Capca

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The fact is that the Kheldian's "classes" (and other EATs) are just the CoH world's response to every other comic book universe's characters who don't fit into the main five archetypes that can be seen constantly.


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Here in is the exact problem. Heroes in comics rarely fit into the basic archetypes, but for game balance we have them and must fit our characters into them.

If you played the orginal D&D game before it became advanced, you might remember what the classes were like. If you were human you could choose between fighter, mage, cleric, & thief. If you were and elf you were automatically what would become a fighter/mage. If you were a dwarf or halfling you were a fighter (but each races own varient of fighter). This is basically what COH is evolving into, if your human (or from Earth) you are one of 5 archtypes, othewise you are a race/class combo.

Perhaps I could illistrate it better if I tell you how I think the archtype way of introducing Kheldians would work instead of the class version we're getting.

Obviously if the EATs work differently than current archtypes they must have their own "function". Crytpic could introduce a real EAT that is designed around that function. Give it about 4 or 5 primary and secondary powersets, fire, ice, darkness, & energy for example. Lets call it the Offender EAT. For the sake of arguement, lets assume the entire EAT is unlocked at 50. At that point you can make an Offender EAT matching any of the EATs primaries to a secondary (say a Fire/Ice Offender), and pick any orgin like we normally do.

Now introduce Kheldians into the game, and have them use powers from this new EAT, say energy/energy. Within a day you will see players choosing to make Kheldians from this new AT, mimicing powers as close to them as they can. If they want to give players access to Kheldian stories they still could. Perhaps a special origin called Kheldian that is only avialable after you unlock the Offender EAT, that then forces you to select energy/energy if you choose it.

The game was set up so that we have 'general' ATs that we can then use to make specific heroes. If you want to make a hero that is part of a specific race or group you can. Just select the archtype and powersets that best represents the group. Do we really need entire power sets devoted to specific races? That would be like saying only Green Lanterns can have moldable force fields, or only kryptonians can have flight and superstrength together, an idea that is a complete 180 to how COH was introduced,

The only quote I've seen on the number of powers

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Both Archetypes have brand NEW power sets.

In fact, there's 16 Primary Powers and 16 Secondary Powers.

Yep. Not 9. 16.

And there's Shapeshifting. Of a sort....


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I don’t think he has said if they get more than one primary and secondary for the peacebringers or warshades or if they can mix and match between them but he 16 definitely refers to the number of powers within each set.

And since Statesman compared them to krytonians, it would be like having one in a DC RPG. You would all have the same powers as Supes. Some may neglect developing certain powers like their eye beams and through pools, some may be the boxers, doctors, or leaders of their people, but they all have flight, speed, tough skin, heat vision, and strength as there racial powers. The high-elf/mages of COH.

My point wasn’t that there aren’t any heroes who share common origins (Fantastic Four are some that haven’t been mentioned yet). My point was that DC doesn’t have a Kryptonian standing on every street corner in Metropolis waiting for a crime to stop. If every DCV super team had a Green Lantern on it, people would think they’re being unimaginative.

I don’t dispute that each player can give his/her Kheldian different personas and backgrounds. Some might have been scientists, soldiers, or teachers back home. The same would hold true if you chose an elf/mage in another game. Each one would have different goals and motivations. You are still an elf and a mage though. With the same racial powers as every other elf and access to the same spells as every other mage.

Imagine if Cryptic had used that idea from the very beginning. All tanker might be given 16 super strength-like powers and 16 powers appropriate for invulnerability. Even a step further, they would all be rescued Crey prisoners who had been subject to experiment 593. Sure each person is free to decide who he or she was before the experiment, and how he or she feels about it after. Now expand that design to all archetypes; to me that is the difference between the archetype system we currently have and the “class” system EATs are part of. Its kind of funny when you think about to, many fantasy MMORPGs are trying to break away from the class system with skills trees, traits, alternate advancement, and other bits if individuality. COH is adding class/race combos to an otherwise (almost) freeform builder.

Personally, I’d rather play Spiderman than shield agent 626. I’m not trying to argue against EATs, obviously Cryptic has put a lot of work into them, and so they’re coming whether we like it or not. I just feel they canned heroes and really haven’t an interest. I could be wrong, and they might be widely unpopular, so like an ice tanker, seeing another one is a rare novelty.

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Green Lantern Corp

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And how many active Green Lanterns hang out on Earth?

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There are going to be 16 primary & 16 secondary power sets. It looks like Warspites are going to be scranker types & peacebringers are going to be blastdeftrollers. However, you pick the primary & secondary sets, so you don't have to follow the strict definition of the main ATs. If you pick a damage set as a primary, you have to pick a defense/buff/control set for your secondary. & vice versa. This means that you can build what ever you want. For example, you can take whatever passes for Fire Control as a primary & the pseudo fire blast as a secondary. Or you can make an Invul/Energy Blast guy. & so on. Now, I may not be describing the power sets exactly, but this is the gist of what the new Epics are all about. You get to make a character that can be as unique or mainstream as you want, but with new powers & power sets.


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Woa, Statesman said there are 16 primary and 16 secondary powers, not powersets. From the sounds of it, each EAT as one primary and and one secondary to choose from, but I'll admit, that's only speculation on my part.

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Pretty disappointed. Kheldian's not an origin, it's a race. Warshade and Peacebringer aren't archetypes in comics, they're classes in a nerd game. And not only that they seem to be extremely specific classes. Like tanks, they aren't designed to specifically fit in and be part of the genre but to serve a logistic purpose, make teaming more common.


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I think this paragraph pretty much hits it on the head. I've run superhero RPG for some time now. Usually I get really good backgrounds, were people think of interesting ways their characters became heroes. But every once in a while you get the guy who's only explaination for his character is he's Kryptonian, former S.H.I.E.L.D, or just a mutant (with no other backstory). That to me is what Kheldains are in COH. How did you get your powers? Your a Kheldian. Why are you here? Same reason the other Kheldians are. What are your general goals? Same as the other Peacebringers.

Think about it, in comics heroes are typically somewhat unique. There aren't a bunch of others with the same orgin & powers running around. Even if the hero's entire race has the same powers as him, he's usually the only one hanging around (or one of a very small number). This is done for a very good reason. Superman, Hawkgirl and Martian Manhunter are all good examples. Each of them would somehow be lessened if a whole bunch of Kryptonians, Thanagarians, or Martians showed up and all became heroes. That's pretty much why I have no intention of playing one.

The sad thing is, until now, we never needed epics to be part of COH lore. If you take some time to look through hero bios it won't take long to find someone who is a "rogue clockwork", "escaped COT victim", "runaway Crey experiment", or some other COH inspired origin. If Kheldians were introduced with out a specific AT, within a day you would find people with "I'm a Kheldian" type of origins anyway.

If Cryptic wants to start telling us when we are allowed to make backgrounds that are part of extisting factions and lore within COH I suppose I'll adapt, but I'm not deleting my Freedom Corps character even if that becomes an EAT.

Thanks Statesman, this is all I really want. I know you can't just wave your hand and something is magically fixed, but knowing where you are on important issues and a rough estimate of when we can expect a fix is a big help.

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if you want PVP try lineage 2.


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That is the cruelest meanest thing I've heard this week, probably this month. L2 is like torture with a monthly fee.

Here you go:

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[Inhibitor] So, now let me ask you this. With you saying that, is this going to be, are these going to be archetypes that anyone can choose in the character creation?

[Statesman] They will be archetypes that anyone can choose if they accomplish a certain goal. The first set of archetypes are going to be achievable if you can get a character up to level 50. Others might have other particular requirements. Whether it be badges or task forces or something along those lines.


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This is found here:
Statesman's MMO Interview

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I sense hordes and hordes of pedestrians in various "villian costumes" coming on the 31st. How'd you like to walk through IP and find all of the random walking construction workers have been replaced by 5th Column Nacht Rockets, or all the female NPC spawns are dressed like Carnival of Shadows?

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That would be neat, but probaly won’t fit in with the ‘city at war’ concept behind COH. It’s probably illegal in Paragon to dress up like one of the villian groups (and probably why we as heroes can arrest them on sight). Considering the invasion, the last thing the city leaders want is a bunch of children running around in Rikti costumes, knocking on doors in small gangs.

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Let's not put words in my mouth here...a SINGLE electric blaster DOES drain endurance from an AV. BUT definitely not enough to make an impact. All secondary effects against AV's are resisted...it takes several electric blasters to make an appreciable dent in an AV (just like it takes many heroes to bring one down).

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Statesman, this is exactly why, in another thread, I’m asking you and your team to put in words what endurance drain is supposed to be doing and how effective individual endurance drainer should be.

In one line of questioning we get the impression that it’s OK for endurance drain to be ineffective or less effective against minions and lieutenants because it is hghly useful against bosses an AVs (not a direct quote, but several times I’ve gotten this impression). In another line of questioning, you’re stating that, like all other secondary effects, AVs are highly resistant to endurance drain. Which seems to indicate that it’s not highly effective against AVs.

Can we just get, in one place, your thoughts on exactly what the strengths and weakness of endurance drain are? How many draining heroes should be necessary against certain types of enemies (bosses and AVs)? Is it intentional that a small handful of powers carries the bulk of the endurance draining effects? Why?

I don’t mind that stimulant isn’t as good as clear mind, but anyone who’s played with any of the medicine powers can see how stimulant is next to worthless in it’s current (60 second) form. Extend its duration, remove its interruptability, or give it some range (at least 50). Any one of those would make it useful but still keep it weaker than clear mind and increase density. 90% of the time, anyone who is immobilized is also in range of an area DOT or getting hit with explosive blasts, making the entire medicine line unusable. This is an acceptable limitation for Aid Other, Aid Self, and Resuscitate, since they are still good downtime reducers or runaway and heal powers, but since stimulant is mainly only useful during combat, it becomes almost worthless.

It would be nice to know if they plan to have them in issue three, but I REALLY want to know if we can switch out current characters.

I cannot play my favorite character because my instincts tell me that I'm going to have to start over later. I’ve even logged on, looked at the character, and logged right back off because it was the only character I felt like playing, but can’t bear the thought that any work I do now will just be deleted later.

I just want a yes or no answer so I can move on.

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On the post about the purple patch - yes, if groups could street sweep higher level critters at a wider range, then sure, the issue would be resolved. Missions, however, would continue to be simple - and therefore worthless for XP.

On the "group penalty" myth - there is a NO penalty for groups. There is an XP bonus for every member you add to a group. BUT, the problem is that the more members you have in your group, the fewer areas there are that have a challenge big enough for you. So you can street sweep more effectively with 4 or less - because you can go into areas now that were designed for groups of 6 to 8, but aren't hard enough now. That larger group is left in limbo.

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I think this boils down to semantics. When players say there is a penalty for larger groups, this is exactly what they are talking about. Outside of TFs at certain levels, there is nothing to ‘hunt’ that will provide sufficient XP for a large group, and missions are an outright waste of time for a group of equal level heroes.

The point stands that before the purple patch a group of 8 could earn better XP than a group of 4. After the patch this wasn’t true, except perhaps in a few situations each with other drawbacks.

We can argue all day about whether we should be able to hunt +8s or if +3s should challenge a large party. To be honest it doesn’t matter to me so long as I’m challenged no matter the group size and that my character growth isn’t too fast or too slow. The purple patch was a knee-jerk reaction to a problem that wasn’t as simple as it appeared to be. I think more than anything we wanted to hear that you acknowledge the problem and plan to fix it. There’s nothing left now but to complain about your final solution (and no matter what it is, we’ll complain).