Carnifax

Don't think I'll have time for a 10 Times run because of the baby but thats Ok, don't mind at all, I can opt out of the second run and make room for someone else. You guys may as well get the badge while you're at it.

I'd love to sign up for the quick runs, don't mind missing the 10 times badge.

Could i join with
Quantum Arrow, level 42 Grav/TA (has TP but no stealth)

and

Carnifax, level 50 Illusion/Storm (with Steamy mist & TP for ghosting if needed)

Agree with Okton (we gotta stop agreeing with each other).

For the AOE mezzes IOs are great, I went with as many Acc/Recharge/Hold (or Acc/Recharge/Stun for Wormhole with a Stun/Range or two as well) as possible. Note that Wormhole doesn't have the same Accuracy penalty as GDF though, its normal accuracy so you don't need as much Acc.

My Grav/TA IO build is here, you might find the Grav slotting handy for Singy and the AOEs. Crushing field I have 3 Damage Procs in for evilness.

Agreed that Power Boost would work really well with Grav/Rad too, it'd make you an unreal control/debuff monster. Power Boosted EMP would be just evil.

I find constant herding tedious as a squishy. Its just so dull sitting there whilest the Tank issues orders. (I use Wormhole to spice things up in those situations. Makes for more excitement)

A good tank knows when to herd, such as running into Room of Death and coming out with a nice big bunch all neatly clustered up behind him, and when they can kick back a bit and just jump in and aggro-manage the group. No need to lead them on a merry trail around a corner, just get in there and [censored] em off Tanky.

Course the clueless Tanks who can't manage aggro make you sob. We had a Stone Tank who was completely clueless before, he played like a terrible damage scrapper and didn't seem to notice when the rest of us were being slaughtered. Happily one of the guys switched to his WS and all was well again. And this wasn't a Hollows toon either, this was the 30-somethings.

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Grats on defeating Indigo.

I looked at your screen shots, and was wondering how you seperated the map screen from the main navigation one, as this is something I'd like to do too! Any pointers would be appreciated? Thanks in advance.

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Erm, just click the little undock button on the bottom-left of the map pop-up surely? Its like a little blue radio button (unlabelled of course). It'll then become a normal window instead of being join to the Nav one.

You do get a single target hold with Elec though, that'll stop em in their tracks.

With Inventions put pairs of Thunderstrike IOs into your attacks (Acc/Dam & Acc/Dam/Recharge pairs probably) for a 2% increase in recovery per pair. This will give you a bit of slack with the Staminaless build. You can have up to 5 of the same set bonuses so 5*Thunderstrike pairs is 10% straight away. They're not too expensive in terms of Salvage either as far as I remember.

For AOE Attacks (just roll over a power in the Enhancements screen to see what a power can take) go with Positrons Blast pairs.

If you take the Medicine Pool at all you can pair slot with Miracle IOs, either a pair like Heal & Heal/Recharge, or if you get lucky the +Recovery Unique IO (remember that that IO would work for 2 mins after you trigger the Heal power though so you'd have to remember to trigger it occasionally). The set bonus of 2.5% would always be on though. So with Aid Other and Aid Self slotted thats another 5% recovery, with another 15% for 2 mins if you snag the Unique IO. I'm planning the Unique IO in my Aid Self if I get it, I like the image of zapping myself every few mins before a fight for a boost, like slapping on a Stimpac or something.

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Sorry Carnifax, but Earth/Kin isn't better for solo? I was thinking about making one for soloing but if it is a team friendly build i can change to grav/kin or grav/ta.

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No, its got the worst damage of any of the sets really and loads of AOE mezzes, so works better on teams. Plus Kin shines on teams mainly too for the AOE heals, Speed Boost and Fulcrum Shift.

Grav/TA rocks. My current FOTM. Probably the best current synergy with Oil Slick given what it currently does to Fire Imps. Good single-target control & damage and quite tactical. You find yourself thinning out mobs with immobs & ducking into cover a lot in the teens, Wormhole is a great solo AOE mez and you get 3 of the best powers in the 30s. Make sure its a Magical or Tech Origin one though.

Yep, I'd agree. Illusion/Kin doesn't have the best synergy, Pantsy won't get in range for Fulcrum Shifts and the Decoys work best with sets that can debuff Defense and Resistance.

Kin with Fire or Earth I'd say, Earth does defense debuffs with its holds and immobs (and Quicksand) giving your Kin moves a better chance of hitting. Very team based combo though.

Illusion/TA is the path less chosen and a good combo too, the PAs would make up for the lack of survivablity of Trick Arrow and they're the only pet I know that doesn't flee in terror from burning Oil Slicks from what I can tell.

I've GWE in my Gravs single-target hold, just as an experiment. It'd work much better in my AOE hold I think along with as many Acc/Recharge/Hold & Recharge/Hold IOs as needed (I've gone for 60%ish accuracy and as high as possible for Hold & Recharge).

Damage Procs shine in AOE immobs since they are so quick to recharge. My Crushing Field now has the Immob Lethal Damage proc, the Slow Smashing Damage one and the Targetted AOE NRG Damage one along with a pair of Accuracy/End IOs making it a fairly lethal power on teams, everything hit has about a 50% chance of being hit by at least one of them. And it sets up containment for a follow-up fireball.

I've just put the Slow one into Oil Slick Arrow too as it'll do a few "ticks" of damage to everyone in it. AOE is really the way to go with them.

Try and get the Procs from the lower levels if possible as they use slightly less expensive Salvage. The Slow one in the level 20s uses fairly cheap salvage.

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True, I use EMP Arrow as an opener on my Grav/TA rather than as a panic button which is why I love it so much, I use EMP as a panic button on my Fire/Rad, which is why I don't.

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*nod* I can certainly see why Grav/ would need EMP as an opener and Fire wouldn't...

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Because?

IIRC both Grav and Rad have almost identical holding powers. The only difference is Hot feet and Smoke Vs Lift and Dimension Shift (and I cant see much in it here), and the Pets - In actual fact Sing provides much more protection than imps in the form of holds, lifts, and the not often used but extremely effective KB Aura.

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Eh? Grav and Rad have similiar holding powers? I assume you mean Grav and Fire?

Which is still wrong anyway. Gravs AOE hold is ranged (like EMP Arrow), Fires is PBAOE (like EMP).

On paper both have AOE stuns but Wormhole and Flashfire work pretty differently in practice.

The main reason Grav does well with EMP Arrow is because other than GDF they don't have a quick, team friendly, AOE mez. Wormhole is best fired from cover and does knockback, Plus its a fairly small AOE. I use it solo and on small teams mainly to set up patches of death. On large teams I switch to EMP Arrow and just EMP Arrow or GDF the bunch the tank is running at followed by the debuff arrows.

Fire has Flashfire to fire off from afar anyway its quick triggers & recharging with a better AOE then run in for Hotfeet goodness. Cinders and Rads EMP thus really become PBAOE panic buttons which work well with the PB auras

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Ah, i c... although psi tornado dmg IS that bad compared to fire ball

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Really? NoFuture lists fireball as 56 total for Fireball with a Recharge+activation of 33 seconds.

Psi Tornado is listed as 53.5 total every 22.35 seconds. Both do containment.

And Psi is 20 foot radius compared to Fireballs 16.

Fireball does come 6 levels earlier though

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Having played a lvl 50 MM Trick Archer and a lvl 50 Rad defender...

I use both EMP as "Oh..S..." buttons. Id rather be sure it was there when needed instead of every x minutes having an easy fight and then when the s hits the f it isnt available.

In such a case, I find EMP superior simply because it has a faster activation. And thats what you want when the plan goes a bit pear shaped. Both are good, but that EMP arrow takes an awfully long time to fire when everybody is in the red...

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True, I use EMP Arrow as an opener on my Grav/TA rather than as a panic button which is why I love it so much, I use EMP as a panic button on my Fire/Rad, which is why I don't.

Agreed with Estarriol on the top-heavyness aspect too, compared to Fire/Rad and Ill/Storm I found Grav/TA much harder going until the 30s when the really good powers came about. TA is fairly dreadful until level 20ish, even with the improved control durations of Ice & Net arrow a controller has. Glue is the only really worthwhile power up until Acid arrow.

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I'd still say EMP was better than EMP arrow personally. The recharge makes a hell of a lot of difference to me, and with the Rad set you're unlikely to be sat at range to start with. I'd happily place EMP Arrow in at second, but it doesn't knock EMP from the top spot for me

Oh and going defender route would make TA/Rad so that one of my rad AoEs could light the slick without me having to target it. I'm lazy

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The recharge is the same on both isn't it, 300 seconds apiece? In fact they're exactly the same except EMP is PB with a 60 foot AOE and EMP Arrow is ranged with a 35 feet one.

Agreed on Playstyles though, I'm again coming from Rad as the secondary & Hotfeet running with the other toggles means EMP isn't as nice for me as EMP Arrow is for my Grav/TA who's pure range and toggle-less.

I'd take Cinders, its not Flashfire but its handy to have. Plus with i9 you can get away with 4 Acc/Recharge/Hold IOs in there from about level 30 onwards. Deffo take Flashfire though, one of the best controller mezzes about and you get it nice and early. If you can have it 6 slotted at 20 excellent.

Fire Imps is normally 2 acc & 3 damage, plus maybe a recharge as they're fragile little buggers and need resummoning if one dies.

Hotfeet is great as your beginning damage power, I got it at 8 and used the Hotfeet & Fire Cages combo to blitz Hazard zones (I was Rad though which gave me extra protection), you'll be more like a Regen, using Transfusion to keep healing yourself whilst just outside melee range.

End will obviously be an issue though, you'll need Stamina and probably a travel power. I'd go with Fly for Air Superiority personally but Kin & Haste is always insane fun too.

I dropped Bonfire after a bit, its Ok but not great. Useful occasionally in a small space, combined with Fire Cages for a Burn Patch or for dumping in a corridor whilest you leg it. I'd better things to be getting & spending on.

In terms of i9 builds I dunno about Fire/Kin but my Fire/Rad is going for +recovery whenever possible, but once you hit 35 a Kin should be fine without them though.

Acc/Stun/Recharges in Flashfire (2 Stuns have +recovery when you dual slot so work around that maybe, I have 2 30s Razzle Dazzle and 2 Stupefys for the recovery and the Acc/Stun/Recharge from Rope a Dope) and Acc/Hold/Recharges in Cinders. Usually I go with 30-something set IOs.

I've found AOE immobs are really good places for damage Procs though since they're quick recharging AOE moves. I've 3 in Crushing Field, think you could get two in Fire Cages. They cost a fortune to get in but are level independent which is nice. Bolster with Acc/End & Acc/Recharge IOs for low cost spamtastic death.

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TA is all about debuffs, either -dam res, -recharge, - speed or -def. it's a bit like Dark in that it doesn't directly affect the team, but makes them much more able to despatch the mobs. Kin is all empowering the team, TA is about depowering the bad guys. If you want to protect your team then i'd say TA isn't really for you, there's basically nothing that can have a direct effect on your teammates. I picked aid other cos I wanted aid self. Apart from that I have nothing that does anything to the team itself.

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To be clear, by "protect", I don't mean "buff" or "heal". A Dark Defender protects their team by debuffing enemies, and would be viable without Twilight Grasp because of the large (and more-or-less always up) -Damage and -ToHit.

Carnifax - which powers are you comparing to when you state that TA powers recharge quicker than other powers? As far as I can see, Glue recharges quicker than Tar Patch, but lasts less long (they both have a 2:1 recharge/duration ratio). It also recharges slower than similar powers from other sets (Quicksand, Caltrops). Acid has no very similar power - Sonic Siphon would be the closest and recharges slightly faster, although as a single-target vs small AoE I would expect that. Disruption Arrow again has no direct equivalent that I can think of off the top of my head, but there are similar large AoE -Res powers available near-permanently without additional slots (Disruption Field, EF).

I'm playing Devil's Advocate because this is the first time in a long time that a set has mystified me somewhat... I'd rather find a groove I can enjoy for my TA/A than delete her.

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Difference between Glue and Quicksand & Tar Patch is the Glue actually sticks for longer, 30 seconds, even if the mob gets out of the patch. Glue Arrow is actually more like a cross between Snow Storm (the patch life is linked to the targets life, its effectively a toggleless, static anchor power) and Lingering Radiation. Also Quicksand & Tar Patch don't debuff Recharge at all, Defense and Resistance are what they debuff (all 3 debuff run speed obviously). I've no experience at all with Caltrops though, didn't know it had such a low recharge.

Acid & Disruption are actually like parts of Freezing Rain, its like Freezing Rain was split into 3 bits, Acid, Distruption & Oil slick (with the ignitable oil slick target added). So really I'm comparing to that. It can be compared to Tar Patch too but Tar Patch is an amazing power really

The recharge : duration ratio isn't quite the same as something quickly recharging when you think about it, if you're storming through groups the quick recharge of the TA powers is more useful than the longer duration of something like Tar Patch, it just means an empty Tar Patch is left behind for 15 seconds. For AVs it probably balances out but at least with TA you can get the stacking up quicker.

With TA though the last three powers are the best, with the last two being really strong. EMP Arrow is the best AOE hold in the game (with the exception of Ghost Widows hax hold in the States TF ), and its ranged which is wonderful. It also works better in TA than EMP works in the toggle-heavy Rad.

Oil Slick is really powerful when it works properly. I'd say wait until 26/27 and see if it makes you love TA, it made the set for me. I do think TA could do with a little buffage, say Poison Gas changed to a low duration Fear effect rather than sleep and Disruption Arrow doing a bit of -Regen. That'd balance it with the big hitter defender sets.

But I've only got experience of it as a Controller, not a defender. If I was going the Defender route I'd probably make a TA/Dark or TA/Rad to be honest.

The other point is that two of TAs strengths compared to other powers are the low recharge of a lot of the powers, especially Glue, Disruption & Acid arrows. So it shines in that every group you come across can be hit with those 3. Against AVs with Haste you can stack Disruption which is handy too.

Also it has low End costs. Which would be great except you generally have to pick up Stamina anyway so it makes little ingame difference other than helping in the teens and early 20s, you can survive longer with a Staminaless TA than other sets (based on my experience of TA, Dark, Rad and Storm. Kin is also pretty horrible stamina-wise, until 26 when all your End needs are basically solved).

Agree with Praf on the Megadeath approach. Why debuff when you can fry em instead

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I'd have to recommend taking a TA/A on the STF as all the debuffs help alot. It doesn't matter if Oil Slick doesn't light as the auto hit defence debuff is great for Mako. Glue, hold and immobilse for GW and poison gas for Black Scorpion and Scirocco. Altho i just use all on them all .

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Wow! Oil Slick does a Defense Debuff too? I never knew that, and I've been using the thing for months. That's well cool.

Congrats Omega, well deserved. Bloodey Scrapper lived up to his name

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Gratz Mate! By any chnace is it a healer? Could use here next week when Max is gone and we run the STF, that way i can make Blue rich again and not play my empath to get her to 45!


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Heal plx!

*thwock*

Would be very good at keeping GW stuck in one point with all those immobs though.

Thunderclap is lower mag, it'll only stun minions alright. But it does give AOE containment, something an Illusion/Storm generally lacks. Of course until the 40s you've nothing really to take advantage of it...

Flash is better since i9 because you can throw 3 or 4 Acc/Recharge/Hold IOs & 2 recharges (or however many you need to get it to 95%) in and get better recharge from it. Its still long charging though. I have it and use it, but sparingly, generally when my PAs are down & I want to do a Freezing Rain & Ice Storm combo.

You get Tornado at 35 which has a (chaotic) stun in it too, same mag as Thunderclap. This means you could take that instead of Thunderclap. Or combine it to stun lieutenents. Course Tornado is quite situational, it can make an awful mess.

Thunderclap will also do well out of IOs, you could probably perma it with 3 or 4 Acc/Recharge/Stuns fairly handily, so you don't need 6 slots.

Really spectral terror is the AOE control of choice for you. After that I dunno. The idea of only stunning minions puts me off Thunderclap really, when I trigger a PBAOE with a squishy I don't want the Lieuts splatting me.

Grats Cynic. And fair play for putting up with 15 levels of the Fire Imp & Oil Slick bugs.

@Carnifax agrees.

Flocking to the posts and spamming them to oblivion with nonsense doesn't help much either.

Coming from an illusion/storm & fire/rad PoV so some comments mightn't be relevanty...

Personally I slot EMP as a Hold, not a End Drainer due to the unrealbility of End Draining. I've got 3 different Acc/Hold/Recharge in EMP to max it out, topped up with some Recharges. HOs would work as well I suppose. Depends on how you use EMP, it can often be suicide for dropping your toggles on a Rad.

I'd never throw out Fitness, you really need it IMO. Group Invis's defense is tiny, I'd only bother for IO slotting if you really want it.

I've got Pet IOs for the +recovery they can provide. Only takes 2 per set bonus. Blood manadate and Commanding Presence are good ones to slot. Maybe just Blood Mandate in the PA if anything at all. But you may as well get some extra Recovery from the Pantsasm.

Do you need Acrobatics, I never get too much knockback and you don't have choking cloud so you shoudn't need to be in close. As PRAF says Hover with IOs might be a good alternative with Luck of the Gambler in it

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The staying alive part is my #1 goal really.
Shields are also pritty passive in their use; which allows me to focus on using powers to attack and control.

I wont be healing people or buffing that often which is how i like it; heh.

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I prefer teaming with people who say "Keeping the team alive is my #1 goal" personally.

With your motto you may aswell stay at the back of the group in a PFF, do some fun emotes and hope nobody notices your conspicious lack of efficacy.

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"Seeing if i can take on that entire bunch and survive" is my motto for any of my controllers, generally by dumping as many AOE controls & debuffs on them as possible.

I tend to die a bit but there's generally a medic around to rez my sorry [censored].

I think controllers secondaries are equally important as the primaries. But I tend to stick with the debuffing ones, they're more fun