Carnifax

Sorry for butting in. You're probably right about the tohit debuffs. I'd 3 slot them, on the assumption I'd be the only accuracy debuff. Its funny, a team of Fires could almost floor accuracy with Smoke alone!

Actually I'm butting in to praise Cereberus' avatar mostly. Very cool. Seamlessly loops too.

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So smoke, TA, GW PPP all have an acc debuff about 5%.


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So I believe.

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In which case they all suck and is only useful for looking cool.


[/ QUOTE ] Well they are -perception powers. Good for setting up the mobs beforehand or stopping the nearby one extra gropup spotting you as you take out the first group. Also handy for PvP I believe.

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Or we the player have missed something when it comes on how accuracy work in game and those measly 5% actully does a huge difference. THis isn't making much sense.

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Well it makes about the same difference as the +def bonuses of Invis (which is also 5%). Won't make a huge difference but may make a slight one, especially since its a wide AOE. They are low tier, tiny End costing, huge AOE auto-hit powers with a quick recharge. You get what you pay for I suppose.

Personally I wouldn't bother with Hotfeet for a dominator. No Containment bonus and no support secondary to boost it in any way or to keep yourself safe in melee.

Had it with a lowbie Fire/Thorns and it just ate End for little return.

On my Fire/Rad its fantastic though, even though I've Imps now too. If End gets tight it goes off for a while but normally I can have Hotfeet, Choking Cloud, RI and EF running happily, especially when AM is also up

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Nah, Flash arrow has one of the better values of all acc debuffs. Don't know the exact values (as usual) but heard number ranging between 8% and 15% and considering how FA works I'd go for the higher number.

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Hmmmm. quoted as 5% (for controllers) in a few Trick Arrow guides I've read, thats fully slotted with SOs I thought. To the Grav / TA thread ...

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5% doesn't sound like much but this a PPP so you'd think that they are good.

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, because most PPP powers r teh übah.... <.< >.> >.<

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Hehe.. In other words Smoke sucks but so does all such powers cept for Flash arrow...

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Flash Arrow from Trick Arrow? Thats exactly like smoke. The accuracy debuff is about 5% too isn't it?

Smoke is handy for getting close enough to get your imps on them without them alphaing you.

*Sigh* I wish the devs would just post the bloody numbers up and not have us floundering in the dark.

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Forget Disorientate, Immobilize & Holds, as much as they are the bread and butter of Controllers, only Fear & Confusion are 99% reliable.

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Let me explain:

"Disorientate, Immobilize & Holds, ... are the bread and butter of Controllers" - all those powers are common place to controlling your enemy and are key to that. However, there are many mobs that are immune to the various effects of those elements. I am not saying they are rubbish and should be ignored; my point is that you cannot count on a mob being susceptable.

"Fear & Confusion are 99% reliable" - most mobs can affected by these status effects. Note I did not say ALL and that there is an element that are just plain immune to those effects. However, the bulk are not and the reason is because Fear/Confuse are not TRUE holds.

Fear has the disadvantage to allowing an enemy a reciprocal attack and Confuse means the mob is running around, attacking people.

When controlling, the point is to stop mobs from attacking your allies. Since Fear only generates an attack when you attack them first, it fulfills this criteria (AOEs notwithstanding). Confuse is the same.

This basically boils down to the difference between a hold (which has a general greater per centage of being defended against) and a controlling status effect (which, while not quite as good, fulfills the same role and has a better chance of being effective)}.

Do you see what I'm driving at? Fear/Confuse is more reliable as far as AFFECTING a mob and is therefore more reliable at controlling. While it isn't as effective as a containment, it still controls.

So I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just using a different measurement (i.e. controlling versus containing).

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Ok. Most robots are immune to Fear. nemises are resistant to both Fear & Confuse.

I don't know of anyone immune to holds. Bosses need them two-stacked and AVs are very resistant to them but they're just as resistant to fear & confuses. In fact Immobs are better against most bosses and AVs since they tend to be Mag 4 and the AV Purple Triangles don't protect against it.

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When controlling, the point is to stop mobs from attacking your allies.

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I don't agree with this either I'm afraid. Thats one aspect of Control. However offensive control, immobing them in a massive debuff patch so they can't hit / take more damage is a just as valid one, especially later in the game.

Using Control powers as the set-up for a massive Containment one-two with an AOE is equally useful, especially with epics.

Defensive control is very useful too but, especially in the end game when Tanks and Defenders are just as capable of neutering a group as you are, offensive control becomes very handy. And Fear isn't any good for that. Confuse adds a little firepower to your side but not a lot really.

I think Lift knocks flyers out of the skies too.

But a double immob might be of use against AVs and in PvP. And DoT or not doesn't matter. Lift has that annoying delay in dealing the damage anyway. Plus since they're normally netted when I Lift the Knockup doesn't occur anway

Reckon I'll remake with Crush.

Looking at TA again I see both the net & glue have -recharge effects too. Thats nice too, esp for PvP.

*Edit :
Home now so heres my sample build up to 40

---------------------------------------------
Exported from Ver: 1.7.6.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder - (http://sherksilver.coldfront.net/index.php)
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Name:
Level: 40
Archetype: Controller
Primary: Gravity Control
Secondary: Trick Arrow
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01) --> Crush==> Acc(1) Dmg(5) Dmg(13) Dmg(13)
01) --> Entangling Arrow==> Acc(1)
02) --> Gravity Distortion==> Acc(2) Hold(3) Hold(3) Dmg(5) Dmg(9) Hold(15)
04) --> Glue Arrow==> Rechg(4) Rechg(15)
06) --> Propel==> Acc(6) Dmg(7) Dmg(7) Dmg(9) Acc(17)
08) --> Hover==> Fly(8)
10) --> Ice Arrow==> Acc(10) Hold(11) Hold(11) Hold(17)
12) --> Swift==> Run(12)
14) --> Fly==> Fly(14)
16) --> Health==> Heal(16)
18) --> Gravity Distortion Field==> Acc(18) Hold(19) Hold(19) Rechg(25) Rechg(25) Acc(34)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Acid Arrow==> Acc(22) Acc(23) Rechg(23)
24) --> Crushing Field==> Acc(24)
26) --> Wormhole==> Acc(26) DisDur(27) DisDur(27) DisDur(29) Rechg(29) Rechg(31)
28) --> Disruption Arrow==> Rechg(28) Rechg(37)
30) --> Hasten==> Rechg(30) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
32) --> Singularity==> Hold(32) Hold(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(33) Dmg(34) Hold(34)
35) --> Oil Slick Arrow==> Dmg(35) Dmg(36) Dmg(36) Rechg(36) Rechg(37) Rechg(37)
38) --> EM Pulse Arrow==> Hold(38) Rechg(39) Rechg(39) Rechg(39)
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Sprint==> Empty(1)
01) --> Brawl==> Empty(1)
01) --> Containment==> Empty(1)
02) --> Rest==> Empty(2)
---------------------------------------------
Took Hover / Fly for dealing with Wormhole knockback as per Mr Cuddles suggestion before on how to deal with Lightning Storm... Just be above the target when firing it off.

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mass confuse is longer range, higher target limit, longer duration(?) and doesn't cause aggro, unlike seeds.

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And that's the list of why its one of the best "Crowd Control" powers in the game. Forget Disorientate, Immobilize & Holds, as much as they are the bread and butter of Controllers, only Fear & Confusion are 99% reliable.


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Eh? Fear isn't 100% reliable at all. Mobs can attack you back if you attack them and can scurry off if hurt badly enough. And Confuse lets them run off and start attacking a second group if they like.

For Telekinesis it mightn't make too much of a difference alright, except you've got pin-point accuracy and its unsurpressed (so you can do Hold > TP very quickly).

For Hurricane TP is much better though.

Why did you go Lift instead of Crush (I did too and am considering switching already).

You're right about AS. Even at the lowbie level of 4 I found kiting mobs with Net, Lift & Grav Distort seems to be the way to go. Plus no good -acc powers to help me survive melee.

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Sister of Mersey - scouse nurse gone bad

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Nice toon name.

The defense bonus isn't nice. Its next-to-useless nowadays I'm afraid. Plus all those Radiant Infections, nothing is going to be hitting you anyway. Certainly if they don't save you the 5% defense bonus from GI won't.

Since you have Assult I'd get Tactics instead maybe?

Or Spectral Wounds?

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With Hover Terra Volta is easy.
It is the best catch up power of the 3. Superspeed in missions means I can catch up fast. It needs no extra slots.

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it's easy with just superspeed too... you just need to know the way!

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Getting out of the canyon bit is really annoying with jst SS (possible though, activated my long-lost Manic Miner / Chuckie Egg 2 skills and got out eventually).

I'm thinking of respecing my Kinetics to Hover, Siphon Speed and IR too. Currently Fly & Siphon are how I get around but I reckon IR is more fun. Plus I can go to the Hollows and offer the lowbies Soloths Bouncy Fun Ride with it (hmmm. might need to rename that though).

With Poison Arrow are the ones that just get debuffed aggroed on you? The Containment isn't really an issue, Grav has 3 AOE containment powers anyway (Crush Field, Grav distort field, Wormhole).

I'm also thinking of getting the Medicine pool, primarily for Aid Self.

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Glue Arrow is about the worst possible example, since it is both targeted an location based.

You have to target the mob, but it actually drops a location pseudo-pet at the feet of the target, and proceeds to affect everything within the aoe radius for the duration. Hence if the original target can move out of the aoe they are no longer affected, new targets can move into the aoe, and you can stack glue arrows.

Acid and Poison gas work the way you discribe however.

Oil Slick and disruption are strieghforward location aoes, however oil slick can only be targeted on the ground, wheras disruption can be located in the air.


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Ah. It fooled me. I could see an area AOE but my brain was thinking "No you've targetted someone with it, it must be 'fire and forget' like Lingering Rad or something"

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Oil Slick continues to do knockup when it burns, however it doesn't seem to knock up as reliably as an Ice Patch (I dunno if it ticks more slowly, it has a probablility assigned which is lower, or it is just my imagination).

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Ok. So hopefully my AOE immob will deal with it. Not actually planning to get the AOE immob until the 20s since I've no AOE damage / disorientate until 26 anyway, unlike the Fire controller who benefitted from Flashfire & Hotfeet early on.

I skipped Crush because I've Net Arrow for immob Okton, no choice, and I thought Lift may do more damage than Crush? Looking on No Future I think I'm wrong here.

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Except for Gravity's AoE immob (and Tenebrous Tentacles iirc)

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Exactly why I'm wondering about Oil Slick so much. A fally down burn patch they can't escape. Mmmmmm. With 2 resist debuffs also stacked on them. *drools*

Can you TA experts shed some light on the targetting & how the AOEs work. For example Glue Arrow is a targetting AOE, everyone gets auto-hit by it and is then slowed, rather than being Location based it seems. Are the rest like this? Once you've hit them with the AOE of the power they're debuffed for the duration regardless of how they scatter or if they move off the current location?

Also with Oil Slick (which I'm guessing is a placeable AOE) when it goes up is it basically a Burn patch? Do they still slip or is that effect removed?

Flash is basically Fire Controls smoke isn't it? 5% acc debuff? Thats what I though anyway, if its a decent bonus then I'll use it. Was worried about having no decent -acc power in the set alright.

I'm sorta sick of Air Sup (heresy!) and with Lift and Propel I'm not sure it'll fit into an attack chain. It is nice with Containment and would fit the theme (all my midget robot squad have it so far). Fly is very annoying after a while though (except for the option for smoke breaks which comes in handy).

Haste & SS maybe, just to get them arrow debuffs as close to perma as poss (going on the fairly slow recharge of Glue Arrow yesterday)?

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I wouldn't care so long as they still burn baby burn.


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Made sure I had my Tech taser especially for this

I reckon I'm skipping the Hollows this time around and going for Kings. I think I'd be better off starting fighting smaller more powerful groups compared to the Hazard sized spawns my Fire / Rad thrived on.

So my first Union char is a Tech Grav / TA controller. Liked the sound of Grav and didn't want to replay storm so TA appealled to me. No build but I'd welcome one.

In Grav I'm thinking :
Lift, Grav Distort, Propel, Crush Field, Grav Dist Field, Wormhole & Sing

TA:
Entangle, Glue, Ice, Acid, Disruption, Oil Slick & EMP

Couple of questions :
Crushing Field & Oil slick. Given that Crushing Field (AOE Immob) doesn't stop knockback I assume they'll slip up but be unable to move?

Ice Arrow : Worth getting? I have the idea that it could be nice for boss crushing. Ice Arrow > Gravity Distortion > Propel > Lift seems like a nasty little chain. Solo it means 2 minions held while the 3rd gets netted and Propel > Lifted.

Any ideas on Travel Power would be appreciated too. And peoples experience of using this without stamina.

Good story, I enjoyed it a lot.

The fact he's having to rebuild the suit again makes for a plausible reason why he's gone from super-powerful to a lowbie on the Islands too and how he's slowly climbing back up the ladder.

*whispers*
Honsou is part of the Elite Denible Anti-Nerf Bat Squad (Controller Division).

Move along citizen. Nothing to see here...

*out loud*
Man, Fire / Rad controllers suck too.

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... ...




Come on Carnifax. Out you go. Bye bye now.

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"I'll get me coat."

"We'll post it on. Bye bye now." *slam*

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Sparkshot: Go uzis

I prefer the AK's. They shud've swapped the two around and have Uzi's as the unupgraded power. Imagine Dual AK's. (too 3rd tier mercenaries maybe? whatsits name? Commando? Rambo?)

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Rammando? As Scooby Doo would say.

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Carnifax: *snip* you're just a bunch of controllers if you mix the primaries

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Are you suggesting that we shouldn't mix? Or that we should mix, but just secondaries?

[img]/uk/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] The superteam is Fire/Rad (we all agree) but the weakness is mezz protection. Right?

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Well thats up to you guys, but the original idea was pure Fire / Rad. I'd try to keep it to that as much as possible.

All-Troller teams are silly-good though.

And does AM provide Mez, erm, something? Lowers the duration of mez effects on you, whichever that is.

Ice & Fire don't mesh that well and really you're just a bunch of controllers if you mix the primaries.

Rad, TA, Kinetics & Storm are the ones which spring to mind as the best secondaries for Fire controllers.

I'd swap Hotfeet for Flashfire in the order you get them. Stun em at level 12. Sure it won't be super-powerful, especially without slots, but Power Boost -> Flashfire at 16? Nice.

Ah cool. Have fun and hit The Hollows hard! [img]/uk/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]