Cognito

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They will give up funplay because they are doing it to improve another part of the game, character development, which they will actually use for funplay. See?

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Actually, not really. Does it actually improve the game having a more powerful character?. Cant see it myself. All cotent can be done on an average one. Character development? I cant see anything behind that.

Is a more powerful character more fun? Funnily enough, I find it marginally more dull.

Im not knocking farming here, im just trying to understand something I cannot empathise with.

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i do not agree here, having played SO/IO'd Characters(lvl 50's), and playing those characters fully slotted with Set IO's, there is a major difference( atleast on my builds), it also depends what you investing in, are you going for +Defense stats, +Recharge, +Regen or whatever +.., it makes a big difference, i would for no gold go back to playing my Characters with just normal IO's after i saw what a fully slotted with sets can do.
i have much more fun with me SHields/ice tanker, WM/Shields ,FIre/Wp brute , the difference is imense

Greetz Sha

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What I dont understand here: Personally the only significant challenge left in the game is the LRSF/STF, at least for reasonably built toons (cheapish IOs, sensible picks and slots). There are a few exeptions, like the vanguard, but overall, its pretty hard to find a significant challenge at high level even on highest difficulty.

Now, I like a reasonable challenge. Not ridiculously hard, but something where im not on autopilot.

Given the difficulty in finding a reasonable challenge as it stands... does ubering out with Purples actually increase your enjoyment of the game? Do you want it even easier???

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*sigh* Like I said...they want to improve their character for whatever reason it is. They will farm for x million inf to get that rare recipe, to maybe get the edge on Rommy in a ITF or just become more powerful in PvE.

They will give up funplay because they are doing it to improve another part of the game, character development, which they will actually use for funplay. See?

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Actually, not really. Does it actually improve the game having a more powerful character?. Cant see it myself. All cotent can be done on an average one. Character development? I cant see anything behind that.

Is a more powerful character more fun? Funnily enough, I find it marginally more dull.

Im not knocking farming here, im just trying to understand something I cannot empathise with.

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I still ponder the motivation for a) PL'ing and b) farming. Why? Just Why?

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a) Gets you to 50 quicker. It usually pops up when you've got 10 millions 50s and can't be bothered to work to get to 50 anymore, or if you're not bothered from the start. Not that there's anything wrong with that - people pay the game the way they want to play it.

b) To get a move on the CoX market. It all comes down to that they want to develop their character, really. They farm for inf to buy enhancements/recipes for their characters so they can improve them.

Seriously, it's not that hard to understand the motivation. Farming and PLing is in every MMO, if you don't understand the motivation, you go ask a farmer/PLer yourself or study what they do and what they do it for and you have the answer. By the first 5 minutes I think you'll understand...



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I totally understand its the most efficient way to get xp and inf in the game.

I dont understand why you would choose to give up funplay time for what is, in essence, the most dull part of the game.

I can just about understand PLing your first 50 in o rderto unlock the epics (although, having played the epics, it isnt worth it IMO).

I cant understand the inf thing to be honest? By the time I get to 50 the toon is kitted out with what it takes to make anything bar the LRSF/STF reasonably easy.

Its not as if inf buys you any significant advantage in PvP any more.

I suppose if there was a button I could press to double my xp / inf, I would think about pressing it, but only if I could still choose what to play. Farming, I cant.

I guess the game is just loosing its sparkle to me.

I still ponder the motivation for a) PL'ing and b) farming. Why? Just Why?

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So long as the changes don't mess up perma-doms too much, then people will be fine. Personally, if they made a toon i've spent a massive amount of inf and time on worthless, i'de probs be looking for another game.

One thing I do have about buffing doms though, is that i LIKE the fact they are hard to get into and play. It takes a certain type of player to play them well and get the most out of them, and I'm quite happy with having an AT that doesn't appeal to all cos its and easy farming toon.

That said, they do need buffing so that being perma isn't the only way to make Domies good.

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You see, I totally appreciate that people who have invested a lot of energy in making perma-doms do not want it trifled with.

however, that doesnt really take away from the opinion that a perma-dom is broken.

Ultimately, given enough influence, a perma-dom is just head and shoulders above anything else in the game.

Mag 4 holds? Mez resistance? (Effectively) unlimited endurance? And a damage bonus on top?

If the game popped up an AT that could do that out of the box, CoX would laugh itself to death.

I appreciate that perma-doms need a lot of work to get perma, but the fact is that they can reach heights above any other AT eventually.

Im not even factoring the huge +recharge global bonus that a perma dom would have that would be quite magnificent in its own right - because every AT can have that.

Personally, whilst being sympathetic to people who have invested a lot in perma-doms, I think they need nerfing. They should still be super-awesome, but only as super-awesome as any other AT that has invested that amount of IO'ing.

Im all for buffing the "baseline" dominator, however.

Ill just chime in here and say end drain really shines when you have two end drainers (or more)

2 Short Circuits on a mob. 2 Elec blasters (or defenders, corruptors) fire it off simultaneously. Game over.

The thing is Short Circuit also causes a -100% recovery debuff, for 10 seconds. If two of these go off, anything but an EB or AV is just completely helpless for 10 seconds.. and base recharge is 20 seconds. So they may have 2 or 3 seconds of endurance recovery... but starting at zero endurance. And this isnt counting the effects of all the other elec powers.

Now factor in that pretty much nothing in CoX (enemy wise) has -recovery or -endurance resist.

If you really want to see elec shine, team with another 'leccy, or two. It turns from a "not bad" effect too "whoa!" effect.

IMO its potentially a very good change in PvP. You have to see it in the context of

a) Mez now is of very short duration, a couple of seconds max

b) Mez protection powers now function as Mez resistance. And the resistance cap is sky high. So your Mez toggle now reduces a mez from 2 to 1 second (for instance).

c) Purely defensive toggles carry on working even when Mez.

Overall,I like it. There is one huge problem IMO, in that Offensive toggles (like snowstorm for instance) are now gimptastic as they are detoggled almsot as quickly as you put them on.

To my mind, the simple solution of making Mez's NOT detoggle an offensive power but make them non-functional (like a PvE mez does to a sheild, for instance) would plaster up the last crack in this approach.

On a nice note, it is no longer required to enter a PvP zone with 20 break frees

Technically you may be right, but by putting 3 or 4 procs in hold you are really gimping your hold

IM scratching my head over that one too.

How is "the best peice of ADVICE I got was to GET STAMINA"

In anyway elitist? It specfically states it was ADVICE!

And probably the most important peice of build advice any of us could get as a new player.

Elitist?

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Im an Elitist and proud of it, i think my four and a half years of playing and 20 lvl 50s gives me that right.

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Everyone has a right to be elitist. Or to think they are elite. However, it dosent make them elite, whatever that word means anyway. For me, its polyfactoral and will of course include a judgement of that persons character.

And, of course, being elitist will have consequences. Personally, I cant see any significantly positive ones. Negative ones, I can see in abundance.

I for one dont give a hoot how many level 50s somebody has. There is a world of difference between a level 50 who has PuGd up to 50 experiencing a wide variety of situations and someone who sits in PI shouting "Looking for farms".

Incidentally, they are big green areas often populated with cattle animals and which grow foodstuffs.

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there are only a few Stam - less builds ..and try explaining End Reduc Enhancements and slotting takes way longer , as such slotting will change across levels .


Hmm may be i am a Stam elitist ..na couldnt be ..

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Couldn't disagree with you more. Hell, I took a PB all the way to level 50, as a triform, with neither Stamina OR EndRedux enhancements. Sure I had a little downtime between fights, but it certainly wasn't a problem.

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Although I agree Stamina is not essential, I think it is pretty essential for new players.

Even for experienced players, there are only a few builds I would consider NOT having it.

You bring up your Peacebringer as an example - which a) Is only available to more experienced players and b) has two forms available with inbuilt +recovery

Without some other form of end recovery (kinetics, energy armour, electric armour, etc etc) I would very rarely consider not getting stamina, even with my experience.

As it stands, every single one of my toons has stamina. WHilst I coulld technically omit it, its just makes playing a toon that much smoother.

Nothing is acbsolutely required, but there a few hints that will almost universally make playing a toon a lot more fun.

Sonic has the highest -res, interestingly, giving you 2 x -30% res debuffs.

Trick Arrow is second (and in some ways better due to more area) with a -20% small AoE and -20% huge AoE

I ppreciate COld has a -30% in sleet (which is effectively perma), and a -30% in Heat loss - but Heat loss has a Huge recharge, so most of the time TA and Sonic would come out ahead (but for AVs I guess you will be using those saved up long recharge powers).

Ive had some fun on my lvl 44 Ill/FF. Now, its hell solo, but otherwise good fun.

The combination of invisibility, PA, forcefeild, and teleport mean you can stealth most (non-kill all) missions. And yes, I include rescue / escorts. Rescue the innocent (confuse will weedle down any group), pop PFF, and run through all the mobs to the exit laughing whilst the innocent follows you.

Its worth remembering that forcefeild, with just three powers, gives the team 60% damage mitigation (30% def to all but psi) and status resistance. IMO thats pretty good.

The nature of FF means it frees up a lot of time to use your primary, you dont get mezzed either, and dont forget to use the devastation that is force bolt.

The downside. You need to get into the "bubbler mindset" of repeatedly buffing the team. If you cant cope with it, dont touch force feilds (or, indeed, sonic, cold, or thermal sets!)

I dont think anyone has quite got the size of issue 13 yet... but...

I beleive brutes were thought of as the tankbuster villain. The tank takes a long time to bring down, but takes some time pounding the enemy. Long protracted fight means brute gets huge fury bonus.

So I would be tempted to go for a brute myself. If he is Fire Armour/Superstrength, you probably are looking at Superstrength or Energy Mellee attack and Invulnerability or Will Power secondary.

Other option is a blaster, as you say, Ice/Ice would be nasty. Psi blast or Mental Manipulation would cut through his resistances too (and Psi blast might cause KB depending on how he has slotted his toon).

Very interesting thread.

Firtly, anybody, elite or new player who makes a mistake should not be persecuted. Quite frankly, nobody should bat an eyelid.

At a certain point repeated mistakes can edge into what can appear to be greifing. But I dont think your freind is getting anywhere near that, unless Im mising the mark. For instance, a scrapper repeatedly charging off solo and dragging a mob towards the rest of the team screaming "HEAL" (a classic) will start to annoy anybody.

As for builds, this is an interesting problem. I hold my hand up; I glance at everybodys build. Not in depth (heaven forbid I dont look at their IO powers to see how "1337" they are) but just to get an idea of how to play with them. A storm defender makes things a lot different to an Empath (for instance).

But, I confess, there are builds that get my goat. If a tank hasnt got taunt or (as I have seen) a taunt aura, I get irritated. Is that elitist? Maybe. In all honesty, however, I also confess to thinking tht certain "builds" indicating (not proving) a lack of teamsmanship. If a build is all about "me me me" with no powers helping other players, then I have noticed a tendency for the player to play like that. I usually reserve judgement, but there it is.

Lastly, I want to bring up another more difficult point about builds. I remember my first toon, and building it pretty chaotically. Some helpful chap politely pointed out "Get Stamina as soon as possible".

And Im very glad he did.

When I see a new player, Im stuck in a dilema. On the one hand, I really dont want to patronise him/her by telling him/her what to get. On the other hand, a few key pointers (like GET STAMINA) can be really helpful. I dont know what other people think about this.

I suppose the dilema also applies to play, occassionally. I remember I was oncein a small team of new players, around level 5-8, who were sucking wind a lot. I noticed that they were all running sprint whilst fighting, and I suggested, politely, that its agood idea to turn that off whist fighting. One or two players got the hump and gave me an ear bashing.

So Im not talking about "ZOMG u n00b u have to slot flamethrower with two range and one accuracy" (or whatever). Stuff that. But a few very basic pointers can really make a difference to a toon, and possibly keep that player in the game. Dilema... Dilema....

May be worth knowing that alongside ED, endurance cost for all powers was reduced by something like 15-20% (cant recall exactly). This was basically because slotting stamina past 3 slots became pretty pointless.

From your original post, its generally accepted that powers like haste and stamina (which you can only boost one thing on) shouldnt be more than three slotted. The same probably applies to build up and aim (unless you REALLY need accuracy, which you shouldnt).

ED was highly contravertial, yes, but without it, I seriously doubt CoX would still be running.

Oddly enough, the electricity of ECT has zero therapeutic effect. Its a controlled seizure that seems to help.

Isnt food and sleep a necessity for life?

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And I think I'm gonna metion Westin Phipps. The guy is so cruel, he's bordering on insane.

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Utter psychopath (probably largely primary). Treatable? No chance! Into prison for life!

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To actually get "Locked up" in an Asylum under British Law requires a treatable mental disorder.

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I'm not sure that's the case in the US.

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Im no expert on US Law, but I think its a messy mess differing in varying states. If anything however, the US is even stricter in its criteria about when you can involuntarily treat mental illness; and, contraty to hollywood spin, it is even harder to "get off" a crime due to mental disorder (and its hard enough here)

Im pretty sure I havent encountered an "enemy" with technical mental illness yet.

To actually get "Locked up" in an Asylum under British Law requires a treatable mental disorder. Mental disorder can include personality disorder, but really the bulk of PD goes straight to prison.

But insane? I cant think of one case in CoX. (Im exluding non-human intelligences, cant really call them sane or insnae). The closest (human) is probably Malaise?. Probably a good thing too - it would be handled badly and probably stigmatise.

2 levels away from a level 50 of every AT now (no powelevels, no farms). Admittedly, havent done fortuna or bane - well, got dual builds for these, but havent really played them.

So, I guess I can play everything. However, I can pretty easy rank them in terms of how fun they are:

Scrappers: 1/10
Armours on. Cycle attacks. zzzzz. One to play when you are half asleep,or need to get some sleep.
Brutes: 2/10
A significant step up due to fury bar, but still boils down to much the same.
Stalkers: 3/10
Getting vaguely interesting now due to AS, but still only scrappers with a solitary knob on.
Tanks: 4/10
0/10 solo, of course, but the way the command the action in teams can reveal hidden depths.
Blasters: 5/10
Not much to them than damage, but their squish factor and positioning for AoE and blapping can make them spicy.
Defenders: 6/10
Suprisingly low. Whilst their primary can be exciting, thats it. Blasting for them is pure yawn.
Corruptors: 7/10
An amalgamation of blasters and defenders means they edge up higher than either.
Masterminds: 8/10
A close run thingwith corruptors, can be more dull at times, but keeping a tactical eye on minions can stretch.
Dominators: 9/10
The class, the skill, the style. Now we are really talking where skill comes into play.
Controllers: 10/10
The king of the hill. Busy, powerful, pure class. The AT for those who can combine situational awareness, button mashing, reflexes, tactics. Well, everything really.

And Epics?

Peacebringers: 5/10
Suprisingly dull but not hopeless. They arent really quite as complex as they are made out to be.
Warshades: 8/10
Much richer overall than peacebringers, normally fun to play.
Crab Spiders:6/10
Great AT, but basically not a lot more interest than blasters.
Widows: 4/10
Rather dull really, just stalkers with a few extra knobs on.

What would I play again? Anything really. But to really feel connected to a toon it would have to score 5+ on above scale. Otherwise its just occassional dust offs. Anything 7+ is what appeals to me now (Corruptors, Dominators, Warshades, COntrollers, Masterminds)

Its a shame really, because I prefer heroside.

EIDT: Bother. Replied to wrong thread!

I would agree with you actually, Nerfing/Buffing is mainly done by Devs and their IT resources.

However, it is quite clear in the history of the game that when players have clamoured for buffs of something, they listen and relook at the set. They have also specifically asked for feedback in beta's about whether testers think a new set is balanced.

Personally I think almost everything on the boards is, for a Dev, complete drivel. About the only thinh they may consider from a Dev's point of veiw is ideas on how to change something they have decided needed changing. The "stealth nerf" being the classic example.

Its pretty rubbish, but heck you should see my signature.