Charnell

My friend has been playing CoX on Mac but a couple of times she hasnt got the exit button at the ends of missions.

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Every tank and brute with Ss can get TWO ranged attacks.
Tanks can get laser beam eyes that kill a fort or nw very very very fast since laser beam eyes has a huge dedebuff.

With a bit of recharge those 2 ranged attacks can be spammed as an attack chain, giving SS a ranged attack chain boosted by rage and or fury which deal heavy damg.

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You have actually done this or seen it done? Sounds great in theory. Brute maybe during stacked rages. Tanker will still be missing at least 50% of the time and it just wont compare to the spike of a Fort imo.

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So they get a ranged attack chain aswell if they want. on top of 3 times the HP AND like 6 times the resists nw or forts get.

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Really im starting to feel like a parrot here. Unless the tanker or brute has high defence the Fort will chew through any amount of HPs quickly. I have had this done to 3 different tankers. Granite went down quickest too.

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Of course your bs/regen has problems hitting a fort or nw cause thats the POINT of defensive sets, since when a hit lands it hits a char without resists, and when it hits the defdebuff gets a defensive set into big trouble, since a cascade effect starts, till you hit all time.

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Again another brilliant theory. Unfortunately unrelated to the actuality. I can hit maybe 1 in 8 times. The -def goes nowhere and your imaginary -def cascade is just that. And even if by some fluke you can get a cascade all they have to do is phase or mitigate in some other way and its back to full.

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If every player with every set could hit defensive sets easily, there would be no point for defensive sets in pvp..

Maybe players need to attack 3 or 4 times to land a hit but when the hit lands it deals FULL damg, to a char WITHOUT an inherent heal and low hps.

You might land every hit on a meele toon like tanker or brute, but most got a heal with NO diminishing returns 3 times the HP and 60% resists, which means even if all your attacks hit, you need as many attacks to kill those chars since your attacks deals way less damg to them.

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You are aware Arcanville himself believes the current implementation of elusivity is not working as intended? Elusivity in itself would work but combined with all the other rubbish they implemented it has become hugely overpowered.
Again your theory doesnt work in actuality. Two brutes fight. One with defence set and one resist. My money is on the defence set. Yes defence should deflect attacks. But atm it is way op compared to resists. I prefered defence pre i13.

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I think PvP is better overall now in I13, but still needs tuning.

While they balanced (nerfed) some totally overpowered sets, they made several sets unplayable cause they got nerfed too much.

Imo many of the former overpowered chars had to get nerfed(balanced) to bring them on par with all the other sets, but some sets got nerfed way too much i admit that.

While some sets are now a bit too good in PvP compared to ALL the sets and combos out there, i think PvP is more balanced overall.

If they buff the "broken" Ats and sets, like /rad or doms or most troller primaries and balance some other stuff, pvp should be almost perfect, imo.

I see much more players in PvP zones now than before I13 so at least some seem to like the changes.

I understand that some pre I13 harcore pvpers are angry that their toons got nerfed in PvP, i would be angry too i think.

But honestly there were some specific AT and set combos which were so overpowered that pvp wasnt fun for all others cause those sets and combos meant certain defeat....

Its more balanced now , not perfect but more balanced comparing ALL ATs and ALL sets or combos.

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How on earth can you believe i13 to be balanced? It is more unbalanced than ever before. The zones are emptier than I have ever seen them. Which zones are busier? What toons do u use in RV?

And what are you talking about op toons pre i13??? How on earth you continue to mangle reality to believe that Forts arent op is astonishing. There were powerful builds. There were FOTM. Nothing was on the level of Forts and defence toons currently. Em outperformed other melee sets but not on the same level SS is now.

Nothing whatsoever has been improved. Zone mobs are incredibly irritating. Movement is just frustrating now. And if the revamp was such a success how come you are the lone voice in the wilderness? Even the Devs havent spoken a single word about pvp since release.

And your rubbish about harcore pvpers being angry about their toons getting nerfed is just ridiculous. No one was ever bothered about that. They ruined a lot of the fun aspects of pvp and replaced it with a frustrating mess. If they had a toon that was nerfed beyond repair they either rolled a new toon or respecced old ones and continued to be good pvpers.

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To say NOTHINg can compete on equal skill is just the way it is.

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Edited for correctness

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As you said you killed a fort on your spines/sr scrapper 3 times and the fort killed you 5 times, that doenst sound as if the fort was totally unbeatable (you said yourself your werent the best pvper either)

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<big sigh>
Did I say I was playing against the "best pvp'r in the world" ?

No .. I was playing someone of about the same skill level as myself, someone who I had beaten on the same toon pre I12. And I got 3 kills due to TS when ripper actually hit through.

I'm not the best, but I'm certainly no slouch either.

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So your "fact" is proven wrong by your own earlier statement :-)

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Again, miss-quoting and putting words in my mouth. Getting bored of this to be honest.

Someone else's turn to try and talk sense into this person, if they feel the effort is worth it.

Fahie

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Lol didnt missquote you at all.
Your last post proves you didnt read mine, or didnt understand it since your post now again provesand makes it even clearer, your statement was wrong.

You said nothing competes with a fort on even skill and build.
Same time you say you killed one of equal skill 3 times.... doesnt make sense, since it indicates you CAN compete with a fort of equal skill and build.
Nothing can compete means NOTHING can kill a fort, which is wrong SS toons can easily and your spines/sr was able to do it too.(does your spines/sr have focused accuracy ?)

Just because you beaten him before i13 all time and now you only win 40% of the time doesnt mean the fort is overpowered now, just implies its more even.

Funny how you twist your own earlier statments so they fit your theory, and if you cant twist them any longer you getting bored :-)

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You seem to be basing all your opinions on figures. Have you actually fought forts/widows?
You are completely wrong about bs scrappers. My bs/regen has had at least 200+ million inf spent on it. It has sets in every power that accepts them. It HAS FOCUSED ACCURACY and it stuggles to hit forts/widows. Plus in reality no fort/widow or any half decent player stands toe to toe fighting. They move around further limiting your ability to land a string of blows. While at the same time the veat can and does pour a huge amount of ranged damage onto you.

Yes defence hits DR and mids doesnt show it. I am well aware of that fact. Even 32% defence in pvp is very good at blocking attacks. The soft cap is 42.5% anyway. Anything over that serves no purpose other than mitigating -def debuffs.

And why repeatedly reference SS as being a veat killer? It is better obviously as it is the best melee pvp set being as OP as it is now. Again SS isnt ranged and you need that fort to stay still long enough to rain an attack chain on them and as I said only the poorest player would let you do that.

Rads were very powerful pre i13. In a duel yes they were probably one of the best sets. In a larger conflict though they became good but I wouldnt say OP.

What ultimately are you arguing for? You believe i13pvp is an improvement?

LoL nice build gamete.
Illustrates my point perfectly. Gonna take some serious heavy duty -def to even take it below the softcap I imagine.

Do u go in RV with that build? Whats you nick? Ill stay the hell away from that lol.

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Seriously how can anybody argue that forts and widows arent op? A decent build and half decent player can have a basically unkillable toon with a very respectable ranged attack chain. Add on top all the veat trimmings like mezzes and huge mez resists and all the other mitigation and self buff powers.

The perfect example of the mess the devs made with i13 pvp.

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Odd you mention veats cause banes and crabs suck in pvp...

Btw you got a SS brute and you know that SS negates defenseive sets almost entirely, making them easy kill targets, since they have no resists to rely on if defenses fails....

Do i say SS is op in PvP cause it can kill defensive sets without probs because rage is totally op in pvp even in its nerfed state ?

Nope since there are still sets SS isnt good against...
There are still sets nightwidows or forts arent good against like rad or /rad, forts can detoggle the /rad debuffs, nightwidows cant.


Forts and NW dont have defdebuff resists, and therefore are very vulnerable to defdebuffs... and there are tons and tons of sets with defdebuffs.


Just pick toons with the right sets to counter and negate forts or nw strenghts...
If you fight a /fire tanker or /fire brute with a fire attack set you will suck big time , same goes for fighting an /elec armor with energy attacks or /invul with smashing/lethal.... is /elec and /fa or /invul op because of that ? NO

get a /storm or /sonic or /ta or rad/ defender,
get munitions mastery and take surveillance on a blaster,
get a SS tank with laser beam eyes(which kills forts and nw very very fast cause they hit most time and laserbeam eyes got defdebuff in it too)
get an earth/ or /ta or /rad or /storm troller
get a broadsword/ spines/ dualblades/ or katana/ scrapper

Take focused accuracy on a tank or scrapper and the problem is solved without any defdebuffs at all.

ALL those sets have some or many defdebuff powers in them allowing them to debuff nw or forts defenses.

Are there many sets which can debuff resistance ? NO
Are there many sets that can debuff Defense ? Hell yeah

Sure defense is better than resists for damg migitation but it HAS to be since it can be debuffed and overcome far easier than resists.

Out of elude nw and especially fort defenses arent that good, not softcapped at all.

If pl cant hit through the denfeses with buildup, chances are several players are targeting the same fort or nw and therefore increasing the elusivity she gets.

Ever tried killing a tanker ?
Its almost impossible for a single char no matter what At or sets, if Forts and Nw are op , tankers are op even more... cause unlike forts and nw they got no real weak spot

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Do you actually pvp?
And no just taking FA does not solve the problem whatsoever. My bs has FA and some acc bonuses from sets and max acc slotted in attacks and still struggles to hit widows/forts. And the def debuff is pretty irrelevant. You need a sustained string of attacks to make it count and that is pretty rare.

A fort can destroy a tanker very quickly. One killed my stoney in granite and another granite in about 20 seconds.

one v one the are the ultimate build. Roll a rad. If the fort doesnt spike you instantly and you actually manage to hurt them they can just pop phase>aid self and be back hurting you in a short space of time.

The gank code was removed so that is incorrect.

Nice wall of text but defence, ss forts etc ARE op. I pvp pretty much every day in RV and these facts are obvious and no amount of incorrect number crunching will change this.

Seriously how can anybody argue that forts and widows arent op? A decent build and half decent player can have a basically unkillable toon with a very respectable ranged attack chain. Add on top all the veat trimmings like mezzes and huge mez resists and all the other mitigation and self buff powers.

The perfect example of the mess the devs made with i13 pvp.

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The only blasters that will deal amazing dmg from range now is psy and sonic. A sonic/em in a zone is something to watch out for, the damage is ridiculous.

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Blaster were totally overpowered in pre I13 pvp.

They can still kill most stalkers, doms and veats masterminds and corr without problem, cant see anything underpowerd there.

I guess the pre I13 pvp blasters are just sry that they cant kill EVERY class now like they were able to before.

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Fire/em was op pre i13. Now its Sonic/em. Only thing blasters are sry about is lvling up a new toon. And pre i13 sonic blasters were starting to pop up quite a lot anyway. Psi seems decent too.

And imo forts are way worse now than fire/em ever was. At least you could hit a fire/em.

Well inspirations are fine. I dont mind not using them in a duel though. Say brute vs scrapper or suchlike. But pre i13 i would just laugh at domi's or controllers who wanted no-insp duels.

I13 pvp though is so wildly unbalanced they are of little or no use really. Pop greens! oh. Pop BF's! oh yeh they do nothing.
Only insps worth stocking in pvp now are lucks really.

There are still a few tier9s and godmodes that have some effect in duels. Elec armours tier9 makes it quite tough while it is up. Then a duel tends to turn into a game of surviving long enough till the godmodes drop.

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It's kind of a comfort to me that I now know he won't bother reading any more of this thread.

"I don't bother reading any more of a thread when people just start whining."
"Quick everyone! START WHINING!"

Yeah. We know how to bait a hook over here in Europe!

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Yeh well i tried constructive feedback and got completely ignored so what have i got to lose?

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I just hope this doesn't get people thinking that if you whine loud enough, the Devs will do anything they want.

That's what the WoW Devs do.

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With me having far less time to read the forums (on both sides of the pond!) being a lot less, when I see a thread start turning into a whine-fest or a [censored] session, I stop reading it. If it keeps up, I might do spot checks again a week or so later, but in general, my days of reading every single post on a given topic are gone. Part of me mourns that; another part is relieved.

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I guess that means you skipped most of the I13 PvP feedback threads then

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Someone had to say that :P
Its a pity with so little time on his hands he chose to make time for a trivial badge over pvp which a lot of people are upset about.

OMG he has cleared up the REFORMED badge debacle!!!
About time!

Now that the big issues have been dealt with maybe we could get some words about pvp v2.0?

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Ahh, swearing, so many views, so personal. I was talking with a friend about this today as we decided as New Zealanders we swear more than the English do. Or at least find it less offensive.

I'm not sure I can have a conversation with my friends without swearing. It's not gratuitious, it's just some of the best adjectives are swearwords. They are so very versitile.

In game, I tend to reserve swearing for those F*** Me! occasions. If I'm in a team of friends I may swear a little more, but I tend not to swear when typing.

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I have a new zealand friend. A builder no less. He is pretty polite actually. We do live in the north of england though.

What is going on with these constant threads about profanity? Is there really that much happening in the game? I play far too much CoX and have never noticed any huge problems with profanity. Its a 16+ game and there is enough protection in game for people who prefer not to see profanity. Filter, ignore, leave/kick etc..

Why are people so quick to be offended by such irrelevances? Of course no one "needs" to swear. We dont "need" to play CoX.
What people do "need" is to have fun. Profanities are a great way to make all sorts of things a little more exciting.

Maybe start the anti profanity crusades in places where people dont have swear-filters or the option to /ignore?
Next time I am in my local pub I could start asking people to refrain from profanities in my earshot? Or start dropping comments that people only swear because they have a limited vocabulary or low intelligence?

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I am afraid not - the changes were primarily aimed at the Arena, with Zone changes coming later.

Castle's post on PvP changes

Further, to quote a section of his post...

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We wanted to spend time working on revamps for the existing PvP zones; but due to the massive amount of work involved we’ll need to address this in a future release. That meant that we had to focus almost entirely on Base Raids and Arena PvP. We did a lot of work on Bases, Raiding and the Cathedral, but we have to save that for later -- those are all works in progress for a future update. Arena PvP, though, was a self contained area which could be isolated and worked with. It also provides an excellent testbed for Base Raids, since the two are at least in the most basic terms similar. That's where we focused our attention.


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But the devs then later said that was an outdated post and that things had changed a lot. Then they sacked LH and never said another word about pvp. Nothing beyond a community dev trying to calm the storm down. Unless you can find anything close to an answer or statement beyond blah blah pvp has been revamped.

I would take that to mean that pvp has just shot to the bottom of the to do list and they will never speak about it ever again.

I agree! What we need is a PVE revamp similar to the excellent revamp PVP just got.

Then all the disgruntled PVP'ers can taunt from the sidelines with "CRY MOAR!" and "ADAPT OR DIE!" while the devs steadfastly ignore any sensible calls to hold back on ill conceived and ham fisted changes.

Well now that the inherent actually makes some sense and the ability to dwarf out of mez, dwarf is now a great form.
It can actually do some damage. PB still seems a little better for tanking but the change to ws dwarf mire makes it a little better for psuedo tanking.

In my experience when tanking now you can use the dwarf for alpha and now it isnt always instant death to flip form to something else as if you are mezzed just switch back to dwarf.

Its just a pity the devs couldnt have used the same approach they applied to khelds to the pvp revamp. Ie - listening to player feedback then applying common sense and testing it properly.

15.01 here WW not working for last 15 minutes

The greatest comedy pvp moment - i13


Maybe more tragicomedy.

Why only this game?

In the past 4 weeks I have played WAR,WOW,Perfect World,Runes Of Magic,SWG,EVE and others i cant remember.
Apart from runes which is in beta the others were fine. No lag to speak of beyond the odd spike in overly populated areas in a couple of games.

How many UK users are suffering from lag?

Since i resubbed I have had instanced mission lag ranging from minor to extreme.
Nothings changed on my end from last year. Same install, same pc and same net.

Also since I let my sub run out I have tried a lot of other MMOs. Say 10+ and not had lag like this in any of them.

Well since i deleted my last WS at 42 I made another prior to i13. Left it parked at 24.
Been a total blast. Overall play experience is hugely improved. I must concede that human form mez prot is fine.

And now the inherent finally works

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It normally take around 130-180 hours for me, depending on
AT, powersets and team availability...

My fastest was my Energy/Elec Brute...
It took me 109 hours, or 1½ week. I soloed all the way,
except for teaming up 7 times. No double XP involved...
Needless to say I didn't do much else those 1½ week...

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Yeh I did around the same on a wp/ss brute just before i12 as I wanted VEAT. Finished the day before i13 went live lol.
Gotta say brute was by far the easiest to lvl. Just hammer missions - build fury, win.

But other toons can vary from 200 hours up to 350. As long as its fun i dont mind :P

Naw thats me.
I respecd my fire/fire tanker into a pvp 2.0 spec. ie. similar to a blaster: ranged attacks being main part of attack chain, lower resists than a blaster, more hp.

Then had a few fights. Dominators are completely laughable. Got a few kills but ended up playing like a blaster. Its just wrong.

I love the way Devs have balanced fly by making it uber.

Tbh i just got [censored] of with the mobs in the zone. That isnt fun. Truthfully they were annoying before but now i find them unbearable. Anytime anything remotely fun starts to happen your enemy runs you through some mobs and you just get hammered and mezzed.

Well im not gonna list all the things I dont like. My account will probably run out before i finish anyway.
This just doesnt feel like fun anymore to me.

Ty to all you ppl who have fought alongside and against me in SC and RV. Well the few who are still active.

See you in Champions Online :P

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After some fighting in union RV, I have to say that I like how the changes affect large-scale zone pvp. Since people dont die instantly its more enjoyable as a whole and feels more immersive too. Suppression seems to work ok as well, although I noticed lots of people didnt like it.

However, Im sure serious 1v1 is going to be blown to hell. And I wont take pvp seriously anymore.

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PvP2=Phase or die

Just as messy as it was on test.
Gonna have another go in RV tonight. Respec some toons for pvp2.0 and see if it is any better.
Ie. spec out all the now useless powers - Offensive auras, instant healing, PFF and some of the tier9s.
Obviously I'll finally have to take phase after previously avoiding as I always felt it was a cheap power.

And the mobs are now insultingly powerful. I stood in a bunch of lb yesterday and waited for a stalker to attack. He died almost instantly after the AS. Funny in a sad way.

Make or break for me tho. My sub is up tomorrow and unless I suddenly see some light at the end of the tunnel its the end for me

Underwhelming afaik.

BIGGEST BIG issue ever turns out to be two new powersets, QoL tweaks and a horrid new pvp system.

While nowhere near a hardcore pvp'er I enjoyed about half my game time in pvp zones and arena. And PVP 2.0 is far worse than I feared. I still fail to understand how that abortion is friendlier to newbs.

And beyond that I have little or no interest in MA. I pay for someone else to create the content.

Shields and Pain Domi are shiny but I just feel very little interest in re-subbing.

I spent thanksgiving in seattle once.
Was really BORING for me. Every single person stays in and eats those stupendously huge turkeys. 99% of shops and bars close.

Basically a second xmas day.