, totaling up to about 21% defense against anyone in melee, 8% at range. Tough Hide is worth another 8% slotted out.

Melee w/o TH: Hit 29% of the time.
Melee w/ TH: Hit 21% of the time.
That's about a 25% reduction of hits sustained, regardless of damage type (save psi).

Melee w/o TH: Hit 42% of the time.
Melee w/ TH: Hit 34% of the time.
That's about a 20% reduction of hits sustained, regardless of damage type (save psi).

Compare this to a max-slotted REL or REN (RPD is still reasonably good).
w/o REL/REN: 84% damage taken from F/C/E/N
w/ REL/REN: 72% damage taken from F/C/E/N
That's about a 14% reduction of hits sustained from two types of damage per power, and with both powers it may amount to 1/3 the damage you face in game. So each is about maybe 1/8 as good as TH.

No contest anymore.

(Note: If you see any of my other posts, I argue for improved resists and declining defense. I agree with the principle of a resistance set, but this is as-is.)

Also, Rage is a ToHitBuff of about 20%, without even accounting for Invincibility. That means against even con MOBs w/o defense mods or ToHit debuffing effects, you are capped without any accuracies. One ACC per attack will help keep that cap against up to about +2s. More ACCs will help up higher, more ToHit buffs will NOT help unless your enemies have defense buffs or you're fighting over +5s.

Criticism mode deactivated. I have an Inv/SS/Pyre with SJ. I like.

I read somewhere that Quickness also improves fly speed, but I'm guessing that's just wishful thinking. I mean, 4 slotted hover would be nice again...

Can anyone fully deny this so I don't have to contemplate getting Hover anymore?

Does SK + EC + CK + TK give you a complete attack chain with quickness and 1 recharge in each?

As of ED, Hasten becomes a take-it or leave-it. Depends on whether you want it to compliment your last three Empathy powers or otherwise improve your DPS. Not essential though.

Here's what I did for Empathy, it works well:

HA = 3 Heal, 2 recharge (without stamina, may want 1 endred)
HO = 3 Heal, 2 recharge (without stamina, may want 1 endred)
DP = 3 heal, 2 recharge (bridges delays in HO, 1-shot Tanker fix)
Rez = 1 recharge
CM = 1 recharge
Fort = 3 DefBuff, 3 recharge (The 3rd recharge only shaves off 6 seconds, it can become a ToHitBuff)
RecA = 3 recharge
RegA = 3 heal, 3 recharge (effectively IH for the team)
AB = 3 heal, 3 recharge (IH+QR+Hasten)

Psychic Blast I haven't used all of yet, but here's what I've got on it:
Mental Blast = 1 acc (bit slow, not all that good, decent DPS if slotted though)
Subdue = (I didn't take it, but it supposedly has good DPS and quick activation)
Psionic Lance = 1 acc, 3 dmg (longer snipe than usual, potent, but still a snipe, some chain TKB, WD, PL, if so use a recharge)
Psychic Scream = 1 acc, 3 dmg (decent but not impressive AoE)
TKB = 1 acc, 3 dmg, 1 rchg, 1 endred (immediate fire, impressive damage, reliable knockback)
WD = 1 acc, 3 dmg, 1 rchg, 1 endred (immediate fire, impressive damage, reliable sleep)
Scramble Thoughts = (I didn't take it, but from observation it appears unimpressive.)
Psychic Tornado = (I didn't take it, but from observation it appears decent but not impressive AoE)
Psionic Wail = 1 acc, 3 dmg, 2rchg (it's a nuke, it's impressive but not as nova, barely resisted but needs acc, without Aim)

I'll put out a full guide eventually but this should give you an idea as to how to go.

Damn and thank you... *takes notes*

I may put a link to this in my sig.

Well, I did come up with a theoretical build that would let me get and slot almost everything how I wanted to. The issue is that Ice already has a lot of contradictory elements (immobilize vs KD for instance) and it seems to revolve around Ice Patch. Storm adds, most importantly imo, Freezing Rain, Hurricane, Steamy Mist, and Thunderclap.

Two of these are KD/KB elements which again add over that redundancy in Ice, and increase the risk of KBing the enemy out of the area of effect, especially out of things like Arctic Air (don't know why that works with Steamy Mist, but anyway...).

I'm more worried about the two sets conflicting (though conceptually they shouldn't) than being unnable to take everything. It'll be a very controlling controller if it works though.

Love the guide. I now want to work on leveling my Ice/Storm. The gods only know how I'm gonna sort through the powers, the set has a lot that overlaps with Storm. Hurricane and Ice Patch...

Favorited.

And the aggro cap too. I think I've had it.

People will notice like how this empath did:
[Broadcast] C-Med XII: My 300 point heal does 180? [censored] is this ****!?

Or this Tanker:
[Broadcast] Panzer Man: Holy ****! I just died to 3 oranges!

And, with ED came the stealth nerfs:

[Team] Talonmaster: Did integration just drop in 3 holds?

[Team] MezDomme: Holy hell tanker take the damn aggro!
[Team] Firebasher: I can't! Every time I taunt more, some turn away!
[Team] Firebasher: It's like they capped aggro!

Exported from version 1.5B of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Tanker
Primary Powers - Ranged : Invulnerability
Secondary Powers - Support : Super Strength

01 : Jab acc(01) dam(3) dam(3) dam(7) endred(7)
01 : Temp Invulnerability damres(01) damres(15) damres(27) endred(31)
02 : Punch acc(02) dam(5) dam(5) dam(9) endred(9)
04 : Resist Physical Damage damres(04) damres(34) damres(34)
06 : Combat Jumping jmp(06) jmp(42) jmp(42)
08 : Unyielding damres(08) damres(33) damres(33) endred(33)
10 : Haymaker acc(10) dam(11) dam(11) dam(13) endred(13) recred(15)
12 : Swift runspd(12) runspd(40) runspd(42)
14 : Super Jump jmp(14)
16 : Health hel(16) hel(17) hel(17)
18 : Invincibility defbuf(18) defbuf(19) defbuf(19) tntdur(43) tntdur(46) tntdur(50)
20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21) endrec(21)
22 : Knockout Blow acc(22) dam(23) dam(23) dam(25) recred(25) recred(27)
24 : Resist Elements damres(24) damres(34) damres(36)
26 : Resist Energies damres(26) damres(36) damres(36)
28 : Rage recred(28) recred(29) recred(29)
30 : Dull Pain recred(30) recred(31) recred(31) hel(37) hel(37) hel(37)
32 : Unstoppable recred(32) recred(43) recred(43)
35 : Taunt recred(35)
38 : Foot Stomp acc(38) dam(39) dam(39) dam(39) recred(40) recred(40)
41 : Char acc(41)
44 : Fireblast acc(44) dam(45) dam(45) dam(45) recred(46) recred(46)
47 : Fireball acc(47) dam(48) dam(48) dam(48) recred(50) recred(50)
49 : Tough Hide defbuf(49)

-------------------------------------------

01 : Brawl acc(01)
01 : Sprint endred(01)
02 : Rest recred(02)

This is what I did. Remarkably similar to yours IV. I still refuse to take Fighting pool on a matter of principle.

The worst was when I saw a traitor to Tankerdom claiming that ED was no big deal cause she was getting Stealth, Tough, Weave and Combat Jumping and slotting them all so she'd be fine. The second it's fine that you have 3 manditory pools to maintain a defense, something's wrong. Some people really need to be executed.

This is a bad idea on several levels.

First off, on principle, Reflexes does not help absorb damage. If anything they should be given a 'roll with it skill' which could be either resistance or a flat percentile 'you miss' chance. But this just doesn't make sense. They should get more of a dodge bonus if anything due to frantic weaving.

Secondly, as we've discovered, the thing about resistance is it makes like no difference unless you're at high numbers (at least 50%). At less, it's not doing as much. So essentially you're not helping avoid the alpha. If it comes at full life they have no resist, if it comes at 20%-60% they're still not surviving it cause they'll not be higher than their initial effective total (and if they are something's wrong). Give them a higher defense bonus and it'll actually matter.

I also think the base numbers need a big boost, especially with ED. Like double or triple.

Too damn little, too damn late.

25% base increase to damage
25% base decrease to end cost
25% base decrease to end cost

Anything less means that you've crippled us, and even that's still weakening us. Kiss 1/3 your playerbase goodbye.

The hesitance there is the biggest symbol that your usually calm demeanor has been eroded IV. No one can blame you. I retired my Tanker on I5, hoping some day he could do his thing again. And, lord oh lord, I began playing defenders. Now? Well, if the ED system goes up, I quit. There will be no return for tanks, and everyone's going down with them. Except maybe a very few controllers.

Issues include:

1. Friend requests not going through until [/chatbeta 1] is retyped.
2. Tells not being able to be replied to across server.
3. Automatic reversion to local. Repeatedly typing [/chatbeta 1] is necessary.
4. Backspace and right clicking omitting the @ symbol.
5. Incorrect reporting as to a character's online status (instead retyping their handle), lack of reporting their current server.

Still seems to need work. However once its functioning it will be revolutionary.

2 things,

#1. I get Charged Bolt unslotted at 60-70% of Lightning Bolt for damage.

#2. Question: Is it possible to get perma AM without Hasten using 6 recharge enhancements in it? Just curious.

Yay... we're not on the chopping block again!

Just in the crosshairs...

On a personal note, I'd just like to say while I still don't love a lot of I3, I found the Invulnerability changes less disruptive than anticipated. Everything is tolerable. That's the good news.

However, the patch went live buggy. Obviously it was undertested. Tough Hide is still mislabled, server crashes are prominant (especially notable on Guardian and Pinnacle from what I've seen), and there are quite a few minor errors sprinkled in. But as for bosses...

Well, I've yet to be 1-shotted. And this is because I play a tanker. That being said, I've seen numbers that might 1-shot even tankers coming from bosses, barring damage resistance. This is a bad sign. Their utterly insane HP makes scrapper damage mitigation (taking down the threats) impossible. Others have even more nightmarish episodes. The scaling is so bad I can fight +6 minions and Lts, but have trouble with a boss my own level. This combined with obvious errors in mission programming makes it difficult or impossible for even teams to deal with bosses they come up against. Bosses need their damage reduced significantly, and their HP reduced slightly. An easier method of compensating would be to have minions and lts spawn at higher levels or in larger groups than before.

Then again, it is your system to tinker with.