Bureaucrat

I dislike pvp, and while the fixes suggested may not bring me in to pvp I think that they are great suggestions that will help pvp overall.
hope some of these ideas get implemented. I like the flagging idea so I can actually enjoy some of the zones without having to worry about getting ganked. I like the idea of having to flag yourself for pvp if you want to do a mission, so in order to get a nuke or a shivan you have to be flagged, more over a warning system to other players would make things a lot harder to get and quite frankly it may need it.

the ability to move and rotate a room with everything still in it would be awesome.
As far as new tilesets for decoration I would love to see a grid pattern for walls, floors, and even ceilings so that you can line stuff up even easier and get a better concept of height to make things easier to float.

very nice Komradvex, I like the stone table look.
I was thinking about making one of these for a second level study to my control room.
torches are 8 feet tall so am I right in assuming that folks here floated the plinth and then dropped the floor two levels and worked that way. Or is there another way I am not seeing?

This weekend I was going to work on my base and try and add a fireplace to it.

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Moonbase = generic tech maps with new flavor text. :P

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Also, zone-wide buff grants inertial reduction, falls occur at 1/6th the speed, fighting in areas of vacuum has a high -end debuff, and knockback is increased by a factor of ten.

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that would make for a very interestng pvp zone if for nothing else than to give flyers a chance and change up tactics. suddenly -fly isnt nearly as devestating when you don't take that much damage from falling. I normally hate pvp but I would give a moon zone pvp a chance.
I could even see the whole moon zone as a contested zone where heroes and villains have set up bases on the moon so that there are seperate pve areas and a contested zone that would be pvp.

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AMYGDALA!!!

OK the room is not done yet but the fireplace is done so I wanted to share this with ya. I'll post the rest of the pics when I finish with the base.

Chimney
Fire

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wow. So what did you have to do to get it to look that way? What random levels and stacking did you have to do to achieve that look? Its really amazing.

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I can wait...I'm patient...

Or better yet, perhaps I'll tell my own secrets...such as the secret leader of Malta is Walt Disney!

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Disney using "stolen" nemesis technology to create a suit that allows him to live forever, powered not by steam but by the tears of children.

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Overall the ski run mini game still needs work. Please fix for next year.

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It may well be something that not everyone is going to get by just going there and doing it. Gold is designed to be a challenge. If you aren't interested in working at it, then you won't get it. Not all badges are for everyone, sorry.

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Lighthouse, someone in the badge section posted the following, in case you missed it:

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this type of activity is inappropriate for a celebratory event which is supposed to be a nice gift to all the players. I have no problem with this type of activity being in the game, but I think that it detracts from the "holiday spirit" and turns it from a light, fun time into just another achievement driven type-A "me me me" event.

I'd much rather have seen a more cooperative and less competetive event added, more in the spirit of Christmas...and no, requiring a Kin doens't count as cooperative.

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My reply to that post:

Actually I think this completely sums up my thoughts as well.

This is why I have a problem with the "these badges are not meant for everyone" standard line. It was supposed to be a gift for everyone that got turned into "this is a gift, but only if you work hard enough for it". At the point you have to work for a "gift" it ceases to be a gift.

Had there been a new year-round winter zone (preferably accessed by both sides) with a ski run, these badges would fit in that type of zone.

As it is, the ski badges miss the spirit of the season.

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actually the ski badges are just fine. Its peoples attitudes towards the badges that are against the season.

Badges are not meant for anyone anyway why should these be any different. As it stands I think you are making too much out of how "difficult" it is to get these badges. All I needed to get gold was a little practice and a zero g pack.
the badges are not a "gift", they are a badge that can be earned by playing a certain mini game and in reality its not that difficult.

snow globe. I think you are reading far too much into this whole thing. I am sorry you had such a hard time getting gold or felt that you needed a special build for it. gold can be gotten by anyone with a zero g pack which is anyone over level 10. So if you start a new character, run to pocket D, get in on a team, do the snaptooth missions, once you run that five times for all the badges you can take the pocket d exit to kings row, pick up your radio and run those missions and BAM zero g pack and a gold medal once you get used to the course. Its really not that hard nor exclusive. you dont need a kin or any outside buffs, just a zero g pack and sprint.

I think the ski slope thing is fun and does nothing to invalidate the spirit of the season.

If I hunt in my level zone I may leave the spawn. if I present hunt in a lower level zone I clean up my spawns. my main is at a level where he is at the low end of PI, so its not uncommon for me to spawn purples that I can't take care of. However in Talos or kings row it takes me a second to clean up so I do. I remember my first winter event, running from one left spawn, jumping a fence to find an even higher level left spawn, so I try not to do that.

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I'm so frustrated right now, I'm seriously getting to the point where I'll cancel my account. I HATE games that frustrate me and present an impossible goal! I usually end up putting those games down and never playing them again.

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It sounds like it's making you very unhappy. So why are you still trying to do it? This is a game; it's supposed to be fun. Go do the fun parts.

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It is making me incredibly unhappy, but I've set a goal for myself to get as many badges as possible in this game. Earning new badges does make me happy, and I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment.

I know there are some badges I'll never get, but that was just because I wasn't playing during those CoH anniversaries, I can't go back in time to get those badges. I also can't get the V.I.P. badge because I never bought the DVD edition.

But, this badge is here and it should be feasible for me to get! This is just ruining a part of the game that has, in the past, been great fun for me.

Lighthouse saying I don't deserve the badge because I'm "interested in working at it" is what REALLY makes me unhappy! I have been working to get this badge and I can't. I've spent a lot of my time and effort trying to get this badge and it's just not happening, and the official attitude is that I shouldn't get it? That's unacceptable.

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people have been able to get this badge with spring, swift, and the zero g pack. it took some practice but people can do it. Getting so mad about it you may cancel your account solves nothing. Badges are supposed to be a challenge and from what people have said no one travel power is that neccesary.

if you need a boost just ask a kin. there are usually a couple hanging out in pocket d. If you are on justice server at all send me a tell at @bureaucrat and I can log my kin on to give you a hand as long as you need it and if I'm not stuck running some horrible timed mission.

Ive gotten silver and bronze on my main with fly on the first couple of attempts with no problems. my kin however sucks at the skiing, so he doesn't even try, just sits at the top giving SB and IR.

keep trying and if it stops being fun then don't do it.

personally I love this prestige grant. The idea that its only helping large sg's is false. We have a few small sg's that have about 15 people in them with about 5 alts a piece more or less, we maxed out our small plot a while ago and have been trying to save up for a while now to get that next plot. WHen they increased the cap and announced the prestige grant a couple of us went to work padding so we could max it out. We will have more than enough to not just upgrade the plot but finish getting that last teleporter and an extra craft room. 20k a month isn't that bad if you have a moderatly active sg.
if someone plays it right and actually goes through the effort smaller SG's will make out better with this grant than larger ones. A small sg that pads to the 150 max can get quite a good head start with 3 mil. Its not a teleporter to every zone but its a teleporter to the major ones plus a med bay, craft room, and the power and control to run it. not bad to start out with.

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An interesting spinning target you offer there - first you claim there haven't been any. And now you essentially state "well yeah, there have seen some, I just didn't like them".

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That's facile: Yes, there have been temper tantrums. No, there have not been addressals of buyer incentive as an invalid marketting tool.
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The belief that your are entitled to such incentives does however tie into a worldview.

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Assignation: I hold no such belief. Smart marketing practise != entitlement. Entitlement is your story, not mine. Trying to assign posting motivations for a stranger many miles distant is a futile and revealing gesture; really only good for convincing yourself and illustrating for others the wild presumptions you're willing to throw out in order to score a non-existent point.

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Nice spin and dodge. Does Parry follow or proceed?

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"Maybe if I link something pithy here he won't notice I skirted any rebuttal."

Point remains, as before, unaddressed.

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I don't think that anyone here has said that buyer incentives are an invalid marketing tool. What people have been saying is that there have already been buyer incentives in this game and there continue to be buyer incentives in this game and with their marketing. There is always a early adopter incentive in MMO's so that you can get the leg up on the other guy. Vet awards are incentives to stay, little gifts like free month of play, extra costume pieces, 4 more character slots, etc. are all buyer incentives to keep purchasing different versions of the game. What people here seem to be questioning is the validity of the argument that just because someone else gets something for free that they are entitled to something extra because they already paid for it. They ignore that they already got something extra by buying it and feel entitled to get more out of the deal simply because someone is getting something less for free.

Buyer incentives are a key way to get people to not just buy but to keep buying and CO* has always included these incentives. Now they are shifting tactics to basically do away with considering them two seperate games and calling it just one big one, and its a move that they have been making for a year now with the GVE packs. This move to give someone access to the other side is just to even things up and make adressing the game as a whole much easier.

The thing that people are taking offense to is the attitude that they are owed something because of this marketing change. There is a big difference between wanting something when you buy and demanding something extra after you bought the game that came with the free gift now that they changed the packaging. The thing that is really telling to me is that there has not been this kind of resentment when the GvE edition came out where you could buy both games for far less than you could buy one.

You haven't been throwing the tantrums emnity, nor has Pax, a personal insult here and there but no tantrums. The point I am trying to get across is that no one is saying buyer incentives are bad, what people are saying is the buyers sense of entitlement when they have already been given a bonus for buying the games and have an advantage for having bought both earlier. If NCsoft decides to give a little trinket, and it looks like they will thats one thing and it very well may be a smart move, but the players are in no way owed any little trinket beyond what they got when they first bought the game.

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Its true, $40 dollars so much even if you did it for several accounts. Its not about the money. Its more about if they want to give back and thank the customers, thank me in a way that does something for me. Give back to the customer base that gave most. This thank you does absolutely nothing for me. So be it though, I will accept it and move on. I would have left it at what i said awhile ago, I just got upset of the constant insults of me being cheap or whining is all.

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The thing is though that in a way you have already gotten much more out of this deal than any one else did. By buying both sets you got an extra free month, and a longer time to play and be established in that game that the others wont get. The people who are getting access to the other side for free are just getting that, no extra costume pieces, no free month, no special dvd edition only badges, just access. In the last year the main edition of the game that has sold has been the GvE pack which is significantly cheaper than either COH or COV at launch and it includes a free month and extra goodies. This move just standardizes that practice so that they have more of an even playing field when determining what to work on and how to allocate resources.

They already reward customer loyalty with vet awards and they give people incentives to buy box sets by including free month passes and extra bits. In many ways you have already been compensated for buying early and contributing to their success. They are giving a customer appreciation gift to everyone as thanks for making the game what it is today. Those that have signed on early and bought the boxed sets have already been given many appreciation gifts for that purchase and those gifts are not being given away, all thats being given is access to the other side.

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Let me turn this whole question around on you:

Why NOT offer an incentive to those who actually own a copy of both halves of the game?

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I actually do take offense to calling me not bright and point of fact I have worked in customer service for a while now.

Here is the thing. We have customer service, adressing problems, righting wrongs, making customers feel good about the product, and harboring loyalty to that product.
Then we have customer incentives, reasons to buy, reasons to keep a subscription

With NC softs new marketing they want to just sell COH and COV as one package and will give everyone access to it. This is a big incentive to new people and people with just one account. The incentive for people that already had both is that new players will come in. For heroes that means more people to team with. For Villains it means that now they have more of a say and more of a pull when it comes to getting new content because everyone has access to it now, plus more people. For me and for many people the biggest incentive to staying loyal is having fun. WHen I stop having fun NC soft stops getting my 15 a month. More people makes for a more interesting game. This game already has a vetran award program that gives an incentive for loyalty. While I see your and emnitys point about this being a good oportunity to gain more loyalty by offering an incentive to those that bought both sets a long time ago I believe that they gave the biggest incentive to stay which is announcing thier plan. I stay because its fun and because I know that things change and new issues are 4-5 months away. I don't think that giving a badge will really impact one way or the other how people will feel about this. I think that by outlining what changes are in the works and what direction they plan on taking things they gave an incentive to stay.

I dont have any problem with people questioning this on the basis of being a missed oportunity to gain more loyalty. I have a problem with the people who come here screaming about how NC soft just ripped them off and slapped them across the face because they are just giving full access for free now and now they want a refund.

Simply put. I think the vetrans who have been here and have had both games have already made up their minds on whether or not the game is worth being loyal to. That is not to say that they should be ignored because they shouldn't, they are an important part of the player base and the vetran awards reflect that. The biggest incentive that they can give is newer and better content on a regular basis and this announcment means that we will have more players on both sides and perhaps more equal treatment between red and blue side.

I guess the bottom line for me is that if NC soft wants to do something, and it looks like they will, thats fine and thats their decision. However no one who bought both games are entitled to get something because of this change.

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Why should there be a customer incentive when they change marketing models?

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Are you being serious?

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yes I am, I may not be explaining myself clearly but I am serious. By customer incentive I assume you mean some kind of trinket or gift to those who bought both games before and would now only have to buy one. In that way I dont think that there needs to be customer incentive.

Customer incentive in this move is fully on new buyers and those who only had one of the games which is where it should be in order to gain new revenue. Vet awards in in place as gifts to thank those who have stuck with the company, This move to consolidate the games makes it easier to get into for new players and in many ways they already did that. I believe they stopped production of the individual packs a while ago and just sell the GvE edition of the game which gives both games for less than the price of one. By combining the two and opening everyone up to both games they can allocate greater rescources to both games evenly and provide more content. That is the customer incentive.

In the short term the customer incentive is more players and an overall better experience because of that. Vetrans already have a incentive in the reward system and there really needs to be nothing else.
In the long term the customer incentive to start playing or keep playing is because its fun, and now with everyone having access to both games it opens things up for greater development. The customer incentive is basically a better overall product as a result of this merger. No one loses anything and people in general gain. The only way someone can see a negative in opening up all content to everyone is from a feeling of entitlement and a resentment that someone got something for free that they paid for however long ago.

This move is one large customer incentive really, it opens up the possibility for a greater product available to all players.

I have yet to see a reason to hate this particular move to give all players access that was not based in a sense of entitlement.

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If people can look past themselves for one minute they can see this as being a net bonus towards

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I think if people could look past trying to link it to ego for a minute and view it as customer incentive, a lot of this would be moot.

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So lets look at customer incentive. More people have access to both sides meaning a greater possibility of more players. People who were reluctant to try the other side will now be able to try it. Players that have been around for a long time and had both will now be able to have more people to play with. The ultimate customer incentive is to keep the game fun and thats what this is doing.
I speculate that keeping the games seperate was more cryptics doing than NC soft. There may have been a deal where cryptic got the bulk of the game sales and NC soft got the bulk of the monthly fees. Now that NC soft has both they can join everything and simplify marketing a lot. Now that every player is guaranteed to have access to both they can justify spending more money on villain side and hero side to make the game better.

The reason to stay is now as it has always been. Its fun. Now with more people it may be even more fun.

Why should there be a customer incentive when they change marketing models? Just because they have decided to shift how they do business does not mean that they owe you anything at all. This is the way that they have been selling CO* for a year now, all they want to do is standardize it to make it easier to market, sell, and create for.

Think of it this way. People who buy the GvE pack are getting both games for around 30 bucks or less depending on sales. 30 bucks is less that either COV or COH sold for at launch meaning that people have already gotten both games for less than the price of one for a while now, and yet no gnashing of teeth about people feeling ripped off.

Getting new things, especially software, is always going to be more expensive than waiting for the special bundle a few years later.

So what do the early adoptors get for having both accounts for longer? Well they get the comfort of having an established set of players that they play with, a base if they want, more influence, more experience, and the fun of having both games for longer. Thats what the money went to.

If people can look past themselves for one minute they can see this as being a net bonus towards the game itself as opposed to a percieved "slap in the face" which its not. Its a change in marketing coming from a change in ownership, which means that the player is entitled to nothing more than they already have. I hope that they dont cave and give any kind of refund or reimbursment because it would set a dangerous precedent for future marketing changes.

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I want to be wrong.

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Don't worry about that.

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Memphis:

Faultline is not a 40+ zone.

Where are the new villain groups.

RWZ is not a new zone.

We were told that this game would never see the loot focus that other MMOs have. Explain to me how the market is not directly representing true loot being in this game.

Never mind, don't. The game has changed in my opinion. Changed in nothing resembling a good way. And yes, the last 6 or 7 issues HAVE focused on PVP/loot/raids, or things relating to them in a very large degree. I am glad for Dual blades, and this willpower set. Cusomization of powers is nice. With a 4 month lag time, some new arcs would've been nicer, if done with new villain groups.

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have you even paid attention to the last couple of issues?
The loot which you hate is so light that it can be ignored and you miss nothing. The new war zone is basically a new zone with new arcs that can be done at any time after 35. Faultline is not 40+ but it is still a new zone with new arcs and new PVE content. Very little has been done to pvp in the last few issues.

You seem to want to complain just to complain, and not even complain about valid factual things.

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Awesome. Sow where are the NEW zones, again?

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don't forget faultline and the scanner missions.
They are new zones, just with a old name. They are adding new content in all the time, and now we will be getting orobourus and all new story arcs and more content.

There has been a lot of new stuff added in just the 9 some months that I have been here. If you haven't seen it its because you want to be disapointed and want to be angry about it.

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Hm. Anyone know if COH-only accts have COV access yet? The post said "check it now and see", and I checked... and I see nada. =/

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I'll have a more detailed post about the short term goodies in a few.

To clarify here:

* Active accounts who don't have CoH or CoV should be hooked up within 24 hours.

* The Prestige Grant and the Debt Wipe will be done after Issue 11 launches. We will announce the date well ahead of time so you can bulk up your SG roster and have fun gathering some debt

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quick question on the bonus 20k prestige. Will it work like a signing bonus thing or a one time boost so that if players get kicked or quit after the 20k boost will we loose that prestige or still have it?

will the wiped out debt go towards the debt badge or just be cleaned out. Either way its awesome.

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Akuma,

There is a group of players coming down from Sac, I am guessing if you coordinated and cooperated on gas money and schedules you could probably find a ride.

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That could happen but it depends on work schedule. If its really going to be on friday and at 7 I probably wont be able to go at all, I can't really take time off of work and I would be able to leave home at 5:30ish at best case scenario which leaves me an hour and a half to get from where I live to milpitas which I doubt will ever happen with friday rush traffic.

oh well. I was really looking forward to it, I may still be able to work it out but I don't know, doesn't look good.

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A couple of quick questions...

One, is Dave and Busters in San Jose, or San Fran? Second, can you confirm that date soon, as we want plenty of timeto make flight reservations at a discount rate

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milpitas I think, at some giant mall type structure.

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I was looking forward to a Dec. 8th date

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me too. I work on friday and dave and busters is about 2 some hours away with traffic, maybe 3 considering its friday. I may not be able to make it then. Kind of sucks a lot.

You know what I would love to see and what would really help out smaller bases and larger bases alike? Get rid of hallways. That one extra space sticking out wastes a lot of space in our small base. For an 8x8 base it means that you can fit in a 3x3 grid of 2x2 rooms. Personally I would love to see doorways or archways as opposed to the 1 space hallways and allow players to put in a 1 space hallway for free if they choose to seperate rooms or whatever.
I think it would optimize space and allow for better base designs.

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if i'm correct the lgtf will trigger invasions even though the daily thing is over

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Yeah, but that doesn't change the fact that the event ended abruptly. A post to the boards that the event will be over in a couple of hours is not great communication.

Of course, if the event was no fun, no one would care. =)

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actually there was a blurb about the invasions ending on the updater for more than a day before the last day of the event.

The devs did a pretty good job of letting people know it was coming to an end before it actually came to an end.