Coyote_Seven
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Posts
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Joined
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I know I always give Internets to people who say things I want to hear!
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He said "book burning". Yeah, what was I thinking? Sheesh. They never burned books!
Oh wait... -
Quote:Well this being the Internet and all, so many people get so worked up over so little! I just wanted to be sure.Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
You have to try a lot harder than that to offend me, hun.
I have more serious stuff in life to worry than whether or not you think video games are an art or not. -
Quote:You think people who have a different opinion from you are Nazis? Why don't you come over to my house and tell me how I should think and how I shouldn't? Opinions are opinions. If you don't like, tough--"one person's meat" and all that. Just because you think differently doesn't authorize a [**REDACTED** WARNING: GODWIN ALERT! GODWIN ALERT!]Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
Man, I should've read the rest of the thread. Why don't you come over to my house and tell me what I should like, and shouldn't. Art is art. If you don't like it, tough--"eye of the beholder" and all that. Just because you don't like it doesn't authorize a book burning.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
Yes, pornography is an art. So is sex.
It has creativity.
Do you really wanna debate this here?LOL! No hard feelings then? I ain't a complete *******, y'know!Quote:Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
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Quote:Sure! Why not? I know where you're going with it!Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
Yes, pornography is an art. So is sex.
It has creativity.
Do you really wanna debate this here?
'Cause then that means that trolling is also an artform. Dare I say that it is performance art!
And some people are really, really good at it. ;D -
Well, considering that I said that from the very start of this argument!
No, no... I realize it's easier to just dismiss someone who disagrees with you offhandedly.
Oh wait, I did that first to you didn't I? I was actually going to call a stand-down with you since I figured it was just a mere misunderstanding. But, yeah.
That this thread seems to be rapidly making me into a pariah is a good indicator that I might be onto something. I won't be swayed by the groupthink, ok thanks! -
Quote:Wow, that sure sounds a lot like certain definitions of pornography then!Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
There's an old and often tossed-around saying: "I don't know what art is, but I like it." You don't have to know what art is if you enjoy something, Coyote.
Wait! So that means... -
Quote:I think you missed the part where I said I think videogames are approaching a status of "artform". I just don't think it's really there yet and to insist that it is is premature.Originally Posted by Obsidius
How can one say that entertainment is not an art form in one post, and then site the Hollywood establishments for recognition of television and cinema (as a basis of defining an art form) in a previous post? Not to be overly blunt, but that's a hypocritical fallacy.
If one embraces cinema, television, theater, musicals, dancing, music, and other forms of entertainment as art, why then should one make an exception for video games? Are they not created by artists? Do they not entertain us? Are they not criticized by the public and professionals alike?
In regards to the "ultimate message", it is true that not every video game is a narrative with a moral at the end, or a compelling story. However, the same can be said about many television shows. Yet still, to cite a specific example, shows like Robot Chicken still win Emmys and are recognized by their peers and their audiences, despite not having much content at all. And that's to say nothing for Seinfeld, as another example. Yet, these are still recognized art forms.
That's my 2 infl. Color me in the same corner as BAB in this debate.
And come to think of it, this wasn't the original argument now, was it? I've led you all down a spectacular tangent! My bad, I guess.
People have made sure to note there's plenty of art done for this game, as if I had never noticed it before, haha. You will also note that I actually had nothing bad to say about the art in the game, as I was talking about the game's mechanics (i.e. its rules). -
Quote:Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
I don't know how to respond to this post other than to disagree as vehemently as one can disagree with another human being.Well look, I know several artists. Some of them have worked on TV shows and some of them have worked on videogames. And several of them certainly question the idea of whether or not games are a form of art. You know, because most of them, as artists, like to question the world around them and not take things at their face value. So I'm not about to be making any assumptions here!Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
You're saying its questionable whether what BaB - an animation artist - does qualifies as an "artform" and you're not sure in what specific manner he is disagreeing with you?
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Well see, the difference is that in a song, or a painting or a movie, art is used to convey a message of some kind; often personal, sometimes politcial, but always very important. At least to the person who made it.
Now videogames came from a different angle from that. The main point of a game was not to invoke an emotion or convey an important message. It was something else entirely. I'll admit that with videogames, it has already begun moving away from that. But like I was trying to say before, I don't think it's exactly there yet.
Now a good analogy for us here might be in comic books. They were certainly not considered to be serious art to any degree! But I'm certain anyone who's read them in the last 30 or 40 years would beg to differ.
Now here we got an MMO that embraces the spirit of the superhero genre that has been the mainstay of comic books for so long. Just one look in the thread about Going Rogue on the heated philosophical discussions over the true meaning of morality will show that the makers of this game have kind of touched on something. I don't know if that's really by design or not, or if us posters have just gone off on some wild tangent!
A game like this one is enteraining to be sure, there are no doubts there! But what's is ultimate message? Good always triumphs over evil? Be careful what you wish for? Sacrifices must sometimes be made for the greater good?
If you think this game is art, I'd like to know why you think so. No trite or sarcastic responses, pretty please. I'm quite serious. Why do you think it is? My mind is certainly open to the possibility. -
Quote:Which part? That videogames aren't an art form, that they may be an artform eventually, or that some games are closer to being art than others?Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
I don't know how to respond to this post other than to disagree as vehemently as one can disagree with another human being.
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Nice spin in the last sentence, but I think you missed the part where I'd previously posted in this thread that I actually like the new graphics upgrade. I don't know where you got that I didn't.
At either rate, you're quickly starting to build up a straw-man here, and coupled with your semantic arguments, I'd say that indeed trying to talk with you is very pointless! -
Danm that's awesome cool!
I'd start talking about remaking Paragon City as it looks in the game, but I get the feeling going down that road might potentially break a rule or three! -
How is the debate pointless? Just because you said so?
By your own reckinong, your opinion here is as pompous as everyone else's.
As for videogames being an artform: Videogames haven't even existed for a century. It took a long time for cinema to be considered an art form, and that's a lot closer to theater than videogames ever were; unless someone's trying to make "Hamlet" or "The Importance of being Earnest" into some epic scale RPG that I'm not aware of.
It's very much debateable whether or not videogames are an artform, so please don't speak in such absolutes. They may very well be eventually, but I'm not convinced that they are now. Certainly most games out there right now would not count, and they are not recognized as such by any art academy or instition that I know of (is there an equivalent of the Oscar or Tony award for them? I'd certainly like to know!). -
Quote:Dominatrix.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Also, as it's no longer a mirror universe, she'll probably keep the same followers, so both she and Ms Liberty would be in command of an army of gimps.
Gimp.
You missed it!
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The main point here though is that the best graphics in the world won't save your game, if the play is mediocre.
That's not to say that developers should completely ignore the eye candy though. Just that adding or improving how well the game plays should be the higher priority in general. And actually, with CoH I think that's been the case so far. They usually want to create more missions and more types of missions over, say, power customization.
My opinion, though? I want more interaction with the game's environment. A lot more! -
Quote:I'm totally with this. In fact, I think I'll be writing all my stories just like this!Originally Posted by Silver Gale
Good and Evil are terms each person defines for themselves, based on their culture, their own personality, and how much thought they're willing to put into it. Of course if a person tells you "I believe that general statement X", you can always say "but what about extremely specific situation Y where general statement X could be applied in various dramatically different ways". As I said: you can do that, but you really shouldn't, because the sort of person who always asks questions like that is considered to be very tiresome and doesn't get invited to parties.
It's much easier, to avoid tiresome people like that, never to say "I believe that general statement X". Instead, you should create a world in which general statement X is always true without exception, and write a book or movie or game that takes place in that world and shows general statement X to be true, and then turn it into a bestseller. This way, when the tiresome person reads your book and comes up with their extremely specific hypothetical example that calls your belief into question, you are miles away enjoying a nice glass of sherry and counting the profits you made off the royalty fees.
You know, I think maybe I already do. I'll be laughing all the way to the bank!
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Quote:I see what you did there!Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So a serial killer is on the same level as Maritin Luther King?
I'd say that maybe you ought to actually start adding something meaningful and relevant to the conversation at hand instead of snippy little one-liners that are only designed to cut-off actual thought since they provide neither insight nor proof of any kind, but this is... what... only my second post in this thread so far?
So, yeah. -
Quote:I see that you prefer Disney villains over more realistic ones.Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
Ugh, no, see, that just falls into the equally irritating "turns out there are no heroes, Man is an animal, society is a veneer stretched over the law of the jungle" trap. That kind of thing is just as validly explorable, philosophically speaking, but also just as out of place in the simple world of the superhero.
Seriously, I'm just tired of all the postmodern self-examination in today's pop culture. It's why I love Atomic Robo so much. Those guys still get it: Nazis are bad, punch them in their face, the end.
The truth is, there are no villains. There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy. There's just you and me and we both disagree....
Whoa-oh-oooh! o/~ -
Quote:I don't know how that is abstract, as that's pretty much what videogames are and have always been, but... whatever.Originally Posted by Nethergoat
In the abstract sense than they're a diversionary entertainment, yes.
I agree with you in principle here. As one old videogame magazine (that is long, long gone) always said: "The game's the thing". The graphics ought to take a backseat to the gameplay. Just as with any movie, where even the most brilliant and expensive special effects and on-location shots, and first run actors will do nothing to save it from a badly written story (Well, except maybe "Plan 9 From Outer Space" if it was done deliberately campy, but I digress!).Quote:But if we think of a the game as a novel (another form of diversionary entertainment), graphics are the cover. They have no impact on the quality of the prose or how engaging the story being told is.
I'd prefer more energy be spent on the inside of the book than the outside, while understanding the need for 'rack appeal' to attract potential readers.
Personally, I'd have loved for CoH to gain much more interactive environments; little things like not getting stuck on shrubs or bushes (and, ahem, being able to pick up objects and throw them at foes! >.>) Not to mention the rather one-sided conversations you have with your contacts. There's a wee little bit of environment interaction if you have the physics turned on (and I guess having reflective surfaces will count, too) , but that's much too little.
Eye candy is good and all and it will hook in new players, and keep the game appearing fresh and new. But I hope they don't stop there, and go much further than that and make all aspects of the game more immersive and more interactive. -
Quote:Aren't videogames in general a "pointless shiny"?Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Personally I could do without the graphic update, although I realize it's a nice selling point for the legions of magpie gamers who are mesmerized by pointless shiny.
I'm totally looking forward to the graphics update, even though that means I'm going to have to buy a new computer for it! I was pretty much planning that anyways. -
I think it's humorously ironic that someone who wrote a story called "Real Life" would then go on to work on an MMORPG.
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I thought Scott Kurtz stopped playing CoH a million years ago, lol!
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Nemesis built his base in the Shadow Shard as part of one of his backup plans, in case his designs on the Rikti failed. Or perhaps he needed to spread his consciousness among every Rikti in their homeworld as a first step. His intentions are to replace Rularuu's aspects with his own automatons, and then later replace Rularuu with himself.
If he hasn't already done it. Remember when he tried to sign a non-aggression pact with the CoT?